Trinity Is Still Op Broken

[ItalianPlumber]

Tell me... why is an infinite invulnerability-with-full-heal move fun by any stretch of the imagination? It literally prevents you from losing by conventional means.

 

More importantly, it prevents any other "support" Warframe from competing without having something else that's ALSO extremely powerful.

 

I don't understand why having an "I win" button that has different looks and flavor across different Warframes is something to strive for, as well.

 

That just gives the ILLUSION of diversity..

[ZayTM]

Awee you is so sweet~ Thanks~

 

So we're gonna nerf her or change her or what?

 

Honestly, she needs a net buff. Just change how the invincibility works on Blessing to make it less abusable and put some power into her 1 and 2. Even if you think the Link+Blessing+Ogris/Penta/Stug combo is broken, the problem is still Blessing. With just Link it's not nearly as effective

 

My Stug does around 2000 damage per shot (actually higher, but rounded down here for simplicity). Link reduces damage by 75%; this is not affected by mods. 25% of 2000 = 500.

 

So I'd still be taking 500 damage per shot and would be dead VERY quickly. Would I do a lot of damage? Yes, but it wouldn't be worth it at all.

[kscott190]

WTF is wrong with you people always wanting something nerf'd

[ZayTM]

WTF is wrong with you people always wanting something nerf'd

 

Because the entire team being invincible forever is silly?

[kscott190]

Because the entire team being invincible forever is silly?

If that's something they want to do then let them

[rroorr]

If you want to get rid of the Blessing invincibility then the whole frame would have to be reworked. Many Trinity players carry Blessing exclusively cause her other abilities are underwhelming unless you abuse Link with self damage, no matter how boring it is. If you simply get rid of it without an equally as good alternative then prepare for the forums being flooded with "Trinity worst frame", on a scale comparable or bigger than what happened after Snowglobe was nerfed and rightfully so. I also cannot understand why people here are on a crusade to nerf frames a handful of people use, like Trinity or Excalibur at the moment. Doesn't it concern anybody else that currently there is 2 Rhinos and a Nova in every pug?

[ZayTM]

If you want to get rid of the Blessing invincibility then the whole frame would have to be reworked. Many Trinity players carry Blessing exclusively cause her other abilities are underwhelming unless you abuse Link with self damage, no matter how boring it is. If you simply get rid of it without an equally as good alternative then prepare for the forums being flooded with "Trinity worst frame", on a scale comparable or bigger than what happened after Snowglobe was nerfed and rightfully so. I also cannot understand why people here are on a crusade to nerf frames a handful of people use, like Trinity or Excalibur at the moment. Doesn't it concern anybody else that currently there is 2 Rhinos and a Nova in every pug?

 

I did say her other abilities need to be buffed, didn't I? Her current kit is terrible and bolstered only because she's stupidly abusable. Just because it would be easy to do doesn't mean she should be left in this state. I don't want her to be crippled, I love playing her. I want to be able to use all of my abilities and not just spam Blessing off cooldown.

 

And personally, there's only a few choice abilities I'd nerf. Almost every frame needs buffs, if anything.

Molecular Prime needs a change. I don't know, SOMETHING. It does way too much way too well. I honestly have no idea how to fix it, it isn't just a numbers issue.

Blessing's invincibility needs to be either fixed (as in, unable to be increased or decreased) or swapped out for a different mechanic. All of her other abilities need serious buffs to compensate, or be reworked all together.

Bastille probably needs a shorter cooldown, but that's really it.

 

Other than those, almost every frame needs buffs, not nerfs. Excal's damaging skills need some love (currently only Radial Blind is viable), Contagion really should give Saryn knockdown resist, Nyx should be able to cancel absorb early... Nerfs aren't fun, but neither are moves that take all of the challenge out of the game for not just you, but everyone on your team. Nobody likes walking through empty levels because Nova killed everything on the map, and wading through an entire game invincible because your cell's Trinity can keep Blessing up at all times gets very dull VERY fast.

[rroorr]

I did say her other abilities need to be buffed, didn't I? Her current kit is terrible and bolstered only because she's stupidly abusable. Just because it would be easy to do doesn't mean she should be left in this state. I don't want her to be crippled, I love playing her. I want to be able to use all of my abilities and not just spam Blessing off cooldown.

 

And personally, there's only a few choice abilities I'd nerf. Almost every frame needs buffs, if anything.

Molecular Prime needs a change. I don't know, SOMETHING. It does way too much way too well. I honestly have no idea how to fix it, it isn't just a numbers issue.

Blessing's invincibility needs to be either fixed (as in, unable to be increased or decreased) or swapped out for a different mechanic. All of her other abilities need serious buffs to compensate, or be reworked all together.

Bastille probably needs a shorter cooldown, but that's really it.

 

Other than those, almost every frame needs buffs, not nerfs. Excal's damaging skills need some love (currently only Radial Blind is viable), Contagion really should give Saryn knockdown resist, Nyx should be able to cancel absorb early... Nerfs aren't fun, but neither are moves that take all of the challenge out of the game for not just you, but everyone on your team. Nobody likes walking through empty levels because Nova killed everything on the map, and wading through an entire game invincible because your cell's Trinity can keep Blessing up at all times gets very dull VERY fast.

I agree completely, just that I feel buffs to her current skills would not be enough to make Trinity good without her invincibility. I believe the only way to "fix" her would be a complete rework, and I am somewhow sceptical about that happening seeing how frames were changed so far. I fear DE might take the easy route and nerf it out of usefulness.

[Tatersail]

That depends entirely on the lore of the book you're reading.

I've always played as a neutral paladin anyway, the balance between chaotic evil and lawful good allows humanity to advance as it does.

 

Neverwinter nights you had to be Lawful good to gain levels as a paladin. http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Paladin "Alignment restrictions: lawful good only"

but you only had to be "Any Evil" for Blackguard..  so you can be Lawful Evil!

 

 

 

 

I think corrupted mods have caused issues with alot of frames powers.

 

Extending the duration on some powers until they become 100% uptime changes the way they work dramatically.

 

A low rank trinity could have done this (inside the 4 second window) at the start of the game, its only the added duration that makes it imbalanced.

 

 

I think fleeting expertise is also a huge problem, as cost and duration are somewhat linked. Fleeting needs to reduce the TOTAL MODDED duration, not the base duration.

 

so a fleeting build should only last 18 seconds not 30 seconds, on a 36 second skill.

[Zarozian]

If you want to get rid of the Blessing invincibility then the whole frame would have to be reworked. Many Trinity players carry Blessing exclusively cause her other abilities are underwhelming unless you abuse Link with self damage, no matter how boring it is. If you simply get rid of it without an equally as good alternative then prepare for the forums being flooded with "Trinity worst frame", on a scale comparable or bigger than what happened after Snowglobe was nerfed and rightfully so. I also cannot understand why people here are on a crusade to nerf frames a handful of people use, like Trinity or Excalibur at the moment. Doesn't it concern anybody else that currently there is 2 Rhinos and a Nova in every pug?

Yeah that's definitely true, she needs a whole entire rework, and she needs to be revamped into.......

 

THE VAMPIRE WARFRAME.

[(PSN)pmnovaroadspilot]

I did say her other abilities need to be buffed, didn't I? Her current kit is terrible and bolstered only because she's stupidly abusable. Just because it would be easy to do doesn't mean she should be left in this state. I don't want her to be crippled, I love playing her. I want to be able to use all of my abilities and not just spam Blessing off cooldown.

 

And personally, there's only a few choice abilities I'd nerf. Almost every frame needs buffs, if anything.

Molecular Prime needs a change. I don't know, SOMETHING. It does way too much way too well. I honestly have no idea how to fix it, it isn't just a numbers issue.

Blessing's invincibility needs to be either fixed (as in, unable to be increased or decreased) or swapped out for a different mechanic. All of her other abilities need serious buffs to compensate, or be reworked all together.

Bastille probably needs a shorter cooldown, but that's really it.

 

Other than those, almost every frame needs buffs, not nerfs. Excal's damaging skills need some love (currently only Radial Blind is viable), Contagion really should give Saryn knockdown resist, Nyx should be able to cancel absorb early... Nerfs aren't fun, but neither are moves that take all of the challenge out of the game for not just you, but everyone on your team. Nobody likes walking through empty levels because Nova killed everything on the map, and wading through an entire game invincible because your cell's Trinity can keep Blessing up at all times gets very dull VERY fast.

i like the invincibility 

you dont 

know how to fix this 

let the caster keep the invincibility 

let the others simply regain health and shields 

blam problem fixed 

i get to keep my options

and you dont have to complain about trinity infringing upon your personal sequences of gameplay 

 

thats a good tweak 

[ZayTM]

i like the invincibility 

you dont 

know how to fix this 

let the caster keep the invincibility 

let the others simply regain health and shields 

blam problem fixed 

i get to keep my options

and you dont have to complain about trinity infringing upon your personal sequences of gameplay 

 

thats a good tweak 

That completely defeats the purpose of the invincibility, from a gameplay design perspective. If anything, the teammates should get the invincibility and Trinity shouldn't. Blessing's purpose is as an emergency help button for the entire team, and the invincibility is there to ensure that she actually saves her friends. Since she was designed for teamwork in mind, giving her a huge incentive to play selfishly doesn't fit her design intentions at all.

 

That being said, I think there needs to be something after Blessing. Some kind of grace period where there's a large amount of damage reduction or even a static, unchanging 10 seconds of invincibility. But permanent invincibility is a bad idea, whether teamwide or just selfish.

[Tatersail]

make it like ironskin?

 

4 seconds of immunity, that is unaffected by duration then a static Overshield for 2000 damage with either no duration or limited duration.

you could also remove all the healing elements and force trinity to actually use her 1

 

Could make it aggressive health regeneration for the duration, 10 seconds of 300 shields and 300 health per second, effected by duration

 

or even change the nature of the skill, make it a flat reduction, 80% reduction for X duration

 

 

 

or.. simplest of all, Remove duration mods effecting the immunity!

 

fixed, "balanced", Check

Edited March 26, 2014 by Tatersail

[(PSN)pmnovaroadspilot]

That completely defeats the purpose of the invincibility, from a gameplay design perspective. If anything, the teammates should get the invincibility and Trinity shouldn't. Blessing's purpose is as an emergency help button for the entire team, and the invincibility is there to ensure that she actually saves her friends. Since she was designed for teamwork in mind, giving her a huge incentive to play selfishly doesn't fit her design intentions at all.

 

That being said, I think there needs to be something after Blessing. Some kind of grace period where there's a large amount of damage reduction or even a static, unchanging 10 seconds of invincibility. But permanent invincibility is a bad idea, whether teamwide or just selfish.

no it doesnt 

the caster gets the invisibility while still contributing support aka you get health and shields

 

you complained about it

now you back stepping WOW

be consistent  

 

there are some that maybe want close to perm invincibility 

 

let them play that way stop trying to micro manage everything 

that way you get to play the way you want on your screen and on their screen they get to play the way they want 

 

 

you post reeks of

"they should play exactly how i invision it "

sorry man but you arent and shouldnt boss to that extent 

 

i gave that suggestion to help not over infringe on what you are doing in your own sequence and to let others keep that option

Edited March 26, 2014 by (PS4)pmnovaroadspilot

[ZayTM]

you complained about it

now you back stepping WOW

be consistent  

I am doing no such thing. Every single post I've made here has mentioned that the invincibility or at least some sort of damage mitigation needs to be on Blessing. The invincibility isn't the problem, it is the ability to have it always on. As I have said (several times), the easiest fix would just be to stop letting it be effected by duration mods.

[Kibbols123]

I've seen M prime kill everything in T3 survival

 

Yeah, you do realize that only works with specific mods right?

We have to get rare Corrupt mods to even make that work.

[GTG3000]

That completely defeats the purpose of the invincibility, from a gameplay design perspective. If anything, the teammates should get the invincibility and Trinity shouldn't. Blessing's purpose is as an emergency help button for the entire team, and the invincibility is there to ensure that she actually saves her friends. Since she was designed for teamwork in mind, giving her a huge incentive to play selfishly doesn't fit her design intentions at all.

 

That being said, I think there needs to be something after Blessing. Some kind of grace period where there's a large amount of damage reduction or even a static, unchanging 10 seconds of invincibility. But permanent invincibility is a bad idea, whether teamwide or just selfish.

 

On the contrary, it IS the way to go if you want to make Trin teamwork-compatible without giving her ability to clean out rooms. That would be to give her back old not-that-damaging-close-range-hope-you-have-enough-shields-under-that Link, and make her first and fourth require attention to teammates, first as a sort of heal-aoe (probably directed one, in some way), and fourth being a ranged AoE that rises downed allies and gives them crazy regen boost (as is - you can't be downed for the duration, your health and shields constantly regen at some high rate), with say 25% effect on those outside of the AoE. You could rework EV to count her damage only and give energy in same AoE it does now. You could limit her spamming by giving her skills a timer that outlasts their duration (like old EV, remember it?), which would make you think when to use her skills, and when to just don Link and run around rising people.

 

Lots can be done to make Trinity awesome, in many ways. But I'm not seeing Blessing as it is in those solutions. And much less I'm seeing Scott fixing her the way that won't make us all wish we didn't say anything at all.

[RealPandemonium]

Yeah, you do realize that only works with specific mods right?

We have to get rare Corrupt mods to even make that work.

Corrupted mods are not hard to get; balance discussions are made with them in mind.  Early game is balanced because you are still learning how to play the game and your weapons are weak.  The sweet spot of balance is level 20-45 where the bulk of gameplay occurs, and you can amply have all the corrupted mods by then if you put in a little time or use some plat.  

[Chaz_Darkbane]

We should just nerf all frames until they are useless, obviously soma is the only true playstyle. How does these trinity's doing this harm you? At all? It isn't like they get anything special from doing it. It isn't like they do it in a pvp environment. Why do people care about a frame being too effective of an instanced pve game. I don't even own trinity and I couldn't care less. We should focus less on making good frames worse, and more on making bad frames do well.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Chaz_Darkbane

[Cwierz]

the 1st and 3rd point dont mean diddley squat because they are about my personal experiences and how i play the game

 

dont tell me how to use my time playing the game 

balance doesnt matter in PVE games most time 

the only time it matters is when you are invalidating someone elses fun 

and that is a grey area 

DE needs to start banning people from posting feedback if they honestly believe these things.

This post it dumb.

I am about to give up on this subforum, just because of the sheer blindness and idiocy present.

[theammostore]

We should just nerf all frames until they are useless, obviously soma is the only true playstyle. How does these trinity's doing this harm you? At all? It isn't like they get anything special from doing it. It isn't like they do it in a pvp environment. Why do people care about a frame being too effective of an instanced pve game. I don't even own trinity and I couldn't care less. We should focus less on making good frames worse, and more on making bad frames do well.

alright, so, every bad frame becomes a god amongst peasants that are the AI. They cannot touch any frame, and each and every frame can walk with impunity through anything our enemies throw at us. We no long struggle to survive and give balance to the galaxy, we become vengeful deities smiting down anything that isn't us.

 

First off, how is that fun in any way shape or form.

 

Secondly, yes, that is exactly what you are saying what we should do. Don't nerf anything, bring everything up to god-tier.

[GraalOhOtonami]

alright, so, every bad frame becomes a god amongst peasants that are the AI. They cannot touch any frame, and each and every frame can walk with impunity through anything our enemies throw at us. We no long struggle to survive and give balance to the galaxy, we become vengeful deities smiting down anything that isn't us.

 

First off, how is that fun in any way shape or form.

 

Secondly, yes, that is exactly what you are saying what we should do. Don't nerf anything, bring everything up to god-tier.

Strokin' mah epeen, brah.

 

It's fun for light entertainment, but it's not a fun CHALLENGE.

[HackShield]

how funny >.> dicusss about those and gambling with lvl 10 to 20 enemies ~.~ 

 

sure a nova in a mid range mission spamming mp is annoying but dont makes her op the mod combinated right thats all

 

rhinos stomp is maned to be save the group if it slows the boss job done if needed or not

 

loki WOW hes invi and do dmg uhm come on play loki with out invi you gonna be a crouching corp in higher missions

 

and about trinity CONGRATZ you found a strategy how she can make aoe dmg with a weapon with that you can dmg yourself...

 

the only reason that works its cuase the dmg can dmged yourself not in the skill outlines of trinity ... she isnt op

[(PSN)pmnovaroadspilot]

DE needs to start banning people from posting feedback if they honestly believe these things.

This post it dumb.

I am about to give up on this subforum, just because of the sheer blindness and idiocy present.

I believe it 

look you shouldn't tell me how to build something because you aren't in my house, you aren't using my tv or system 

if i like things that are powerful then you shouldn't try to dictate my options because you have this misconstrued idea that everyone wants to conform to the way you play

 

if im not ruining your fun and invalidating on your participation then why are you trying to spoil mine 

trinity does not do these things the only grey area is nova. 

 

you can call my premise idiotic but without a actual counter argument (insults are hollow without actual insulation) I fail to see any credibility or validity  in your post. 

 

feed back doesnt always mean balance or nerfs it means fixing bugs, making buffs and improving the game aesthetically in fact nerfs are the last thing that should be on anybody's thoughts. 

because your thoughts arent objective...they are subjective and only apply to your schema of thinking... you need to learn to live and let live as long as it doesnt invalidate participation. 

Edited March 29, 2014 by (PS4)pmnovaroadspilot

[Cwierz]

I believe it 

look you shouldn't tell me how to build something because you aren't in my house, you aren't using my tv or system 

if i like things that are powerful then you shouldn't try to dictate my options because you have this misconstrued idea that everyone wants to conform to the way you play

 

if im not ruining your fun and invalidating on your participation then why are you trying to spoil mine 

trinity does not do these things the only grey area is nova. 

 

you can call my premise idiotic but without a actual counter argument (insults are hollow without actual insulation) I fail to see any credibility or validity  in your post. 

 

feed back doesnt always mean balance or nerfs it means fixing bugs, making buffs and improving the game aesthetically in fact nerfs are the last thing that should be on anybody's thoughts. 

because your thoughts arent objective...they are subjective and only apply to your schema of thinking... you need to learn to live and let live as long as it doesnt invalidate participation. 

> Permanent invincibility isn't overpowered!

> I am going to defend a blantantly overpowered thing because I find it fun!

> Obviously these overpowered items are going to add to the sustainability of the game!

> I actually know what I am talking about! Well maybe! But I sure do know that mean person over there is spoiling my permanent invincibility.

> It doesn't matter how overpowered you are in a game as long as it isn't pvp! Because screw replay value and sustainability.

> I remember this one time I played a game that let you have cheat codes. The game wasn't that fun when I played through it :(

> Nerfing is badd.... Oh noo, scary nerfs! Nerfs are bad!

 

God, this is the @(*()$ reason I post this S#&$ in the first place.

 

Sometimes I use this close to flawed analogy to help explain this to people.

 

Imagine you have a scale you need to balance. It is a very complex scale, a very delicate scale. Some little creatures believe that the way the scale is right now is good, but haven't noticed their world is angled. The scale has multiple moving parts, pads to place things at, and various objects on them. This scale is very #*($%%@ up right now. The scale is not evened out. There are three ways we can fix this. We can add weight to the lighter parts, and we can remove weight from the heavier parts, or we could do a mixture of both. When we remove things from the scale, rarely we accidentally take something that belonged to the little creatures, but not often.

So we should do the second solution right? Wrong. If you add to much weight to that scale, it is going to break. And when that happens, nearly every little creature on that scale is going to move away. The third is the optimal solution, the lowest margin for error, and the only one that wont F*** over the little creatures. 

Right now, there are a few anvils hanging on a couple of the arms on that scale. 

 

 

Ill let you figure out the metaphors in that, and decide for yourself how you want to respond to it. I already have it predicted though, and if you don't say it I can guarantee I know a few people who will.