Monolake Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I'm pretty sure its a bug. I'm expecting it to be fixed this or next week. It wasn't fixed in the last patch. And the problem is mainly in Vanguards huge speed bonus, Rhino Prime speed increase only further upped it to completely absurd level making Rhino the fastest frame with the same speed as Loki. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttariel Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 The problem is not that a prime gets better stats. Its that it loses its only downside and can get topspeed for almost nothing, while other frames that really could use something like this get to stay on the spot just to get outrun by a rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansJurgen Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) The problem is not that a prime gets better stats. Its that it loses its only downside and can get topspeed for almost nothing, while other frames that really could use something like this get to stay on the spot just to get outrun by a rock. That would make sense if all warframes had identical abilities. Rhinos are supposed to play a vanguard role, close in with the mobs and soak up damage. Its low range, damage based abilities leave little room for varied playstyle. Soft warframes don't need to be particularly fast or faster than others, since they always hang out back anyway. As a tanker, Rhino is pretty bad at its job, because it is slower than everyone else. By the time it gets where it is supposed to be, the show's over. As for speed being the "only" downside of Rhino. Really? How about borring? Tap diamond skin, tap the forward key, fire your gun. GG, you have just experienced 99% of what Rhino is about. Whine. Whine never changes. Bugs don't just happen. It is a conspiracy. personally I hate the fact that some frames are faster than others. Makes for team abandonment and never being able to stick with the team the norm...wish all frames had the same fast run speed... Or level layouts could be changed (chokepoints where each memeber of the team needs to push a button to advance) to force players to stick together throughout most of the map. Higher chance of worthwhile loot could be added in lockers, side quests, hidden stashes, interesting puzzles and better map design with interesting stuff to see, instead of the same generic, dull ramps and corridors. All these things would slow down players and reward exploring. Currently, there is no appeal or rewards for taking your time. You get rewarded for playing the same mission over and over again as fast as possible. Mob respawning. Most missions have this. If you stick around while playing solo with a soft warframe, and try to be all tactical and thorough about it, you will soon get swamped in mobs and you will die. You have no choice but rush forward. Going through a level all stealthy and slow has no reward to it. In fact, you are shooting yourself in the foot, since you are making less of everything by playing less missions in an hour than if you would just rush through levels and get to your objective in record time. You could search for loot. Often times, it is all complete garbage, and you are better off quickly picking whatever drops you see and moving on to the next thing. The game punishes the one who can't get in time to extraction, and not those who got there without waiting up on their team mates, which contravenies to the whole idea of "team". You are encouraged to not care about your team, and you are essentially penalized if you do, by staying behind and hacking alarms, or reviving a fallen team mate. Lastly, there is no penalty for leaving a team mate to die, or reward for reviving someone. It is merely a matter of personal choice. If practicality matters more to you than "ehonor", and you know that you can solo the mission, there is really no point to revive anyone, at all. Edited March 12, 2014 by HansJurgen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrosslyIncandescent1709 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 That would make sense if all warframes had identical abilities. Rhinos are supposed to play a vanguard role, close in with the mobs and soak up damage. Its low range, damage based abilities leave little room for varied playstyle. Soft warframes don't need to be particularly fast or faster than others, since they always hang out back anyway. As a tanker, Rhino is pretty bad at its job, because it is slower than everyone else. By the time it gets where it is supposed to be, the show's over. As for speed being the "only" downside of Rhino. Really? How about borring? Tap diamond skin, tap the forward key, fire your gun. GG, you have just experienced 99% of what Rhino is about. Whine. Whine never changes. you're... you're one of those guys not comprehending that being fast as a tank is a major difference to being the fastest AND a tank right? those who argue against rhino prime being the fastest frame in the game simply posses common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LurkenLurker Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) you're... you're one of those guys not comprehending that being fast as a tank is a major difference to being the fastest AND a tank right? those who argue against rhino prime being the fastest frame in the game simply posses common sense. If warframe had any real tanking and agro mechanics i would Be against rhino's many speed boost but it doesn't How is the slow &#! rhino a frame that's second best at reviving people thanks to iron skin gonna get to you when by the time he dose your dead and you have to bust a revive how is he gonna res the loki that got trapped in flurry of AoE. OK take Rhino speed away then when you run ahead of him and die and beg him to penguin waddle his slow &#! to res you and you die before he gets there and bust a revive or if your out of revives who are you gonna blame. Look Loki Rhino Saryn are the beast three frames for reviving teams ash comes in fourth place. But my reason for using vanguard helm is as followed when i am in pugs and all of them run this way and that and one happens to die i can rush to him with time to spare and res him because as soon as some one dies and cant res in survival they want the whole team to run to extraction point. If i am Running with a team I can be the one tripping life support why cause if life support is on a AoE hot spot can can take it like a boss instead of the loki. Speaking of Tanking Rhinos Iron skin does not create nearly enough threat but who cares about threat when your teammates are running laps around the map in random places. Edited March 12, 2014 by LurkenLurker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrosslyIncandescent1709 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 K take Rhino speed away then when you run ahead of him and die and beg him to penguin waddle his slow &#! to res you and you die before he gets there and bust a revive or if your out of revives who are you gonna blame. i'd deserve to die if i rush and get downed. that's a lame excuse for inbalance, really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aka_Miso Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 "We finally get the prime more than a forma"? What? I mean more than a forma as like we added a forma and gold look thats what im saying when i say more then a forma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansJurgen Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) you're... you're one of those guys not comprehending that being fast as a tank is a major difference to being the fastest AND a tank right? those who argue against rhino prime being the fastest frame in the game simply posses common sense. Whatever you meant by this. Care to translate for a poor soul who does not understand iternet speak? Also, no more gratuitous catchphrases, please. They neither make you cool, nor impress the girls. Trufax. Edited March 12, 2014 by HansJurgen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirmyBurrito Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 -snip- 1. Rhino has amazing range, so what on earth are you talking about? If Rhino is too far back he's doing something wrong. 2. So your logic is "Squishy frames don't need to be fast, they just need to stick behind the much faster Rhino"? That makes absolutely no sense. Is this your first game featuring these kinds of characters? The Tank-ish characters are slower cuz balance and because they don't NEED the speed since they're more than capable of tanking the hits. Squishy characters need the speed so as to avoid being hit. Are you completely incapable of seeing past how beneficial this is to you to see the problems it causes for frame balance? Also, Lrn2Charge. 3. Boring is not a proper downside to an otherwise horribly imbalanced frame. 4. You're whining about other people's whining. 5. 6. The last thing we need are more friendship doors, especially ones that would allow just one troll/afk'er to screw over a mission. [anti-rush stuff] -Ignored. 7. How does the game punish you for not getting to extraction? You mean the extraction timer? Because other than that you get all the loot you normally would. 8. The punishment for not reviving someone is having one less teammate. Whether or not that is enough to cripple you depends on your general level of play and dependence on teammates. The punishment should stay like that. I'd be rather pissed if I got punished because that one slow guy on the team/the AFK'er got downed and they were too far away for me to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goosmo Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Rhino Prime is faster than Ash. Rhino Prime is faster than Nova. The latter two have no armor, and Rhino is fat. I don't see the logic. Using Vanguard cuts customization? What? Ogris with 540 rockets would like to have a word with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarozian Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) you're... you're one of those guys not comprehending that being fast as a tank is a major difference to being the fastest AND a tank right? those who argue against rhino prime being the fastest frame in the game simply posses common sense. No. Those who argue that tanks are supposed to be slow, are just brain-washed and believe in stereotypes; like all asians are smart, and all black people like rap, and all hispanics love rice and beans, and all white people are greedy and generally self-involved. You are just closed-minded to new things that are out of what you would consider normal. Do you have a problem with something that you would consider a tank, but in reality is something entirely new and different? Edited March 12, 2014 by Zarozian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansJurgen Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) No. Those who argue that tanks are supposed to be slow, are just brain-washed and believe in stereotypes; like all asians are smart, and all black people like rap, and all hispanics love rice and beans, and all white people are greedy and generally self-involved. You are just closed-minded to new things that are out of what you would consider normal. Do you have a problem with something that you would consider a tank, but in reality is something entirely new and different? You don't get it man! Tanks are supposed to be slow like tanks in real life. Durr durr! Disclaimer It is easier for "nugamers" to rewrite word meanings. They have no way of knowing that "tank" is jargon (thus informal) for a character class which role is to draw aggro and soak up damage, a nomenclature which was popularized by MMOS like Ultima, Everquest, games from 20+ years ago. Speed never was a factor. So, they make up their own meaning for words they do not get and then try to force it on everyone else. But, it is tank, and they are heavy and slow!!!! Totally trufax, I haf proof, noob!!!!111one one eleven LOL Edited March 12, 2014 by HansJurgen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarozian Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 You don't get it man! Tanks are supposed to be slow like tanks in real life. Durr durr! Disclaimer Let's totally forget that "tank" is an informal and generic description of a character class which has the role to draw aggro and soak up damage, a nomenclature which was popularized by MMOS like Ultima, Everquest, WOW. Speed never was a factor. But, it is tank, and they are heavy and slow!!!! Totally trufax, I haf proof, noob!!!!111one one eleven LOL Modern day tanks are as fast as race cars now. Also those areMMORPG games. This is a fast pace shooter, with space ninjas, space pirates, and etc. Warframe is a completely new thing on its own. Rhino is not a tank. Lets put it this way. He is the Juggernaut Warframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarozian Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 We'll toss the tanking to Trinity and Valkyr, since every deems Rhino less tanky than those two. Nope don't count on Rhino to revive your &#! anymore, get Trinity or Valkyr to do it. We're all sick of the bullS#&$ you are giving us. Trying to nerf us and all. Forget tank role! WE ARE JUGGERNAUTS NOW!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansJurgen Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) We'll toss the tanking to Trinity and Valkyr, since every deems Rhino less tanky than those two. Nope don't count on Rhino to revive your &#! anymore, get Trinity or Valkyr to do it. We're all sick of the bullS#&$ you are giving us. Trying to nerf us and all. Forget tank role! WE ARE JUGGERNAUTS NOW!!! Agreed. First of all, this is a coop game. Its PVP element is largely nonexistent. As such, character balance is by and large a non issue, so is any attempt to qualify warframes as informal classes from MMOs, spell caster, tank, whatever. DE uses these descriptions because they are familiar to gamers and work well to loosely depict what that warframe is about. Some people, for whatever reason, take it literally, and expect a few words to automatically deliver such and such warframe with such and such abilities and such and such disadvantages, as if that short description was canon to be followed to the letter! Having one dimensional character classes like in MMOs is just silly, since it takes away any value (flexibility and diversity) as well as uniqueness (and flavour) this game (as a coop game) has over the generic PVP/PVE-centric MMO. It is like asking to have a clone of "that one game they played once" dressed in different textures. If someone wants to play "tanks" or "spellcasters" they are free to check out the innumerable fantasy online games out there. I've seen people asking for a "sniper tank" class in a tank simulator. So, nothing surprises me anymore. Edited March 12, 2014 by HansJurgen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirmyBurrito Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 No. Those who argue that tanks are supposed to be slow, are just brain-washed and believe in stereotypes; like all asians are smart, and all black people like rap, and all hispanics love rice and beans, and all white people are greedy and generally self-involved. You are just closed-minded to new things that are out of what you would consider normal. Do you have a problem with something that you would consider a tank, but in reality is something entirely new and different? So believing in balance is being bran-washed? Rhino is one of the most tanky frames in this game, but at the same time Rhino Prime (with vanguard helmet) is one of the fastest frames in this game. How does that make sense from a game balance perspective. High health, shields, armor, AND speed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrosslyIncandescent1709 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) No. Those who argue that tanks are supposed to be slow, are just brain-washed and believe in stereotypes; like all asians are smart, and all black people like rap, and all hispanics love rice and beans, and all white people are greedy and generally self-involved. You are just closed-minded to new things that are out of what you would consider normal. Do you have a problem with something that you would consider a tank, but in reality is something entirely new and different? it's funny how you can know whether i'm full of prejudices just because i disagree with some1. i'm not closed-minded at all, i'm not saying tanks should be slow, i'm just saying they shouldn't be the fastest. there's more than 2 options, no just fastest and slowest, but you fail to comprehend that. Edited March 12, 2014 by MortalSin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cwierz Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 The amount of people who think this is okay is to damn high. The amount of people SUPPORTING this is way to @(*()$ high. The amount of stupidity here, is way to @(*()$ high. If you think this is okay, you really shouldn't be giving feedback about a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrosslyIncandescent1709 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 The amount of people who think this is okay is to damn high. The amount of people SUPPORTING this is way to @(*()$ high. The amount of stupidity here, is way to @(*()$ high. If you think this is okay, you really shouldn't be giving feedback about a game. i wouldn't say it like that but i respect your bland honesty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarozian Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 it's funny how you can know whether i'm full of prejudices just because i disagree with some1. i'm not closed-minded at all, i'm not saying tanks should be slow, i'm just saying they shouldn't be the fastest. there's more than 2 options, no just fastest and slowest, but you fail to comprehend that. It's just a metaphoric comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrosslyIncandescent1709 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 It's just a metaphoric comparison. it's a not, it's a bad ad hominem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow-Blades Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) Ember Prime doesn't even have an extra polarity or any better stats. Makes no sense. Edited March 12, 2014 by Shadow-Blades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarozian Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 it's a not, it's a bad ad hominem I'm trying to be assertive. But it jumps a bit too high over to aggressive from time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trickshaw Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 ...all white people are greedy and generally self-involved. I have never, in my 35 years, heard this stereotype referred to whites as a whole. Specific white demographics? Yes? The entire Caucasian Nation? Wow... That's a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarozian Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) I have never, in my 35 years, heard this stereotype referred to whites as a whole. Specific white demographics? Yes? The entire Caucasian Nation? Wow... That's a new one. Again it's just a stereotype. Though it's commonly referred to the rednecks rather than whites in general. Edited March 12, 2014 by Zarozian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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