Remove "melee Mode" Or At Least Reduce It

[Jamescell]

To clarify, melee mode is the mode means switching/equipping to your melee weapon, not the melee system itself. I made a previous thread about all my gripes with melee 2.0, but it did not receive much attention most likely due to the fact that it was too long.

Anyway, this will re-iterate my point about melee mode. Melee mode polarizes game-play, encouraging either only melee mode or gun play (although melee still isn't viable in comparison). There are some unique benefits to melee mode though, so removing it completely may not be the best solution. 

Switching between the two should be smooth, and the two weapon systems should work in unison, not be as separate as they are. If getting rid of melee mode is too extreme, then I suggest at least allowing for stances to be activated without it, and keeping parrying and channeling exclusively melee mode.

The current system pits melee mode against fire-arm mode. Allowing for quick melee to gain from the benefits of stances such as combos and unique auto attack animations would allow for players to use melee along with weapons effectively; An additional tool instead of a forced choice between rifles and swords.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Jamescell

[Worira]

Agreed, this is one of my biggest gripes about Melee 2.0 in general.

[Wanjibon]

While I agree with your "melee only or gun only" point, saying melee isn't comparable to guns makes me think you've never used a melee weapon before. I can use my dual zorens or dragon nikana and outdamage my soma or anyone elses soma easily.

[Jamescell]

^Then your Soma has horrible mods. You are also forgetting the time it takes to reach each enemy. 

Edited April 20, 2014 by Jamescell

[Wanjibon]

^Then your Soma has horrible mods. You are also forgetting the time it takes to reach each enemy. 

Thats why I said anyone elses soma. I've done plenty of pluto missions with dual zorens and other people run somas and in the results I almost always do more dmg% than them and have more kills. I also have a max stamina regen mod on some frames, and a max sprint mod on all frames and coptering with me melee will close the gap to any enemy on my screen instantly

[Jamescell]

You're talking about two weapons, your Nikana and the Zorens. 

 

The reason you can do more damage is because the Zorens let you copter and beat everyone else to the enemies. Warframe is all about speedy kills.

 

The second is the Nikana, the Nikana is one of the best melee weapons so it better be viable. 

 

Overall as a system, melee weapons aren't as viable as fire arms. You also haven't factored in that party members could be lower level. 

 

You may like bragging about the damage you can pull when with weaker party members by using some of the best weapons that melee has to offer, but that has nothing to do with how useful it is overall. 

Edited April 20, 2014 by Jamescell

[-Duelist-]

Are you kidding. One shotting level 40 ancients with a Dragon Nikana isn't viable? Put the Soma down and learn to expiriment.

Edited April 20, 2014 by DarkDuelist

[achromos]

I made a previous thread about all my gripes with melee 2.0, but it did not receive much attention most likely due to the fact that it was too long. 

 

Anyway, this will re-iterate my point about melee mode. Melee mode polarizes game-play, encouraging either only melee mode or gun play (although melee still isn't viable in comparison). 

 

Switching between the two should be smooth, and the two weapon systems should work in unison, not be as separate as they are. If getting rid of melee mode is too extreme, then I suggest at least allowing for stances to be activated without it, and leaving parrying and channeling exclusively for melee mode. 

 

The current system pits melee mode against fire-arm mode, and it is clear that melee can't compete, even after the "buffs" from melee 2.0. Allowing for active stances while out of melee mode would allow for players to use melee along with weapons effectively; An additional tool instead of a forced choice between rifles and swords. 

 

Being honest "Melee Mode" IS viable if you kit your warframe out for it.  Rage, auto-parry and Reflection out of MANY mods are just the few that come to mind as easy choices if i were to overhaul any warframe to be fitted out for melee.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Sibarian

[BootlessTadpole]

I care about having fun. I switch between both modes constantly and enjoy using both. Have never felt that the new system forces me into one or the other(other than when wanting to use stance combos of course). I feel like your stance on this is really based around a DPS mindset especially because you bring up 'the time it takes to reach each enemy.' Which in most cases yeah ranged will outperform melee. But numbers aren't all that matter in a game. Just my opinion. I will say though that not being able to access stance benefits when using quick melee is strange.

 

But what do I know? I'm just having fun.

[Worira]

I think which is better is really beside the point. The issue is that Melee 2.0 makes using guns and melee weapons interchangeably much, much clunkier than it needs to be, for no real benefit. It's like needing to put away your gun to use Warframe abilities properly.

[FoxFX]

I kinda suggested to change a few thing with Melee 2.0 to make it a bit more reliable that could remedy your problem with it, but even I got heavily chewed at (and was even worse when someone was chatting with me in game) at my thread: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/218233-foxfxs-suggestion-for-melee-20-revision/

 

I can only say that if it bothers you, you are free to ignore melee mode.

[Jamescell]

@Worira isn't that pretty much what I said... 

[Worira]

Yes, but you're getting bogged down in whether shooting dudes or stabbing dudes is better, rather than the "why not both" issue.

[BootlessTadpole]

But how can they fix that? I'll be honest. Sometimes I get in situations where I need to switch from one or the other and that takes 5 years to do so. It doesn't terribly bother me but it is true. Speed Holster helps speed wise but I'd rather use some other Aura.

 

I just can't see how they can make the switch any less clunky other than removing melee mode and giving quick melee the benefits of melee mode. But this is why I'm not a game designer.

[Jamescell]

@Worira No I really wasn't, I was suggesting a more or less "merging" of the two modes. Which is precisely the why not issue, I just put in a sentence about Melee still not being as viable as further reasoning. 

 

Going to remove that sentence so people don't get the wrong idea about the focus of the post as it seems they have.

 

@BootlessTadpole that is exactly what I suggest, to at least add stances into quick melee. Glad you read the post... 

Edited April 20, 2014 by Jamescell

[Wanjibon]

You may like bragging about the damage you can pull when with weaker party members by using some of the best weapons that melee has to offer, but that has nothing to do with how useful it is overall. 

You really can't use that arguement since there are PLENTY of useless guns. Hey, my karak isn't as good as my 6 forma'd soma, therefore guns are useless.

[tantananan]

An additional tool instead of a forced choice between rifles and swords.

I agree! I mean can't we have an additional button for channeling instead of pulling out our melee weapon just to do channeling. That way, we can still use channeling even with our guns drawn.

[Jamescell]

@Wanjibon The majority of melee weapons are more useless than the small amount of guns that are useless in proportion. There are few guns that are horrible, and the ones that are usually are intended for lower level play. Melee, however lacks many advanced weapons. Most seem to be for low level viability, and there are too few to actually have a gradient of usefulness. There are of course a small few at the top which are indeed viable. Saying you can do more damage than party members isn't a reliable way to prove melee is viable either. Being a more experienced player overall with better gear and mods greatly influences how much damage you can do regardless of what weapon you're using. 

Edited April 20, 2014 by Jamescell

[BootlessTadpole]

I got a little fired up. Made a pointless post when it wasn't needed. Reading the post only served to make me go 'Anti-DPS for fun' mode.

 

That aside, you don't want to remove melee mode completely though do you? Sure buffing quick melee with melee only modes benefits would be great but I quite enjoy going melee only for the fun and appearance of it.

[Jamescell]

@BootlessTadpole If you read the post you could probably find out. :P

Edited April 20, 2014 by Jamescell

[BootlessTadpole]

Oh lord. I swear that's not what it said before. I feel intelligent.

Yeah I can agree with buffing quick melee to melee only benefits while retaining the current melee only mode alongside it.

[Vargras]

"Please remove a new function that you spent months iterating and working on because I do not like it."

 

Get out.

[VKhaun]

I'm not sure what everyone means by 'melee mode'. Is equipping a gun 'gun mode'? It's just the equipped weapon and that's how it's used. I think the control scheme could use more options but that's not directly gameplay related. I like the gameplay of swapping to my melee weapon.

 

 

 

I do however want to post in this thread and put my 2¢ in that I wish we did have more combined melee/range weapons like the Glaive and Kestrel. Maybe a rifle with a bayonet that does melee swings with hip fire, and when aiming it fires the rifle? A one handed spear that can be thrown. Throwing axe.

 

I've seen DE repeatedly do silly things with dual pistols in what I can only assume is an attempt to justify singles. I say let us use single pistols and single swords at the same time. Mouse 1 is channeling while hip firing, and when you aim Mouse 1 fires the pistol. Balanced by the loss of blocking (and thus parry->counter), where instead of blocking dangerous hits you'd have to move around or use the pistol to shoot really dangerous stuff (like Ancients coming to glitch slap you) ahead of time while slashing targets that were open.

Edited April 20, 2014 by VKhaun

[Jamescell]

@Vargas "I don't understand what the post is saying, I should leave the forums."

 

Good Idea.

 

But really, I don't think you understand my intentions. What is meant by "melee mode" is having to select your melee weapon in game, not the system itself. To more clearly iterate my point, all I am suggesting is allowing the benefits of stances in quick melee. 

Edited April 20, 2014 by Jamescell

[Jamescell]

@VKhaun saying "melee mode" refers to how the Devs described the new melee system. So yeah, using melee is melee mode. 

 

My title might be a bit misguiding. A solution I prefer is to add combos and stance benefits into quick melee, not necesarilly do away with the whole thing. 

Edited April 20, 2014 by Jamescell