Why Archive The Sticky?

[Khunvyel]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/53259-dont-even-nerf-thread-till-you-own-it-please-give-it-a-read/

 

This was a wonderful read and it was very well worth the sticky. Could we have it back by chance? Pwueeeze?

[CaptainPeanut]

I agree.

[Verryn]

Near year old topic. You could polish it up and post it again I guess.

[ObviousLee]

i agree, repolish and re-issue would be a fantastic idea.

[Khunvyel]

I shall attempt this endeavour later today then, and hopefully recreate something that would be worth it. Those a big shoes to fill, considering the sheer awesomeness of said topic.

[Khunvyel]

I'd like to "betatest" the attempt to create a topic worth to be stickyfied by posting my draft in here first, and if I get enough positive feedback, and after editing it I'm willing to give it a shot. Fire away!

I adore the original version, and I tried to not blatantly copy it, even though it had a very easy going, direct and humorous flair.

I feel it is too long, even though I tried to cover everything necessary and still keep it short :/

_____________________________________________________

 

Topic title: Before rambling about buff/nerf/overpowered, please read this:

 

So you want to write a topic how you feel about a specific weapon being completely overtuned or the worst pile of crap? Do you have BACON or CANDY in your topic? Because that it was it takes in order to write proper feedback capable of withstanding any amount of scrutiny - you need SUBSTANCE to base your opinion off. So let us work down the most obvious things together! :)

 

 

    1) >> [WEAPON] is way too weak! Buff it already!

You back up this statement with... what? Numbers? Secret favouritism? I will not imply this is your dearest weapon and you just want to keep using it. Think about how this weapon was obtained, if it has other gateways before players can claim it. Reinforce your arguments with more than just numbers, and present it in a constructive, well written manner - then you are much likely to get a good response from the rest of the community. Some weapons are intended to be on the low end, some are not.

 

    2) >> Nerf [WEAPON] ! Eet ees tu ztronk!

Have you tested it yourself? Are you seeing people with it ploughing through content? Is it one of those fishy "friends" ? Are you just crunching numbers? Always keep in mind the weapon(s) you use(d) which sparked your awareness that this new thing is so totally OP. Sometimes, if a weapon feels way to good, it might be intended by design - or there are other factors measured in there... Mod quality, Forma number, player skill... etc. Just saying.

 

    3) >> But when I just compare the stats...

Don't. Fetch and use it before you pass judgement, or get well rounded opinions of others first who own that weapon. That accuracy looks great? Well, the vertical recoil could whack your screen around really bad, despite the bullets having little horizontal spread. Shotguns looking like they can wreck everything? Only when you are up close because of damage falloff (except for Drakgoon) and only when all pellets hit. The list of "hidden values" is big.

 

    4) >> And what about that guy in my group tearing everything up with it?

Do you know how many Formas have been spent for that weapon? How many and how good the mods installed are? Do you even HAVE some of those mods to begin with, and ranked them up equally high? Could it be that person was outright better at playing the game than you? Don't measure something when you don't know all variables. There is only one way to be certain about it: get crackin' and get testin' !

 

    5) >> No, no, believe me, DPS charts show this weapon is killer!

Do you even Warframe? This is not an MMO where the majority of content is about auto-locks and 10 minute fights against a single target. DPS does not include the following: your miss chance  |  your ability to hit weak pots  |  your "uptime" of attacking  |  your ammunition shortage  |  weapon recoil+accuracy and how you deal with it  |  shotgun damage falloff  |  projectile travel time  |  time you spent trying to get your rear off the floor and into safety after that group of Ancient Disrupters played table tennis with you  |  And most importantly: it does not tell you if this weapon would be SUITABLE for you! Can you constantly pull the trigger and have 100% accuracy at the end of the mission? I think not. DPS charts are a measurement of the gear's POTENTIAL in a perfect environment - which doesn't exist in this game.

 

    6) >> Okay dude, so tell me how I should USE those DPS values?

I'd love to say " just don't use 'em " but it is a legitimate question. What do you want to do? Putzing around for starmap completion, boss farming for that one elusive mod, or going in for the long Survival / Defense runs and Void Vaults?

Only because a weapon cranks out supercalifragilisticexpialidocious DPS on paper, does not mean it is required, or fitting, or applicable to your scenario. Primarily, opt out to have fun and be comfortable with whatever you are using. No use for an Über-bow you can't handle. That Boltor Prime looking spiffy? Reconsider if you love your hitscan weapons at long-range engagements.

 

    7) >> So I just picked it up, and wow, I WAS RIGHT! WAY OP! SCREW YOU!

Compared to... what? Vasto vs Lato? Latron vs Mk1-Braton? Drakgoon vs Strun? Some weapons require different approaches to use. Can't compare apples with oranges. Penta does loads of damage, but you need to aim a lobbed projectile and you can blow yourself up with it too! Was your previous Weapon rank 30, but the new one was so shiny that you outleveled that? You can only compare equal ranked weapons to each other. If it was a waste, at least you got mastery exp.

 

    8) >> There is the Soma and...

Hold it, I know what comes next. It FEELS powerful, but you need to understand why:

You get it via a simple blueprint from the market, once you reach Mastery Rank 6. No grinding in the Void. No Dojo Research. It also ships with two V polarity slots, which is a LOT. Try that Soma without using those polarities, or perhaps even just one, and you already see a difference. It also depends where you are using it. Running missions around the starmap? Sure, you can get away with that. Ammo efficiency is not one of the Soma's strength however, like any gun sporting a high rate of fire.

 

    9) >> I have Weapon A and B, and while everyone says B is better, I feel like A is.

Perhaps you lack certain mods to make the weapon really shine? Perhaps it is not as fitting for you? Perhaps you are not using it in the situations where it is designated to be superior? Perhaps this weapon requires you to re-think how you are running and gunning in Warframe? A popular example would be hitscan vs. traveltime projectiles. There are many issues with projectile weapons, and not everyone likes them. BUT... it can absolutely be the case that you made weapon A more functional in your hands.

 

    10) >> So much text, and you still didn't tell me how to evaluate advantages or deficits...

Because that is not MY part to do. That is YOURS. I am not here to tell how YOU should play Warframe, and neither should ANYONE ELSE. Weapons have tradeoffs, melee and firearm alike. It is your decision which you pick over others. It is your call which combination of weapons are going to suit your personal needs. The only thing I can do is give you some hints about how to test a weapon properly, and this will also help you create a good feedback topic:

• Level it to 30. If it really turns out to be not your cup of tea, at least you got Mastery points.
• If you really want to draw proper comparisons when Polarity slots vary in number and type... simply don't use them! Yes, you heard me. DO NOT put mods into fitting slots should they don't match on both weapons, because this will automatically dilute the performance when you maxed the weapon.
• Test it under identical conditions. Farming Vay Hek for Neurodes or Alad V for Neural Sensors is no comparison to high level Defense/Survival Missions or struggle with those Dragon Keys to reach an Orokin Vault. Furthermore, test it under conditions YOU are comfortable with first. What use is a weapon everyone praises, if YOU do not get along with it?
• After that, give yourself a push and bring it to the edge. Get yourself in a position where you have a very hard time and bound to struggle, if you are one of the mid-level players. Sometimes it is the weapon which makes a difference. Sometimes it is the player. Sometimes going solo does that, sometimes getting over yourself and hop into long ongoing missions will make that weapon shine in a light you didn't anticipate.

 

    11) >> Are you FINALLY done by now...?!

Almost. Remember this is a PvE and co-op focused game. Your only job is to not slack. Don't need to set a record every time. Do you feel bad because someone rushes ahead and kerbooms everything? You shouldn't. It does NOT matter if you want to play big parts to succeed or not. It only matters to get the job done. Perhaps next time, you'll be the one saving the day?

Other players cannot hurt you. It does not matter if you dealt most damage or received least damage or are the most accurate shooter, as long as the mission doesn't fail. Everything else is your ego or other people trying to force their version of Warframe onto you. Don't let either of that happen. Let us behave like a group, working together, and not like rabid narcissistic egomaniacs.

 ~ T.E.A.M - Tenno empowered altruistic missioning ~

Edited March 21, 2014 by Khunvyel

[Khunvyel]

Is the draft so bad that people won't even throw a negative comment on it? :/

[Pure]

I always thought it was a troll post.  Not really helpful, it just stated common sense.

[ObviousLee]

i liked it. and pure, common sense is more than lacking these days =/

[Khunvyel]

Thank the Lotus you came to pick up the common sense line. else something like this could have happened;

 

And a troll post? with that many upvotes? Elevated to be worth a sticky? I think that didn't really involve much trolling.

[Khunvyel]

*a last bump to get either way of feedback for my revision, three upvotes doesn't sound like it would make the grade*