So Who Else Thinks You Shouldn't Be Able To Bleed With Your Energy Shield Up?

NiborDeathridge · March 9, 2014

Someone else has probably already said this before but i'm not great at navigating the forums, so meh. But really, bleeding with an energy shield up? Isn't the entire point of an energy shield to keep the bad things...you know....out? I'm not saying that there shouldn't be some negative effect to the player should they be hit with the bleed status, but when their shields are up, having them bleeding is just sloppy and lazy. IMO there should be something else that happens to you if your shield is up and you get hit with a bleed proc, like taking increased damage to your shielding for the duration of the status justified as the shield attempting to stabilize , or taking one extra heavy hit to shields in the place of the bleed status justified as your shielding system being extra drained to compensate for a particularly well placed or high velocity shot, or hell maybe you get knocked over instead of taking the status do to the kinetic impact of around that would have been able to cause a deep wound through your armor hitting your shield. Maybe i'm wrong and maybe I don't speak for the masses, but shot by a bullet, not taking HP damage from the bullet itself thanks to my shields (or maybe you do take that bullets DMG, but I don't think you do) but then bleeding from it while my shielding is still up just feels stupid to me.

Onae · March 9, 2014

I don't @(*()$ care, because even though Ive faced level 50+ enemies I have never died to it. Never. Everyone whines about this game being to easy, don't whine when something becomes a challenge.

And it's not sloppy and lazy. It's just a dot that effects flesh only.

Kashiki · March 9, 2014

Okay, just saying, I think the Bleed proc is the in-universe way of showing that one attack got through the defenses of your deflector shield. I think that the whole "not having bleed out when shields are up" argument isn't good in my opinion for the following reasons.

- A Frame with super high shield capacity is essentially safe from having their health tampered with, until their massive shields go down. This makes the game too easy, since you're safe from everything.

- If Bleed proc can only happen once your health is affected, the game becomes too difficult. Why? Because, if a Frame with low shields (Ash) gets their health hit, they can be hit with all the bleed procs in the world. If a Frame with high shields (Volt) gets their shields depleted, that means that whatever was able to do such a thing will still be out there hurting you whilst you have bleed proc on.

Thus, having Bleed proc happen at any point is good. You aren't necessarily going to die, but you should know that your high shields won't save you at every point. This mechanic was made to balance out the astounding number of high shield capacity frames that dominate the endgame. Now, you have to rethink your strategies; try the "not getting hit" or the "don't take on every enemy in the room at once" method instead of the "take my Soma and blind fire into the abyss" strategy.

In battle, anything can happen. This reflects that.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Kashiki

(PSN)Strad_37 · March 9, 2014

Completely agree OP. This makes a lot of sense.

LxLawliet · March 9, 2014

A foolproof way would be to add a cap to the bleeding proc - you can bleed out till you have 1 health left.

NiborDeathridge · March 9, 2014

- A Frame with super high shield capacity is essentially safe from having their health tampered with, until their massive shields go down. This makes the game too easy, since you're safe from everything.

- If Bleed proc can only happen once your health is affected, the game becomes too difficult. Why? Because, if a Frame with low shields (Ash) gets their health hit, they can be hit with all the bleed procs in the world. If a Frame with high shields (Volt) gets their shields depleted, that means that whatever was able to do such a thing will still be out there hurting you whilst you have bleed proc on.

This is why I suggested alternate effects if you would be hit with what would be a bleed while shielding is up. High shielding frames would still be negatively affected by being lazy/stupid and just walking through enemy fire instead of trying to dodge or use cover (though enemies in this game have hellishly accurate aim and the Devs have stated they don't want this to be played as a "cover game", also the blocking system is useless) and frames with moderate shielding would be still be susceptible to either the shield or non shield versions. As for your second point, your shielding being up or down would make no difference on how often the proc would happen.

Oh....and not -anything- can happen in battle. That's why we have game mechanics. You know, like, how no projectiles can hit you under your shield, and thus hit your body...and cause you to bleed

I don't @(*()$ care, because even though Ive faced level 50+ enemies I have never died to it. Never. Everyone whines about this game being to easy, don't whine when something becomes a challenge.

And it's not sloppy and lazy. It's just a dot that effects flesh only.

First, i'm not whining about anything, i'm trying to casually bring up a point which, might I add, has nothing to do with the difficulty of the game, but it's mechanics. Second, good for you, you never died to bleed under shields, your trophy is in the mail, but I hate to break it to you, this isn't about -you-. Third, and finally, I said it feels sloppy and lazy to -me-, and gave fair points as to why. Why do you feel opposed to this stance? Really, I'd love to hear, that's why I brought the point up, not to flail around epeen but to discuss what I feel is a valid point

NiborDeathridge · March 9, 2014

A foolproof way would be to add a cap to the bleeding proc - you can bleed out till you have 1 health left.

Well it's not just about rather or not you can die with your shields up, but that you'ld be taking bodily damage with your shields up at all. I can understand some odd damage types being able to bypass your shields, but finding yourself bleeding to regular bullets with personal energy shield around just doesn't seem right, feels more like reactive armor dampening the impact than a shielding system actually deflecting it.

MrJxt · March 10, 2014

I find it annoying when an eviscerator hits my shield once without depleting it and chunks nearly half my hp. 30+ damage bleed ticks OP.

Edited March 10, 2014 by MrJxt

MrJxt · March 10, 2014

Okay, just saying, I think the Bleed proc is the in-universe way of showing that one attack got through the defenses of your deflector shield. I think that the whole "not having bleed out when shields are up" argument isn't good in my opinion for the following reasons.

- A Frame with super high shield capacity is essentially safe from having their health tampered with, until their massive shields go down. This makes the game too easy, since you're safe from everything.

- If Bleed proc can only happen once your health is affected, the game becomes too difficult. Why? Because, if a Frame with low shields (Ash) gets their health hit, they can be hit with all the bleed procs in the world. If a Frame with high shields (Volt) gets their shields depleted, that means that whatever was able to do such a thing will still be out there hurting you whilst you have bleed proc on.

Thus, having Bleed proc happen at any point is good. You aren't necessarily going to die, but you should know that your high shields won't save you at every point. This mechanic was made to balance out the astounding number of high shield capacity frames that dominate the endgame. Now, you have to rethink your strategies; try the "not getting hit" or the "don't take on every enemy in the room at once" method instead of the "take my Soma and blind fire into the abyss" strategy.

In battle, anything can happen. This reflects that.

Have you played "endgame" survival/defence? lvl 40+ enemies shred through 1k shields like its nothing.

Pazgabear · March 10, 2014

If they shred through a 1k capacity shield, how do you think 300HP will hold against such firepower ? Bleed proc won't be the problem in this situation

I agree with the fact bleeding shouldn't put you down, almost anything can proc bleeding effect, and being down just because you couldn't find a health orb in time is such a pain in the arse. Still, i think it should proc even with a shield on

MrJxt · March 10, 2014

I didn't mind the bleed mechanic on shields that much until I ran an invasion against grineer earlier today where an eviscerator chunked over 100hp from a single bleed proc. I agree with LxLawliet, you shouldn't be able to bleed out when you're at 1 hp unless your shield is depleted. In my case, if I get 3 bleed procs from an eviscerator then I'll die since I wasn't using health mods.

Phatose · March 10, 2014

Approaching it from "It doesn't make sense" fails badly, and quickly.

Tenno energy shields are very well established as not being impenetrable defenses - quite far from it. Never mind things like toxins. Your shields don't stop harpoons from digging in enough to drag you across the map. They can't even stop a Grineer with an actual, physical shield from knocking you over with a good smack. Your shields are not walls - never have been.

Volt_Cruelerz · March 10, 2014

Okay, just saying, I think the Bleed proc is the in-universe way of showing that one attack got through the defenses of your deflector shield. I think that the whole "not having bleed out when shields are up" argument isn't good in my opinion for the following reasons.

- A Frame with super high shield capacity is essentially safe from having their health tampered with, until their massive shields go down. This makes the game too easy, since you're safe from everything.

- If Bleed proc can only happen once your health is affected, the game becomes too difficult. Why? Because, if a Frame with low shields (Ash) gets their health hit, they can be hit with all the bleed procs in the world. If a Frame with high shields (Volt) gets their shields depleted, that means that whatever was able to do such a thing will still be out there hurting you whilst you have bleed proc on.

Thus, having Bleed proc happen at any point is good. You aren't necessarily going to die, but you should know that your high shields won't save you at every point. This mechanic was made to balance out the astounding number of high shield capacity frames that dominate the endgame. Now, you have to rethink your strategies; try the "not getting hit" or the "don't take on every enemy in the room at once" method instead of the "take my Soma and blind fire into the abyss" strategy.

In battle, anything can happen. This reflects that.

In other words, you want caster frames to have zero defensibility? Caster frames can be really hurt by things like Eviscerators because of those bleed procs. I've died a ton of times on Volt (my main) from those darn things. Volt relies on his shields to stay alive. Bleed procs completely negate that.

And I don't think any of us know why this mechanic was made other than "ooh, cool" which the devs are wont to do. Originally, slash procs were just going to reduce healing, as I recall. Bleed is not good for balance. It's an unavoidable random effect that can kill you. That's bad game design no matter how you look at it. When combined with the fact that it makes Redirection far less useful, that just makes it even worse.

arisaka · March 10, 2014

In other words, you want caster frames to have zero defensibility? Caster frames can be really hurt by things like Eviscerators because of those bleed procs. I've died a ton of times on Volt (my main) from those darn things. Volt relies on his shields to stay alive. Bleed procs completely negate that.

And I don't think any of us know why this mechanic was made other than "ooh, cool" which the devs are wont to do. Originally, slash procs were just going to reduce healing, as I recall. Bleed is not good for balance. It's an unavoidable random effect that can kill you. That's bad game design no matter how you look at it. When combined with the fact that it makes Redirection far less useful, that just makes it even worse.

I agree. Bleed is random and it bypasses shields. It should be one or the other. Right now it's basically a whatever % chance to make Redirection useless that is often triggered via the Grineer's HITSCAN attacks.

KittyDarkling · March 10, 2014

I really enjoy the bleed procs in this game just as they are. and as someone who primarily Mains frames like Loki and Nova, I feel that means something. If you dont have much health then you need to be prepared to dodge. Evisorators are some of the only units with enough slash damage to hurt during procs. They only fire slow moving projectiles that are -very- loud and hard to not notice, as such their quite easy to avoid and take out. Aisde from them even 40 minutes into survival on any given planet I've never been bled dry from any enimy unit. So I'd say it's just like Kashiki and Phatose said, It makes the game a lot more fun and challenging.

Edited March 10, 2014 by KittyDarkling

Leuca · March 10, 2014

I don't think Bleed is inherently bad, but it needs to be balanced by more reliable ways to regain health naturally, either through passive (slow) regeneration or with health orbs being able to drop from more enemies.

NiborDeathridge · March 10, 2014

Approaching it from "It doesn't make sense" fails badly, and quickly.

Tenno energy shields are very well established as not being impenetrable defenses - quite far from it. Never mind things like toxins. Your shields don't stop harpoons from digging in enough to drag you across the map. They can't even stop a Grineer with an actual, physical shield from knocking you over with a good smack. Your shields are not walls - never have been.

Energy shields in pretty much any game that have them have pretty much never stopped all the kinetic impact, that's not what they're designed to do. They're designed to keep projectiles from actually making it through the barrier of energy that envelopes you. This would not stop anyone from being able to push you over, unbalance and topple you, or wrap a cord around a limb and drag you around. You could still get shot by a powerfull enough weapon to stager you, but the actual projectile would be deflected. The sense, it's still there

Pazgabear, on 09 Mar 2014 - 11:20 PM, said:

If they shred through a 1k capacity shield, how do you think 300HP will hold against such firepower ? Bleed proc won't be the problem in this situation

I agree with the fact bleeding shouldn't put you down, almost anything can proc bleeding effect, and being down just because you couldn't find a health orb in time is such a pain in the arse. Still, i think it should proc even with a shield on

They may shred through 1k shields, but taking cover for a moment regenerates that shielding and fairly quickly even without mods to speed it up. But being chipped away bit by bit by bit by constant bleed procing while you're taking the stray bullet as you go from one area to cover to another is annoying and unnecessary. I understand it may be used as an incentive to bring a Trinity, Oberon or Nekros, but if i'm not mistaken the devs stated they wanted all the frames to be viable, so that any four man team (let's not get into how skewed against solo play Warframe is atm) with sufficient skill at managing damage and proper equipment should be equally viable as any other four man team. This really just necessitates having a medic in your party or taking along HP regen items.

Also.....nobody has any ideas/support for the bleed proc having different effects dependent on rather your shields are up or not? I mean....yeah, it would at a tiny bit more complexity to managing your HP/Shields and reacting to status procs, but not enough that I think it would get confusing or difficult to do so

Edited March 10, 2014 by NiborDeathridge

CandyDragon · March 10, 2014

Health orbs just need to drop a bit more to compensate for this. Far to often does bleed just wittle down a group on t3 defense that didn't bring a OBeron (useless) or a trinity (godmode)

Phatose · March 10, 2014

You'll notice however, that those same energy shields that don't stop kinetic impact do absorb the damage from it. The shield hit hurts your shields. The blast that causes the blast proc damages your shields, but you still get knocked over. And the harpoon clearly makes it right through your shields - if it didn't, you wouldn't be harpooned.

I wouldn't support any change that makes shields an effective solution to bleed. Shields already regenerate and are thus the best defensive measure available. They shouldn't be a solution to bleed as well. I'm all for changes that would allow countermeasures or avoidance, but nothing that amounts to "The redirection I already have on will protect me."

DalaiLlama · March 10, 2014

I'm going to agree with thhe OP, as slash proc damage to health fundamentally defeats the purpose of shielding, or even shields as a whole. And maybe it's just me, but I've died so many times to slash damage with shields still remaining that its existence is infuriating.

(PSN)ariaandkia · March 10, 2014

Approaching it from "It doesn't make sense" fails badly, and quickly.

Tenno energy shields are very well established as not being impenetrable defenses - quite far from it. Never mind things like toxins. Your shields don't stop harpoons from digging in enough to drag you across the map. They can't even stop a Grineer with an actual, physical shield from knocking you over with a good smack. Your shields are not walls - never have been.

Tenno shields were never meant to be impenetrable from what I can tell, definitely agree here.

If they shred through a 1k capacity shield, how do you think 300HP will hold against such firepower ? Bleed proc won't be the problem in this situation

I agree with the fact bleeding shouldn't put you down, almost anything can proc bleeding effect, and being down just because you couldn't find a health orb in time is such a pain in the arse. Still, i think it should proc even with a shield on

I agree with this in terms of the "if it can rip through your shield, your HP won't save you even without the bleed proc" concept.

I agree. Bleed is random and it bypasses shields. It should be one or the other. Right now it's basically a whatever % chance to make Redirection useless that is often triggered via the Grineer's HITSCAN attacks.

I'd rather it be random and bypass shields than have it happen every time. In the OLD system for procs, bleed would have occurred EVERY time you got hit by a slash attack. Like how toxic ancients always poisoned you and would MURDER you with poison damage procs.

If we removed the random portion, then bleed would be MUCH more powerful since it would ALWAYS happen. You WANT that to happen? You must really think that the game is far too easy.

In other words, you want caster frames to have zero defensibility? Caster frames can be really hurt by things like Eviscerators because of those bleed procs. I've died a ton of times on Volt (my main) from those darn things. Volt relies on his shields to stay alive. Bleed procs completely negate that.

And I don't think any of us know why this mechanic was made other than "ooh, cool" which the devs are wont to do. Originally, slash procs were just going to reduce healing, as I recall. Bleed is not good for balance. It's an unavoidable random effect that can kill you. That's bad game design no matter how you look at it. When combined with the fact that it makes Redirection far less useful, that just makes it even worse.

I play caster frames almost exclusively. Even frames that weren't "designed" to be caster frames. Yet I have NEVER had an issue with eviscerators, bleeding procs, or poison procs after damage 2.0. (Direct damage effects were insane before damage 2.0 since it was a 100% proc chance.)

The bleed is really a non-issue as long as you play things smart. I see an eviscerator? First thing I do is DODGE. Second thing I do is find WORKING COVER. THIRD thing I do is kill them. Same with Napalms (Those are more likely to kill you than eviscerators since their flames will hurt you with fast DPS as long as you are within their range and their flames WILL kill your sentinel).

I've played as a Volt quite a bit. Eviscerators, slash, toxic, never been an issue because I don't run out in the open and nuke expecting to live. Instead, I jump from cover to cover and SLIDE CAST (aerial or ground depending on ability and warframe) or cast from cover. With few exceptions. I have watched players with 3 times my health and 3 times my shields (sometimes both) go down 5-10 times while I went down 0 times. I might have ended with 5 health in a few of those situations (because I went to save them and they just lay there like limp fish instead of trying to find cover so that they could be easily saved), but I didn't go down. There were a few times that I did go down, but generally a lot less than the rest of the party and always because I tried to save someone.

How is it that a rank 1 ember out DPSes a Nova (About 80% to 15%, roughly), outkills a Nova (about 400 to 250), takes 1% damage compared to 64%, and dies less than the nova who had much more shield and health (it was somewhere around 300~700 each for one of the novas).

How is it that a rank 1 Valkyr out DPSes a Nova and an Oberon-who were both obviously high ranked (the warframe)? (About 54% to 34% to 12% to 1%), has about the same kill ratio (Somewhere around 100 to 60 to 20 to 15) and takes the least damage (around 12%), had the most revives (around 20), and DID NOT DIE.

How? SIMPLE. NOT GOING OUT OF MY WAY TO DIE LIKE MOST PEOPLE SEEM TO DO.

I start getting shot at? Cover! Sawblades coming at me? Get out of enclosed areas such as tunnels, find cover.

Calculate the chances of killing everything before they can attack you and if your chances are good enough, decide if you want to take the risk.

You know, instead of trying to rush ahead and getting yourself killed?

(Like that one player yesterday that ditched the party in an invasion (as the party ran towards the pod) and died about 2 seconds after he landed).

When I slide into a group of enemies, it is because I have a PLAN on how to fight them without taking more than 1 bleeding proc. 1 bleeding proc is not much, if I can nuke them and get away (relatively) safely, then I might just do it.

I've had Novas rush ahead spamming MP trying to outkill me and FAIL. I've watched them go down trying.

===

My point? The bleeding proc is fine. The shields were not made to stop bleed proc. It makes sense if you think about it since your shield doesn't stop everything. (Think of it as a sort of regenerating armor. Think about tanks. Even if a tank had say nanotech armor that regenerated and stops most attacks, there will still be armor piercing weaponry that will get through that armor without completely destroying it).

Volt_Cruelerz · March 10, 2014

Tenno shields were never meant to be impenetrable from what I can tell, definitely agree here.

I agree with this in terms of the "if it can rip through your shield, your HP won't save you even without the bleed proc" concept.

I'd rather it be random and bypass shields than have it happen every time. In the OLD system for procs, bleed would have occurred EVERY time you got hit by a slash attack. Like how toxic ancients always poisoned you and would MURDER you with poison damage procs.

If we removed the random portion, then bleed would be MUCH more powerful since it would ALWAYS happen. You WANT that to happen? You must really think that the game is far too easy.

I play caster frames almost exclusively. Even frames that weren't "designed" to be caster frames. Yet I have NEVER had an issue with eviscerators, bleeding procs, or poison procs after damage 2.0. (Direct damage effects were insane before damage 2.0 since it was a 100% proc chance.)

The bleed is really a non-issue as long as you play things smart. I see an eviscerator? First thing I do is DODGE. Second thing I do is find WORKING COVER. THIRD thing I do is kill them. Same with Napalms (Those are more likely to kill you than eviscerators since their flames will hurt you with fast DPS as long as you are within their range and their flames WILL kill your sentinel).

I've played as a Volt quite a bit. Eviscerators, slash, toxic, never been an issue because I don't run out in the open and nuke expecting to live. Instead, I jump from cover to cover and SLIDE CAST (aerial or ground depending on ability and warframe) or cast from cover. With few exceptions. I have watched players with 3 times my health and 3 times my shields (sometimes both) go down 5-10 times while I went down 0 times. I might have ended with 5 health in a few of those situations (because I went to save them and they just lay there like limp fish instead of trying to find cover so that they could be easily saved), but I didn't go down. There were a few times that I did go down, but generally a lot less than the rest of the party and always because I tried to save someone.

How is it that a rank 1 ember out DPSes a Nova (About 80% to 15%, roughly), outkills a Nova (about 400 to 250), takes 1% damage compared to 64%, and dies less than the nova who had much more shield and health (it was somewhere around 300~700 each for one of the novas).

How is it that a rank 1 Valkyr out DPSes a Nova and an Oberon-who were both obviously high ranked (the warframe)? (About 54% to 34% to 12% to 1%), has about the same kill ratio (Somewhere around 100 to 60 to 20 to 15) and takes the least damage (around 12%), had the most revives (around 20), and DID NOT DIE.

How? SIMPLE. NOT GOING OUT OF MY WAY TO DIE LIKE MOST PEOPLE SEEM TO DO.

I start getting shot at? Cover! Sawblades coming at me? Get out of enclosed areas such as tunnels, find cover.

Calculate the chances of killing everything before they can attack you and if your chances are good enough, decide if you want to take the risk.

You know, instead of trying to rush ahead and getting yourself killed?

(Like that one player yesterday that ditched the party in an invasion (as the party ran towards the pod) and died about 2 seconds after he landed).

When I slide into a group of enemies, it is because I have a PLAN on how to fight them without taking more than 1 bleeding proc. 1 bleeding proc is not much, if I can nuke them and get away (relatively) safely, then I might just do it.

I've had Novas rush ahead spamming MP trying to outkill me and FAIL. I've watched them go down trying.

===

My point? The bleeding proc is fine. The shields were not made to stop bleed proc. It makes sense if you think about it since your shield doesn't stop everything. (Think of it as a sort of regenerating armor. Think about tanks. Even if a tank had say nanotech armor that regenerated and stops most attacks, there will still be armor piercing weaponry that will get through that armor without completely destroying it).

I'm not suicidal in my play either. And just because you've outdone idiots means nothing and you are neglecting the power of your guns.

I agree it's not as bad anymore. Honestly, at this point, it's a matter of principle. It's a game mechanic that can randomly kill you. That's just bad. And the fact that something that gets blocked by an energy shield yet still makes you bleed just doesn't make sense.

It's a mechanic that is a lottery death sentence. That is why I am opposed.

(PSN)ariaandkia · March 10, 2014

I'm not suicidal in my play either. And just because you've outdone idiots means nothing and you are neglecting the power of your guns.

I agree it's not as bad anymore. Honestly, at this point, it's a matter of principle. It's a game mechanic that can randomly kill you. That's just bad. And the fact that something that gets blocked by an energy shield yet still makes you bleed just doesn't make sense.

It's a mechanic that is a lottery death sentence. That is why I am opposed.

I love how you automatically assume ALL of them were idiots. A few of them were actually good players-the first few times I played with them before they started getting competitive because I was consistently out-killing them (I was still out-DPSing them and taking less damage, but the damage part was much closer (I would take like 10~20% damage). Those situations were specific to when they were actively competing with me for kills.

It doesn't just RANDOMLY kill you. You have to be hit. And with a few exceptions of bleeding so little that it doesn't even matter and enemies that will probably kill you before you start bleeding, it can be avoided almost entirely.

Like I said in the example of regenerating armor. First part of the impact damages the armor, second part goes through and does the damage to what is inside the armor.

Think of it this way. Chainmail armor with laminar armor. GENERALLY, swords could not cut through quality chainmail armor and was even less likely to cut through laminar. HOWEVER, the IMPACT from the blow could still go through. Imagine getting bitten in the hand by a shark with shark armor on (your hand). It might stop your skin from being punctured, but if the shark really tried, it could probably crush your hand.

It just happens that this armor regenerates.

Think of it this way. Personal shielding in warframe are less like those force fields you see in sci-fi (such as elysium, star trek, star wars, etc) that provide complete shielding in an area and more like armor made from energy.

As for me neglecting my weapons. That is mainly because I generally only use my weapons when I have a reason to use them. For one, I generally can't hit anything within a certain range-at least not using firearms. Now, I might hit them if I'm aiming for something else, but I can't control what I'm hitting (outside of choosing what I don't hit). An oddity about me is that as long as I can see it, the FURTHER I am from my target, the more accurate I become. And my sight isn't necessarily vision based. When I kill the stalker, I'm actually not aiming at the stalker itself. I'm aiming at a coordinate direction and HOPING the stalker happens to be in that direction when the shots hit.

Now, with melee, that isn't such a big deal. However, there are weapons I have high affinity with and weapons I have low affinity with.

Edited March 10, 2014 by (PS4)ariaandkia

Volt_Cruelerz · March 10, 2014

It doesn't just RANDOMLY kill you. You have to be hit. And with a few exceptions of bleeding so little that it doesn't even matter and enemies that will probably kill you before you start bleeding, it can be avoided almost entirely.

Like I said in the example of regenerating armor. First part of the impact damages the armor, second part goes through and does the damage to what is inside the armor.

Think of it this way. Chainmail armor with laminar armor. GENERALLY, swords could not cut through quality chainmail armor and was even less likely to cut through laminar. HOWEVER, the IMPACT from the blow could still go through. Imagine getting bitten in the hand by a shark with shark armor on (your hand). It might stop your skin from being punctured, but if the shark really tried, it could probably crush your hand.

It just happens that this armor regenerates.

Think of it this way. Personal shielding in warframe are less like those force fields you see in sci-fi (such as elysium, star trek, star wars, etc) that provide complete shielding in an area and more like armor made from energy.

You're still failing to see the problem with the fact that you can randomly die to hitscan projectiles. That's just not fun. I know it's rare, but the fact is, it can happen and it has happened to me and I am bitter about it. I don't want other players to be cursed by RNG like that.

Also, you're making up needlessly complicated and unconventional beliefs about the technology of Warframe to justify something.

Edited March 10, 2014 by Volt_Cruelerz