Grustrag Three: Infuriating Penalties 2.0

[Boxyninja]

The point isn't how difficult they are - I'm not saying they're a hard fight, assuming you're prepared for a boss-caliber fight.

 

The point is risk vs reward.  Winning gets you a chance of a part of the Brakk; you have to win numerous times to get the Brakk.  Losing gets you a guaranteed penalty that requires rare resources to remove.  Unless you can be sure of victory, there's no reason to take that risk.

then dont fight them and leave.

This thread is just a bunch of people complaining. yes they should tier the cost to get it removed by rank but other than that its fine how it is.

[kaboomonme]

Corpus drop Neurodes these days?

 

Wha?

 

Not that I know of. Neurodes is a Grineer drop, and a freaking rare one at that.

 

And the three things I hate about the G3:

 

1). Grineer were already more annoying than the Corpus, yet they occupy nearly 75% of the Solar Map. Nobody I know enjoys fighting the Grineer. Did we need to make them MORE annoying than they already were?

 

2). The BDSM Brand you get on your shoulder. "Property of the Grineer"? Seriously? That sounds like a BDSM thing. No Thanks, I am SO not into BDSM.

 

3). The freaking rare materials. It wouldn't be so bad if it were, say, Circuits, Polymer Bundles, and 5-10 Oxium to remove it.

 

And a little addition, kinda-sorta a 4th: They added those stupid lights and door barriers to make Grineer levels MORE FREAKING ANNOYING.

To be honest, I wanted to keep the Bolt and the Emblem on my Grineer-themed Nova because of how good they looked. If only I knew that clicking "Claim" meant removing the bolt immediately... I wouldn't have bothered otherwise.

[ast00]

They killed my rank 0 Zephyr. I just put a forma on, used aura to get a maxed Redirection on, they came, no abilities, no hp. And I had a rank 4 Boltor Prime from forma. I killed one, but then died.

IT'S JUST TOO RANDOM.

If I had these things ranked up without a forma, I COULD have gotten a Brakk for myself. But no, RNG says F*** you!

[Mirriky]

Just going to put my voice in because I see a lot of insults here.

I am 100% for the OP. A lot of people here are quite arrogant and rude for reasons they state themselves, (and the OP deals with them pretty well)

 

But this is a genuine issue. As someone who has all the frames available and 90% of them at max level, it's not too hard to farm up resources, I can even dump the frame I got bolted until I can release them. But a lot of players don't have that freedom.

 

As for for the Harvester, I intentionally lost to him just so I could play this mission and I loved it. I win, I get a part, I lose, I play a fun mission. No, there isn't much risk of fear that way. But to lose and be forced to farm for another hour when I was going to use resources to build a weapon/frame on a bolt. I't not fun. And if I had to spend a Orokin Cell on it too you can bet your &#! I would have made a post like this a long time ago.

 

Please come up with a more creative penalty that won't make players want to alt+f4 instead of taking the penalty (like harvester).

Demanding they farm for 2 hours because they lost to RNG is just a $&*^ move.

 

Also weren't they originally called a "Death Squad?" I was expecting something like escaping my execution, not getting released with a smack over the ear but otherwise untouched.

 

Edit: I mean they kill their own kind for fucks sake, why did they let us live?

Edited March 18, 2014 by cam-o-flage20

[marelooke]

Just going to put my voice in because I see a lot of insults here.

I am 100% for the OP. A lot of people here are quite arrogant and rude for reasons they state themselves, (and the OP deals with them pretty well)

 

But this is a genuine issue. As someone who has all the frames available and 90% of them at max level, it's not too hard to farm up resources, I can even dump the frame I got bolted until I can release them. But a lot of players don't have that freedom.

 

As for for the Harvester, I intentionally lost to him just so I could play this mission and I loved it. I win, I get a part, I lose, I play a fun mission. No, there isn't much risk of fear that way. But to lose and be forced to farm for another hour when I was going to use resources to build a weapon/frame on a bolt. I't not fun. And if I had to spend a Orokin Cell on it too you can bet your &#! I would have made a post like this a long time ago.

 

Please come up with a more creative penalty that won't make players want to alt+f4 instead of taking the penalty (like harvester).

Demanding they farm for 2 hours because they lost to RNG is just a $&*^ move.

 

Also weren't they originally called a "Death Squad?" I was expecting something like escaping my execution, not getting released with a smack over the ear but otherwise untouched.

 

Edit: I mean they kill their own kind for fucks sake, why did they let us live?

 

Exactly. I don't care about how "hard" they are. It's that the penalty is just too harsh for me to even want to bother with them. As long as this isn't fixed I'm staying away from siding with Corpus in invasions and I will be abandoning any PUGger unlucky enough to get targeted by the G3 while I'm in the group.

Edited March 18, 2014 by marelooke

[LunaticMethod]

I might be the minority here, but I actually felt a sense of dread when I realized I was being invaded for the first time by the G3.  I usually play alone, and I was on a nightmare mission, so I was in no shape to put up a fight.  Especially when I saw that I went into bleed out by myself, I was actually somewhat afraid of what might happen to my warframe.

 

While the debuff is highly inconvenient and puts a stop to any smooth grineer missions for the time being, it really has a neat Dark Souls vibe to it, and I spent the next hours trying to get oxium so I could remove the bolt.  Of course, this is only for people who are infatuated with adversity, rather than the loot race, but it was fun.  It made me feel like I wanted to get better, and beat them, next time, for being humbled in such a way.

[(PSN)ariaandkia]

I might be the minority here, but I actually felt a sense of dread when I realized I was being invaded for the first time by the G3.  I usually play alone, and I was on a nightmare mission, so I was in no shape to put up a fight.  Especially when I saw that I went into bleed out by myself, I was actually somewhat afraid of what might happen to my warframe.

 

While the debuff is highly inconvenient and puts a stop to any smooth grineer missions for the time being, it really has a neat Dark Souls vibe to it, and I spent the next hours trying to get oxium so I could remove the bolt.  Of course, this is only for people who are infatuated with adversity, rather than the loot race, but it was fun.  It made me feel like I wanted to get better, and beat them, next time, for being humbled in such a way.

 

I do agree with you a bit.

 

As I've said before, aside from the fact that it affects bystanders (and I've made quite a few posts about how we could fix that, but people seem to not like those ideas), I think the penalty is perfectly fine.  Well, that and the fact that you can alt+F4 your way out.  I think a way to fix that would be to make it (I already suggested this) so that if they spawned for you, it automatically sets a marker so that if they are not defeated and the party does not escape, you get penalized, but not the party.  And if you ditched the party, the penalty gets increased by having you pay for the entire party's removal twofold while the party gets a free pass.

 

In other words, force the player to stay.

[arch111]

I had 2 things happen to me today.

First I finally got to meet them. I have had the mark since they came out, and started to wonder if I ever would see them at all.

 

Now that I have, I must say that it´s quite well put together, the Lotus, the buildup untill they get there. But just like with the Leaders I find that the methods they use are annoying. They drain power, teleport all over the place, and debuff powers like the stalker.

Then I don´t know if it was them or the broken lights, but I got white-screen a few times like a flash bang.

Whenever something like that happens in a game I usually just stop playing since it means you die.

 

They beat me pretty easy, I was leveling up weapons Solo, and my primary was a sniper rifle.

 

Now I got the shackle on me and have to go farm oxium to get rid of it. Ok I can do that. But it makes me wonder how much I will want to play invasions again since I allways play for the Corpus. Especially since from what I understand, the drops from the G3 are very rare.

 

In my estimation the risk of loosing to them and having to pay 20 oxium is much higher then beating them and getting loot. Since they can show up when leveling stuff, or solo, and since RNG makes it low reward.

 

The feature is not bad, just a bit steep in cost to remove the shackle.

[Phroteus]

I don't know about you, but I personally have no issues with the punishment of some of these spawns.

 

Now, there are times when the roaming bosses do a cheap kill on me:

Attacking me when the life support air is running out when I have low ranked weapons (so that the battle takes over 5 minutes and it counts as their kill when the life drain hits-to be fair, my own fault for fighting them instead of extracting)

Attacking me during defense mission so that they get 10+ seconds to kill me. (Harvester didn't last long when it tried that since I was used to the stalker by then, stalker once somehow killed the cryopod (instead of me) and made the entire team fail before the timer finished counting, other times, stalker got me)

 

However, I think that the punishments are fine.  If they are too strong for you to fight, you are either: solo (don't get me wrong, those bosses are soloable) or in an area above your level or both.  

 

Now, if you are a newbie and in an area above your level, it is totally your own fault.  Most of those invasions are not on the first planet so you've had time to learn game mechanics.

 

If you are a veteran, you have no reason to have an issue (why are you going into a mission with no decent weaponry unless you are doing something like deception?) (as someone pointed out, for veterans, those bosses are easy.  I still don't get what people were saying about the Stalker being too difficult.  I'm going to assume that the stalker got debuffed after the apparent "buff" pc players were complaining about before 12.0.5 came out. That or they just didn't know how to fight him)

 

Now, we PS4 players don't have these grustrag three, but from what I have been hearing, they don't sound all that difficult as long as warframe isn't your first action third person shooter game.  

 

Now, there is the issue of your party abandoning you (though in some cases, fighting solo can be easier than fighting in a group), but that is more of players being jerks than bad design.

 

There is also the issue of most players being very aggressive and not taking cover outside of skills like snow globe.  You'll notice that the enemy takes cover quite often which makes them harder to kill by weaponry.  Newbies should be using cover a lot more than veterans because they are still at a point where they are learning and the natural response SHOULD be "I'm getting shot at, let me find something to stop that."   Veterans of warframe, on the other hand, are more likely to have weaned themselves off that reaction and be more: "RUSH THE ENEMY, KILL IT BEFORE IT CAN KILL ME!"   While that isn't necessarily a bad reaction, it generally doesn't work very well unless you have far superior firepower.

 

When I fight the stalker, I'm not going to do either-he can't be fought like most enemies.   I don't rush him because that would be suicide, but I don't find cover either (at least not against the stalker himself) because that would be suicide.  Instead, dodge, block, etc. while fighting.  Some slides, some parkour, even some wall attacks.   Mobility.

 

Against the Harvester, I go for heavy firepower, stuns (some work oddly well against harvester), and positioning.

 

Point is: even with a lower rank frame and weaponry, as long as I have at least one decent weapon and am in an appropriate level area, the other two bosses are definitely doable.  I firmly believe that the grustrag three are the same.  Just change your tactics a little.   As for the resource costs, the only hard one to get is neural sensors and even then.

 

 

Now, what I see as a problem is being punished for someone else's miniboss.   If you are getting punished because someone else dragged a miniboss into your mission, that is wrong.  I haven't had that problem, but I'm so used to fighting them at this point that I can almost fight them asleep.

"RUSH THE ENEMY, KILL IT BEFORE IT CAN KILL ME!" :)  I have a bad habbit of  slide/fly/tailwind into a mob, right after Ive fired a rocket ..every time I reach the mob before the rocket , and get killed by it along wiht the mob:) 

Edited June 23, 2014 by Phroteus

[Liminal]

 It's doubly insulting that, on many of my numerous other frames, I could have easily defeated these foes; this isn't a skill discrepancy, it's an equipment discrepancy caused by their random spawn mechanics.

Here lies the issue. "Challenge" in Warframe is 99% equipment based.

That's one of the core issues that should be addressed in my opinion, because it's the root of a myriad of other problems.

[Zuijin]

I would like to tell here my experience with the G3: you can make of it what would you like.

Currently I'm a level 10 mastery rank player (not a pro maybe, but I tend to build only warframe and weapons I like :S): the first time I met the G3 (or the humpty dumpties, as I like to call them now) I was mastery rank 1, with a non potatoed excal and still skana as melee weapon.

it was... on Venus I think, during an invasion mission: being a newbie at that time of course I didn't know a thing about them, other than flickering lights meant troubles incoming (escaped and extracted already once from my first stalker).

The others with me in team were... confident in their ability to defeat the G3, but what the Grustrags were, I didn't know it yet.

All I remember, is that we became specks on Shik Tal shield in less than one minute flat, unable to resurrect and with a beehive barrier all over us.

Picture if you can: an excal with MR 1 with the grustag bolt attached. On venus, with earth and jupiter still to conquer.

Wiki was my friend: after reading some of it about the G3 and the "space herpes" which is the grustrag bolt, I begun the slow process in climbing the map (strangely enough the thought of asking help or at least taxing didn't come to me at all: I'm an idiot). Crafted some weapons (latron vanilla, cronus) helped a little on earth, especially on cambria where I farmed the neurodes.

Neural sensors was (and still is) a pita to obtain: I even unlocked  mars and phobos before going to jupiter, because in my inexperience I choose the wrong path.

But in the end I finally farmed Alad V and obtained my freedom from the Bolt (oxium was grabbed along the way).

 

After all of the above, I concur that the G3 are hard as minibosses go, but even after all the hardship, I would not call them unfair. I was very unlucky and more than once someone snickered about a mr2 with the bolt attached, but it wasn't impossible, nor the trip to Jupiter un- enjoyable. Something better than space herpes would be nice for failing to defeat them (or at least make the resources needed to cure the bolt less grinding to obtain), but it's not impossible to overcome the grustrag bolt, even as a newbie.

Or maybe I'm just more stubborn than most. 

Edited June 23, 2014 by Zuijin