A Simple Thread On How To Make All Warframes Viable Again.

[Atholl]

First things first we need to understand what makes a warframe viable or not.
Warframes should have both early and end game abilities, here some examples:

Slash Dash is an early game ability because it deals a fixed amount of damage and has very low utility.

Sonar is an end game ability because it offers MULTIPLIERS on our damage output which is decided by mods of our weapons.

Bastille is an end game ability because it offers heavy stuns which is counted towards utility.

Rhino Stomp is both an early and end game ability because it offers both fixed amounts of damage and heavy suns.</div>

Molecular Prime is a "perfect" ability offering fixed amounts of damage, multipliers and utility (50% slow).</div>

Now I'll try to make every frame viable without breaking the game:

Ash:
1)Shuriken:
Also deals a small ammount of damage% and have a 100% bleed proc.

2)Smoke Screen:
Untouched.

3)Teleport:
Deals increased damage to the enemy targeted once teleported and stuns them giving you the possibility to perform a stealth attack.

4)Blade Storm:
The hits of Blade Storm will count towards your hit counter also applying those multipliers to this power.

Banshee:
1)Sonic Boom:
Either increasing the damage, lowering the cost or increasing even more the AoE for this ability.

2)Sonar:
Untouched.

 

3)Silence:
Affects allies by silencing all weapons and enemies by eliminating their resistances (ex. all shields will not reduce slash damage, infested will not reduce electrical damage etc.)and doubleing their weakness.

4)Sound Quake:
Banshee becomes invincible for the duration and draws aggro from all enemies alerted.</div>

Ember:

1)Fireball:
Also deals a 100% proc on radiation, enemies will try to melee the first target near them if another enemy is hit this way they also get the 100% proc of fire.

2)Accelerant:
Untouched:

3)Fire blast:
enemies can continuously be hit by fire procs, these procs can stack.

4)World on Fire:
Increase in movement speed and damage reduction while active

Excalibur:
1)Slash Dash:
Also deals 50% of the channeled melee hit of your current weapon in addition to its base damage

2)Radial Blind:
Untouched.

3)Super Jump:
Always activates an effect similar to Heavy Impact when touches the ground after using this ability knocking enemies down, the damage is proportional to the height reached during the jump, it can also be activated mid air.

4)Radial Javelin:
The javelins also deal a certain amount of extra damage modified by the mods on your melee weapon.

 

Frost:
1)Freeze:
Enemies take damage upon being hit by this ability and at the end of it's duration (by both expiring or taking more than 300 points of damage)

2)Ice Wave:
Enemies will slow down also their rate of fire upon being hit by the freeze proc.

3)Snow Globe:
Untouched.

4)Avalanche:
Enemies will be permanently slowed if they remain alive at the end of avalanche.

Hydroid:
1)Tempest Barrage:
Prioritizes the enemies who are still on their feet than the ones knocked down.

2)Tidal Surge:
Untouched.

3)Undertow:
Allies will recover shields while standing on the pool of water.

4)Tentacle Swarm:


Loki:
1)Decoy:
The decoy also have a short time of invulnerability upon being cast.

2)Invisibility:
Untouched.

3)Switch Teleport:
The enemies that are attacking you will keep shooting to the enemy you switch teleported with for a short period of time it applies a 100% radiation proc for the same amount of time.

4)Radial Disarm:
It also prevent ancients to have their signature abilities, the healer will pulse but not heal the toxic will not be surrounded by their toxic cloud and the ancient distrupters will not be able to proc their draining attacks.

Mag:
1)Pull:
Untouched.

2)Shield Polarize:
Enemies with no shields will count their health for the detonation formula, casted on an ally will do the detonation but not damage that or any other frames in the process.

3)Bullet Attractor:
Will swap a set number of times to another target if the enemy targeted dies before the end of the skill duration

4)Crush:
Enemies will be also stunned for a short period of time after the end of the crush animation.

Nekros:
1)Soul Punch:
Deals a fixed amount of damage plus an extra damage that scales with enemies level, the fixed damage will ignore armor, the projectile spawned will actively seek for enemies.
 

2)Terrify:
Also slows down enemies and makes them take increased damage.

3)Desecrate:
Untouched.

4)Shadows of the Dead:
Shadows summoned with this skill will have an health and level boost.

Nova:
1)Null Star:
The particles will briefly stun the target, multiple particles can be launched if multiple enemies are close (each enemy has it's own counter), this skill con be refreshed by casting it again even if not all the particles are gone.

2)Antimatter Drop:
Untouched.

3)Wormhole:
Untouched.

4)Molecular Prime:
Untouched.

Nyx:
1)Mind Control:
The mind controlled enemy is fully healed and given an health boost, at the end of the duration that enemy health return on normal levels taking the same amount of damage of the missing life it had before the skill cast plus all the damage dealt to him while under Mind Control.

2)Psychic Bolts:
Actively seeks enemies and have an infinite punch through, marked enemies will have their silouette shown through walls and will appear on the minimap, if an enemy that did not detect you is hit this way he will be not alerted.

3)Chaos:
Untouched.

4)Absorb:
Wider explosion range.

 

Oberon:
1)Smite:
Also increases damage on the enemy you casted it on and a smaller increase for the enemies hit by the other projectiles

2)Hallowed Ground:
Also staggers enemies upon entering the AoE and slows them down while they are standing on it.

3)Renewal:
If the healing exceeds the maximum life the remaining amount is turned into ignored damage (like Rhino's iron skin) this caps at a set amount.

4)Reckoning:
Also always procs puncture.

Rhino:

1)Rhino Charge:
Untouched.

2)Iron Skin:
The amount of ignored damage scales on the enemy's maximum level.

3)Roar:
Untouched.

4)Rhino Stomp:
Untouched.

Saryn:
1)Venom:
Deals base damage plus % damage over the duration , the spores explosions also deal a base plus a %.

2)Molt:
Lowering the energy cost and adding a few seconds of invincibility on the molt.

3)Contagion:
Also buffs the primary and secondary weapon even if by a much smaller amount.

4)Miasma:
While active enemies will take bonus damage from poison damaging weapons/abilities and a smaller bonus for the combined poison elements (gas, corrosive and viral).

Trinity:
1)Well of Life:
Gives infinite health to the enemy but returns them all the damage dealt once the duration expires.

2)Energy Vampire:
Untouched.

3)Link:
Untouched.

4)Blessing:
Untouched.

Valkyr:
1)Rip Line:
Untouched.

2)Warcry:
Lowering the cost of the power.

3)Paralysis:
Untouched.

4)Hysteria:
Untouched.

Vauban:
1)Tesla:
Even if they don't proc the teslas stuns enemies upon hit.

2)Bastille:
Untouched

3)Bounce:
Allies bounced will gain half of their shields as bonus shields for a set period of time.

4)Vortex:
Untouched.

Volt:
1)Shock:
Increased base damage, enemies will have problem aiming after being hit by this power.

2)Speed:
Untouched.

3)Electric Shield:
If the weapon deals a portion of pure electrical damage it will be amplified by a larger multiplier, also passing through it it will give you the same boost to your melee weapon for a short period of time.

4)Overload:
Gains invincibility for the duration of the skill and for a short period of time after the animation.

Zephyr:
1)Tail Wind:
Increased base damage.

2)Dive Bomb:

Also pushes back enemies caught in the radius.

3)Turbulence:
Untouched.

4)Tornado:
Untouched.

Please let me know what you think about it and if there are other changes that you like to see.

EDIT:(as for 8.30 PM  22/04 )
Some of Ash's, Saryn's and Ember's abilities modified.
Hydroid added.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Atholl

[DiBBz]

cant really be a megathread when hardly anyone is talking about this

 

:EDIT:

dont really see the mass threads appearing in rage on the forums about this etc.. best to just take out the megathread mate and if it gets enough attraction then re-edit it again and put in megathread

Edited April 21, 2014 by DiBBz

[Kracken]

two things :

1. scaling

2. fix coptering

[Sh1n3y]

I think they're all viable. Some may need a bit more tweaking if they are to be great endgame, but if we try to hard to make all the frames viable in all situations, then we'll have a bunch of vanilla-frames! They should all be different and viable in different ways. 

 

That said, some of your recommendations for altering the skills are interesting. 

[VKhaun]

I don't think the intent is that all damage skills scale to high levels. Scott's made comments several times in devstreams about players moving on to utility and CC and just getting help with damage from powers, not one shotting everything forever.

 

Ash is a good example. His 1 and 4 are novel, but then 2 and 3 give you sort of a manual version of 4 once you grow out of the damage. You teleport to the enemies, smokebomb, hack them up until you're visible, and then repeat. The only thing I'd change would be to give 1 some utility like maybe have it disarm the target, and I'd make him immune to knockdown/stagger for a few seconds after using smokebomb because a lot of times enemies will just complete their attack even if you stun/interrupt them and fling you across the room.

Edited April 21, 2014 by VKhaun

[Nkomo-Sama]

I like most ideas save Saryns venom that is OP and I would like Ashs' Shuriken to have punch through and his teleport to stun creating a chance for a finisher like Valkyrs Paralysis...

[-Upgreid-]

I think that we need an ability damage system in place. For example: WoF: 2% of enemy health per rank per tick, and +20 damage per rank. This is just an example, mind you. The percentage of health taken is guaranteed. In the case of Corpus this includes their shields. This percentage allows damage abilities to scale while also allowing things to get more difficult later on. I say 50% of the damage should be health with the other half being actual damage. The damage type would be Ability: No strengths or weaknesses, just a flat health removal.

[VMTR-Striker]

This is a MMO and each warframe does fall into one of the four classes in this game. 

 

Each warframe has a function in a co-op group game play and yes some are better at other things than others are. There is no reason to balance them out and make them good and equal to each other.

[Atholl]

cant really be a megathread when hardly anyone is talking about this

 

:EDIT:

dont really see the mass threads appearing in rage on the forums about this etc.. best to just take out the megathread mate and if it gets enough attraction then re-edit it again and put in megathread

I'll edit that out, thanks for letting me know.

[Atholl]

This is a MMO and each warframe does fall into one of the four classes in this game. 

 

Each warframe has a function in a co-op group game play and yes some are better at other things than others are. There is no reason to balance them out and make them good and equal to each other.

The idea here wasn't to make them equal to each other , but apealing to both early and end game players.

Thanks for your collaboration.

[Dalu__Ka]

You probably raise some good points, but your premise is wrong.

Every frame already is viable.

[Nkomo-Sama]

You probably raise some good points, but your premise is wrong.

Every frame already is viable.

Agreed. I left that out.

[Atholl]

You probably raise some good points, but your premise is wrong.

Every frame already is viable.

Thanks for the opinion, i know all frames are already viable, but small mechanics tweaks may make them even more interesting for all players.

[Balduron04]

I'm not sure that every power on every warframe needs to scale into late game. I can take a frame of your choice, do some work, and send you a build and play-style that will work on any level.

 

Excalibur has the most early-game oriented powers, and as such, is one of the starter frames. However, this does not mean that he is useless, or that he doesn't scale into late game. Slash dash is amazing against infested, and decent on all enemies up to lvl 15 or so. Radial Javelin can defeat the jackal in 2 casts, and does work. When these powers start to be less effective, his Radial Blind can take over to give him all the advantage he needs to defeat groups.

 

It seems like you want players to be able to slash-dash all the way through Pluto instead of finding limitations and learning on how to overcome them in true ninja fashion.

 

I do however agree that many of the above changes would make the game more fun. Some of your suggestions are just OP, and I will list one of them now:

Saryn's Venom: Currently, when a spore is destroyed, it explodes and puts spores on all nearby enemies. I've used this to great effect in Void Missions, and I feel the only buff venom needs would be a % health tic OR a consistent elemental proc (its currently Viral Damage) :D

[Atholl]

I'm not sure that every power on every warframe needs to scale into late game. I can take a frame of your choice, do some work, and send you a build and play-style that will work on any level.

 

Excalibur has the most early-game oriented powers, and as such, is one of the starter frames. However, this does not mean that he is useless, or that he doesn't scale into late game. Slash dash is amazing against infested, and decent on all enemies up to lvl 15 or so. Radial Javelin can defeat the jackal in 2 casts, and does work. When these powers start to be less effective, his Radial Blind can take over to give him all the advantage he needs to defeat groups.

 

It seems like you want players to be able to slash-dash all the way through Pluto instead of finding limitations and learning on how to overcome them in true ninja fashion.

 

I do however agree that many of the above changes would make the game more fun. Some of your suggestions are just OP, and I will list one of them now:

Saryn's Venom: Currently, when a spore is destroyed, it explodes and puts spores on all nearby enemies. I've used this to great effect in Void Missions, and I feel the only buff venom needs would be a % health tic OR a consistent elemental proc (its currently Viral Damage) :D

thanks for the answer , you are right on many points but mine wasn't about slash dashing up to Pluto my point wasn't being obligated rhino stomping up to Pluto.

[Sharrack]

I'm not sure that every power on every warframe needs to scale into late game. I can take a frame of your choice, do some work, and send you a build and play-style that will work on any level.

But it would be nice if every ability had some use in late game instead of only one ability still being usefull. Rhino is a good example of how it could be, with Iron Skin being the only ability with a possible point of uselessness reached when you are one-shotted anyway (although i think it can still be used as taunt but not sure on this).

[Stefanovich]

"Bladestorm - Unchanged"

Stopped reading there.

[Edgedemon]

"Bladestorm - Unchanged"

Stopped reading there.

 

i stopped at "Molecular Prime" is perfect, that ability is broken, is spam able, deals a lot of damage has no enemy cap and has a huge debuff, the damage part has sense. is a glass cannon! it should do damage but the "slow" is plain OP and is outside the frame "Damage Dealer" purpose. other units have C.C. skills true and necessary, but no other has it added with their highest damage dealer.,except perhaps hydroid but his skill is more about area denial than damage.

[Atholl]

i stopped at "Molecular Prime" is perfect, that ability is broken, is spam able, deals a lot of damage has no enemy cap and has a huge debuff, the damage part has sense. is a glass cannon! it should do damage but the "slow" is plain OP and is outside the frame "Damage Dealer" purpose. other units have C.C. skills true and necessary, but no other has it added with their highest damage dealer.,except perhaps hydroid but his skill is more about area denial than damage.

With perfect i meant it has everything, it doesn't have any flaws and this is what makes it so broken like other skills such as Blessing from Trinity.

I've tried to ramp up the other frames skill scaling/utility instead of nerfing the already existing broken ones.

also thanks for the contribution.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Atholl