Retune *all* The Frames! (11/19: Wildfire)

[Archwizard]

Maim is not a hard CC and it is not supposed to be a spammable CC.

It is a damage multiplier like AMD.

IT SHOULD DO FINISHER DAMAGE on those stacked energy. CP dependent is no good for damage multiplier ability.

instead of Slash Status and flat values, just make it a Percentage of Health. bleeds them out at a fair rate at all Levels. makes it less stupid at Low Levels, but not useless at higher ones.

 

You do know the bleed does Finisher damage, right?

 

At any rate, the main burst scales to a percentage of slain enemies' health; having the main blast deal Finisher damage (ignoring shields and armor) on top of that just means you can kill a heavy or two and OHK every other enemy within range at zero additional effort. It would be the single-most powerful ultimate in the game, and no, the time spent building up to it does not make up for it (you have to build up to Shadows of the Dead and Absorb too, they're still not guaranteed one-shot skills).

 

The rule I set in the OP is that scaling attacks and Finisher damage should be separated. That's why.

 

Just gonna put a little idea I had for Hysteria here (can't see the OP, mobile sucks)

- replace abject invincibility with preventing Valkyr from going below 2 health, like QT

- Innate life steal can stay

- Buff base damage of claws to 350

- Innate Berserker effect

- Have the combo counter tick upwards at 1 per sec while Hysteria is active, each hit with the claws adds 2 to the counter (affected by power strength)

- damage is multiplied by how much health Valkyr has lost (like Chroma's fury), capped at 800

- Innate stagger on hit

- Using Paralysis while Hysteria is active increases the range the lower her health is.

Either have the stats scale off mods like Exalted blade, or ADD the stats of your melee weapon to Hysteria's base stats. Not entirely sure of the implications of that other one yet, so I'll default to the EB style of things first. Also, should Hysteria be a constant drain or a one time cast?

 

Actually... most of that's already in the OP! Aside from the increased damage, innate Berserker, passive combo count-up and Paralysis buff.

Which, the first two of those would naturally occur if you could add the mods of your melee weapon anyway.

 

Hysteria already adds the stats of the melee weapon - selectively. Of course, the issue is that its forces players to use a specific kind of weapon. Swapping fully to the EB formula would be much more efficient.

 

Someone is jelly about Rhino being able to keep up with the rest of the team.

 

At 10-15% bonus speed, you'd still be able to keep up on a base Rhino.

 

The fact that you're upset I'm suggesting to remove just the excess speaks to you, not me.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Archwizard

[taiiat]

You do know the bleed does Finisher damage, right?

it's still a static value. that means it fairly quickly becomes not very effective at Damaging Enemies, Armor or not.

52.5 Finisher Damage per second isn't going to Kill Enemies. hell, it will only tickle most of them.

i imagine the response will be that at higher Levels that you're supposed to tickle the Enemies for almost nothing for a century and then use the Damage Pulse. (i realize that you can Kill Enemies through other means much more quickly, but the Ability should be capable of Killing some things eventually on it's own to collect Damage IMO).

meh. if the Ability has an offensive side to it, i don't see why it should be Overpowered at low Levels (yet another low Level mapwipe) yet become just a Cosmetic at high Levels.

also, note that i wasn't talking about the Damage Pulse. i was only talking about the Slash Aura. the Damage Pulse is fine as it is, since it's totaled up over time.

i guess i wasn't particularly specific about that.

Edited August 25, 2015 by taiiat

[Volinus7]

You do know the bleed does Finisher damage, right?

At any rate, the main burst scales to a percentage of slain enemies' health; having the main blast deal Finisher damage (ignoring shields and armor) on top of that just means you can kill a heavy or two and OHK every other enemy within range at zero additional effort. It would be the single-most powerful ultimate in the game, and no, the time spent building up to it does not make up for it (you have to build up to Shadows of the Dead and Absorb too, they're still not guaranteed one-shot skills).

The rule I set in the OP is that scaling attacks and Finisher damage should be separated. That's why.

If you kill one lvl90 napalm you get 48000 stacked damage for maim. Kill 10 of them to get 480k.

Use that 480k on one napalm you only inflict 6500 damage not even 1/10 of max HP.

The hardship of taking down 10napalms go away in one moment.

Finisher damage means it deals full 480k damage.

No, it's not scale 1/1 lvl90Napalm has more than 48k HP.

Bleed got reduced by armor it's not finisher damage. Its damage is base on the slash damage that proc it.

Slash damage obviously got reduced by armor.

My bad lol bleed dmg calculated before armor reduction.

Well my point is the main blast not the bleeding aura anyway.

Maim is uber weak at high lvl. You have no defense in day form. And not a worthy Spammable CC it just wrecks the concept if you use it that way.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Volinus7

[taiiat]

If you kill one lvl90 napalm you get 48000 stacked damage for maim. Kill 10 of them to get 480k.

Use that 480k on one napalm you only inflict 6500 damage not even 1/10 of max HP.

er.

480,000 * 0.5(Alloy Armor) == 240,000

240,000 / ~8.4482(the Armor Damage Reduction a Lv90 Napalm has) == ~28,408.3227

28,408.3227 * 1.25(Cloned Flesh) == ~35,510.4034

if you have reason to think otherwise, by all means.

Edited August 25, 2015 by taiiat

[Volinus7]

er.

480,000 * 0.5(Alloy Armor) == 240,000

240,000 / ~8.4482(the Armor Damage Reduction a Lv90 Napalm has) == ~28,408.3227

28,408.3227 * 1.25(Cloned Flesh) == ~35,510.4034

if you have reason to think otherwise, by all means.

I tested it in simulacrum. My numbers are real.

If you want to know the truth try it yourself.

My Equinox is at 100%STR btw.

Due to enemies lvl scaling in wikia

Lvl90 Napalm has 7000 alloy armor

The net armor is 10500 vs slash damage

Follow the formula you get 0.02% damage susceptibility

From 480000 damage you will get 9600 damage to pierce the armor

It's just a rough calculation but quite close.

This formula should be more precise but whatever i have the real number from the tests anyway.

For perfect calculation you have to add body part multiplier etc. as well.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Volinus7

[taiiat]

-snip-

something seems off about the accepted Armor Formula, that's a problem.

the expected Damage from Alloy Armor on top of Cloned Flesh at that Level was ~3.6x higher than the actual result.

(also something funky went on, the first time i shot the Enemy, i hit for either 167 or 187, every shot after that however, hit for 23... might also be something funky with the game).

however, accounting for that, you still should have dealt ~9700.

[FelisImpurrator]

i assume another person who is emotionally attached to the free upgrade of the Vanguard Helmet and is butthurt that someone knows that objectively is way out of bounds compared to the other Stats for the rest of the Helmets.

Could make them all more awesome to match Vanguard. There's still something to be said about the sheer entertainment value of Rhino moving at the speed of sound.

 

...that said, I really would still like the old Arcane effects rereleased to everyone as some kind of Corrupted Module, not cosmetic-locked but freely accessible from a special Infested/Derelict mission.

[FelisImpurrator]

At any rate, the main burst scales to a percentage of slain enemies' health; having the main blast deal Finisher damage (ignoring shields and armor) on top of that just means you can kill a heavy or two and OHK every other enemy within range at zero additional effort. It would be the single-most powerful ultimate in the game, and no, the time spent building up to it does not make up for it (you have to build up to Shadows of the Dead and Absorb too, they're still not guaranteed one-shot skills).

 

The rule I set in the OP is that scaling attacks and Finisher damage should be separated. That's why.

Hm. I didn't know that was how Finisher worked, specifically. So... yeah, no, on second thought that's a terrible idea.

 

But... isn't the damage pulse still hit so hard by armor that it ends up being one of those "4CP or mild annoyance" abilities like most damage? Granted, that's a problem with armor scaling, but before it's fixed there might be a call for SOME band-aid.

 

That said, I have noticed a distinctly odd thing about how the charge builds. It seems that killing things with weaker damage sources (i.e., less overkill) - like the bleed proc of Maim itself, or a weak weapon - adds less charge than you would get with a powerful oneshot. That, or the charge is based on the enemy's current instead of maximum health. I've played Equinox long enough to know that crap guns simply charge Maim a hell of a lot more slowly, enemy health scaling be damned... and that, I think, is a problem.

it's still a static value. that means it fairly quickly becomes not very effective at Damaging Enemies, Armor or not.

52.5 Finisher Damage per second isn't going to Kill Enemies. hell, it will only tickle most of them.

Also, I still think A) the DoT should be persistent, possibly with the proc refreshed infrequently, and B) the ticks should scale.

 

Oh, and. FINALLY found the bloody thread I posted in.

[Cytobel]

I've already added a post on a thought reguarding Volt (my 'Frame, so I realize the issues inherent with him yet it's probably just fanboying) at:  https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/517444-dear-de-the-volt-rework/

 

However, the essence is this:  I would add functional effect (more "active" than a passive) to the individual 'Frames, be it automatic Tumor generation for enemies near (~2m) Saryn, Energy Regen to an Ember standing in fire (why isn't she immune to a pile of EMBERS?), or an overcharging mechanic to Volt's skills (press-n-hold charge up of each move).

 

For me, there is something of an element of individuality needed in game, beyond straight numbers or skill synergy.  Each 'Frame needs it's own quiet voice, that it can express itself with.

 

I also want to feel like I can really take any 'Frame to end game and be a viable addition to a team.  Not sure how realistic that is, but...

 

(Note:  End game means that point where raw damage alone will no longer prove enough to kill foes, and is currently found starting around level 130-ish enemies.)

 

P.S., I agree that an "Augment" means "something added to", rather than "that one thing that makes this skill worth using"; my only concern is when the Augment BECOMES the play style.

 

In some cases (coughSHOCKINGSPEEDcough) this is because it makes something add a touch of needed control while blending better with the existing skills set, but then we look at Augments like Sonic Fracture, where you'd be kind of stupid NOT to use them at late game.

 

I guess I'm saying that I'd like to see each move brought to working order as part of a complete kit BEFORE Augments become part of the equation.  (sorry for micro-rant)

Edited August 25, 2015 by Cytobel

[taiiat]

Could make them all more awesome to match Vanguard.

...that said, I really would still like the old Arcane effects rereleased to everyone as some kind of Corrupted Module, not cosmetic-locked but freely accessible from a special Infested/Derelict mission.

except many of the others are already very effective at their current Stat Bonuses. Vanguard is just way over that. most of them are 10-15%. a good number are 15%, of a mixture of Power Strength, Efficiency, Range. they make good effect at that point as it is.

Vanguard is just way over that.

since these stats have no real downsides, there's no justification for one to be considerably higher than the rest.

ofcourse, these stats should be pulled from Helmets and some 'Skill Tree' Playstyle options created for each Warframe. including generic ones for a bit of extra of this or that stat, while paying something else (actually paying something this time). as well as including Warframe specific ones, that will affect Abilities directly, Et Cetera.

[FelisImpurrator]

except many of the others are already very effective at their current Stat Bonuses. Vanguard is just way over that. most of them are 10-15%. a good number are 15%, of a mixture of Power Strength, Efficiency, Range. they make good effect at that point as it is.

Vanguard is just way over that.

since these stats have no real downsides, there's no justification for one to be considerably higher than the rest.

ofcourse, these stats should be pulled from Helmets and some 'Skill Tree' Playstyle options created for each Warframe. including generic ones for a bit of extra of this or that stat, while paying something else (actually paying something this time). as well as including Warframe specific ones, that will affect Abilities directly, Et Cetera.

Give it a bigger drawback to make that massive speed boost take a real sacrifice, then?

 

Also, I like that idea... as long as the old Arcane Helmets become nonentities, their effects completely folded into the new system. Even having spent nearly a thousand plat on them, I honestly want such a useful part of the stat-building game (and the only one that, at least sometimes, works with real tradeoffs other than some of the better-designed Corrupted Mods) to not be locked behind exclusivity. Maybe just turn them into nontradeable legendary cores or something.

[TheBrsrkr]

Actually... most of that's already in the OP! Aside from the increased damage, innate Berserker, passive combo count-up and Paralysis buff.

Which, the first two of those would naturally occur if you could add the mods of your melee weapon anyway.

Hysteria already adds the stats of the melee weapon - selectively. Of course, the issue is that its forces players to use a specific kind of weapon. Swapping fully to the EB formula would be much more efficient.

Yeah, the EB formula seems to work a lot better than my other suggestion, after a bit of math. I should just get a link to the OP or something.

Anyway, I added the combo counter tick because being in melee range should have a bigger reward than EB's ranged attacks, and the combo counter mostly just.... sits there. Getting to the 2.5x buff is a pain, and getting any further is near impossible without a select few frames and quite a lot of ability spam. Valkyr could actually make good use of it.

[Archwizard]

Also, I still think A) the DoT should be persistent, possibly with the proc refreshed infrequently, and B) the ticks should scale.

 

Keep in mind, Energy Vampire deals finisher damage based on a percentage of the target's health.

It only has 4 ticks, and it's already one of the most powerful single-target attacks in the game.

 

You're talking about an ability that would bleed all targets in a radius in the same manner, for as long as you have the aura up.

 

Anyway, I added the combo counter tick because being in melee range should have a bigger reward than EB's ranged attacks, and the combo counter mostly just.... sits there. Getting to the 2.5x buff is a pain, and getting any further is near impossible without a select few frames and quite a lot of ability spam. Valkyr could actually make good use of it.

 

I figure that the immortality+life drain+Scorn effect would amply make up for EB's bonus CC and ranged attacks.

[taiiat]

You're talking about an ability that would bleed all targets in a radius in the same manner, for as long as you have the aura up.

2% current Health on each Damage Tick. making for 14% current Health per total DoT instance.

immediately is much more effective at medium and high Level Enemies, while no longer is an Aura of instant death at lower Level Enemies.

with 184% Power Strength, that would make it 39.76% current Health per total DoT instance.

- - - - -

before Mods, would take 5 full Cycles to reduce Health by 50%.

16 Cycles to reduce Health by 90%.

36 Cycles to Kill.

184% Power Strength, 2 Cycles to reduce Health by 50%.

5 Cycles to reduce Health by 90%.

11 Cycles to Kill.

the most important part though, is that it's reliable. and capable of Killing Enemies, just not very quickly. over a Minute to Kill an Enemy with 184% Power Strength. definitely won't be abusing that.

if the speed is considered low i wouldn't complain about doubling the Percenage per DoT but halving the number of Ticks.

[FelisImpurrator]

Keep in mind, Energy Vampire deals finisher damage based on a percentage of the target's health.

It only has 4 ticks, and it's already one of the most powerful single-target attacks in the game.

 

You're talking about an ability that would bleed all targets in a radius in the same manner, for as long as you have the aura up.

Oh, right, Slash proc counts as finisher...

2% current Health on each Damage Tick. making for 14% current Health per total DoT instance.

immediately is much more effective at medium and high Level Enemies, while no longer is an Aura of instant death at lower Level Enemies.

with 184% Power Strength, that would make it 39.76% current Health per total DoT instance.

...but with taiiat's numbers, I actually think it would work, and work fabulously. Along with providing Day Equinox's only means of defense a little more reliably without overbalancing into "eternal stunlock while everything bleeds to death".

 

Any thoughts on the changes I proposed in the thread I linked to?

[taiiat]

Oh, right, Slash proc counts as finisher...

it does, but fixed values of Finisher Damage are pretty trivial compared to Percentages.

i mean, the only Slash Weapons that can even get a Slash Bleed to deal significant Damage when Enemies have enough Armor that you'd care, would be Miter and Dread. and we definitely don't see tons of Players using either with high Status and maximized Slash for more reliable Slash Status and relying on the DoT.

there's some others that can technically make them relevant due to volume, we know what most of those are.

but being Finisher Damage doesn't automatically make it powerful. it's only one half of the coin, the other half is how much Finisher Damage you end up with.

[FelisImpurrator]

it does, but fixed values of Finisher Damage are pretty trivial compared to Percentages.

i mean, the only Slash Weapons that can even get a Slash Bleed to deal significant Damage when Enemies have enough Armor that you'd care, would be Miter and Dread. and we definitely don't see tons of Players using either with high Status and maximized Slash for more reliable Slash Status and relying on the DoT.

there's some others that can technically make them relevant due to volume, we know what most of those are.

but being Finisher Damage doesn't automatically make it powerful. it's only one half of the coin, the other half is how much Finisher Damage you end up with.

Also true, which was why I wanted it to scale with the charge. But your fixed-but-not-excessive percentages would work quite well, too.

[Archwizard]

Any thoughts on the changes I proposed in the thread I linked to?

 

They're pretty scattered. I will probably miss a few, in no small part because of my ADD. (Sorry.)

 

Puncture proc for Mend sort of steps on Pacify's toes (at far enough range, it would actively be stronger and cheaper than Pacify). A Life Steal buff sort of goes against Equinox' identity - the Night form is supposed to represent tranquility and passivity, while that would encourage even more activity. With a name like "Mend", all of its effects should be connected strictly to dishing out healing.

Plus that whole "DE doesn't like abilities you never turn off" thing.

 

The only problem with Maim's damage is armor scaling, as you said previously. The charged damage itself scales enormously well.

 

Range on her 2 and 3 is probably worth calling on, although Range is probably one of her core stats that players are likely to keep stacking anyway.

 

Not sure if Rage really needs more, considering it costs a mere 25 energy for a fairly substantial buff. Granting, the effective cost of stacking Rest and Rage on a single target may not make up for the actual effectiveness in some eyes...

[FelisImpurrator]

 

It was actually just two posts, I think... I think you missed the bits about Metamorphosis and Pacify/Provoke, especially. It's fine, but maybe take a second pass? Here's what I remember of it, though.

 

Metamorphosis cheaper, maybe buff stacking, fine without if the buff timer's longer - anything to encourage switching more. And maybe a little damage mitigation during the two second helpless phase. Remove decaying. Please.

 

Provoke gets selfbuff calculation fixed. Pacify only drains when enemies attack within its radius. No more falloff, ever, because we're usually fighting things with guns.

 

As for Mend... actually, this is one thing I've noticed about the way people approach Equinox. I know my Taoist philosophy well enough to know that Yin and Yang are supposed to have aspects of each other - while being "opposites", what makes the taijitu significant is that the other is needed for one to find balance, that one synergizes with and has traits of the other side mixed in at its core. [DE]Steve said the same thing on Twitter - that he couldn't see why there would be internal synergy or this sort of overlap because they're opposites - but, well, not quite. I think there SHOULD be overlap - Day should have a little more defense, Night should have a little more offense, and the Mend change - taking from enemies to heal allies - would fit that quite well. Puncture also mirrors Slash nicely, and wouldn't infringe on Pacify but rather stack nicely with it if Pacify had its falloff removed.

 

My version of Mend... it should be balanced so you wouldn't stay in it forever, wouldn't be able to. But the core of the idea is that it should mirror Maim properly (i.e., having a DoT tick and a CC proc) WHILE balancing the frame out by letting one side cross into the other just a little - at the moment, unsure what Day could have defensively, other than Maim's CC. Although making it a constant stream of DoT with occasional procs, and making Mend/Maim charge based on damage, would certainly help overall (no more reliance on pure ridiculous burst damage at high levels, for one thing).

 

Range on everything except 1, actually. The goal is for everything to be perfectly solid without Overextended, and I checked - Mend/Maim are underwhelming without absurdly high stacked Range, just as much as everything else.

 

Rage... I honestly always found it underwhelming. I think it falls off pretty hard. So I was thinking, more stable scaling would be in order, hence things like converting a bit of damage INTO Finisher (hello, solution to Maim falloff) or thereabouts.

 

I'm in a bit of a hurry so I can't do this very well. I also think the tweaks need tweaks. Haven't fully thought about what it means to truly unify Night and Day, bring in the other half of "opposites but the same", and introduce some real self-synergy.

 

I did notice Mend/Maim now detonate when you switch forms in the middle. Progress, but I would like to be able to preserve at least half the stack for the other form! Maybe it could detonate half and keep the other? Also, still no Pacify/Provoke auto shift.

[Archwizard]

-snip-

 

- I honestly don't think the secret to compelling players to switch is in Metamorphosis; Metamorphosis' buffs exist only to give it an effect that can be leveled, and an opening for Duration builds. Most builds I see drop Duration for Range anyway simply because of how lackluster they are (limited by their cost), with the real utility being in the swap you can use anyway.

- Not sure if having Pacify drain energy on attacks is any better; Grineer specialize in automatic, burst and continuous-fire weapons meaning multiple instances of damage per target per second. Still, worth considering.

- You'll note in the OP I tried to put an emphasis on combining Mend and Maim, with the latter to passively charge it and the former to passively spend the charge. The point of the Taijitu isn't that Yin and Yang are opposites or inversions of one another, but complements. One shouldn't attempt to do the job of the other in a different way; rather, each should make an opening for the other to complete one task.

- I manage to get pretty good mileage just out of Stretch. Keep in mind that Mend/Maim have as big of an area as Crush, and you can move during.

- Again, Rage is 25 energy. It's going to feel a little underwhelming as long as it has to work within that limitation. I wouldn't say it falls off though, simply because of the flat 50% damage increase - unless you're dropping your Power Strength and not compensating.

[xBlight]

I read through the whole thing and I have to say: I like all of it. Actually, let me be specific: I liked all of it but loved your ideas for Zephyr. When I heard there was going to be a frame that mastered the skies, I did imagine air support. Given her stats, I would love for her to be that air utility that we need.

 

10/10 DE needs to view. 

[FelisImpurrator]

 

-True, but even so, it doesn't have to be lame. Hence better, longer-lasting, cheaper buffs, so if you DO build duration, you're not gimping yourself.

 

-Don't base it on individual shots, but on damage intervals - when enemy is shooting, Pacify drains. When enemy is not shooting, pacify does not drain. In much the same way that Provoke only triggers when powers are used. But one thing's for sure, and that's falloff needing to go.

 

-Complements was what I was getting at precisely. Just that [DE]Steve said on Twitter that he believes Equinox doesn't need self-synergy because both halves are opposites. But what I wanted to do for Mend was to shore up mechanical weaknesses - lack of CC proc, lack of DoT tick that does, well, anything - that make it nearly suicidal to cast without a clear opening.

 

Wait. I just realized. THAT'S why it's so confusing in the OP. It says health pool, not charge pool. You might want to fix that. In light of that, the idea of Maim charging and Mend draining is certainly interesting, but regardless, I still think Night needs a tiny bit more offense the way Maim gives Day a bit more defense, hence the Mend change. Plus, the way you have it set up, there is an optimal, specific order for Mend/Maim: Start with day, end with night, or else your charge gets sucked back down as you build it. (Also, the reason all this other stuff is here is that at late-game, all health and shield totals might as well equal zero because of the oneshot potential, and it doesn't look like a full scaling overhaul's on the books anytime soon.)

 

As for passively charging, it would need to change to "charge based on damage dealt, with DoT tick contributing" (and optionally the reapplied proc - the abilities feel as though they should be a constant pinprick DoT, not the damaging equivalent of Silence) to actually work very well. Also considering how hard it is to kill level 80+ enemies.

 

Also, idea - what if the ticks somehow scaled with duration? Either it just lasts longer with positive, with current duration minimum, or with the reapplying-proc thing maybe speeds up the interval between procs or something (again with base as minimum). Just to make duration a little more meaningful WITHOUT making it a huge penalty to not have it.

 

-True... well, I guess I'm just far too used to what I use Mend/Maim for, which is breaking boxes for loot (for some reason) while also murdering everything, and if range isn't capped it misses a lot of boxes.

 

-How, precisely, does the vulnerability even work? I saw some posts saying it's not of a type that scales well into endgame, which would be why it's not considered to be great, but I don't know for sure.Something about, again, armor beating it thoroughly in the end. Hence the idea of "converts x% fo damage dealt to the target to Finisher".

[Archwizard]

-snip-

 

- I might agree on making it cheaper, simply because starting a mission with a limited energy pool and realizing you're not in the right form (because for some reason using bright red still defaults to Night form) begins to waste it. Still don't think making it more powerful is justifiable.

- I suppose. Added.

- Steve... is not the one in charge of balancing frames. As far as Night form having offense, I'd say Rest's ability to open up targets to finishers actually touches on that. Also, consider the effects Quick Thinking would have on the listed change to Mend.

- Sorry to say, ease of breaking boxes is the last of our concerns when it comes to balancing frames.

- ... the same way Roar does. It increases the damage the target takes by 50%. "I shoot you, my shot is 50% stronger than without." There's nothing about it that falls off, other than the base damage you're already dealing; your shots are no more affected by armor or resistances with it than without. If I use my Opticor on the target, it's 50% more powerful. It's that simple.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Archwizard

[FelisImpurrator]

 

-Er, why not, exactly? It doesn't have to be a godly super buff like the always on passive version some people suggest (and stacking Strength on Day would subsequently be supremely broken), but there's no rule that says it has to be borderline useless the way it is now (decay is awful and you get maybe 10-15 seconds on most builds that end up vanishing anyway if you shift again.

 

-Hm. I'm not entirely sure whether it was Steve or Scott. But either way, good point on Mend, but I'm not sure what you mean by QT effects. Quick Thinking consumes energy to restore HP. Mend would consume energy and enemy HP to restore HP. Getting shot down to below 2HP with QT and Mend on would simply... drain your energy pool faster, wouldn't it? Rage (the mod) would make for a mostly standard ragecycle build with a second layer of buffer thrown in.

 

-I'm aware of this. But you didn't say anything about the rest of the points there at all. Also, although my perception of range might have been affected by the box crushing runs with Day, with just Stretch I actually have had bad results with Crush, and missed a lot of important targets with Maim (note, Shield Polarize and Pull are perfect with only Stretch at 25 base, while Crush struggles a fair bit with 18). Although maybe what Mend/Maim needs is a slightly clearer marker for the outer edge of the effect, like the easily-visible demarcation of Pacify and Provoke's energy ring. Switching to damage-based would also make it a lot easier to charge up.

 

-Ah. Well, that's the idea - at some point damage itself falls off in a sense due to enemy scaling, and with a lower buff and less range (although neither of those things is inappropriate for a 1/2 ability, except Rest/Rage's excessively abysmal effect radius), Rage can't keep up past a certain level. Whether it's 20 minutes of T4 or 40 (maybe 60, but past that is definitely not a priority balance point), ideally, everything should continue to be useful. That was what I was trying to do with Equinox suggestions. Although I guess Rage would be fine if the base radius were at least 4 or 5 meters instead of 2.5, (also, Rest's hitbox seems worse than Rage for some reason).

 

-Oh, also. Rest is a little weird in that it can't CC special enemies that are otherwise perfectly susceptible to CC (like, say - you can blind G3, Ven'kra and Sprag, and Syndicate assassins, and straight up stunlock them that way, but Rest simply can't target them even though it doesn't refresh on recast - it should at least have diminishing returns, which would be a good middle ground between current 'no sell' and the cheap tactic that is blind-locking or permanently slow-Priming special enemies; Synthesis targets seem to have a form of diminishing returns, but in practice they simply become immune after one cast, which I doubt is how it should work), and unlike blind, rested enemies mid-combat don't count as stealth for the purposes of damage bonus and challenges. It's a bit inconsistent overall.

[Archwizard]

-snip-

 

- Because you're talking about making an ability that's less than 25 energy to activate, with a not insubstantial survival/damage buff. Hall of Mirrors already toes the line, simply because each clone's damage is diminished and they have a degree of difficulty aiming.

- To clarify: Mend is active, stores up an amount of health. Someone smacks you really hard and deals fatal damage. Quick Thinking takes hold, your energy runs out - so Mend triggers. You're out of energy, but heal to full with Overshields. (Actually something worth considering, having a CC effect on the release burst rather than periodically - although it doesn't fit thematically. More likely to end up as an augment simply because it adds interaction with another stat.)

- Changing the visual effect to show the edge might be something DE would consider. But if we're saying that literally every ability affected by Range needs more range, DE would just say that's your build at play, since she was designed as such.

- By that logic, literally every buffing ability in the game falls off simply because damage does, by nature. If you're talking about making an exception for Rage, the same argument could be made for Roar, Eclipse, Sonar, etc. The only validity in the complaint is the number of enemies affected per cast, which DE tried to justify with a low cost on par with similarly potent effects like Banish.