Azamagon's Warframe Rebalancing - Ember

[Azamagon]

This is the fourth thread from my new series of Warframe rebalancing threads. This time, I will take a jab at Ember. I have already done rebalancing for each Warframe (wether it is up to date or still in my head :P), most of it written down in here: https://forums.warfr...second-edition/

 

However, as huge and thorough threads like that often gets ignored, I thought of posting each one individually so they (hopefully) get seen. Ember has had quite a few changes, some for the worse, some for the better, so let's try and fix her up completely! Here are my ideas:

 

Stats:

I think the stats are great, no need to change anything really.

 

Overall theme:

Firebased medium/close-ranged DoTer/Nuker. My vision (and I guess, DE's too) is a damageoriented Warframe that inflicts damage (mostly over time) up close and personal. Sadly this doesn't really work unless you can tank or CC a bit, which is why most people hated the removal of Overheat, me included... Having a closerange DoT/Nuker mage"tank" kind of Warframe is also a quite unique role, so I've tried to suggest things that keep/make her like that!

 

Abilities:

The emphasis on using DoTs in an AoE and (mostly) in a closeranged fashion requires some tankiness and/or CC, so both more CC and tankiness is added to her. Overheat is thus indeed brought back at the "cost" of Fire Blast. However, Fire Blast still sorta remains in her kit, but within FIREBALL (at least sort of)! Overall, I've given more CC, more AoE, more survivability and more scaling abilities. Let's see if you like the ideas!

 

- Fireball - (Merged, more or less, with Fire Blast!)

To me, this ability has always been rather lackluster, even after its upgrades. Most abilities need to be AoE (wether direct or indirect) and/or have utility on them, otherwise they will be useless, due to how well weapons scale. Thus, Fireball is IMMENSLY boosted! It has, in a way, pretty much been merged with Fire Blast. Let's have a look at my ideas for it:

* Now castable while moving, without stopping your movement (no brief "halt"). Maybe castable without interrupting your reload? Already added! :)
* Upon impact, it explodes in an AoE, instantly dealing 140/200/260/320 fire damage, igniting all targets with a guaranteed Heat proc (that means, dealing another 350% of the initial fire damage over 6 seconds!) as well as knocking down all the targets caught in the 3/4/5/6 meter explosion!

* Upon its impact, it also leaves a lingering patch of fire on the ground (this is where it is "merged" with Fire Blast). Any enemy that stays anywhere inside this patch of fire is dealt damage over time (Like, 10/20/30/40 Fire damage per second). These lingering flames lasts for about 10 seconds or so. It has the same area radius as the initial explosion

* The lingering fire patch can ignite enemies, dealing further damage and potentially stunning them! The procchance though, I dunno.

* Fireball should obviously not be able to damage Ember herself anymore >_>

Power Strength - Increases damage of both impact and lingering flames (New for lingering flames!)
Power Range - Increases AoE radius (both initial exposion and lingering flames) (New!)
Power Duration - Increases duration for the lingering flames (New!)

 

Recastable mid-duration?

Yes, with no limit to how many enemies can be affected at once + no limit to how many lingering flamepatches can be created! (The damage of the lingering flames DO stack with one another!)

 

- Accelerant -

The essence of the ability is kept, but now behaves differently:

* Upon cast, Ember releases a BIG and very quickly expanding globe of flames (similar to the Fire Leader's attack, just much faster) which deals 120/200/280/360 Blast damage, ragdolls away and debuffs all enemies caught by the massive flames. Note: The damage is done AFTER the debuff is applied (thus, total damage is actually higher, read the numbers below)

* The debuff put on the enemies is a weakness to fire (similar to now). However, it ALSO gives a weakness to Gas/Radiation/Blast damage, but just half the bonus of the Fire-weakness.

* Due to this massive damagetype flexibility-boost, the fireweakness-debuff could potentially be lowered to just a 25/50/75/100% bonus (down from 50/75/100/150% bonus). I think that's a good compromise. Also, due to the debuff being applied before the damage is done, the actual damage done of the ability itself is 135/250/385/540.

Power Strength - Increased explosion damage and debuff potency (New for damage!)
Power Range - Increased explosion radius (Same as now)
Power Duration - Increased debuff duration (Same as now)

 

Recastable mid-duration?

Yes, with no limit to how many enemies can be affected at once!

 

- Overheat / Emblaze - (Whatever name could be fitting considering its additions and changes)

Overheat more or less brought back, with some additions and changes:

* Grants 30/40/50/60% damagereduction, but this no longer scales with Power Strength!

* Causes an AoE DoT around Ember, dealing 30/60/90/120 Fire damage per second in a 2 meter radius around Ember

* Ember is immune to any statusprocs for the duration, but can still be affected by hard CC (such as staggers, stuns and knockdowns, including knockdowns from Blast-procs).

* Wherever Ember moves while Overheat is active, she leaves behind small, but powerful, patches of fire on the ground. These deal 20/30/40/50 fire damage per second and lingers for 5 seconds. This duration even exceeds the duration of Overheat itself. The damage of the patches don't stack (so, running around on the same spot will not make a superpowerful patch of fire :P), but they DO stack with the lingering fire left behing by Fireball!

* Both the Ember-centered AoE DoT and the lingering fire patches can ignite enemies, dealing further damage and potentially stunning them! The procchance though, I dunno.

(Note: If she jumps, the flames will be created in the air, but they will be affected by gravity and fall downwards)

Power Strength - Increases DoT damage (Same as Overheat)
Power Range - Increases AoE radius (Same as Overheat, I think)
Power Duration - Increases buff duration and lingering fire patch durations (New for lingering fire patches!)

 

Recastable mid-duration?

Yes, refreshing the buff on Ember

 

- World on Fire -

The essence is kept the same, but with some overall changes to it:

* Each fiery eruption deals its damage in a bigger AoE (of say, 3 meters?) so it can really wreak havoc!

* Any enemy caught in an eruption is staggered

* While World on Fire is active, Ember could also get a runspeed buff! Say, 5/10/15/20% faster movement speed! This is to emphasize the mobility of the ability itself, and also to provide more utility to the skill.

Power Strength - Increases damage and runspeed (New for runspeed!)
Power Range - Increases AoE radius for both targetting purposes and for each explosion (New for each explosion)
Power Duration - Increases duration (Same as now)

 

Recastable mid-duration?

Yes, refreshing the "buff" on Ember

 

Some notes about synergy:

* Fireball allows Ember to CC units from afar, for whatever purposes (and/or to create a patch of fire on the ground for various area denial purposes). The knockdown should be considered especially useful for when wanting to close the distance to enemies, so she can use all her other abilities, which all are more close-range focused!

* Accelerant boosts the damage of ALL her abilities, including the initial Blast from Accelerant itself!

* Overheat with its damage reduction and status immunity allows Ember to stay in close range / close the distance towards enemies, allowing her to use her other skills in the midst of battle more safely. Leaving patches of fire wherever she travels also gives her some minor area denial behind her, to protect her when she moves around from encounter to encounter.

* World on Fire is probably Ember's most damaging kit, and its added movespeed buff allows Ember to utilize its mobile damagepower better. This movementspeed is also great for Overheat (for leaving more firepatches behind + for the closerange DoT) and Accelerant (to be able to use it quicker in the right/better/optimized positions).

 

So, what could quickly be said about the scalability? While all her abilities provide flat numbers of damage in some way, there are things on each that let them be useful on ALL levels of gameplay:

Fireball - Its aoe knockdown will always be useful. The chance to ignite (and thus potentially stun) enemies with the lingering flames left behind from its explosion can also be handy!

Accelerant - The ragdoll is useful and the weakness-debuff will also allow for great scalability

Overheat - The damagereduction and statusproc immunity will allow for great scalable survivability. The chance to ignite (and thus potentially stun) enemies with the lingering flames she now leaves behind when moving during Overheat, can also be handy!

World on Fire - The constant aoe-staggering and its mobility buff will allow for CC and indirect survivability, which is always nice!

 

Thoughts and opinions about these ideas? :)

 

All my Warframe rebalancing threads:

1)

Loki

2) Excalibur

3) Frost

4) Ember

5) Saryn

6) Ash

7) Nekros

8) Valkyr

Edited May 17, 2014 by Azamagon

[Archistopheles]

No no no. A "fire" debuff that increases Gas damage? That's rediculous.

 

 

 

 

In my opinion

[Azamagon]

No no no. A "fire" debuff that increases Gas damage? That's rediculous.

 

 

 

 

In my opinion

The Gas is warm :P (Why would it otherwise be so useful on Infested?)

 

And that is all from my suggestions you disliked? Or you dislike all of it?

Edited February 16, 2014 by Azamagon

[Skepsis]

Nope, Like the direction Ember is going right now. Only thing that needs tweaking for Ember is little bit of armor, and Firestorm/Fareball rework.

 

RIP Overheat.

[LukeAura]

First I will say I really enjoy Fireblast as opposed to WoF, it's probably one of my favourite radial-caster centered-nukes simply because it sets things on fire after casting which just feels so right since enemies actually flail and react to the damage. Probably the best thing 'right' with the ability. 

Ember is meant to be a DoT-Mage/CQC hybrid. Like the offensive version of the more defensive and tanky Saryn. More focused on dealing damage and being a mage, and less on avoiding damage or enemies and buffing herself. Should be using fire as a trapping and debilitating effect to lock down foes before they attacker instead of as they attack her. While you've definitely helped her CQC power, you've kind of forgotten the DoT portion of her. 

Fireball, increasing its AoE capabilities is a exactly what it needs. CC+range+actual AoE is great for what she needs to close in on enemies. I'd adjust it like this though; Chance of ignition scales with range from center of explosion. A direct hit will cause ragdoll and ignition over knockdown. Adding that touch of DoT without it overpowering the ability. Damage might need to be reduced accordingly. 

Overheat, I'd say reduce the damage reduction buff to 50%. She's really not meant to take damage, unfortunately. In return, I'd also say it should cause her to have increased fire AoE range(By an extra 2-3 meters) on jump and landing( each causing a damage tick to happen immediately regardless of how much time is left before the next one), as well as propelling her faster on jump. She is a phoenix/firebird/raptor, so some form of leaping/aerial play would be nice, and she is a movement based mage so, unlike Saryn, Ember should be drawing more damage from her abilities than weapons(Which means those weapon buffs have to be scrapped, except maybe the melee one). Maybe a low but significant chance of setting enemies on fire 15-20%.  

I think Accelerant needs that extra utility kick to be worthwhile by having the debuff apply to all fire based elements. For Gas you could simply say the Accelerant acts as an irritant and thickener, causing the gas to become more like a napalm in addition to its already toxic effects. That now would support abilities used by Oberon, Nova, Rhino, Banshee, Zephyr, Saryn, Ember. A much better list of allies than just Ember. And as it is an Ember ability, the damage is very well necessary. Dealing damage is kind of her thing. Keep the ragdoll and or stun of the current accelerant over the DoT though, with Overheat, Fireball and WoF working in a DoT manner Accelerant doesn't need it too. And is the least likely one to have it. 

World on Fire,  the extra stagger from the explosions is nice as well as the AoE increase. Maybe make it half blast/half fire damage just to get a little diversity in damage types? 
On start up Ember needs to pull out a guitar and do a sweet riff as her pyrotechnics start up. Absolute truth. 

[RebornsAlmark]

My two cents on your suggestions :

 

Fireball suggestion is good, but I think the current Fireball would suffice alongside your suggestion of it leaving a small patch of fire that damages enemies on it. Plus, not 100% sure since I don't use Fireball much, but doesn't Fireball already "stun" enemies by causing them to burn up and stand in place for a second?

 

While the old and your suggested Overheat would be great to have at the "cost" of Fire Blast, I doubt DE would bring it back (however, there would no reason not to since your suggested Overheat remove the power strength bonus which was the major problem with it in the first place). However, I would rather DE change Fire Blast into a more mobile-friendly skill as it currently encourages a defensive gameplay while Ember's other abilities lean towards a mobile caster Warframe. What I'd suggest for Fire Blast is to change it to the Fire Blast seen on enemy Fire Leaders and Ruk, an instant large AoE high-damage burst "fire blast" (maybe 800-1000 damage when maxed?) that also knocks enemies down while removing its current fire ring that encourages a more-defensive playstyle.

 

While I like your proposed idea for Accelerant doing damage on cast, I don't think its fire damage amplification should be nerfed (it helps extend Ember to be viable into higher level enemies). My personal two cents is to merely improve Accelerant do very low damage (like 100 max, instead of your purposed 250) and do its current effects of stunning enemies for a short while and debuffing them with a weakness to fire. The suggestion on the debuff working on combined fire elements is great too.

 

I thought Ember's WoF does a small AoE around the enemy hit, but I guess not. This buff would be great. But overall, I think WoF is decent right now and shouldn't be changed (could use a slight duration buff maybe from 10 seconds to 12?). Instead DE should focus on Ember's other abilities.

Edited March 6, 2014 by RebornsAlmark

[LukeAura]

I thought Ember's WoF does a small AoE around the enemy hit, but I guess not. This buff would be great. But like you, I think WoF is decent right now (could use a slight duration buff maybe from 10 seconds to 12?)

It does. But it's small enough to essentially say it doesn't.

The same problem with Fireball.

It's a 3 meter diameter at best from what I can tell.

Essentially the inside area of Fireblast or worse.

Edited March 6, 2014 by LukeAura

[Azamagon]

Answers underlined and bolded:

First I will say I really enjoy Fireblast as opposed to WoF, it's probably one of my favourite radial-caster centered-nukes simply because it sets things on fire after casting which just feels so right since enemies actually flail and react to the damage. Probably the best thing 'right' with the ability. 

Interesting. I thought Fireblast to be the least fitting to her overall fighting style, needing to run close to targets and staying mobile while Fireblast is an ability with a static emphasis. Also, its highly restricted damaging area (only the wall) makes it kinda meh imo.

Nontheless, I can see the benefits of area denial skills, which is why I sort of merged the skill into Fireball (it leaves a fiery patch behind). That'd keep the Fire Blast (although weaker of course), but in a far more mobile form!

Ember is meant to be a DoT-Mage/CQC hybrid. Like the offensive version of the more defensive and tanky Saryn. More focused on dealing damage and being a mage, and less on avoiding damage or enemies and buffing herself. Should be using fire as a trapping and debilitating effect to lock down foes before they attacker instead of as they attack her. While you've definitely helped her CQC power, you've kind of forgotten the DoT portion of her. 

I agreed on that style, but I don't see how I forgot the DoTs really.

1) Fireball - Leaves a patch of fire, which deals a DoT on enemies remaining inside

2) Overheat - Deals DoT to all surrounding enemies

3) WoF - Deals massive DoTs

Only Accelerant has no DoT-effect, which I think probably would be unnecessary too.

But, I guess you mean DoT by igniting them, and not by the abilities' own location-based DoTs?

Fireball, increasing its AoE capabilities is a exactly what it needs. CC+range+actual AoE is great for what she needs to close in on enemies. I'd adjust it like this though; Chance of ignition scales with range from center of explosion. A direct hit will cause ragdoll and ignition over knockdown. Adding that touch of DoT without it overpowering the ability. Damage might need to be reduced accordingly.

Setting targets on Fire (on top of the fiery patch and the initial explosion damage) would be fitting yeah. But only caused by the explosion, not the firepatch though. And yeah, that would probably require some toning down of the damage, I agreed. I think I will add this to the ability (but not reliant on chance though, I'd rather have abilities be as reliable as possible).

Overheat, I'd say reduce the damage reduction buff to 50%. She's really not meant to take damage, unfortunately. In return, I'd also say it should cause her to have increased fire AoE range(By an extra 2-3 meters) on jump and landing( each causing a damage tick to happen immediately regardless of how much time is left before the next one), as well as propelling her faster on jump. She is a phoenix/firebird/raptor, so some form of leaping/aerial play would be nice, and she is a movement based mage so, unlike Saryn, Ember should be drawing more damage from her abilities than weapons(Which means those weapon buffs have to be scrapped, except maybe the melee one). Maybe a low but significant chance of setting enemies on fire 15-20%.  

That's certainly an interesting idea with the extra DoTs on jumps/landings! Only fear I have is that players will bunnyhop all the time with it though...

I dunno if I'd like to scrap the weaponbuffs though. Yeah, she is a caster, but damaging abilities don't scale well unless they rely on weapons or enemy levels. Thus, having those weaponbuffs allow her to scale a bit better. *shrug* I dunno though...

I think Accelerant needs that extra utility kick to be worthwhile by having the debuff apply to all fire based elements. For Gas you could simply say the Accelerant acts as an irritant and thickener, causing the gas to become more like a napalm in addition to its already toxic effects. That now would support abilities used by Oberon, Nova, Rhino, Banshee, Zephyr, Saryn, Ember. A much better list of allies than just Ember. And as it is an Ember ability, the damage is very well necessary. Dealing damage is kind of her thing. Keep the ragdoll and or stun of the current accelerant over the DoT though, with Overheat, Fireball and WoF working in a DoT manner Accelerant doesn't need it too. And is the least likely one to have it. 

Glad you like the flexibility-buff!

I didn't add a DoT to it though, just initial minor direct damage, due to its blastlike effect.

World on Fire,  the extra stagger from the explosions is nice as well as the AoE increase. Maybe make it half blast/half fire damage just to get a little diversity in damage types? 
On start up Ember needs to pull out a guitar and do a sweet riff as her pyrotechnics start up. Absolute truth. 

Yeah, it needs that utility. 50/50 on blast and fire could work, sure. Why not :)

And lol @ the last part :D

 

 

My two cents on your suggestions :

 

Fireball suggestion is good, but I think the current Fireball would suffice alongside your suggestion of it leaving a small patch of fire that damages enemies on it. Plus, not 100% sure since I don't use Fireball much, but doesn't Fireball already "stun" enemies by causing them to burn up and stand in place for a second?

Well, Knockdown has a far longerlasting effect than the minor fiery panic-stun.

 

While the old and your suggested Overheat would be great to have at the "cost" of Fire Blast, I doubt DE would bring it back (however, there would no reason not to since your suggested Overheat remove the power strength bonus which was the major problem with it in the first place). However, I would rather DE change Fire Blast into a more mobile-friendly skill as it currently encourages a defensive gameplay while Ember's other abilities lean towards a mobile caster Warframe. What I'd suggest for Fire Blast is to change it to the Fire Blast seen on enemy Fire Leaders and Ruk, an instant large AoE high-damage burst "fire blast" (maybe 800-1000 damage when maxed?) that also knocks enemies down while removing its current fire ring that encourages a more-defensive playstyle.

Exactly, the overly scaling defensive effect on Overheat was the only problem. Making it static allows for its comeback, no problem!

Fire Blast doesn't really need to stay though, it got merged (more or less) with Fireball, which indirectly made it more mobilefriendly too! :D

The big fire blast effect which the Fire Leaders and Ruk uses, that's how I'd imagine how Accelerant would look like actually (which is why i would like it to ragdoll-throws enemies a short distance when it hits them). I'll add that visual detail in the initial post :)

 

While I like your proposed idea for Accelerant doing damage on cast, I don't think its fire damage amplification should be nerfed (it helps extend Ember to be viable into higher level enemies). My personal two cents is to merely improve Accelerant do very low damage (like 100 max, instead of your purposed 250) and do its current effects of stunning enemies for a short while and debuffing them with a weakness to fire. The suggestion on the debuff working on combined fire elements is great too.

While its nerf is unfortunate, I think that nerf would be necessary due to its massive flexibility buff (working to boost the fiery part of Radiation, Gas and Blast elements). But lowering its initial damage could be done anyway.

 

I thought Ember's WoF does a small AoE around the enemy hit, but I guess not. This buff would be great. But overall, I think WoF is decent right now and shouldn't be changed (could use a slight duration buff maybe from 10 seconds to 12?). Instead DE should focus on Ember's other abilities.

I haven't noticed it doing any AoE actually. If so, it's really tiny. It's in the least need of attention, yeah, but this is meant to be a thorough rebalancing, no need not to fix it as well! :)

Thanks for the replies guys! Much appreciated!