Yep, Time To Have The Token Discussion Again

[timesickGallivanter]

Lotus forgive me for the wall of text, I know not what I do.

 

 

By now I'm sure you've heard mention of a token system for prime parts. If you pay attention to this forum and Reddit, you've probably heard it a dozen times in the last few weeks since they started talking about new prime items coming out. Why is this topic getting rehashed every few days or weeks? 

 

Because a lot of people are sick of RNG.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I love the RNG when it comes to pretty much every little thing it's used for in the game. I'm fine with how mod distribution RNG works simply because with all the time I spend playing I end up getting whatever shiny mods I need just by doing my own thing. I'm even fine with the prime part RNG, because as far as I'm concerned Excal Prime is all I need. But more and more all I hear about the prime parts is "screw the RNG", "the RNG makes it impossible", "I don't even bother with the Void because I can never get what I need".

 

That last one is what irks me, because these are regular players, not random people who aren't all that into the game (read: casuals). These are the people who have already figured out that grinding=content but like it, and even they have given up. I know that for some of our ultra-hardcore players a few hundred void missions is a fair price to pay, but I'd wager if we put it to a poll of the whole community those players would be in a minority. That's not to say they and their opinions don't matter, but a small minority does not a happy community make. Anyways, if something is so frustrating that it's making players give up on that content, it's time to admit there's a problem. 

 

Unfortunately, we all know that this problem is multifaceted. There's the fact that the current system dissuades players from playing the content or prevents them from enjoying it. And then here's the fact that this system isn't sustainable. The void drop tables are bloated as it is, and unless they add a huge number of gamemodes these tables will only get worse. There could be alternate places for the primes, such as these late-game badlands Steve has discussed in DC and on one of the previous streams, but these are still only vague concepts that won't be made until "sometime this year". This is a problem now, and it should be addressed now.

 

"But we have prime part trading now", you may say. While this is true, prime trading doesn't fix the drop tables, nor does it change the fact that the current system isn't sustainable. It also doesn't do anything to make grinding for prime parts more enjoyable. And this, more than anything, is what a token system would address.

 

A token system which supplements the RNG would, if nothing else, contribute a sense of progress to the prime drop system. Think about it, if you have to go grinding for materials to build an item, you feel good about every little bit of that resource you find. You can look at your inventory after the mission and say "Oh cool, I got two neurodes doing that mission. Only five more to go!". And because you can get them fairly reliably, you can at least have hope that you'll get those last five neurodes in just another 10-15 or so runs. (Obviously it shouldn't be that easy to get a prime part, nor am I suggesting it take that few runs to get one; those are just random numbers to illustrate my point.) If you have these constant little reminders that you're getting somewhere, that eventually you can actually get the thing you want, you're more likely to want to keep going for it. 

 

Just in case you missed it I'll reiterate: I think this should be supplemental to the current system, not a replacement. It's not supposed to make the process of getting primes laughably easy. It's supposed to make it less mind-numbing, frustrating, and hopeless for the people who are sick of the RNG. The supporters of a token system need solace, but I've been watching this debate unravel a number of times already. I know full well that there's a number of people who feel the hard work they've already put into getting their gear under the current system would be less meaningful if suddenly a new thing came out to make getting primes a cakewalk, and though I don't quite agree with that I don't feel they should get the shaft in this either. The system should be fixed fairly and with everyone's needs in mind, because this is something that affects most of the playerbase. 

 

 

Core components for a token system

1. "Orokin Artifacts" (OAs for short): a blue resource drop would be added to the Void. The drop mechanics for it would function the same as the drops for clantech components in the rest of the star chart.

 

2. The average number of Orokin Artifacts you can find in a given Void mission should vary based on the Tower. This will make it so that the people working their butts off in a high level void mission will be rewarded more than the ones playing T1 Exterm a thousand times in a row. An example distribution might be: T1 missions dropping an average of 2 per mission, T2 dropping 5, T3 dropping 8. 

 

3. These Orokin Artifacts would be exchanged for prime parts on a black market run by Darvo (wink give us Darvo lore wink). This could be done via a room in the clan dojos, or via a shop menu (or an actual seedy-looking black market hidden on the Phantasy Star-style space stations Steve talked about two streams ago wink wink).

 

4. These items bought on the black market would be untradable. 

 

5. The number of Orokin Artifacts necessary to purchase a part should vary based on the number of parts in the completed item, but the total price of completed weapon or frame should be equal. This means the price of a piece for a weapon in 6 parts would be less than the price for a piece of a frame in 3 parts. This is important for scaling purposes, because...

 

6. In the interest of keeping the system from being too easy, the total number of artifacts necessary to purchase all of the parts for a single completed item should be scaled such that anyone wanting to just grind easy missions would have to do a huge number of them. Example using my numbers from 2.: if the price of a complete item is 200 OAs, then someone would have to grind around 100 T1 missions to obtain it. This would mean they'd have to put forth the same level of work getting that prime item as some of us did in the Gradivus Dilemma to get the Brakk. Conversely, anyone who puts forth the effort to grind the T3 missions would be able to get their item sooner.

 

 

Additional thoughts/Possible changes

1. DE could make it so that parts for older items might require fewer OAs to purchase on the black market.

 

2. Newly-released items might not be purchasable on the black market until the next set of prime items come out, to prevent people who find themselves with a surplus of OAs from purchasing the new items as soon as they're available. And because, you know, Darvo needs time to find suppliers. Or something. LORE. WORLD BUILDING. GIMME GIMME.

 

3. Access to the black market could be gated by player's mastery rank.

 

 

 

Long-term possibilities with this system

1. When the faction system Steve described a few weeks ago is implemented, OAs could be gifted to factions to gain standing

with that faction.

 

2. OAs could be used as a mechanism for gating access to new content (example: being used in the blueprint of keys to new Orokin towers, vaults, ships, etc). 

 

3. OAs could be crafted into exclusive cosmetic items/decorations for dojos

 

4. If Steve decides to give players rooms on the Phantasy Star Universe-style space stations (furious winking), the OAs could be used to make decorations for that. Decorations like a life-sized replica of Steve that sits next to my bed and watches me while I sleep.

 

 

Assuming you've read this far, I thank you for taking the time to read yet another of these token threads. Like I said at the start I don't care one about the primes, or how they're distributed; I just want to see the community stop being angry over this. Maybe then we can get back to murdering the Grineer, and DE can get back to working on Vor's Prize, because let's face it that thing's so far from being made not even on the Soon™ list. 

 

 

 

Edited for formatting and my absent-minded profanity. 

Edited March 2, 2014 by timesickGallivanter

[Leorion]

100 missions for 1 completed item?

 

What changed?

[IIJetfireII]

Uhhh....

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/160369-what-everyone-actually-means-when-they-say-token-system/

Edited March 2, 2014 by IIRodimusprimeII

[gnat6]

I am still not sure if a token system is the best way to go about improving prime item farming but if we got one I would want it to be like this.

[Spikey844]

Interesting.....

[luanle21]

Uhhh....

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/160369-what-everyone-actually-means-when-they-say-token-system/

thank you now everyone just ignore this topic and look at Nugget for a better understanding and yes wall of text with not short version LEARN TO READ

[Egg_Chen]

There is no discussion, either DE want to please the player base (token system) or it does not (RNG apocalypse).

 

.. but yeah the Nugget thread is a good one.

[raptor_458]

I like this idea a lot. It is a well thought out concept that would implement well with the current mechanics and fit in with what little lore we have, presented in a well-written post. +1.

[Youchoob]

Platinum is a token economy, the ability to trade Prime parts and BPs has created a Ghetto token system. But rather than Orokin Artifacts, it is now called platinum. The going rate for most Prime drops is 5 plat (I'm on the oceanic server), this means even if the part your after is  being sold at 100 platinum (Highly Unlikely), then you need to complete 20 Void missions. The limitations that exist in trade also prevent the system from being abused excessively.

[timesickGallivanter]

Please post constructive comments. Say what you like about it, point out any major flaws, etc. Don't just link to a thread of someone who is by far not the first to suggest a token system. 

[VKhaun]

Tokens don't work unless the community loves the game.

 

With all the negativity around here everyone would just add up the total cost of all tokens to get everything, declare it an ABSURD grind regardless of how it compared to any other game or what the system's intent was, and tell DE to make everything easier to get.

[Ezren]

There is no discussion, either DE want to please the player base (token system) or it does not (RNG apocalypse).

 

.. but yeah the Nugget thread is a good one.

 

Don't pretend to speak for the entire community. You don't.

 

You just represent the loudest, whiny portion who are very lazy.

[timesickGallivanter]

Tokens don't work unless the community loves the game.

 

With all the negativity around here everyone would just add up the total cost of all tokens to get everything, declare it an ABSURD grind regardless of how it compared to any other game or what the system's intent was, and tell DE to make everything easier to get.

That's cynical and implausible. This entire game is a grind. Literally, everything is grinding. You grind to level items, grind to collect resources, to collect credits, to find mods. You grind a boss 20 times to get the BPs for a new frame. And for the most part the community is fine with that, because we're badass space ninjas running around in SPACE. It's grinding, but it's still fun to do. I think that, more than anything, the reason people are fed up with the void RNG is because you have no idea how much longer you have to grind to get what you need (even now that DE is telling people where prime parts actually are). Every other grindtastic system in the game has meters showing progress; resources, affinity, mastery rank, all of these have ways of showing you that you're progressing. Grinding bosses for frames doesn't, but it takes so little time that it generally doesn't matter. 

 

I'm sure there will be people who will never be happy with prime distribution, and that's fine. No one can please everyone all the time, but that isn't a reason to stop trying.

[VKhaun]

This entire game is a grind. Literally, everything is grinding. You grind to level items, grind to collect resources, to collect credits, to find mods. You grind a boss 20 times to get the BPs for a new frame. And for the most part the community is fine with that...

 

No they're not. That's why they whine about RNG all over the place. Trading RNG grind whines for Token grind whines is not a solution, it's just a replacement without any positive reinforcement from when players get lucky. It's a stone wall of 'go play X missions' that people see, NOPE, turn around, and leave.

 

What we need is smarter RNG. Sheldon knows we need smarter RNG, and he's working on smarter RNG.

 

I'm unhappy with some things that DE has done, and I've gone back and forth on the token system issue a few times now, but in the end I really agree with the direction he's going.

[fatpig84]

Tokens don't work unless the community loves the game.

 

With all the negativity around here everyone would just add up the total cost of all tokens to get everything, declare it an ABSURD grind regardless of how it compared to any other game or what the system's intent was, and tell DE to make everything easier to get.

 

 

Look no further.

The Oxium issue.

 

Anyone who partners with a nova or has a nova can get 600 oxium in 5 hours at Kappa, or even less.

Even if the tokens were a small value like say 20 tokens that drop at 1 per void T3 game, people would yell that 20 games of T3 void is too much :p

Edited March 3, 2014 by fatpig84