If You're Gonna Nerf Frost, Might As Well Nerf Rhino (Or, An Epiphany On The State Of Warframe).

[Petersheikah]

Totaly agree. Rhino, Trinity and maybe Valkyr too are too strong, while Volt, Excalibur and Nyx are a bit terrible. That's my opinion.

Also, +1

Edited March 9, 2014 by Petersheikah

[SolidSp33d]

Uh I'm nowhere near a new player and I love my excal. I'm sorry if I offend any of the players, but Rhino is for noobs. He is easy to use and is for lazy people. though I have to admit that I use him to level up new weapons :P. Low and mid levels he's go(o)d but high levels he's just sh!t. Iron skin doesn't last long enough, how many times can you spam Rhino Stomp? Excal on the other hand with his Radial Blind can stun and blind almost 30 seconds with the right build. By that time his energy cost for that skill has already replenished. People need to learn to play the game. I rather have 3 other Excals in high level defense/ survival than 3 Rhinos.

 

So nerf Rhino? No, make the game more balanced so people don't pick Rhino 9 out of 10 times. Add new enemy leaders who cast DE-iron skin. Oh wait no, people will cry about that then...

 

I question how you mod your Rhino.

hue

[Frostmire]

Actually , Excalibur is pretty much a Nyx with extra mobility . His Radial Blind does pretty much the same job as Nyx's Chaos , except it is geared more toward Corpus and Grineer while Chaos shows it's max potential against Infested .

 

 

Totaly agree. Rhino, Trinity and maybe Valkyr too are too strong, while Volt, Excalibur and Nyx are a bit terrible. That's my opinion.

Also, +1

 

 

Until they fix the akward animation on Valkyr's ultimate , she's only quite decent to use . Nyx and Excal are just underrated 

Edited March 9, 2014 by Frostmire

[Aggh]

Conclave is unbalanced and was put into the game to shut people up who were complaining about pvp same with the trading system so we cannot compare frames in conclaves. I do agree that Rhino Prime is alot better now and we shall be seeing nothing but him but he is not op he is not as useful as other frames in end game content. I am quite fine with how frost is even if his globe doesnt survive very long in 40+ it does an excellent job of shield recovery and helping bleeding out allies. I am quite fine with Primes having a distinct advantage over their non prime version but saying so they need to improve the current Primes they have out there. I just think Rhino Prime should have same speed as non prime version but a little higher on the armor/hp. 

 

I also love excaliber and player him ALOT when going against infested he is still fun and is the overall balanced frame.

They had discussed putting PvP into the game well before beta.  Steve had expressed interest in implementing some kind of dueling system since beta began.

 

Trading is something that they had also discussed for a while and VALVE had repeatedly told DE that they need it.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Aggh

[SolidSp33d]

Actually , Excalibur is pretty much a Nyx with extra mobility . His Radial Blind does pretty much the same job as Nyx's Chaos , except it is geared more toward Corpus and Grineer while Chaos shows it's max potential against Infested .

 

So basically for both of them, they have only one really viable ability...

That doesn't sound super great to me.

[taiiat]

What "other exploited frames"? You listed the exploited ones. You aren't saying Nekros is overpowered, are you? That'd be ridiculous.

Desecrate one-ups Loot in Warframe. by it's existence, it therefore makes itself 'required' for loot centric Gamemodes and for just getting a lot of Loot.

because Loot in the game will be balanced around if Nekro is standing there waving his hand all day. Balance includes all possibilities, not just the average.

 

Bring that same Nova into a two (or even one) hour survival of Pluto and then come back to me.

that Nova is still a key part to the team due to having the majority of the Utility Effects all on one huge range power at the same time.

 

the Damage MPrime does is an issue, but the Utility Effects are a much bigger one.

 

i'm sure you'll ignore what i'm saying here and justify it by saying that you once completed a mission without Nova. which isn't the point at all.

 

 

edit:

the biggest problems, is when a power one-ups the game. when a power does that, by it's existence, it makes itself 'required'.

Edited March 9, 2014 by taiiat

[(PSN)InstaShark]

...Wait, we get Rhino Prime now?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was only joking...................

[CatScratch]

Don't mind Rhino, he's role is to be a tank, the only thing about him that bothers me is that he is too fast for a tank role.

Trinity has her ultimate broken, blessing needs to be reworked ASAP! Who fought it would be a good idea to add permanent invincibility to this game!!?

Loki seems ok, he's kit is tailored not to have damage abilities and unlike trinity does not make the whole team invulnerable forever so I don't see any problems here.

[xkillo32]

Bring that same Nova into a two (or even one) hour survival of Pluto and then come back to me.

switch that 4 into 2 and boom

[VegetableBasket]

Loki doesn't need to be nerfed because he's only good and not amazing, Rhino needs a nerf to make him the slowest in game, trinity needs a nerf because pve content can't be hard if you can never die, and nova needs to self damage with explosive moves because lol that would be great. Generally all other frames need a buff or a rework in one way or another.
 

 

You deal realize conclave balance is entirely separate from PvE, right?

Some bosses use your conclave score to scale their stats, so that's not entirely true.

Edited March 9, 2014 by VegetableBasket

[Frostmire]

So basically for both of them, they have only one really viable ability...

That doesn't sound super great to me.

It's the issue of most frames .

Edited March 9, 2014 by Frostmire

[SolidSp33d]

Don't mind Rhino, he's role is to be a tank, the only thing about him that bothers me is that he is too fast for a tank role.

Trinity has her ultimate broken, blessing needs to be reworked ASAP! Who fought it would be a good idea to add permanent invincibility to this game!!?

Loki seems ok, he's kit is tailored not to have damage abilities and unlike trinity does not make the whole team invulnerable forever so I don't see any problems here.

 

That's exactly why we are minding him. He's a super fast freaking tank. And he's doing lots of damage.

Also he's probably talking about the infinite invisibility you can have with him.

[SolidSp33d]

It's the issue of most frames .

 

indeed it is.

[SolidSp33d]

[(PSN)InstaShark]

That's exactly why we are minding him. He's a super fast freaking tank. And he's doing lots of damage.

Also he's probably talking about the infinite invisibility you can have with him.

He kinda needs that invisibility, don't you think?

[Petersheikah]

Until they fix the akward animation on Valkyr's ultimate , she's only quite decent to use . Nyx and Excal are just underrated

600 Base Armor and a skill that fully restores health. Also, a skill that adds extra armor. A basic build can turn her into a invincible warframe. I think she's really powerful and tanky, maybe a little nerf can fix it. Edited March 9, 2014 by Petersheikah

[SolidSp33d]

He kinda needs that invisibility, don't you think?

infinite invisibility? If he needs that then some of the power there needs to be pushed to his other abilities.

[Aishi]

Are you dense? Frost was essential certain modes, keeping him at that god-tier status FORCED players to keep him on the team to survive, this reinforced the meta even harder. I didn't read beyond your opening statement, whatever points you had are discredited by your complete failure to comprehend what his analogy is.

OP is just another moba scrub who throws around the term meta like it's the word of the day.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Aishi

[X3Evanescence]

Dont remind me about rhino pre-buff, that horrible rhino back then.... Absolutely worthless to play. Loki players do use all four of their abilities; he is the definition of a frame with all viable abilities, each one fulfilling specific niches. Of course most Loki users rather do it easy-mode with perma-invis and stuff, but he really is dependent on invisibility.

[LoveYourEnemy]

But I love Loki, Rhino, and Nova ("exploited frames"). These frames for one are very very useful and cover a niche in the game. Loki is the one who is best for distracting and stealth, Rhino can take so much damage and has good offensive abilities, and Nova is best for high level CC. I know everyone says Nova is OP, but she does in fact fill the void that is over level 30 obsolete-ness: she is needed for those situations, and in my opinion she is balanced out by having pretty squishy stats. Rhino is a favorite of mine because he can't get knocked over, something that in this game in particular is quite the hindrance. He is also great for leveling guns, reviving fallen team-mates in a bad situation, and so on and so on.

 

I read the last bit too, but having to rely on teamwork and making abilities by themselves weak is unfair to the solo player (I'm one of those due a particularly undesirable internet connection). That is more like forced teamwork. However I do agree on making every Warframe stand out on their own,and making them all useful and such, that is a very much needed thing in this game. But lets not go around "NERFING" per se, but rather go for balancing: Focusing on revamping the powers of lower tier frames to be useful, and revamping the abilities of the other frames to be less "press 4 to win" but keeping their abilities the same amount of usefulness (just with tweaks here and there).

 

I see your point in this post, but the last thing we need to do is nerf. The first thing we need to do for frames is help the ones suffering and bring them all into being useful and , most importantly, FUN.

[SolidSp33d]

Are you dense? Frost was essential certain modes, keeping him at that god-tier status FORCED players to keep him on the team to survive, this reinforced the meta even harder. I didn't read beyond your opening statement, whatever points you had are discredited by your complete failure to comprehend what his analogy is.

OP is just another moba scrub who throws around the term meta like it's the word of the day.

 

Dude...wtf are you talking about?

[Sixty5]

Didn't you make a thread recently about how you couldn't see how people said this game was easy?

 

Rhino is powerful, but he also has a very low skill cap. In most situations hitting any of his power buttons will solve your problem. Mods only serve to further this.

 

There is no deeper gameplay there, no combo-img of your abilities or getting timings right, no need to use mobility.

 

 

Then on the other hand there is Loki, "The Master Race" Invisibility spam on Loki might seem cool at first glance, but in all honesty, by limiting yourself like that you deviate from his true purpose as a manipulator. The only mod I run to increase my survivability on Loki is Quick thinking, and that is only because I needed something to put in the D slot. I'd take a Proki over an Invisibility spammer any day.

 

 

Frosts globe was an imbalancing factor in the game. It made him a pick for a single reason, he had one job, and that led to boring gameplay. The changes were meant to deviate him away from that playstyle, and re-balance the Globe that made defense so easy. We saw similar changes with Vauban and his Bastille, having an enemy cap, not quite as drastic, but along the same lines. in future I suspect that as DE refine things further other such abilities will be tweaked (blessing i'm looking at you)

 

 

But the real point I want to make is that all frames have a skillcap. Some higher than others. For instance, Banshee has a fairly high skillcap, since she has no escape options, no instakill choices and no truly defensive abilities. So when you first play her you find her underwhelming. Sonicboom doesn't hurt stuff, Sonar gives a nice damage buff, but the spots are hard to hit, silence does nothing and Soundquake takes forever to kill stuff.

So at this point most players get her to 30 and go back to Rhino. But what they miss is learning that bit of extra skill that lets the Frame shine. Master Sonicboom and you end up hardly ever getting hit. Frequent use of Sonar hones your aim, making headshots easier to land, meaning that in most cases you don't even need to cast it. Silence becomes a free passive mod slot, and Soundquake becomes a great tool to defend yourself when surrounded, or when your team needs a break in the combat.

 

Low skillcap frames seem powerful at first, and in cases they could do with a little toning down (rhino for instance) but by mastering a frame, you begin to see that the truly powerful builds aren't the most common ones.

 

Tl;Dr

[Roost_rd]

Emphasize teamwork, allow for combination of powers. Mag's Shield Polarize and Excalibur's Radial Javelin are a great example of a teamwork move. Do MORE like that.

 

Well 2 things...

1- I fully agree (At least save Snow Globe :C)

2- You mean Mag's Bullet Attract, right?

[SolidSp33d]

But I love Loki, Rhino, and Nova ("exploited frames"). These frames for one are very very useful and cover a niche in the game. Loki is the one who is best for distracting and stealth, Rhino can take so much damage and has good offensive abilities, and Nova is best for high level CC. I know everyone says Nova is OP, but she does in fact fill the void that is over level 30 obsolete-ness: she is needed for those situations, and in my opinion she is balanced out by having pretty squishy stats. Rhino is a favorite of mine because he can't get knocked over, something that in this game in particular is quite the hindrance. He is also great for leveling guns, reviving fallen team-mates in a bad situation, and so on and so on.

 

I read the last bit too, but having to rely on teamwork and making abilities by themselves weak is unfair to the solo player (I'm one of those due a particularly undesirable internet connection). That is more like forced teamwork. However I do agree on making every Warframe stand out on their own,and making them all useful and such, that is a very much needed thing in this game. But lets not go around "NERFING" per se, but rather go for balancing: Focusing on revamping the powers of lower tier frames to be useful, and revamping the abilities of the other frames to be less "press 4 to win" but keeping their abilities the same amount of usefulness (just with tweaks here and there).

 

I see your point in this post, but the last thing we need to do is nerf. The first thing we need to do for frames is help the ones suffering and bring them all into being useful and , most importantly, FUN.

 

Everything in your first paragraph did nothing but to prove the point OP has been making.

[(PSN)InstaShark]

Are you dense? Frost was essential certain modes, keeping him at that god-tier status FORCED players to keep him on the team to survive, this reinforced the meta even harder. I didn't read beyond your opening statement, whatever points you had are discredited by your complete failure to comprehend what his analogy is.

OP is just another moba scrub who throws around the term meta like it's the word of the day.