A Rematch With The Stalker

[Ishteen]

Let me give you a scenario: You've been marked by the solar system's friendly neighborhood assassin, the Stalker. This is something you're both paranoid and delighted about - his Hate has been evading you for ages, but while you'd like to pick up a blueprint for it, you aren't so sure that you can take him on without some backup. Dedicated "farming" sessions, however, have yielded nothing in the way of broken lights (just arc traps), so you give up and continue running stuff as you see fit.

 

Until one night, two weeks later, your screen blinks red and the Stalker starts sending you death threats over the intercom. Quickly you assess your situation:

• Loki. This is good...if you can keep moving. This is bad...if he pulls out anything ranged.
• Soma. Noob tube represent - you have a chance at inflicting some serious damage with this, even if you haven't stuffed forma into it yet.
• Solo. Oh, this ain't too good...

You keep your cool as best you can, wait for the last bit of ghostly splutter to come out. Then - vwooof - he appears in a cloud of smoke. You train your Soma on him first thing, even though one swipe of that scythe (the one you want so badly!) would probably cleave you in two - but then the Stalker does something entirely unexpected. He whips out his Dread, nocks back an arrow, and lets it fly. The first sears right through your shields; the second finishes the job, and you stare aghast as he magically teleports to your body and kneels. (Aimbot arrows, seriously - no amount of rolling will help.) Oh no, you think, slamming the revive button as fast as you can, but it's too late - away he goes, leaving behind one less shiny resurrection counter and another lost chance at that damnable Hate.

 

Don't lie - this has all happened to you at one point.

 

My riveting narrative aside, what I have to propose is a thing of risk - and also a way to even the odds on that ridiculous death-squad-appearance RNG. Let's say you've been killed by the Stalker. Fine (not really), all well and good (like hell, you gotta get that scythe), but your blood's boiling and you want a rematch. With the current system, there's no way that's going to happen on your terms - so here's my suggestion.

• Though the system is a bit bugged, Stalker generally sends out hate mail (hoho, "Hate" mail) targeting you for the death of a specific boss. Overlooking any subsequent mark stacks, what I propose is this: If you die to the Stalker, run that same boss immediately after you finish your current mission. This will, canonically, "provoke" the Stalker - "Have you not learned your lesson, [Player Name]? If it is death you seek...then you shall find it!" During this mission, the Stalker has a 100% chance of appearing - and you have a 99% chance of dying again.
• When the Stalker successfully makes a kill and despawns, place a short-lifetime portal in the place where he disappears. This will lead the player to a new map (perhaps a nice, smoky realm with no visible floor), where they can duke it out with the Stalker on his own grounds.

Note that this will only work once - if you run in guns a-blazin' only to get sliced in half, you've effectively lost your chance at revenge. It will also only apply if Stalker makes the kill - if you manage to pin him to the floor and he still doesn't drop a blueprint...well, that's the whole loot RNG debate, which we won't go into here.

 

Whether or not this should be applied to the faction death squads - e.g. the Three Stooges and Dented Harvey - is up for debate, but I think, at least, it would give the less pimped-out or the plain unfortunate a second, optional chance at fighting the Stalker.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Ishteen

[kaboomonme]

Sounds like a potential secret mission to add into the game, like what they did with Harvester.

"Do you seek the path of revenge, Tenno? We are more alike than you think."

[baron1357]

TAKE ALL MY YES

[Krjal]

Sounds like a potential secret mission to add into the game, like what they did with Harvester.

"Do you seek the path of revenge, Tenno? We are more alike than you think."

Mmm, tasty.

[SubZeroMaster]

TAKE ALL MY YES

[Ishteen]

Sounds like a potential secret mission to add into the game, like what they did with Harvester.

"Do you seek the path of revenge, Tenno? We are more alike than you think."

 

This is an intriguing idea. It might also be a way for DE to tease a little bit of lore, by the way of sociopathic and megalomanic taunts...kinda like this guy.

[MegpoidBeetle]

AND I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY ONE STILL TRYING TO GET HATE WITHOUT ANY SUCCESS (scumbag Dread bps)

 

If this happens I'd date you.

[Otakuwolf]

Hmmm the portal thing sounds kinda "off" but i agree about Stalker/Harvester/G3 spawn rate being able to "stack"

[Ishteen]

Hmmm the portal thing sounds kinda "off" but i agree about Stalker/Harvester/G3 spawn rate being able to "stack"

 

Stalker marks already stack, or at least that's the common consensus.

 

AND I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY ONE STILL TRYING TO GET HATE WITHOUT ANY SUCCESS (scumbag Dread bps)

 

If this happens I'd date you.

 

Hey, at least he drops you blueprints. He's given me a Heated Charge. Sometimes even two.

[Leuca]

I carry my maxed-out Paris Prime for two primary reasons:

 

1. Bows are awesome.

2. Bows kill stuff, including the Stalker.

 

I don't play his game of trying to dodge heat-seeking arrows anymore. I bring max Redirection with me on every mission and calmly line up one shot for him when he appears. A weapon that requires many small hits (however powerful it is) is not going to compare to one really good shot if you are good at landing it. Don't give him time to kill you and he can't.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Leuca

[Ishteen]

I carry my maxed-out Paris Prime for two primary reasons:

 

1. Bows are awesome.

2. Bows kill stuff, including the Stalker.

 

I don't play his game of trying to dodge heat-seeking arrows anymore. I bring max Redirection with me on every mission and calmly line up one shot for him when he appears. A weapon that requires many small hits (however powerful it is) is not going to compare to one really good shot if you are good at landing it. Don't give him time to kill you and he can't.

 

My proposition has nothing to do with nerfing him; that is a discussion that is being held by other people, on other threads. My proposition is to allow players who have been killed by the Stalker an optional way to have a rematch with him. These are two completely different things.

[Leuca]

My proposition has nothing to do with nerfing him; that is a discussion that is being held by other people, on other threads. My proposition is to allow players who have been killed by the Stalker an optional way to have a rematch with him. These are two completely different things.

Which is about as valid as wanting a rematch when he drops nothing of value. His AI randomly decided to instantly kill you with Dread, and you were unprepared. What you're saying is that you want a rematch against something that's supposed to catch you off-guard in the first place.

[Ishteen]

Which is about as valid as wanting a rematch when he drops nothing of value. His AI randomly decided to instantly kill you with Dread, and you were unprepared. What you're saying is that you want a rematch against something that's supposed to catch you off-guard in the first place.

 

You have, in a sense, defeated your own argument. My suggestion does indeed imply that if you were to re-challenge the Stalker, you would be better prepared (unless doing so meant going through an in-mission portal to fight him with your current gear) - however, the only thing that is guaranteed is the fact that he will show up. Whether or not his AI decides to, as you put it, randomly insta-gib you with Dread again is still an unknown factor.

 

There is no random surprise spawn, but my suggestion still carries with it an unpredictable battle (although, granted, it might be rather one-sided).

 

Further, you mention how the figurative I was "unprepared" for his AI to instantly kill me with the Dread. How, then, am I to "prepare" for this kind of tactic? The only way to do so currently is to preemptively strike - which, while a valid method, also seems largely like the only method. Is that to say, then, that if you don't get the drop on the Stalker you're effectively SOL unless he decides to whip out his melee weapon?

[Shackram]

Stalker marks already stack, or at least that's the common consensus.

 

They stack in that he can keep showing up until he "uses up" all the marks.

 

They don't stack in the regard that it would increase his chances of spawning.

[Ishteen]

They stack in that he can keep showing up until he "uses up" all the marks.

 

They don't stack in the regard that it would increase his chances of spawning.

 

Ah, thank you for clarifying.

[Worira]

The last time the Stalker showed up for me he appeared and killed me during the Defense extraction choice menu, so yeah, I'd be in favour of this.

[CosyPigeon]

I support this idea primarily because I want to fight stalker more often, fighting stalker on your own is fun because it is challenging, and I want to practice against him so often that I develop some delicious Tenno skills. 

[Leuca]

You have, in a sense, defeated your own argument.

No, I haven't, and I'll explain why.

 

My suggestion does indeed imply that if you were to re-challenge the Stalker, you would be better prepared (unless doing so meant going through an in-mission portal to fight him with your current gear) - however, the only thing that is guaranteed is the fact that he will show up. Whether or not his AI decides to, as you put it, randomly insta-gib you with Dread again is still an unknown factor.

This is only a problem for you because your go-to weapon was unable to kill him fast enough; mine is not. If you pick a weapon that will kill him faster than he can kill you regardless of what tactic he opens with, it doesn't matter if he can insta-gib you because your insta-gib is better.

As it is, the ONLY excuse I have at this point to die to the Stalker anymore is if a fluke occurs like the Pull spam he uses when he spawns with a large obstacle separating you from him. However, even if this occurred it is not a flaw with how encounters occur in the first place, but faulty AI and bad combat design.

 

 

There is no random surprise spawn, but my suggestion still carries with it an unpredictable battle (although, granted, it might be rather one-sided).

Stalker battles are, for the most part, as predictable as any other fight in this game now. You either have gear that's good at killing him faster than he kills you, or you don't.

 

 

Further, you mention how the figurative I was "unprepared" for his AI to instantly kill me with the Dread. How, then, am I to "prepare" for this kind of tactic? The only way to do so currently is to preemptively strike - which, while a valid method, also seems largely like the only method. Is that to say, then, that if you don't get the drop on the Stalker you're effectively SOL unless he decides to whip out his melee weapon?

While you're not defeating your own argument per say, you are certainly detracting from it with this train of logic. The Stalker is a gear check at this point, nothing more. If you get to retry but are forced to use the same weapons, your result will likely be the same as before. If you get to retry and switch your weapons, you're basically guaranteed a victory if you have a weapon that is sufficient for this purpose. Either way you're defeating the purpose of an in-game entity that is literally supposed to catch you off-guard.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Leuca

[DocHolliday13]

I support this idea, if only because it's very cool. (I've had all the stalker's stuff for months now.)

[-CM-Zennok]

can't say I support this, it sounds like an interesting idea, but unless the stalker is really op (and only does the 100% appearance when you're solo) his "rare" goodies won't be rare anymore....then again, I had the fortune of having him drop hate the very first time i killed him, so I don't know the struggle :P

[Ishteen]

No, I haven't, and I'll explain why.

 

This is only a problem for you because your go-to weapon was unable to kill him fast enough; mine is not. If you pick a weapon that will kill him faster than he can kill you regardless of what tactic he opens with, it doesn't matter if he can insta-gib you because your insta-gib is better.

As it is, the ONLY excuse I have at this point to die to the Stalker anymore is if a fluke occurs like the Pull spam he uses when he spawns with a large obstacle separating you from him. However, even if this occurred it is not a flaw with how encounters occur in the first place, but faulty AI and bad combat design.

 

 

Stalker battles are, for the most part, as predictable as any other fight in this game now. You either have gear that's good at killing him faster than he kills you, or you don't.

 

 

While you're not defeating your own argument per say, you are certainly detracting from it with this train of logic. The Stalker is a gear check at this point, nothing more. If you get to retry but are forced to use the same weapons, your result will likely be the same as before. If you get to retry and switch your weapons, you're basically guaranteed a victory if you have a weapon that is sufficient for this purpose. Either way you're defeating the purpose of an in-game entity that is literally supposed to catch you off-guard.

 

I yield these points to you (and make no mistake, they are excellent ones). However, leaving aside the fact that the Stalker could indeed use a Dark-Souls-esque makeover in terms of AI and balancing, I am still in support of my suggestion. Here's why.

 

There are many players who, if their screen starts flickering demonic red, may as well call it quits and leave the mission. There are just as many players who, if their screen starts flickering demonic red, they just plant themselves somewhere and prepare for some free loot. The former have no use for a rematch, because they'll just go down again anyway; the latter won't have the opportunity to get a rematch, because they've pinned the Stalker to the floor and made him cry Sally.

 

But, there are many players who are in between these two "extremes" - that is to say, people of intermediate skill or equipment, like myself. These are the players in which a battle with the Stalker could really go either way. I can't speak for everyone, but I can tell you with the utmost confidence that my Soma can indeed deal with him. In squads where I wasn't being targeted, I've wiped him all over the floor in under a second; in a match where I was being targeted, I had a few very close calls before finally striking him down and finding out that DE replaced his Slash Dashes with Heated Charge. (Man, that was a kickass fight. Very chaotic too; lots of Grineer shooting in the air, stomping the ground, what have you.)

 

If these players fall to the Stalker - for whatever reason, perhaps they're under too much fire, or they're in a narrow corridor with no barrel-rolling room, or they just happen to be stuck waiting for the defense reward screen timer to count down - I feel it is only fair to give them an option to fight him once again, especially since it might be months until they get another visit. It's their revive, but it's also their chance at a few knuckle-chewing brushes with death and maybe some cool loot.

 

Your point that the Stalker is, effectively, supposed to catch you off guard is (as I'll reiterate) a very good one, and I really have no way to counter that. It would be awesome if the Stalker was less of a gear check and more of a truly engaging miniboss, but DE's lips are tightly sealed as to whether or not they're tinkering with his code. (Wandering along this tangent, it would be very interesting indeed if the ambush Stalker was his typical OP self, and challenging him again would perhaps see him using fewer cheap tactics but much more advanced and responsive ones - "genuine difficulty", so to speak.)

 

Still, as it stands, I feel my proposition at least alleviates some of the RNG-based nature of his appearance.

[ntyd1s]

*smiles* I like this thread. :)

 

Death is such a temporary thing for everyone involved. xD

[Ishteen]

can't say I support this, it sounds like an interesting idea, but unless the stalker is really op (and only does the 100% appearance when you're solo) his "rare" goodies won't be rare anymore....then again, I had the fortune of having him drop hate the very first time i killed him, so I don't know the struggle :P

 

The struggle is real, man. I've met people in dedicated farming squads who have been hunting for his weapons longer than I have.

 

Kind of going off-topic here a little bit, I think it would also be interesting if the Stalker had a significantly reduced chance of showing up, and was a much smarter and more difficult enemy, but always had a chance to drop a blueprint on death. Still, I haven't put a significant amount of thought into this - I do know that one unfortunate side effect is that you won't be looking over your shoulder quite as much with this sort of change.