Weapons And Their Availability To New Players

[Tsukinoki]

Recently I decided to start a completely new account to step through the starting planets with 2 friends who had never played WF before and found a few issues that I think need addressing. The biggest on in my opinion is the lack of weapon choices new players have till they finish Earth, and Earth is a difficulty wall, what with having Eviscerators and Hellions on it, where the basic weapons just dont cut it.

And unless the new players get taxi'd beyond it (where it suddenly becomes much more doable because Saturn is easier to complete than Earth is) it will probably kill new players quite a bit and drive them away from the game.

And one of the biggest causes of this is the lack of decent weapons they can get by Earth.

Looking at some of the basic MR0 and 1 weapons here is the list of available guns they have by Earth;

-MK1-Braton

-Braton

-Strun (if they somehow get up 25k credits(Thanks to EvilKam for bringing up that they stealth lowered the price from 75K to 25 K, much more manageable for new players))

-Lex

-Sicarus

-Lato

-Aklato

That's a rather short list, and besides the Strun none of them do too well against the Grineer you have to fight on Earth, especially with the mods new players will likely have managed to get.

What I am suggesting is something be done to increase the availability of MR0-1 weapons to new players by changing their BPs to mats you can find on Earth and Venus so that they have more options available to them.

And it could be simple changes, such as making the Seer require Morphics instead of Orokin Cells, it drops from Vor and if new players get its BP they might want to farm it. So why not allow them to be able to make it then and there? Maybe its a bit too powerful for that level of play through so this is just an idea I'm fielding to see what others think of it.

Or changing the nano spores needed on the Burston to something that you can get pre-earth. Same with changing the Bronco and Vasto's neurodes into something that can be more easily gotten.

Doing that would provide new weapons for new players to get and try out, and it would make the early planets more manageable for them as well as increase their playing time.

I also dont see a reason to choose a Bow and Sniper to make available so that new players are able to experiment a bit more with the weapon types available in the game.

EDIT:

Nieplujaca-Lama has a good idea:

I must agree. We really need some better gear that new players can easily acquire.

Maybe after completing every node on Mercury new player could choose 1 of 3 blueprints (melee, secondary and primary weapon) of course crafting materials would be pretty cheap and crafting time should be max 6 hours...

I would just like to add that if they did this it would be a good way to add a tutorial into the game for how to craft weapons:

Let them choose the BP from a small list, then give them the resources needed to craft it and the plat needed to rush it. After that go through a tutorial where they click on the Foundry and build the weapon, explaining resource drops and all that, and how to rush the weapon.

After that they have a shiny new weapon to use and are more likely to become invested in the game and more likely to pay money into it and stick around.

EDIT EDIT:

This is to bring up an idea that was discussed on the second page and could go a short ways to making it easier to get some of the weapons for new players AND allow them to put the weapons into mastery ranks that make more sense:

And I do really agree that they need to further stratify the weapons resource requirements.

MR0-1 should be pre-Earth mats for the most part.

MR2-3 should be Earth and Mars, maybe Saturn.

MR4-5 should be Uranus Neptune...and etcetera

(NOTE: These are just examples and not to be taken literally)

Further, why not have MR0 weapons be dirt cheap and credit purchasable by new players? Afterall, it makes sense that Lotus (or whoever supplies us with weapons) would have a small stockpile of the cheap and readily available weapons like that. And it would allow new players to purchase and use a wider variety of weapons on Venus and Earth and get invested even faster.

Afterall, many F2P games draw you in by wowing you with what seems to be a wide variety of choice and then later hitting you with the wait times and bottle necks. DE kinda has it backwards in that regard with far too many of the beginner and low end weapons being locked behind Earth, which right now is a difficulty wall that is far harder than the planets immediately following it.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Tsukinoki

[baldy117]

all bosses drop most of the time a oro cell

[tveeggad]

Might aswell point out that there's quite few options you have when it comes to melee weapons. You have Lex as secondary, and Strun as primary to buy straight off with credits, but there's no simple melee weapon that is acquired with ease. I bet melee 2.0 is going to fix longswords in general, but new players should get a more varied feel when it comes to melee weapons from the absolute start. Skana is actually an alright weapon, but I'm not talking damage here. Different attack patterns and features such as actual range, slam attack radius, heavier/quicker feel etc. Since melee is going to be quite a big deal soon™ it would be more than productive to give new folks some alternatives in the area.

 

EDIT: I made typos. Can't have typos.

Edited February 12, 2014 by ConcretePie

[Tsukinoki]

@baldy117

When I was running through with the 2 new players we fought Vor a total of 7 times. We got a grand total of 0 orokin cells from him. If they have the Seer drop from Vor they should either:

A) Have it require the much more common Morphics drop from him

B) Have him drop Orokin Cells more often.

@ConcretePie

I chose to mainly focus on the guns in my post, but you do bring up a good point about also needing a wider variety of melee weapons to choose from.

Also the strun is an option IF the new players spend the time grinding up to 75K credits, which isn't the easiest thing to do for new players.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Tsukinoki

[Targus100]

Personally have never know Vor to drop Orokin cells? Someone confirm this please? Figured the only bosses that dropped were the ones on planets with orokin cells as a retriveable resource.

[Calayne]

I heartily agree. Unless some drastic changes are made to Earth, the players will be unable to proceed to later missions.

 

More importantly, the MK-1 is a good beginner weapon... All the way up to Venus, where it proves unable to catch up to the rigors of combat, thanks to shields being weak against a damage type almost completely absent in the MK-1.

 

Perhaps a starting load-out should be made available a-la Psychedelic Snake's.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/176616-new-players-need-loadouts/#entry2061581

 

This has many benefits, primary one being the element of choice. Perhaps some people like close quarters combat, and would prefer a shotgun. Some prefer ranged combat, and a Latron would do well. Some may prefer straddling the lines in between, and a Braton does well. Not to mention, at the start, you'll be able to get a feel of a few melee weapons before committing to any.

 

If such a load-out is not possible, I suggest MR0 weapons be accessible sooner: Lower the credit costs, and shift the required materials to Mercury and Venus, as proposed by OP. This will allow them to use the MK-1 a while, and still give them a sense of progression, as making weapons need time to build, to say nothing of farming the materials.

 

I think 30-50k credits total is a pretty steep start, as it is, but fairly challenging enough.

[HillsAndTheSea]

Personally have never know Vor to drop Orokin cells? Someone confirm this please? Figured the only bosses that dropped were the ones on planets with orokin cells as a retriveable resource.

 

pretty sure all bosses can drop orokin cells, but its much more likely to get them from a boss who's planet has them as a resource

[Chrome]

That's how f2p games work usually.  Give you some decent choices to mess around with, and if you like the game, you give em $20 or so and keep on truckin :)

 

I can see where you and your friends are coming from though.  I put down money at the beginning cause I had to unload a full clip into something just to kill it.

[Kipp-vas-Xerinae]

We definitely need better new player expierence, weapons are a good start to make it happen.

DE really should add more MR 0-1 wepons that are good and you can build them using common materials from Mercury/Venus.

 

In my opinnion better new player expierience = more happy players and more potential profit.

 

 

[Calayne]

I'm of the opinion that the weapons pool has grown so incredibly large to the point that you can offer these starter weapons and still encourage people to go on and on and on. In fact, I think this is a better way to encourage them to play on and on and on.

 

Here's a suggestion:

 

Someone threw in the idea that the whole of Mercury should be a tutorial. I absolutely agree. In fact, I think that right before you fight Vor, Lotus says 

 

"Hey, wait a sec, Tenno. That's some pretty sh!tty looking weapons you got there. Here, some weapons that'll show Vor who's the daddy."

 

And she hands you a choice of weapons you can fool around with. Like. A. Boss.

 

And after you kill Vor, Lotus congratulates you, and hands you a pack of mods, ala the Mod Pack from the Market.

 

In it, contains Hornet's Strike, Serration, Vitality and some other basic mods that are ESSENTIAL to not fail miserably in Warframe.

 

How about that? I personally prefer this over getting screwed in Venus. 

[Tsukinoki]

@Calayne

I agree that the MK1-Braton is good through Mercury, but for a smoother transition from Mercury to Venus I think it might be better to start with the Braton and then have the option to buy the MK1-Braton with its heavy focus on slashing damage. I would also bring up the MK1-Bratons damage by 2 points to equal the Braton so its a side grade.

But I do agree that the credit costs for the buyable MR0 and 1 weapons needs to be lowered a bit, but its really the crafting recipees that needs to be fixed and made possible without needing a Taxi to skip over Earth.

EDIT:

Having Lotus toss new players a selection of weapons and mods would be a way to do it as well, and it would actually work quite well along with my idea.

The main point here is just finding a way to increase what weapons new players have a chance of playing around with.

Weapons are the main focus of the game, and if they dont have many weapons to choose from this game really falls flat. In that regard making more weapons available to new players will only help and wont really have any draw backs.

@Chrome

They dont want to put in money into this game because of how limited the options are currently and how they are being slapped hard by E-Prime. DE hasn't really given new players much choice if they aren't willing to fork out cash first, and I think that they could make more money by requiring less cash up front. That would mean that the new players get invested in the game more and are more likely to stick around and pay more money into the game.

@Nieplujaca-Lama

I would love for them to add new MR0-1 weapons (as well as change mr requirements overall but thats a different topic) but for now I think its best if they do the simplest and smallest change which is just to make more weapons craftable by the time you finish Venus.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Tsukinoki

[Kipp-vas-Xerinae]

@Nieplujaca-Lama

I would love for them to add new MR0-1 weapons (as well as change mr requirements overall but thats a different topic) but for now I think its best if they do the simplest and smallest change which is just to make more weapons craftable by the time you finish Venus.

 

I must agree. We really need some better gear that new players can easily acquire.

Maybe after completing every node on Mercury new player could choose 1 of 3 blueprints (melee, secondary and primary weapon) of course crafting materials would be pretty cheap and crafting time should be max 6 hours...

[Calayne]

@Calayne

I agree that the MK1-Braton is good through Mercury, but for a smoother transition from Mercury to Venus I think it might be better to start with the Braton and then have the option to buy the MK1-Braton with its heavy focus on slashing damage. I would also bring up the MK1-Bratons damage by 2 points to equal the Braton so its a side grade.

But I do agree that the credit costs for the buyable MR0 and 1 weapons needs to be lowered a bit, but its really the crafting recipees that needs to be fixed and made possible without needing a Taxi to skip over Earth.

EDIT:

Having Lotus toss new players a selection of weapons and mods would be a way to do it as well, and it would actually work quite well along with my idea.

The main point here is just finding a way to increase what weapons new players have a chance of playing around with.

Weapons are the main focus of the game, and if they dont have many weapons to choose from this game really falls flat. In that regard making more weapons available to new players will only help and wont really have any draw backs.

@Chrome

They dont want to put in money into this game because of how limited the options are currently and how they are being slapped hard by E-Prime. DE hasn't really given new players much choice if they aren't willing to fork out cash first, and I think that they could make more money by requiring less cash up front. That would mean that the new players get invested in the game more and are more likely to stick around and pay more money into the game.

@Nieplujaca-Lama

I would love for them to add new MR0-1 weapons (as well as change mr requirements overall but thats a different topic) but for now I think its best if they do the simplest and smallest change which is just to make more weapons craftable by the time you finish Venus.

 

A straight-up upgrade to the Braton seems like a good idea, and I agree that the MK-1 needs to be upgraded as well, for it to be worth using. Against the infested, it seems like a viable choice, but against everything else, it really falls short. Very disappointing to use against the Corpus, worse still against the Jackal.

 

And I agree with your comment regarding spending cash. For myself, I personally came here to see what it's like, determined never to spend a dollar. After about 50-70 hours, I thought, hey, this is really good. I should get a Founder's, to support the game and to buy warframe and weapon slots. And so I did. And when my brother came in, I bought him a Founder's too, because it is an awesome game. And after that, I pumped a hundred or so total into both our accounts. 

 

You're right in that the people who stay longer will tend to pay up. It simply is that good, even in Beta.

[Tsukinoki]

@Nieplujaca-Lama

They could even turn it into a tutorial:

Let the player choose a BP for beating Vor, then give them the resources and credits, and maybe even the plat to rush it, and then walk them through the process of using the BP and the foundry, where to check on what resources drop in a planet and all that.

In the end the player gets a new weapon and they also get an interactive tutorial on making weapons and an explanation of resource drops and all that.

I had to explain to my friends after a few mission what the resource canisters were and to make sure to grab them. They had started ignoring them because they didn't know if they needed them or if there was a limit on total resources they could hold or anything else.

I also added your idea to the OP because this is just a general topic trying to find the best ways to get new players weapons and keep them invested in the game.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Tsukinoki

[Kipp-vas-Xerinae]

@Nieplujaca-Lama

(...)

That's a really good solution, we definitely need more tutorials such us how to fuse mods/use the foundry etc. I know that the DE added some things into the codex, but i would love to see more interactive tutorial.

[Calayne]

Big, big plus to that suggestion of Tsukinoki's. They should implement it. For GREAT JUSTICE. 

 

An interactive mod tutorial should be done earlier, though. Perhaps after the first few missions or something. Certainly would alleviate the confusion new players face.

[Tsukinoki]

@Calayne

Having more tutorials is definitely a must, but just trying to focus on the weapons here.

But I do agree that they should give you a mod tutorial right after the initial tutorial, seeing as how it gives out a guaranteed redirection mod. Maybe even have R0 redirection be free (similar to R0 of your frames first ability) so that they can just immediately equip it.

[Shanicus]

@Nieplujaca-Lama

They could even turn it into a tutorial:

Let the player choose a BP for beating Vor, then give them the resources and credits, and maybe even the plat to rush it, and then walk them through the process of using the BP and the foundry, where to check on what resources drop in a planet and all that.

In the end the player gets a new weapon and they also get an interactive tutorial on making weapons and an explanation of resource drops and all that.

I had to explain to my friends after a few mission what the resource canisters were and to make sure to grab them. They had started ignoring them because they didn't know if they needed them or if there was a limit on total resources they could hold or anything else.

I also added your idea to the OP because this is just a general topic trying to find the best ways to get new players weapons and keep them invested in the game.

Maye something like a choice between a Strun BP, Vulkar BP, Kraken BP or Amphis BP after beating Vor (he is a Grineer boss...) - all 4 of those weapons are skewed towards anti-Corpus, so the new players would also come out of the BP with some gear that can actually work well on Venus. Obvious changes so that they only need mats and credits similar to the Cronus, that way they can do the tutorial straight up and not have to faff about farming stuff on Venus/Earth.

I'm right behind making Mastery 0-1 weaponry easier to make and cheaper - I remember back when I first started I really wanted to make the Kraken, which required me getting up to Mars just so I could swap out my Lato. The fact that it took 30k+ to make each lowbie weapon was also a bit of a dent in my desire for them, since at that level I was earning 1-2k per mission, all of which I was spending on mods. Making Mastery 0-1 weapons cost things like Ferrite, Circuits, Polymer Bundle and Morphics instead of Neurodes, Salvage and Plastids is a fantastic idea.

(and as for mods, maybe just make Vor have a 100% chance to drop Serration/Hornet Strike - considering Newbie players won't see Serration until Saturn/Wave 20 of Appollodormus and Hornet Strike in the rare Venus infestation... yeah, probably need to make them available earlier so these guns can actually work around Earth)

[Tsukinoki]

@Shanicus

Those weapons would work well. Give them a chance at the high impact damage weapons, and the Amphis is a another good option, and then let them have a decent time going through Venus. They could even turn that into a tutorial where they talk about the different factions having different weaknesses and such.

And for serration they could make it so that the first time you get to 5 minutes and complete it in a Survival mission you get a guaranteed serration/hornet strike while Vor drops the other one.

5 minutes in Apollodorus isn't too taxing for new players, 20 minutes though is far too hard for new players to attempt.

[Tsukinoki]

So, does anyone else have any ideas for weapons that could be given out upon completing Mercury so that players have an easier time through Venus?

Shanicus had the great idea for Strun BP, Vulkar BP, Kraken BP or Amphis BP to be given out, and I'm just wondering if there are other weapons that should be offered for that tutorial. Maybe include the Cernos to allow new players to see what the bows are like?

I just think it would be best if they would have a choice of one weapon from each of the major weapon types.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Tsukinoki

[azmyth1]

I agree with the idea of teaching players how to use the foundry by giving them enough materials to build a second primary weapon.  They could pick from a list: Strun, Latron, or Burston perhaps.  Just pick 3 low tier guns and let players get some variety.  You could even implement this as a cutscene after they finish Mercury.  Like: Ok, you've finished the first area, here's another gun to get you going."  I find that new players get bored of the starter weapons and frustrated well before they have the money and materials to get a replacement.

[MoyuTheTrinity]

Idk the Lex is pretty good it might aswell be my life partner from how much I have used it since update  5 when I joined

I do understand everything is garbage and the recent ninja nerfs to all the starter guns other then the Lex and Strun has made them unusable outside of mercury and thats a travasty :(

[Tsukinoki]

@MoyuTheMedic

And while the Lex is a decent weapon, its definitely not for everyone.

Not everyone enjoys using a slower sniper pistol, they may instead prefer something like the Sicarus to use and play around with. And that's the real point: give new players something to become invested in this game with. Since the majority of focus in this game is on the guns we should give new players the ability to easily try out and craft at least one weapon from every major weapon class.

That way a new player will be able to try a shotgun easily (75K is a bit steep for new players), or try a bow, or a LMG or a rifle like the Latron, or even a machine pistol. Make those weapons dirt cheap and fast to make and I think that new players will stick around a lot more because they suddenly have a lot more options.

They can go and say "I like using snipers...hey I can build one right away!" and start having fun using snipers, or they can go "I want to use machine pistols and a burst rifle" and they can make it.

They dont have to be the best of weapons, but giving them variety and easy access to weapons that will at least do something on Earth is very important for keeping players invested in this game and not leaving.

[EvilKam]

Well, I was helping a new player just the other night, and I noticed a stealth nerf to the market COSTS!

 

The Strun now only costs 25K!  NEW PLAYERS CAN AFFORD IT FINALLY!  It's like... I don't know, maybe someone at DE changed a number to help these poor souls!

 

I was astonished, because the 75K is the reason that I NEVER even CONSIDERED buying the Strun.  "My first shogun" was at the 380-ish hour mark where I bought the Sobek because I had those kinds of credits to pour into a gun I was certain I'd hate.

 

I looked at the marketplace, and wondered if I had lost my head, 'cause I was sure it sold for 75K.

 

But it almost makes sense.  25K.  Reachable, but only barely, mostly impact damage to obliterate Corpus, the first test is killing Corpus... it comes dangerously close to being good game design, which is something I had begun to fear DE was... not... really skilled at.  I loved the changes implemented in U12 though, so that gave them some extra credibility.

 

So yes, Let's mention that the Strun should kill corpus with mad wonder.

 

Tsukinoki, thank you for your post, it is nice to know that I'm not the only one who wishes to champion the new player's cause.  The sting of starting a new account in this game is still fresh enough in my mind...  I give away unranked serrations.  A couple days ago, I threw in a hornet strike and a shred, because I didn't need them, and that new guy does.

 

I think my next Serration might come with an Aura.  Not my precious energy siphon, physique maybe, because I have one of those that I can certainly live without.  Tell me a new player doesn't need mod points on their frame.

Edited February 12, 2014 by EvilKam

[Tsukinoki]

@EvilKam
Thanks for the heads up that they reduced the price, will make a mention of that in the OP.
When I was playing with the new players I didn't look too closely at some of the weapon costs but I will definitely check it out.

So that makes the strun much easier to get, now its just trying to open up other weapon types for new players to have fun with.