[Flexibility] Bring All Frames To Nova Tier Without Buffs

[notionphil]

I'd rather see this function used as toggle mind-control on/off so that you can turn it off when the duration is around 5 seconds left and just re-cast it, rather than having to wait the 5 seconds before you run off on your business... 

 

I think the pet turning on its master at the end of duration is a time-honored tradition of those who dare to enslave. I'm OK w that (and nyx is my main).

 

What I'm not OK with is my pet being instakilled bc it's glowing. Or as volt_c says, other Nyx's trolling exterms/invasions by not allowing the last enemy to die.

 

Hmmm....parsimonious solution generator seems to be down at the moment...

 

Ah...here we go.

 

Enemy faction permanently becomes neutral when mind-controlled...IE, it's not counted in enemy totals.

Edited March 5, 2014 by notionphil

[Volt_Cruelerz]

I think the pet turning on its master at the end of duration is a time-honored tradition of those who dare to enslave. I'm OK w that (and nyx is my main).

 

What I'm not OK with is my pet being instakilled bc it's glowing. Or as volt_c says, other Nyx's trolling exterms/invasions by not allowing the last enemy to die.

 

Hmmm....parsimonious solution generator seems to be down at the moment...

 

Ah...here we go.

 

Enemy faction permanently becomes neutral when mind-controlled...IE, it's not counted in enemy totals.

I still think you could troll with that...

[notionphil]

I still think you could troll with that...

 

you could certainly be mildly annoying, but nothing to block progress or fail missions. am I missing a trolling application?

[Volt_Cruelerz]

you could certainly be mildly annoying, but nothing to block progress or fail missions. am I missing a trolling application?

Min-duration build on defense, leading to more enemies than known.  Between waves, everyone leaves the pod to collect resources because the game tells you the wave is over, but now your three bombards show up and there's no one around.

 

Anyways, a thought on Energy Vampire...  Going with my above idea of making the effect transfer, just make it so that every time the enemy that is afflicted by EV dies, it gives energy to everyone nearby and the effect jumps to another target.  Kill more things, get more energy.  It should probably wait about half a second before afflicting a new enemy, otherwise AoE would be even worse than it is.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Volt_Cruelerz

[LukeAura]

I was thinking for Mag's Shield Polarize it'd be interesting if it acted like a small sonic boom, 7-8 meter radius, incredibly low damage, knockdown in a circle, around healed allies to make it more useful in situations other than Corpus. 
And for Rhino's Roar I'd at least like to know if it effects all of power strength or just power damage so Roar boosts could help more frames. And make it cheaper, it seems like an awful lot of energy to do something very basic we already can do beyond reasonable measure. 
 

 

Anyways, a thought on Energy Vampire...  Going with my above idea of making the effect transfer, just make it so that every time the enemy that is afflicted by EV dies, it gives energy to everyone nearby and the effect jumps to another target.  Kill more things, get more energy.  It should probably wait about half a second before afflicting a new enemy, otherwise AoE would be even worse than it is.

 

I'd really like to see how the animation for that would play out. An electro/gaseous swirl that forms from the downed corpse and then shoots to the next perhaps? 
 

[VoidPunch]

This is how the devs need to be thinking. Not cramming numbers but minor tweaks that actually make a skill better. +1

[Cwierz]

One thing that might seem a bit extreme, but I have toyed with would be ultimates like miasma or reckoning removing armor of hit targets permanently and completely.

 

I'd like to hear your expanded thoughts on your suggestions too. I didn't include my rationale on the OP out of brevity's sake, but I can include them here if anyone is interested in some theorycraft.

 

The discussion about power flexibility is useful IMO bc DE is asking for generic power suggestions. I haven't submitted any yet bc the existing powers are so imbalanced, it's tough to know which end is your target.

Ill leave them in the quote below.

 

That makes it fairly limited for the team. The speed difference between players would basically mean that rushers (where I see the most potential for this) simply wouldn't be together. Everywhere else it is unpractical.

If it were to be like that it would need more. Maybe a combination of both. It could make ash a valuable asset to a defense mission if you can pop a smokescreen at a choke point.

Maybe also recasting while active?

 

Couple more ideas-

Shuriken procs a blast proc

Mostly because guns are just better at doing damage. Why use a gun? Add extra effects to make it flexible

Teleport is made free-aiming with a capped range, and cooldown enabled.

This is so needed for ash I could write an entire essay over him. At the moment we stand, if you want a damage frame there are many others that do this better, if you want a stealth frame loki/banshee with shade does it better. This gives him an actual niche, and not a half in half out niche that goes into two categories. This gives him a unique way of approaching combat, much in the same way loki with decoy can.

"ash" clones do the killing during bladestorm(?)

If he is stuck in an animation he lacks the ability to shoot, move, defend, and many other key things in the game.

 

As for some other things to add to the list-

Shock(volt) does signifigantly more damage when passing through electric shield

Increasing skill synergy, not really making it more flexible (I also support having volt shield stay with volt, and be placed.)

Overload removes the buffs from speed (acting under the assumption it hasn't changed since I have last seen it) in exchange for greatly increasing damage.

Presuming overload still holds you stationary, speed is extremely counter productive to this with its long animation. If it removes it to add damage, you are increasing flexibility by not making volts worry about if they are wasting energy casting speed.

 

Recasting Mind Control(Nyx) makes your minion target the second enemy.

Psychic daggers procs radiation

On this frame psychic daggers does very little to support its own kit, and is a pretty terrible ability. There are situations when you don't want to/can't cast chaos, and mind control wont cut it, this is where psychic daggers comes in 

absorb now deals damage in 360 degrees.

As far as I know it can only deal damage to enemies in your line of sight. If it is dealt in 360 degrees, along with its stun it posses you don't have to worry about being downed as soon as the animation ends.

 

Warcry(Valkyr) offers Rate of Fire boost for all weapons

Only a boost to melee speed makes it very limited outside of hysteria. This makes it useable in more situations, however I am unsure as to how the armor buffs are effecting this ability now.

Paralysis is now 360 degrees and does knockback based on shield depleted

Same as absorb. 

Hysteria now has base values on the upper end of the melee spectrum, but any higher values from your currently equiped melee weapon will transfer over.

This makes it so that the ability isn't a waste as your original melee would be better at dealing damage and you feel gimped using it.

 

Slash Dash(excal) knocks down enemies

Radial Blind buffs melee weapon after usage leaving a visual effect on it

Makes this ability feel less out of place. Does very little to the kit as a whole and this was about it for ways to change it I could personally think of. Exca really needs re-works to remain competitive with the other frames.

Radial Javelin -> a new power

This ability looks derpy, is clunky, and generally bad. There isn't really many ways to salvage it either without straight up numerical buffs, considering that as a nuke this suffers from the same problems of bladestorm. Even if the animation time was reduced, you are casting on a limited number of targets, the javelins can miss(big one, because the other disadvantages multiply this problem), it has a low range, and locks you in an animation.

 

Silence(Banshee) now can silence alarms(?)

Very situational ability. Solution? Make it less situational. What is a common situation that is really annoying, and still fits her theme? Alarms. Silence can now silence alarms. Boom.

 

Smite(Oberon) does forcefield damage(ragdolling)

Suffers from soul punch syndrome, except without what makes it semi-useful on nekros. Nekros needs last hits on enemies, and soul punch can allow for that to happen, but this is generally lacks reasoning for usage. This applies to fire ball as well, but I haven't kept up with changes on it.

Hallowed Ground debuffs enemies on it, buffs tenno on it

This ability didn't even kill the guys on venus and mercury. If it debuffs enemies on it (I have slowing in mind) it allows for them to have to stay on the carpet longer, so it can actually do what it is supposed to do. Buffing tenno on it would make it have reasoning to cast even with a vauban around, who completely ruins this skill.

 

Snowglobe(Frost) passively regens health

It should do this anyways on top of being healed by cold damage. Same reasoning applies. If this acts just like an extra X health for the cyropod, you are not defending from it, you are preventing it from being hit. This is supposed to be something you defend from.

Icewave creates movement barriers for enemies

Avalanche makes this power worthless. Two casts of this cannot top the damage of one cast of avalanche, so it needs "more" to increase usage potential.

Freeze procs freeze in an aoe around detonation point

Free aiming projectile that is clunky to aim, coupled with the most random AI movements I have seen in any game? Yeah, this needs to happen

 

Accelerant(Ember) is now a buff to the team rather than debuff to enemies

Retracted

Fire Blast-> Overheat

World on fire encourages mobility and getting in the enemies face. Fire blast encourages holding down a position. Counter intuitive. Overheat allows for ember to get in enemies faces. Simple switch for a simple problem

 

Contagion(Sayrn) affects all weapons

Melee is generally limited in effectiveness, however my opinion on this might change at melee 2.0 (I also agree it should affect her squad)

Miasma slows down afflicted enemies

A miasma of death an disease has no visual effect on afflicted enemies. More a nitpick then actual fixing :P

Molt gives a temporary buff of some form and the decoy aspect is removed(?)

Completely randumb power is randumb. Why is it even in her kit? A buff after shedding her skin or really anything would be better than molt.

 

Soul Punch(Nekros) now gives priority recasting to shadows of the dead to killed/marked enemies, marks enemies making them take more damage

To add more use for soul punch

Shadows of the Dead minions spawn X levels higher than the level they were killed at

To ensure they can adequately fight the enemies you summon them against.

 

[Iceyspy]

So, I have a few suggestions of my own regarding these warframes.

 

VOLT

 

1) Shock - make a continuous stream of lightning that constantly drains energy the longer you use it (kind of like in star wars games).This would greatly expand upon it`s damage AND utility, allowing you to stun and damage entire groups of guys at once.

2) Overload - needs to do WAY more damage and last longer.My suggestion for it is simple; Make it like Starkillers` 'Force Repulse' skill from Force Unleashed and maybe give it some knockdown.

 

NYX

 

1) Mind control - Now, there are several ways this power could be tweaked.One is to make the MC`d enemy immune to damage from your teammates gunfire/power dmg or perhaps give Nyx the ability to directly control the target`s movement from a 3rd person perspective.

2) Psychic bolts - Really, I think this skill should either be scrapped entirely or changed into some sort of deathmark thing.For instance, if you manage to land all of your daggers on an enemy, he will take increased dmg from your guns, skills, etc. or perhaps the marked enemy can take more damage from his mind-controlled allies.

 

SARYN

 

1) Venom - give us the ability to plant it anywhere we want, like a mine or something and when the time comes, detonate by shooting or pressing 1 again.Just like OP has stated, ammount of spores that you can plant should be limitless and perhaps their potency can increase the more time they spend not being detonated.

 

2) Molt - make it purely duration based if you`re gonna keep it, since it gets torn down in seconds after being cast.As it has been stated many times before, also give it the ability to remove all debuffs and perhaps heal Saryn up when casting it.

 

3) Contagion - instead of it being purely melee focused, make it a team buff that affects ALL of her weapons and adds melee damage to them.Perhaps make it possible to automatically create an elemental combo if you use contagion with a weapon that already has an elemental mod equipped on it (Example; My Boltor has shock damage in it, so when i activate contagion, it allows me to deal corrosive damage).

 

4) Miasma - instead of it just being another room-clearing nuke, make it a sort of 'seed' you can plant in 1 spot that can expand and create this giant poison gas cloud that could do either corrosive or gas damage (or both).

[Iceyspy]

Dang it, i meant to say add POISON damage to them, not MELEE damage in my envisioning of Saryn`s contagion skill xD

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Dang it, i meant to say add POISON damage to them, not MELEE damage in my envisioning of Saryn`s contagion skill xD

Two things: there is an edit button and this thread is about QoL changes, not necessarily buffs or reworks

[cd33]

 

 

Banshee: The screaming terror now moves at the speed of sound

 

Silence & Sonar: radius now moves with banshee

 

Sound Quake: casts instantly, quake remains at the location Banshee cast it and she can move freely. Multiple Soundquakes can be cast in succession. Current stagger chance and knockdown chance will need slight reduction.

 

 

Saryn: Removing contrary goals from Saryn's code makes her into a versatile warrior, again.

 

Miasma: Stagger portion is separated from damage portion. Procs stagger once every second for 5 seconds regardless of damage dealt, unaffected by duration mods.

 

Venom: No maximum on number of spores on a target (instead of actual spore stacking, it just adds addl damage and duration when re-infected).

 

Contagion: affects entire squad, a melee symbol or other indicator informs them of the buff

 

 

 

^Not a huge fan of these ideas but everything else is not bad. Nova just needs that 2x multiplier to go away (it is stepping in on Banshee's turf). Banshee needs CC. She acts like this odd mix of caster, stealth, and support frame when I think she should just focus more on utility/ support. I was thinking he ult should be like world on fire (it moves with her) but instead of blowing people up it makes them scream in agony acting more as a stun rather than damage. This would allow her to cast Sonar and pick apart those weak spots. Silence is just bad and needs to be changed to something that reduces her threat level. not another clone ability but I was thinking like her throwing her voice and causing enemies to go where ever she cast the skill. Sonar should not be changed, but if anything reduce the multiplier because of the additional CC and it would also solve the issue of doing Over the damage needed in a since. 

[notionphil]

^Not a huge fan of these ideas but everything else is not bad. Nova just needs that 2x multiplier to go away (it is stepping in on Banshee's turf). Banshee needs CC. She acts like this odd mix of caster, stealth, and support frame when I think she should just focus more on utility/ support. I was thinking he ult should be like world on fire (it moves with her) but instead of blowing people up it makes them scream in agony acting more as a stun rather than damage. This would allow her to cast Sonar and pick apart those weak spots. Silence is just bad and needs to be changed to something that reduces her threat level. not another clone ability but I was thinking like her throwing her voice and causing enemies to go where ever she cast the skill. Sonar should not be changed, but if anything reduce the multiplier because of the additional CC and it would also solve the issue of doing Over the damage needed in a since.

Some good ideas which could be viable. However, the point of this thread is not replacing or reimagining a Frames power set, but instead removing inflexibility or limitations which prevent Frames powers functioning well (together or individually).

[Kashiki]

To respond to Nova-nerf supporters: she's the most frail Warframe in the game. She counteracts having the worst defenses with the most powerful ability. Remove it, and all that remains would be a portal-pal. I can understand that people dislike the 200% damage increase with Molecular Prime, but...

 

Second, I like almost everything on that list... except a few.

- Don't reset duration on Oberon's Hallowed Ground. The distance amount increase, I like. The duration reset... no. You would essentially have an infinite death trap after a while.

- You can move around with the Banshee quakes; that's cool. No multiple ones, though. That's just horribly overpowered.

- Nekros' Shadows gaining back health. Yeah, this one doesn't sit well with me.

 

You have some extremely interesting thoughts. I'm very impressed, but not surprised; this community tends to breed extremely intelligent players.

Edited March 10, 2014 by Kashiki

[Volt_Cruelerz]

To respond to Nova-nerf supporters: she's the most frail Warframe in the game. She counteracts having the worst defenses with the most powerful ability. Remove it, and all that remains would be a portal-pal. I can understand that people dislike the 200% damage increase with Molecular Prime, but...

AMD is exceedingly powerful.  She has a good kit, not just a fantastic ult.  I have no official stance on her overall balance, but I would like to point out that the only time she is actually anything other than agency-reducing is when playing endless defense and survival, but neither of those game types was ever intended to be balanced.

[main_antagonist]

I'd be happy to see even half of these changes implemented, very nice concepts

[notionphil]

To respond to Nova-nerf supporters: she's the most frail Warframe in the game. She counteracts having the worst defenses with the most powerful ability. Remove it, and all that remains would be a portal-pal. I can understand that people dislike the 200% damage increase with Molecular Prime, but...

 

Second, I like almost everything on that list... except a few.

- Don't reset duration on Oberon's Hallowed Ground. The distance amount increase, I like. The duration reset... no. You would essentially have an infinite death trap after a while.

- You can move around with the Banshee quakes; that's cool. No multiple ones, though. That's just horribly overpowered.

- Nekros' Shadows gaining back health. Yeah, this one doesn't sit well with me.

 

You have some extremely interesting thoughts. I'm very impressed, but not surprised; this community tends to breed extremely intelligent players.

 

Thanks for the feedback!

 

Just to clarify (and maybe I should in the OP as well) I'm not at all suggesting Nova needs a nerf. I'm suggesting we bring the other frames up to her tier by making sure they all have at least one "gosh-darn-that's-powerful" frame defining ability.

 

Why? Won't this make the game even easier? Well, not really because (anecdotally) right now, about 75% of players use either Rhino, Nova, Vauban or Trin. My goal is to increase play diversity and ensure that when the endgame content shows up; we won't have to all use Rhino Prime or Nova just to enjoy it.

 

Nova's Debatable "Glass Cannon Balance"

 

Nova's lack of survivability is a questionable balancing factor because as early as lv 30, any non trin/rhino frames can only sustain a second or two of direct fire before giving up the ghost. Is Oberon's extra 0.3 seconds of survivability worth his entire kit being near useless? I don't feel it is - especially when modding for survivability is easier than turning leaden abilities into gold.

 

You can always throw a Vigor mod on Nova. However, there's no mod to turn Overload into MPrime.

 

 

To OP or to not OP?

 

A few comments in this thread have suggested that some of these tweaks will make a particular power "too strong". I think we need to take a step back and look at overall scope - we're not just trying to make frames non-useless. We are trying to give them mission critical power like Vauban and Nova possess.

 

I'm shooting for the kind of strength where you can make the argument; "This frame is as important to your team's success as Nova, Trin, Rhino or Vauban is". Right now, you simply cannot make that argument with any frames (except maybe Frost) with the exception of rare edge cases.

[ThePresident777]

Thanks for the feedback!

 

Just to clarify (and maybe I should in the OP as well) I'm not at all suggesting Nova needs a nerf. I'm suggesting we bring the other frames up to her tier by making sure they all have at least one "gosh-darn-that's-powerful" frame defining ability.

 

Why? Won't this make the game even easier? Well, not really because (anecdotally) right now, about 75% of players use either Rhino, Nova, Vauban or Trin. My goal is to increase play diversity and ensure that when the endgame content shows up; we won't have to all use Rhino Prime or Nova just to enjoy it.

 

Nova's Debatable "Glass Cannon Balance"

 

Nova's lack of survivability is a questionable balancing factor because as early as lv 30, any non trin/rhino frames can only sustain a second or two of direct fire before giving up the ghost. Is Oberon's extra 0.3 seconds of survivability worth his entire kit being near useless? I don't feel it is - especially when modding for survivability is easier than turning leaden abilities into gold.

 

You can always throw a Vigor mod on Nova. However, there's no mod to turn Overload into MPrime.

 

 

To OP or to not OP?

 

A few comments in this thread have suggested that some of these tweaks will make a particular power "too strong". I think we need to take a step back and look at overall scope - we're not just trying to make frames non-useless. We are trying to give them mission critical power like Vauban and Nova possess.

 

I'm shooting for the kind of strength where you can make the argument; "This frame is as important to your team's success as Nova, Trin, Rhino or Vauban is". Right now, you simply cannot make that argument with any frames (except maybe Frost) with the exception of rare edge cases.

 

THIS!  +1000000000000......

 

I want to add, that the game does have higher difficulty or I should say, situations where the enemy TTK is increased and the player's TTK is decreased.  But, try finding a team to play those missions.  Most players have chosen to play mid levels, where it's easier, i.e. the player has a higher TTK and the enemy has a lower TTK.  The people have spoken.  They don't want a more difficult game.  So attempts to make the game harder across the board for everyone, instead of making more difficult missions more accessible so player's choice is enhanced, are of questionable value.

Edited March 10, 2014 by ThePresident777

[autarchist]

I'm shooting for the kind of strength where you can make the argument; "This frame is as important to your team's success as Nova, Trin, Rhino or Vauban is".

Aye, aye. Worked for a minis game that went less for balance vs. neutral and more for "everything is broken! equally!" (fun is most important) and that strategy has served them pretty well! I think that's right for this game too. Levels and enemies can be adjusted and scaled too, when all the players' choices feel awesome and powerful

[Cwierz]

THIS!  +1000000000000......

 

I want to add, that the game does have higher difficulty or I should say, situations where the enemy TTK is increased and the player's TTK is decreased.  But, try finding a team to play those missions.  Most players have chosen to play mid levels, where it's easier, i.e. the player has a higher TTK and the enemy has a lower TTK.  The people have spoken.  They don't want a more difficult game.  So attempts to make the game harder across the board for everyone, instead of making more difficult missions more accessible so player's choice is enhanced, are of questionable value.

Difficulty is not solely determined by TTK. 

As a side note, balance does not make a game suddenly harder, it just makes whatever OP/UP piece of content in line with the game itself. Nerfing, which you seem to equate to balance ignoring that buffing is also a part of balance, is not an inherently bad thing. It is something you decide upon on a situation by situation base case. However, what this also means is that people who don't typically understand all of the fine mechanisms and reasonings involved, or simply want to ignore them as long as possible, tend to adopt the view that nerfs are a bad thing, and that they ruin things.

[Ichiki-Kinshiro]

I love the ideas in this thread. Some of these suggestions would balance the game a lot better than it is now.

And by this I mean that a lot of the frames are way too limited in their use case for many abilities.

Edited March 10, 2014 by Ichiki-Kinshiro

[LordMelvin]

I love these changes. Electric Shield always felt weirdly at odds with Volt's highly mobile nature, especially with the recent changes to Overload.

 

Nekros is functional as he is, my biggest complaint about him is his cast times. Terrify is more likely to get you killed than protect you from harm since it doesn't take effect until the animation ends. A 50% reduction on cast time across the board would make me happy.

 

Desecrate needs a 100% chance to reroll loot so you don't waste all of your energy trying to consume a single corpse (maybe it could scale with power strength to lend an alternative to the range/efficiency survival spam build).

 

And a minor gripe but I'd love for Soul Punch to be cast-able on the move, much like Smite is. So many 1st powers are cast-able while moving so it's jarring to come to a full stop just to cast it.

 

 

 

For Ash I'd like to see Bladestorm reworked into a single target ability that lets you recast for free if you kill the target. So you can use it to clear a room of grunts or smack the boss in the face.

 

Teleport should be combined with Smoke Bomb so when you reach the target you cloak. As a replacement power Ash could get some sort of single use melee backstab or damage buff to solidify his role as an assassin, something that would trigger on his next melee attack for massive damage.

[notionphil]

I love these changes. Electric Shield always felt weirdly at odds with Volt's highly mobile nature, especially with the recent changes to Overload.

 

----

 

For Ash I'd like to see Bladestorm reworked into a single target ability that lets you recast for free if you kill the target. So you can use it to clear a room of grunts or smack the boss in the face.

 

Teleport should be combined with Smoke Bomb so when you reach the target you cloak. As a replacement power Ash could get some sort of single use melee backstab or damage buff to solidify his role as an assassin, something that would trigger on his next melee attack for massive damage.

 

Thanks for the feedback!

 

I will be the first to admin that I am not an expert Ash player - I must use him more to figure out exactly what simple fixes would make him Nova tier. Consensus is definitely that he needs major help.

Edited March 10, 2014 by notionphil

[ThePresident777]

Difficulty is not solely determined by TTK. 

As a side note, balance does not make a game suddenly harder, it just makes whatever OP/UP piece of content in line with the game itself. Nerfing, which you seem to equate to balance ignoring that buffing is also a part of balance, is not an inherently bad thing. It is something you decide upon on a situation by situation base case. However, what this also means is that people who don't typically understand all of the fine mechanisms and reasonings involved, or simply want to ignore them as long as possible, tend to adopt the view that nerfs are a bad thing, and that they ruin things.

 

Well, apparently, stomaching grind is what passes for difficulty in so many games these days.  We're all Angry German Kid now.  We can argue what difficulty is and we're just going to come to the conclusion that it's a terrible word to use because it's too unspecific, and for the most part, it's just another word for misery.

 

However, if you look at player feedback, much if it centers around nerfs and buffs.  And, what the players are inartfully saying there is that the TTK is not to their liking.  That's a much more concrete issue to deal with.  You can solve that with simple math and some switches.

 

Professional game developers should realize that by now.  They should also realize that splitting the baby in two only works in the bible, not with products, because customers will just move on and leave you stuck with both halves of the baby, and hate you for wasting their time.  So, nerf/buff cycles are just fruitless boondoggles, and a sign of utter lack of design.

 

Rather than engage in fruitless boondoggles, developers should get to know their customers.  They should find out what satisfies them and build games to satisfy customers.

 

That's why games such as Rocksmith 2014 are inherently superior to games like Warframe.  Rocksmith 2014 is built to satisfy.  It has a variety of songs.  You pick the ones you like and set about enjoying them.  It doesn't matter what songs everyone else is playing.  You have your satisfaction.  They have theirs.  You pay a fixed price, and for that, you get a bunch of songs.  Sure, you could argue that you get songs that you don't care for.  But that's just a supply and pricing issue.  It has nothing to do with the core of the game.

Edited March 10, 2014 by ThePresident777

[Cwierz]

it's just another word for misery.

 

Stopped reading here. I skimmed the rest.

 

How about no. I really do not think you get the intracicies of game design at all. Despite the logical arguing, I refuse to go further with somebody who doesn't understand something, and tries to generalize it into something it isn't.

 

Nerfing doesn't increase difficulty. Game balance does not center around TTK at all, saying so is dumb. Nerfs and buffs exist for a reason, and it is painfully obvious that you don't know why, or just don't care. I am willing to wager on a 20:80 split. 

 

Balance is not detrimental to the consumers sanctification. It is actually beneficial. Think about how many people are dissatisfied with nova, and how many people enjoy nova.

Now I want you to consider something, is making nova the non-goto-choice for anything and everything relating to damage because she grossly outclasses her piers really going to make nova players not enjoy the game?  Maybe it might happen in the extreme circumstance, but I highly doubt it.

Do you know what does make users quit supplying money to the developer? Gross imbalance and bad game design. 11/10 times this will kill a game from the majority of audiences, and this is a fact. 

 

There is a reason the main principles of game design are present today. Can you take a guess as to why?

Its because we discovered them making games. The techniques present today for creating successful games were taken from games that sold.

Balance happens to be a part of this, yet you try to discredit it as a consumer-base killer, when it is quite in fact the opposite.

 

I am sure you have read why balance is equally important in PvP and PvE games. Imagine if chess replaced every pawn in the game with queens for white. Now from your viewpoint, what should happen is that because a (presumably) large sect of players enjoy playing as white in this version of chess, what should happen is that black is given the same treatment, rather than white being scaled down. White being scaled down is better for the game, imagine the clusterfuck of 18 queens on the chess board at once. Do you really think anybody can call that a respectable game?

[LukeAura]

Cwierz, Pres, do you guys fight on every thread or is it just me? 
I think this is the third time I've seen you get in to these. 
Maybe you should take it elsewhere before you start derailing this thread. 

@Notion, I've never played Ash before myself but from reading threads about him it seems like his problems are mostly this;
Shuriken, single target is usually bad unless it has a side effect that becomes multi target like Mind Control. It's the most bland ability in terms of visuals. the auto tracking is necessary for comfort but takes something of the enjoyment out of the ability. I'm not sure this thread can fix it as it is. 
Smokescreen is in a nice place in terms of QoL. Not something that really needs fixed by this thread. Although I have heard nice buffs for it they go a little beyond the scope here. 
Teleport, I think one of the biggest changes to this would be just to start more of the flip before he teleports so he can make use of the stun time. But I also think it might be necessary as well as dropping any aggro on him with merely a second roughly where he can't gain it back. Nothing too redefining, but enough he can actually feel like he's getting in and assassinating someone with it. 
Bladestorm, make it faster, or put targeting controls under the user. Any one of those options would help it. It doesn't really need any CC/utility as it does keep Ash invincible for the duration but something so that it doesn't leave him wasting it more often than not in party play.