Give Me Your Complaints!

[Ganpot]

To make a long story short, I'm currently working on a comprehensive list of suggestions and ideas I would like to see in Warframe.  And when I say comprehensive, I mean it.  However, while writing this document, I believe it would be important to know what others think.  Towards that end, I want you guys to tell me every complaint you have against Warframe right now, no matter how minor or trivial.  Get as specific as you can, and try to explain why you dislike something if possible. 

 

Keep in mind that this thread is intended to be critical but constructive, as I will be attempting to propose solutions to every problem I can.  Obviously, many of these issues will be a matter of opinion (it's too hard vs it's too easy, etc.).  That is expected, so please respect others opinions and try not to argue too much. 

 

I'll give some broad topics to start with:

- warframe balance

- weapon balance

- mod balance

- knockdowns and CC

- resistance balance

- melee combat

- ammo economy

- repetitive missions

- repetitive maps

- stamina system

- matchmaking and host options

- RNG

- energy and health generation

- netcode

- enemy design (game mechanics wise)

- grind

- parkour

- AI

- stealth

- PvP

- art design

- music design

- trading

- hazards

- achievements

- invasions and star chart

- lore

- monetary policy (store prices, etc.)

- game difficulty

- tutorials

 

Now it's your turn.  Tell me what you hate! 

Edited March 9, 2014 by Ganpot

[Leuca]

Just going to put this out there; you've just listed a bunch of things that have either already been addressed by DE or have been mentioned by them. They have a lot on their plate, but they are very much aware of a lot of the issues with this game and they read the forums a lot more than people give them credit for.

[KorReaPeR]

lato prime. as someone who likes this game and paid to support it i would like to see the lato prime be something i would want to run in my builds, and not just because only grand masters can use it.

[Ganpot]

Just going to put this out there; you've just listed a bunch of things that have either already been addressed by DE or have been mentioned by them. They have a lot on their plate, but they are very much aware of a lot of the issues with this game and they read the forums a lot more than people give them credit for.

 

I want you guys to tell me every complaint you have against Warframe right now, no matter how minor or trivial. 

 

I am disregarding things not in the game in the present.  We can't adequately judge upcoming (or potential) content.  The topics I listed were just to get people thinking about the different sections of the game.  I wasn't saying I hated all those things.  This thread isn't about whining, it's about identifying problems in order to create a cohesive plan to fix them. 

 

EDIT:

Here, I'll give an example of something extremely specific: allowing players to change the color of their warframe abilities leads to a chaotic mess, since no one knows which buffs / de-buffs are applied to them.  If your warframe starts glowing pink... it could mean anything. 

Edited March 9, 2014 by Ganpot

[Azamagon]

Hehe, Ganpot, you are in for a treat with that task ;)

I'll add some quick ones:

 

1) Mod balance

This is horrendous. It's seriously all over the place. Some quick examples:

 

* Hornet Strike is too good with a 220% bonus, while Magnum Force is garbage with up to only 66% bonus. Its also harder to acquire, harder to level up and the penalty makes it dreadful.

* Serration has a bit better balance with a 165% max bonus. Heavy Caliber is also slightly better balanced (165% as well), yet it has higher modcost, more difficult to acquire, more difficult to rank up AND has a negative effect on it. Rather it was like max 55% to 110% bonus on Serration (5% to 10% per rank) while Heavy Caliber only had 4 ranks (making it very cheap if its base modpoint cost was the same as Serration), but gave 10% to 20% bonus per rank (max 40% to 80%). Same with Hornet Strike vs Magnum Force and Point Blank vs Vicious Spread.

Not only do we need better mod balance

* Shotgun mods are in the same boat as Serration/HC, but at least they don't have enormous rankup-costs. But, then add Blaze to the bunch... *sigh*

 

Combine that with Shotguns having THREE pure damage mods (Point Blank, Vicious Spread, Blaze), the elemental mod imbalance, the physical damage mod imbalance, crit imbalance, modcost imbalance, EVERYTHING WITH MODS ARE IMBALANCED, it's of the charts... Yeah, I literally get a headache over the imbalance of the mods!

The mods need to be equalized and streamlined across all weapons and everything!

 

2) Mod diversity

 

There is simply no real room for utilitymods. We need seperate slots for combat mods and utility mods.

Take a look at this thread. He shows it could be done: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/191800-adaptations-to-the-mod-system/

 

On top of that, the splitup of regular vs charge for melee weapons doesn't exactly lend itself for adding modding diversity either...

 

3) Dualwield vs Singlewield

 

It's inconsistent up the walls! Damage, status and crit should NEVER change between the single and dual RANGED weapons. Only rate of fire, magsize, reloadspeed, accuracy and recoil. On melee weapons though, there needs to be a better balance as well, but the damagestat can alter itself between dual and single, but just a little!

More thoroughly (although a bit out of date due to some updates, but still): https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/140121-dual-weapon-versus-single-weapon-balance/

 

4) Labtech contra Market

 

What goes to labtech and what goes to the market makes no sense. It also has a missed opportunities of the enemies wielding more varied weapons. Here are suggestions of what could be done: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/179161-labtech-enemies-weapons-and-making-sense-of-it-all/

 

5) General inconsistencies

 

So. Many. Inconsistencies. Not even a complete list! https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/173629-list-of-des-new-and-old-inconsistencies/

There's quite a lot of stuff in there.

 

6) Warframe balance

 

Just a quick note about this - All abilities on ALL Warframes need to be affected by all power alterations (range/strength/duration). Otherwise, Corrupted Warframe mods will never be truly balanced, no matter how you change the numbers on the mods.

 

...

There is so much more I could add, but I need to do some other stuff. More to be added later!

[Ganpot]

Hehe, Ganpot, you are in for a treat with that task ;)

 

Yeah, I know...  I've been working on this for weeks now, and I'm not even fully done with the warframes yet (the first section).  Thankfully, I already have a solid foundation for my proposed melee combo system implementation (another massive topic).  So the only major obstacles left are the mod re-balances (time-consuming but not particularly hard), and enemy re-designs (which will take a decent amount of effort).  Who knows; the final document might even be under 50 pages long (though I doubt it)! 

 

Just a quick note about this - All abilities on ALL Warframes need to be affected by all power alterations (range/strength/duration). Otherwise, Corrupted Warframe mods will never be truly balanced, no matter how you change the numbers on the mods.

 

I am currently worrying about this issue.  Unfortunately, I'm not sure if every ability is really compatible with every modifier.  For the moment, I've decided it is probably best to forget that mods exist at all, and just focus on re-designing powers with inherent synergy.  Once I've got them more smoothed out, I might send some PMs around to help gather feedback and promote discussion of ideas. 

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Obviously my biggest concern is power growth. It's too random and arbitrary for new and skilled players, respectively.

In the war of RPG and Shooter, RPG won, but there are cases like the above where RPG is needlessly trampling the Shooter aspects. There is an obligation of power in games that rely so heavily around numbers. It hurts play diversity.

On a different note, the power of exclusive items is also something you should address IMO.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Volt_Cruelerz

[Azamagon]

1) Yeah, I know...  I've been working on this for weeks now, and I'm not even fully done with the warframes yet (the first section).  Thankfully, I already have a solid foundation for my proposed melee combo system implementation (another massive topic).  So the only major obstacles left are the mod re-balances (time-consuming but not particularly hard), and enemy re-designs (which will take a decent amount of effort).  Who knows; the final document might even be under 50 pages long (though I doubt it)! 

 

 

2) I am currently worrying about this issue.  Unfortunately, I'm not sure if every ability is really compatible with every modifier.  For the moment, I've decided it is probably best to forget that mods exist at all, and just focus on re-designing powers with inherent synergy.  Once I've got them more smoothed out, I might send some PMs around to help gather feedback and promote discussion of ideas. 

1) All I can say is GOOD LUCK! :D

I've done massive-text threads here before and not to be a downer, but people usually neglect them (TL;DRs and stuff). Unless you are named Ganpot, notionphil or Volt_Cruelerz (and a few other famous names) you lucky, popular bastards ;)

 

When you are done though, I'll gladly take the time to read it :)

 

2) It's not THAT hard actually. Take a look at my Warframe rebalance threads for inspiration if you like (so far I've done Loki, Frost, Excalibur, Ember, Saryn, Ash and is about to have a go at Nekros). The only ability so far I've hade troubles with is Loki's Invisibility having something with Power Range on it.

Also, if you are gonna do rebalances on Warframe abilities, here's a little list of tips of what to think of (many people forget some of these points, of which a few are very important, when suggesting their ideas):

* Make them fun and versatile, while trying to keep overall balance in mind as well, of course.

* Make them have self-synergy within their own kit

* Follow the Warframe's own theme and fighting-style

* With self-synergy, fun, versatility and theme in mind, try to make each ability fill different functions in the Warframe's kit, even if they might be similar somehow in some minor way. A typical bad and sadly, common, example: People often suggest Teleport for Ash to do a single target strike, just like Bladestorm, which would make Bladestorm completely redundant when fighting a single powerful target.

* Make all abilities affected by all the power-adjusters (range/strength/duration), to give better balancing with Corrupted mods

* Try and make sure every ability has enough versatility to its effects so it helps when fighting all different kinds of targets. By that I mean to make them useful on ranged targets, melee targets and bosses all alike. For example, Radial Disarm is useless on bosses and melee targets, which imo is a very bad design due to being far too niched in its useage. Its simply not versatile enough. Versatiity in abilities is necessary, even if just giving minor benefits. This is important for user creativity and longterm fun! Redundant abilities are simply never fun!

* Try and make sure abilities have some direct useage in combat. Perfect example of what could need that kind of buff: Desecrate. Desecrate is too much of an "aftermath" ability.

 

Wether you agreed on all or just some of these guidelines, I at least wanted to show these tips. I personally would consider following those guidelines to be a nice baseline for a good and solid gamedesign.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Regarding the balancing of abilities, don't be afraid to propose multiple solutions. Proposing a simple QoL change might not be as good as a rework, but it would be better than nothing and is more agreeable.

[Yezzik]

I'd like to be able to trade the Stalker, Harvester and Grustrag Three gear. It doesn't seem right that you can't just because the items don't have "Prime" in the name, as you still acquire them in the same RNG-centric manner.

[MalusCalibur]

My main complaints with Warframe at present:

 

A) The utter reliance on artificial difficulty through stun and knockdown attacks alongside the lack of sufficient counters and recoveries - and the frankly bizarre tendency to progressively make these difficulties worse, rather than better (the most recent Grineer Commander change, for example)

[shamless Self Promotion #1: My own detailed feedback thread on the subject: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/128110-warframes-artificial-difficulty-why-it-is-a-major-problem-and-potential-solutions/?view=findpost&p=1527606 ]

 

b) The convoluted and unintuitive damage system to which no further attention has been paid after a handful of ineffectual patches, making the elemental weaknesses and resistances a chore to learn and difficult to internalise.

[shameless Self Promotion #2: My own thread detailing potential solutions: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/153484-damage-2x-simplify-streamline-standardise/?view=findpost&p=1806040 ]

 

c) The apparent disinterest in balancing Warframes and weapons: rather the tendency to ignore glaring problems and move directly on to the next release (Nova, Nekros, Valkyr, Oberon, Soma, Penta etc), as well as the overzelaous pace of said releases.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Also, Ganpot, another issue is the dependence on helmets for some stat boosts.  Personally, I'd recommend just giving each helmet a base stat boost that it comes with, but once you have a collection, you can select any stat boost with any  aesthetic you wish.

[TheThreadWeaver]

Complaint: There are other people on the internet.

 

In all seriousness though, This is a good list you're putting together. The only thing I would care to add is that I would like to see some clarification about whether DE is going for a tiered system with their weapons, or a vast ocean of sidegrades. I think it would solve a lot of arguments if we could have something definitive to point to.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Press 4 To Win meta...

[Killerdude8]

DE's Unreasonable Hatred towards Shotguns, Please make this a Big one.

Shotguns have been Nerfed so damn hard it's not even funny..

[Volt_Cruelerz]

DE's Unreasonable Hatred towards Shotguns, Please make this a Big one.

Shotguns have been Nerfed so damn hard it's not even funny..

That's more of a niche problem...

 

TTK, DPS, and Shotty are all vying for spots.  In a game like Warframe, it's hard to have predictable niches for the weapons and so some suffer.  I agree there are problems with shotties in the game.  I'm just saying that it's not an easy solution and one that I do not have.

[Strill]

Warframe Ability damage scaling:  As-is people only use warframes with crowd control, or whose damage is based on enemy damage.  Warframe ability damage needs to scale better period.

 

Redundant Warframe Abilities: Many warframes have two abilities that do the same thing.  For example, Mag's Pull/Crush are both AoE damage + CC.  Frost's Ice Wave and Avalanche are both AoE Damage. This means there is never a reason to use both at once when you could instead have a stat-boosting mod.  This is why people want warframe abilities separated - these abilities, fun as they might be, will never compare to a build based around a single min-maxed ability.

Edited March 10, 2014 by Strill

[LazyKnight]

My main complaints:

 

1) DE has been unclear if mastery ranks are supposed to be important, or if it is just a way to waste of time.

2) The mastery rank on weapons are supposed to define tiers, but it has been arbitrarily applied.

 

I would be fine if DE at least put colored boards around weapons that signified its placement within the tier hierarchy. Anything that visually tells the weapons quality, and it is done often in RPG and action games.

[NovusNiveus]

Stalker drop rates are absolutely ridiculous. I don't know if it's just me, but my encounters with the Stalker consist of having my health reduced to 5% after eating one Dread arrow, shooting my Akbolto at him for five seconds and being 'rewarded' with an Orokin Cell and a Slash Dash.

I haven't had a blueprint drop from Stalker since U9, and only once has he ever dropped a blueprint.

My luck with drops in general seems to be pretty terrible - I acquired all of the essentials (base damage, multishot etc) before Loot 2.0, and since then I haven't seen a second Serration after killing what must be thousands of Scorpions, and the same applies to any of the mods you might consider essentials - one serration, one hornet, one point blank, one focus, one flow, one continuity, one streamline.

It seems the only mod I can get to drop with any frequency in the Void now is Suppress. I want a mod that makes my gun louder, such that the Grineer soil themselves when they hear the thunderous roar of my arrival.

[Strill]

Instead of having each client calculate physics effects separately, its done by the host, and then the host sends the results over the network.  This means the bandwidth requirements for the game skyrocket over trivial crap like items falling down stairs, and result in bugs like Zephyr's tornados or Mag's pull not working unless you're the host.

Edited March 10, 2014 by Strill