Viral Vs Grineer

[Ketec]

so its 75% vs flesh - but basically all of them has armor as well. how does it work - will it bypass armor or what'?

[Darzk]

And for Corrosive this would still be

 

1 / (1 + ((.75 ^ #procs) * Armor / 300)

 

And you can eventually reduce an enemy's armor to 0, which changes the damage multipliers to purely flesh. Which may or may not be an advantage depending on if your initial weapon is slash or puncture heavy. (would be good if the 3rd element is fire)

 

So basically it boils down to - The shots before the first ~4-6 procs deals less damage than rad, the shots after deal more. So you should ideally be proccing ~4-6 times before hitting the enemies halfway point in health. Which seems incredibly unlikely with the exception of maybe the Grakata, the Tysis, and the Boar Prime. Pretty sure everything else is gonna hit that halfway point before 4-6 shots, let alone procs.

 

Do you know the actual chance of getting a corrosive proc per proc %? Like is it equal chance for all potential procs to occur, or based on damage, or independent of each other?

 

Another thing I really like about Corrosive - it'll increase ability damage after procs, increase teammate damage after procs, and the procs are permanent - no 6 second window to kill within.

 

From my yesterdays Nuovo 1h27min survival run (with a party without any debuffs (Roar, M. Prime you know)), i quoted exactly this sentence.

Viral proc is effective if you can finish the enemy within 6 sec window. Pretty much the point where Viral still can be useful depends on the weapon itself.

 

Edit: but yes, this is not the best way for proc to work, DE need to make Viral to stay permanently at least, it already do not stacks, and 6 seconds window is nothing on high level with ridiculous % of Grineer armor resist.

 

Well, it also needs help with effectiveness based on timing. Its great if it procs right off the bat, but it effectively negates all damage done up to half of the enemies health before the proc, and is completely useless if it doesnt proc till after you've done 50% damage. It should at least cut their current health in half too, not just the total.

[LazyKnight]

Do you know the actual chance of getting a corrosive proc per proc %? Like is it equal chance for all potential procs to occur, or based on damage, or independent of each other?

From my test: I/s/p is dominate, followed by the next highest elemental. It is not an equal chance to get any of the 3, and I/s/p is determined by the highest valued of the 3 with descending order of chance given to 2nd and 3rd. It would only be an equal chance of any of the 3 on a weapon like a seer. If you have 2 elementals the highest one will be picked more often.

 

I tested a latron prime and a dread over a few hundred effects to try to get some semblance of a ratio.

Edited March 2, 2014 by LazyKnight

[Darzk]

So at best the chance of getting a corrosive proc is 4th. So what, ~15-20% times the proc chance?

 

Corrosive proc setup might only be practical with innate corrosive weapons then (tysis).

[LazyKnight]

So at best the chance of getting a corrosive proc is 4th. So what, ~15-20% times the proc chance?

 

Corrosive proc setup might only be practical with innate corrosive weapons then (tysis).

Think of it this way it is either an  'I/s/p' roll or an 'elemental' roll. I'll just show you an example of 160 effect I had with a latron prime. There seems to be a 60%* chance of 'I/s/p' roll if the elemental mods are at full strength. I just do not want to spend the time to get enough effects to be able to proclaim "it is a 60% chance." It is just dominate 'I/s/p' as in more than half can be expect to be non elemental rolls.

 

Test with Latron prime

Mods

Serration 10

Vial sense 5

point strike 5

Hammer shot 3

Infected clip 5

malignant force 3

Hellfire 5

Storm bringer 5

 

Stats of latron prime

Impact 22

puncture 180

slash 22

electric 202 

gas 540

 

Resulting status effect over the course of 160 effects.

 

impact=11

puncture=76

Slash= 8

electric = 20

Gas=45

 

 

If you want to get a lot of corrosive make sure it is the highest elemental.

Edited March 2, 2014 by LazyKnight

[Darzk]

Hrm. Still thats only 65/160 = 40% chance for elemental proc. *Grakata proc chance of 40% per bullet thats only ~16% chance for bullet. 6 procs would then take roughly in the neighborhood of ~40 bullet impacts, or about 2/5ths of a clip... I can see that being practical against high level Grineer.

 

Soma, for example, is at best only ~14% proc per bullet impact, so ~5.6% chance to proc corrosive per bullet. Youd have to hit a target what, ~110 times to average 6 procs? Everything's gotta be more than half dead with more than half a clip from a Soma into it.

[(NSW)Omgwtfl9lbbl]

 

And you can eventually reduce an enemy's armor to 0, which changes the damage multipliers to purely flesh.

 

On this note, it takes a lot of Corrosive procs to hit the point where the armor is considered "0". I counted at least 15 Corrosive procs in order to get Kril's health bar to turn from yellow to red (I say "at least" because I may have missed some of the procs since you can't see damage numbers while he is invincible unless his shield is up). I did this 3 times. This did effectively count as 0 armor or very close to 0, though, as when I was dealing the final blows my weapon was dealing full damage (equal amounts of Impact and Slash, all other damage neutral to Cloned Flesh).

 

My Latron Prime has 8/68/8 I/P/S and 204 Corrosive damage. Against a level 18 Kril, my Latron Prime deals 230 damage with no procs. With 1 proc, it deals 243; with 2 deals 254, and 3 263. If we assume that he's Alloy based, then the formula for damage dealt (assuming Arsenal numbers are accurate) while he has any Alloy armor should be

 

Damage = (68)*(1.15)*(1/(1+(.85*x/300)))+(8)*(.75)*(1/(1+(x/300)))+(8)*(1.25)*(.5)*(1/(1+(1.5*x/300)))+(204)*(1/(1+(x/300)))

 

If my Latron Prime deals 230 damage at full armor, that would suggest roughly 84 armor (yeah I know that seems low) in order to fit.

Assuming that Corrosive reduces the current armor by 25%, then we have 84*.75 = 63 armor for the next shot, and I would deal ~243.7 damage.

The next proc would give 63*.75 = 47.25, which gives ~254.4 damage.

The next proc would give 47.25*.75 = 35.4375, which gives ~263.1 damage.

 

All that seems to check out closely enough to the damage values I got in game.

 

If we assume that 84 armor is the correct starting value, then at 15 procs, we have (.75^15)*84 = ~1.12 armor, and at 16 procs, we have (.75^16)*84 = ~.84 armor. Assuming everything is accurate so far, and since most values seem to get rounded down/floored/truncated in this game, the game probably rounds this down (to 0), then "notices" that Kril's armor is not greater than 0, and thus turns his health bar red instead of yellow.

 

Or something like that! Who the hell knows. Would have to actually poke at the engine itself to know 100%, but for the time being we can just make assumptions.

[Darzk]

Some of my old testing numbers:

 

K, just double checked this.

 

It DOES proc multiple times, removing armor each time. It appears to remove somewhere around 25% of armor each time, stacking multiplicatively (2 procs = 43% armor removed, not 50%).

 

But when the health bar turns red, you're dealing 100% flesh modifiers instead of armor modifiers now, so your corrosive bonuses against Ferrite armor disappears and you're dealing less damage than pre-proc (except at VERY high levels).

 

 

Tysis modded to 61 corrosive, high proc chance.

Lvl 25 elite lancer: 32, 36, 41, 45, 48, 51, 53, 55, 56 (dead)

Commander: 92 96 98 100 102 103 105 106 107 and then red hp bar and only 61 (no more +75% modifier).

 

Edit: Confirm; 61 reduces to 32 at 270 armor. 61 reduces to 36 at 200 armor (~75% of 270). 62 reduces to 41 at 150 armor (75% of 200).

 

Also, lol, I would never have seen this if it wasnt in PHP.

 

Just saying the damage bonus to Ferrite disappears when the health bar turns red. So pairing Corrosive with Fire doesnt seem like a bad idea; fire should probably get the +25% modifier once the health bar turns red.

 

84 armor does seem low for a Grineer Boss, but then again Kril is a phase tank rather than a damage sponge so I guess his armor doesnt really matter.

[Kamal965]

I regret ever attempting to keep up with DPS crunchers.

 

Jesus.

[Darzk]

I regret ever attempting to keep up with DPS crunchers.

 

Jesus.

 

While this would be the perfect way to end this thread, I couldnt help but LOL and comment.

 

+1 good sir :)

[zaptrex]

I think all damage types (except pure damage) will be reduced by armor after all other calculations.

If status proc is not considered, viral is the best damage type against grineer.

[tdshooter]

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Viral hope this helps

[Darzk]

I think all damage types (except pure damage) will be reduced by armor after all other calculations.

If status proc is not considered, viral is the best damage type against grineer.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Viral hope this helps

 

Sigh. All that hard work and testing and math and people pop in with wrong information and a wiki link to a useless page.

[Sedant]

Radiation paired with viral are usually my chosen elements. Combined on my 4 forma Brakk they put level 100 napalms down like they were magnetized to the floor.

Edited March 3, 2014 by Sedant