Why Founders Pack Exclusivity Is Hard To Defend

[(PSN)MyTagForHalo]

When the founders program began back in open beta, there was a total of one tileset(corpus ship), a fistful of enemy types, and less than half as many weapons and warframes as we do now. Bugs were everywhere (flying cargo crates anyone?) and this was all run by an independent developer.

That's right, Digital Extremes has NO parent company to support it. So in the case Warframe had crash and burned, Founder money would have evaporated.

So no, don't say all founders had a safe deal.

First of all, i didnt say ALL founders had a safe deal. I said only those who has bought it over the course of the past few months had a safe deal. Those founders who supported it from the beginning took a risk. 

 

 

 

They don't care. They want. they demand. They scream and whine. When others whine back in mock, they cry. When others try to find reasoned arguments, they insult. When others insult, they run away like all good bullies only to slink back out when they think anyone strong enough to argue with them has gone away.

 

This thread is not about truth. This thread is about wants. People feel cheated, so they are demanding things they haven't earned.

 

Arguments have been raised, debated and settled in the course of this thread. The items are not coming back. But many don't care. They still want them and to hell with the consequences. After all, if DE falters from lack of support, they will just go find another game to mess up. Not their problem.

 

 

This argument goes both ways. The reason they said it would never come back is because people such as yourself feel like they were getting cheated. I tried to make a reasonable argument, i really did. I tend to be on the fence about this whole thing. You however looked past this and picked out one single point that really had not much to do with my point at all. 

 

Do not complain about people insulting others and starting arguments and then go and instigate them...

 

May i also request lnks to .Gif's? I simply cannot get the full trollyness factor out of a youtube video that i cannot hear. I could use some entertainment at work. 

 

 Edit:

 

So sorry that i opposed your views of your precious items. Constructive critisizm is useful. To be completely honest the only true reason any of you have seemed to come up with (in regards to remaining exclusive) Is that:  You do not wish to give up your exclusive elitism.

 

When most games give founders items, they add items that do not add anything to the game, nothing is different, they are show off items.

 

This gear however is not cosmetic. It adds to the game. It is worth affinity.  i agree that pretty much all of the solutions given (other than just giving affinity) is a poor idea. If they add the items to the drop table as a different version, that doesnt solve anything unless they count for the same affinity that is lost (and counts nothing towards those who already own the items) 

 

If you wish to add anything else that has no purpose i nthis thread (like your pointless spouts followed by a video) Please, do not hesitate to PM me, You and i can have a sane discussion over in a corner rather than cluttering this thread 

Edited March 19, 2014 by (PS4)MyTagForHalo

[(PSN)Shadow_Of_Hunhow]

I understand that my motives aren't exactly noble, but I guarantee that a lot of people bought the founders pack for the same reason.

Also, what I meant by I just want the frame, is I don't care about founders status, or any special title, I'm happy throwing great Dev's some money for a great game. I've already put 400+ dollars into the game because I love it and want to help make it better, I just hate how us PS4 users got completely and totally shafted on the deal.

I wouldn't say a word if I missed it if I played PC, or if it was on PS4 and I didn't get it. But fact is, is that I had no possible chance to get it, even though I got the PS4 right when it came out, and that Warframe was the first game I downloaded and second I played.

Regardless of whether or not we get it, I'll still play this untill my thumbs fall off, and I'll enjoy every minute of it.

I apologize for not being clearer, I'm terrible at putting my thoughts into words.

[DJ_Redwire]

Also, what I meant by I just want the frame, is I don't care about founders status, or any special title, I'm happy throwing great Dev's some money for a great game. I've already put 400+ dollars into the game because I love it and want to help make it better

 

If that's truly how you feel, then missing one or two opportunities long since past shouldn't bother you at all. There are many opportunities currently and will be many more in the future for you to support DE for their great game. Why do you have to go back in time for fulfill the same desire you can fulfill right now and even more so in the coming weeks and months?

 

Because otherwise, that just tells me you want X and Y and could care less about supporting DE.

[(PSN)Shadow_Of_Hunhow]

If that's truly how you feel, then missing one or two opportunities long since past shouldn't bother you at all. There are many opportunities currently and will be many more in the future for you to support DE for their great game. Why do you have to go back in time for fulfill the same desire you can fulfill right now and even more so in the coming weeks and months?

Because otherwise, that just tells me you want X and Y and could care less about supporting DE.

Why does "missing an opportunity" bother me? Because people who played it on the PS4 the day it came out weren't even given a chance at it. So to us, we didn't miss it, we had it taken before it was even in arm's reach. And to top it off, the info and everything is in the Codex, just sitting there like "look at this awesome frame you could never get, and never will!". This is the only reason I even have an issue with it. All PS4 players can do with money now is buy plat, there's no prime access, and I have already bought most cosmetics, have most weapons, and most frames and all sentinels, so why just buy plat when all I can use it for is mod trading? Edited March 19, 2014 by (PS4)SCP-100912

[DJ_Redwire]

Because I also want that frame, my favorite frame is Excaliber and I would love to have the prime version. I believe it is possible to want both, isn't it?

 

One might think so, but riddle me this:

 

If DE released all of the Founders exclusives tomorrow for free, would you be upset? 

 

 

No? Of course not. An awesome frame and cool weapons for free? Who the heck wouldn't want that?

 

But apparently you are intent on supporting DE with your money in order to obtain the Founders items. You just lost that opportunity. Does that make you upset or no?

 

Such an interesting loop we've entered.

Edited March 19, 2014 by DJ_Redwire

[(PSN)Shadow_Of_Hunhow]

One might think so, but riddle me this:

 

If DE released all of the Founders exclusives tomorrow for free, would you be upset? 

 

 

No? Of course not. An awesome frame and cool weapons for free? Who the heck wouldn't want that?

 

But apparently you are intent on supporting DE with your money in order to obtain the Founders items. You just lost that opportunity. Does that make you upset or no?

 

Such an interesting loop we've entered.

Actually, I would, because I know that the amount of people who would be downright furious would be more than any nerf complaint to date, and because I wouldn't feel right getting something other's paid hundreds for, for free. If it came to the marketplace for one day, and it costed 150 or 200 dollars and it came with all the founders items, I'd happily buy it. If it was free, I'd take that as going too far to appease us "whiners" and not get it. Believe it or not it's the truth.

[(PSN)MyTagForHalo]

One might think so, but riddle me this:

 

If DE released all of the Founders exclusives tomorrow for free, would you be upset? 

 

 

No? Of course not. An awesome frame and cool weapons for free? Who the heck wouldn't want that?

 

But apparently you are intent on supporting DE with your money in order to obtain the Founders items. You just lost that opportunity. Does that make you upset or no?

 

Such an interesting loop we've entered.

Who on earth said it needed to be free?

 

People keep stating that they would pay for it. Which is why i dont quite understand why founders are so upset over the whole deal. If they want to pay what you payed, why not?

 

Only answer is that people will feel cheated because they lost their exclusive elitism 

[DJ_Redwire]

Actually, I would, because I know that the amount of people who would be downright furious would be more than any nerf complaint to date, and because I wouldn't feel right getting something other's paid hundreds for, for free. If it came to the marketplace for one day, and it costed 150 or 200 dollars and it came with all the founders items, I'd happily buy it. If it was free, I'd take that as going too far to appease us "whiners" and not get it. Believe it or not it's the truth.

 

And that's very honorable of you, and I sincerely mean that. But unfortunately it would appear that the majority of people do not share that quality. I guarantee the population of people who would be overjoyed that they were given something for free rather than having to pay for it would be vastly larger than those who are disappointed they missed out on an opportunity to support DE by paying in a lump sum. Because they can already do that. You can walk into the market and buy $250 worth of plat and do the exact same thing.  

[RootVI]

Why does "missing an opportunity" bother me? Because people who played it on the PS4 the day it came out weren't even given a chance at it. So to us, we didn't miss it, we had it taken before it was even in arm's reach. And to top it off, the info and everything is in the Codex, just sitting there like "look at this awesome frame you could never get, and never will!". This is the only reason I even have an issue with it. All PS4 players can do with money now is buy plat, there's no prime access, and I have already bought most cosmetics, have most weapons, and most frames and all sentinels, so why just buy plat when all I can use it for is mod trading?

Problem is founders package is a BETA thing, the ps4 version of warframe has been launched and is not in BETA anymore.

 

And for all the people who say PC is still in BETA, why cant we have it, would you demand a train company to move a train schedule back 30 mins because you don't get out of bed early enough.

[(PSN)MyTagForHalo]

Problem is founders package is a BETA thing, the ps4 version of warframe has been launched and is not in BETA anymore.

 

And for all the people who say PC is still in BETA, why cant we have it, would you demand a train company to move a train schedule back 30 mins because you don't get out of bed early enough.

 

Hardly the case. Its closer to having a sale on a popular item from 6-10 PM while the store is only open til 5pm  to people who dont live in a certain area. The product is there, it exists, but you have no ability to buy it. 

 

Oh, i forgot.. The game is still in beta..

Edited March 19, 2014 by (PS4)MyTagForHalo

[(PSN)PJZERO2]

That's not true i said before that people would pay if they cant get it free from the void only problem with that is you can get all other primes from the void for free on ps4.

[(PSN)MyTagForHalo]

That's not true i said before that people would pay if they cant get it free from the void only problem with that is you can get all other primes from the void for free on ps4.

*facepalm* and threads like these are the reason people are getting upset..

 

This is like saying we should be able to craft misa-syndanas and titan prime extractors instead of needing to purchase a access pack..

 

The point we are trying to get across is that we should have to pay for it (which i think is what you were trying to say.. i think..)  But we should not be able to farm them..  If you want to have them for free.. your on your own for that one.. 

Edited March 19, 2014 by (PS4)MyTagForHalo

[(PSN)Shadow_Of_Hunhow]

And that's very honorable of you, and I sincerely mean that. But unfortunately it would appear that the majority of people do not share that quality. I guarantee the population of people who would be overjoyed that they were given something for free rather than having to pay for it would be vastly larger than those who are disappointed they missed out on an opportunity to support DE by paying in a lump sum. Because they can already do that. You can walk into the market and buy $250 worth of plat and do the exact same thing.

I know what you mean, and honestly I can see something like this happening if they keep getting so much complaining about it. I don't know how many founders there are, but I'm sure the number of PS4 players that are, or would be if they knew about it, outraged about missing out on it would be greater. I understand legally they can't do much, but they still could for PS4, because they never elaborated that the pack or items within would be released on PS4. That statement alone would get them out of just about any court case that possibly arise as a result.

[Seox]

I know what you mean, and honestly I can see something like this happening if they keep getting so much complaining about it. I don't know how many founders there are, but I'm sure the number of PS4 players that are, or would be if they knew about it, outraged about missing out on it would be greater. I understand legally they can't do much, but they still could for PS4, because they never elaborated that the pack or items within would be released on PS4. That statement alone would get them out of just about any court case that possibly arise as a result.

 

Go read the monkey's paw or something.

 

Tired of hearing corrupted wish/deal with the devil solutions.

 

 

Never available again.

Not on PS4 or PC or SNES or Xbox fifty-two.

 

Never available again.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Seox

[DJ_Redwire]

I understand legally they can't do much, but they still could for PS4, because they never elaborated that the pack or items within would be released on PS4. That statement alone would get them out of just about any court case that possibly arise as a result.

Well I would just keep in mind that I think De's whole goal here is to not go to court at all, whether or not they could defend themselves easily. But I digress.

Also for when I was talking about Founders being released fro free earlier - purely hypothetical, as most of this discussion is. I think we can all agree safely that that would be silly beyond reason.

Edited March 19, 2014 by DJ_Redwire

[(PSN)fingernageldreck]

I really dont get whats so hard to accept about the fact that founders items remain exclusive... Seriously get over it! Ask DE for a exclusive toy for us ps4 players but leave that founder stuff. DE would be in a crap position if they re-release it.

Just stop with these daily posts/threads. It would cause too much anger.

PS4 exclusive stuff isnt a good solution, since we all saw that that exclusive stuff ends in drama, but in this case you can hope on the support of sony. They will repeat this thing with you every day you can count on that they already do, and maybe DE says ok one day. And then you can say we didnt touched founders stuff and now we have our own bling bling. But wanting that DE breaks their promise to the very first customers of this game is unfair(but again some founders deserved it. The one that supported the game in the very early state, but the guys that just jumped on it the very last days dont deserve it that much since it was clear to see at that point warframe is going to be a great game).

[(PSN)MyTagForHalo]

-snip-

I would like to see the fine print on that. 

Nowhere does it say that they cant release it on another platform.

 

No one is making you read a thread. Especially one where you know what it contains before reading,

 

 

Well I would just keep in mind that I think De's whole goal here is to not go to court at all, whether or not they could defend themselves easily. But I digress.

Also for when I was talking about Founders being released fro free earlier - purely hypothetical, as most of this discussion is. I think we can all agree safely that that would be silly beyond reason.

Lol, if someone decided to try and sue them for a stupid founder's pack, then they would have some serious issues..

 

-snip-

I personally enjoy how this thread finally gets to another civil point in it's life, and then someone like you comes in here. 

 

Honestly you should know what this thread looks like without clicking the link. If you dont want to hear it, dont open it :D

Edited March 19, 2014 by (PS4)MyTagForHalo

[PoorCensored]

No, that's not a solution. They can give you an Excal-Prime-named-something-else with the-pimpest-skin-that-ever-did-pimp and they can let the Founders keep their Excalibur Prime which they paid for. There is NO solution that involves taking Excalibur Prime, or his skin, or the weapons, away from Founders. Like I've said, I'm completely down for you guys getting a Derelict version (and even doing derelict versions of the newer frames). I think it'd look cool, different, while being unique. Of course, they couldn't make it only available to non-Founders (as there's nothing Founders did wrong to be kept from getting a frame), but at least it'd be an Excal Prime-sort of- that non-Founders could get. That's the only way I'm down for Excal Prime being released, if it's something different and new. Derelict version is different and new.

 

 

Creating a new non-founder or Excalibur Derelict warframe isn't an answer either. In the former, you split the community wider when Founders are upset they *can't* get something potentially cool and awesome because, well, they paid a whole bunch of money to help fund the game (talk about unfair...). In the later, if its any good looking, people will want an entire set of Derelict warframes...

 

Well, and the legalities behind it.  And the betrayal factor.

 

Both of which are valid.  Which is why DE answered that their "feet are over the fire" in the relevant live stream.

 

Unless you a lawyer, let's avoid talking about legalities. I think the EULA stated that DE could wipe away all items that all players had, and they would not break their word if they didn't bring the items back. (I'm not suggesting they do that, I'm not say for fact they could do that. But, let's just stay away from talking about legalities.)

 

As for betrayal, again, sometimes people make mistakes. They promise something they shouldn't, and sometimes the best option is to admit they were wrong and break their promise. (I'm not saying that's DE's best option, just that 'keep your word' isn't always the best option.)

 

So, if I go into a pizza shop today and ask what last weeks specials were...then demand I get those specials instead of today's specials..simply because I didn't inform myself of the deal?

Perhaps I should proceed to sue the pizza place for not calling me on my phone, mailing me priority letters and have an employee friend me on Facebook to keep me up to date on what is going on in the world?

Your logic is broken. The founders package was overextended for a super long time, warframe has made the front page on steam many times and has been talked about since like 2011 or long before.

Don't try to blame your ignorance on the rest of the world, sometimes it pays to inform yourself, we are living in the age of instant gratification in all things and of those things information is paramount.

Sorry to say, but you're barking up a tree that died months ago.

#slashdash4life

 

Fallacious. Real world goods suffer from scarcity. Virtual goods, for all practical purposes, do not.

 

Real world stores have to deal with physical good management: food items that may go bad if not sold, accidental over shipments, etc.

 

Virtual world stores do not. For all practical purposes, there can be as many Excalibur Primes in the game as there are players.

 

One might think so, but riddle me this:

 

If DE released all of the Founders exclusives tomorrow for free, would you be upset? 

 

 

No? Of course not. An awesome frame and cool weapons for free? Who the heck wouldn't want that?

 

But apparently you are intent on supporting DE with your money in order to obtain the Founders items. You just lost that opportunity. Does that make you upset or no?

 

Such an interesting loop we've entered.

 

It should be noted that I think exclusive items are bad, period. That said, I've not said that the DE's best move would be to make the Founder's items available for free. Honestly, at the moment, I think the least of all evils would be a patronage/sponsorship system (like I described way up thread), where Founders could give X number of copies to their friends, or propose giving the items to a non-Founder in some public venue where the Founders could vote on it.

 

But, that's an opinion.

 

And that's very honorable of you, and I sincerely mean that. But unfortunately it would appear that the majority of people do not share that quality. I guarantee the population of people who would be overjoyed that they were given something for free rather than having to pay for it would be vastly larger than those who are disappointed they missed out on an opportunity to support DE by paying in a lump sum. Because they can already do that. You can walk into the market and buy $250 worth of plat and do the exact same thing.  

 

 

I don't recall reading about anyone, in this thread, saying that DE should give all the Founder's items away for free.

Edited March 19, 2014 by PoorCensored

[(PSN)fingernageldreck]

Dude its a new thread almost every day about this thing. There is not a single argument that havent been said already. The only thing this threads will bring up is a even bigger split between pc and ps4.

There was also statements by DE about it in a few out of the houndred threads that exist about this issue and they have clearly said sorry guys it wont come back. I mean asking twice for something dont hurt,but everyday the same thing with the same old arguments? Maybe this is your first thread about it, then have fun with it. But tomorrow we will see another genius open a thread called "hey guys i have a great idea! What about DE re-releasing excalibur prime? Lolz lolz twinker twinker".

Then they say its unfair that they have no access to excalibur prime, founders wave around with their bling blings.

And before this thread gets old we will see a new one "hey how about re-releasing excalibur prime".

I mean seriously, they said no. End of story. I can still enjoy the game, and life goes on.

Edited March 19, 2014 by (PS4)fingernageldreck

[(PSN)PJZERO2]

Take Excalibur prime out our codex it would make everything better in a way.

[(PSN)fingernageldreck]

Take Excalibur prime out our codex it would make everything better in a way.

This is a very possible solution in my eyes. So they dont rub it in players faces that want to complete their collection but cant have the founders stuff.

[Havenbrook]

Go read the monkey's paw or something.

 

Tired of hearing corrupted wish/deal with the devil solutions.

 

 

Never available again.

Not on PS4 or PC or SNES or Xbox fifty-two.

 

Never available again.

I couldnt help but look at this picture and draw a red box around "HELP SHAPE WARFRAME" and "BEING A FOUNDER HAS ITS PRIVILEGES"

[(PSN)MyTagForHalo]

I couldnt help but look at this picture and draw a red box around "HELP SHAPE WARFRAME" and "BEING A FOUNDER HAS ITS PRIVILEGES"

HELP SHAPE WARFRAME - Counsel Access

 

BEING A FOUNDER HAS ITS PRIVILEGES - yup  and people show it off every day.

 

Im really not seeing what you guys are seeing.. I see a lot of inferring..

[CandyDragon]

Im really not seeing what you guys are seeing.. I see a lot of inferring..

Its likely the part that says "never to be released again"

[(PSN)MyTagForHalo]

-snip-

And yet, you post it in what now probably can be considered a mega thread. Your point is justified in every upstarting thread. But complaining about other new threads here really is not helping any.