@steve: Let's Talk More About That Ds Pvp Gametype You Mentioned

[SolidSp33d]

 From Steve in another thread here:

 

Hey Mogamu! Thanks for this! I am totally with you on 1, medium on 2 and worry that 3 would defeat the purpose (it would just be reward 'creep' from the other nodes). I really appreciate this (and the tons of other feedback we've gotten).

 

We are working quickly to expand on this system - random stuff that is coming (that may miss the mark on some of your concerns but here goes):

-New game mode, potentially with vs. to make it more interesting and challenging to play contested sectors.

-Rail strategies in the from of types (nuke rail, as destabilizing force), as well as strength/weakness rail types to create some strategy in the planning and deployment phase.

-Troop preparation mechanics based on the rail strength/weakness you're attacking.

-Some amount of tactical responsiveness at rail level when being attacked (accessories you can build for your rail and deploy to bolster).

-Some grief reduction in battle pay baiting.

-Tenno Specter enhancements as well as the potential for individuals to build a 'simulacrum' object that captures their current load out and then is available by tacticians to deploy as Specters in a specific tower.

-Fix the damn 'first to click' as you mentioned.

 

Longer term, it goes wider:

-Use the Dojo building (with UI improvements) to make the gameplay spaces players attack (ala Dungeon Keeper) to increase variety and fun.

-Faction invasions of Dark Sectors to widen the conflict.

-Some Lore and "ritualization" of all of these conflicts to address some of the 'Why are Tenno fighting Tenno'... expanding on Tenno as Warrior culture and making it easier for people to accept the cultural ramifications of this game mode.

-Road-building expansion of Dark Sectors (in that building a rail potentially reveals another Dark Sector beyond).

-These Dark Sectors will become the Frontier when the new faction invades (dramatic music).

 

*-As with everything, these are ideas we are pursuing and do not constitute a guarantee, void in Ontario, etc. :)

 

 

This information is 10/10 Steve. We really need to see you pop up more often and give opinions on some ideas btw.

 

For the new game mode with potentially having a V.S. I have an idea that's been partially touched upon by others. (I'll probably run this by Rebecca to get to you if you don't pop back in this thread). It think it would be amazing if you introduced a little Dark Souls with that mode. In regards to their invasion PvP system I mean.

 

 

In case you don't know how that system works here is a little run down (I'm still a little new to Dark Souls so if someone reading sees a mistake or notices that I miss anything, please mention it) I'll be going over Dark Souls 1's system first:

 

-In the game you can consume an item called Humanity. When you do you can use it to enter the state of being Human rather than a Hollow.

-Being Human allows you to summon people into your game to help you against the PvE content.

-When you are Human you can be invaded by other people with the sole mission to take you out. (these people use something called a red soapstone to do that) The people there with you can help defend you.

-These invaders, defenders, and such a essentially part of different factions and use items to enter these games to either help or attack other players.

-There is something called indictment which, I think, marks a player who just killed the player of a session to be marked for assassination by another.

-The blues are the ones that invade to kill indicted players, and the reds are the "bad guy" killers who are invading "innocent players."

 

In Dark Souls 2 there are a few differences I think: (btw I think the DS1 system might be better to draw from. But that's up for debate)

 

-Players are always up for invasion, whether or not they are Hallow or Human.

-Players summoned by the another for help cannot attack PvE enemies. They are there solely to stop those invading to kill you.

-Summoned players have a limited time they can stay in the world so they have to act fast against invaders.

 

 

I think doing a version of the Dark Souls 1 system for the gametype would be pretty wonderful. That type of Invasion PvP is something that would meld VERY well with Warframe. Here are a few ideas for that gametype/system. (I'm also going to draw a little from Fractals Dungeons, Agony, and Agony Resistance from GW2)

 

Gametype Ideas:

-The alternate gametype (for whatever time of mission it would be) would be tougher and more dangerous. You'd be taking a more dangerous approach to do more damage than usual to the tower.

 

-You can only enter this area solo and only by having a special item in your gear slot can you bring in another to help. (Yhe equivalent to humanity here. I'll call it a beacon for now) Perhaps there would also be some areas in the mission, or extra things to be done that can only be done if you have two in the mission as well.

 

-You can't choose who to bring in, you just use the item (it isn't consumed) in the mission in order to flag your mission to have someone join. People who enter to help others need to queue up for the mission with a white beacon.

 

-When you have a beacon another player who chooses to fight for the opposing side and queues for the mission with a red beacon will enter to defeat you and kick you out of the mission.

 

-Those with red beacons who successfully defeat and kick out a player can be marked by that defeated player if they have been defeated 3 times in a row.

 

-Those who queue up with a blue beacon from can enter and seek out those guilty players REGARDLESS of what beacon they are currently using. Normal, White, Red. Doesn't matter.

 

-There can not be more than one type of beacon player in a mission (unless of course you had plans to have a higher player cap in these versus missions)

 

-When holding a beacon you cannot bring certain types of weapons into the mission, and can only have a conclave of a certain level (on a weapon by weapon basis) when entering. (I'd leave those decisions up to you guys. But I'd personally recommend not allowing hitscan weapons to be used, and obvious things like the ogris until PvP balance is better.. Non-hit-scan makes the current PvP a lot more fun. Or perhaps just limiting the conclave a lot for those.)

 

Incentives for using each beacon:

 

reg. beacon:

-Doing more damage to the tower per mission.

-Gaining white, red, and blue circuits used in making other beacons at end of the mission. (more when successful, a few when not)

 

white beacon:

-Helping others get the extra damage done in their mission.

-Gaining bonus white circuits if successful

 

red beacon:

-Stopping enemy from doing extra damamge

-Breaking their reg. beacon if successful 

- (This is a maybe) Steals the battle pay they would have earned

-Gaining bonus red circuits if successful

 

blue beacon:

-Gaining a bounty when hunting guilty players.

-Gaining bonus blue circuits if successful

 

More on beacons:

 

-The regular beacon is made using clan tech and is reeeally easy to research (quick to research as well) and probably fairly easy to make. It is consumed only when defeated.

 

-The white, red, and blue beacons are also only broken when defeated. They are also fairly easy to make once you gather up the circuits to make them. They don't require much.

 

-A permanent version of these beacons (probably with really cool names like "Sash of the Red Path", or "Banner of the White Legion") are very tough to make. These also might tie into proxy war factions/organizations and require interaction with them in the future to upgrade to these special banners. Possibly expanding them to do a little more.

 

I think that this system would be pretty deep, and offer a lot of fun! Of course there are a lot more wholes to fill within this and the mission itself, but this is the general concept. I'd really like to hear from you on this Steve.

 

(pardon the goofy spelling or grammatical mistakes I probably made)

 

I'd also like to here from my fellow Tenno here about the idea.

 

(The "PvP? How about no" sheep can turn around and walk out, thanks.)

Edited April 23, 2014 by SolidSp33d

[ensignvidiot]

 (The "PvP? How about no" sheep can turn around and walk out, thanks.)

 

Nah im quite comfy here.

 

Actual debate to follow after fully re-reading what you have.

[SolidSp33d]

Nah im quite comfy here.

 

Actual debate to follow after fully re-reading what you have.

 

Fair enough.

I did say the "sheep" as in those who don't know what they are talking about and give arguments like a drugged politician. So as long as you're not that, we're good.

 

Regardless this idea is something that you have to "flag" yourself for (which is the beauty of Dark Souls PvP in Dark Souls 1) do people who don't want it don't have an issue.

Edited April 23, 2014 by SolidSp33d

[ensignvidiot]

Okay, i like the idea of keeping the PvE players seperate from PvP players but this raises several issues

 

1. This is Darksouls system, while it works for Darksouls this is Warframe. We would need a more warframe'y system for this game. I'm thinking less beacons and more Honor-Warrior like.

2. This give people incentive to play PvP for increased damage in whatnot, but what does it provide regular PvEers?

3. using a beacon is ALWAYS random, why cant i queue with my friends? What happens if one beacons and we all dont?

4. This game is TOTALLY NOT BALANCED for Tenno vs Tenno (take a look at some Cheese Conclave builds). In short, warframe CANT SUPPORT true PvP, we just arent balanced for it at all. Too many mods to tweak, too many frames and weapons too.

 

 

In short, its an interesting system and take on how PvP could fuction if it became a real thing. But i think you need to approach this monster from a different angle

[PsychedelicSnake]

I'm humoring the possibility that he means adding additional mechanics and depth to the PvEvP system the Solar Rails currently have. That's just as possible as the PvP assumption going around.

[avinity8]

Muhahaha one step closer to being able/allowed to slaughter fellow Tenno!

[SolidSp33d]

Okay, i like the idea of keeping the PvE players seperate from PvP players but this raises several issues

 

1. This is Darksouls system, while it works for Darksouls this is Warframe. We would need a more warframe'y system for this game. I'm thinking less beacons and more Honor-Warrior like.

2. This give people incentive to play PvP for increased damage in whatnot, but what does it provide regular PvEers?

3. using a beacon is ALWAYS random, why cant i queue with my friends? What happens if one beacons and we all dont?

4. This game is TOTALLY NOT BALANCED for Tenno vs Tenno (take a look at some Cheese Conclave builds). In short, warframe CANT SUPPORT true PvP, we just arent balanced for it at all. Too many mods to tweak, too many frames and weapons too.

 

 

In short, its an interesting system and take on how PvP could fuction if it became a real thing. But i think you need to approach this monster from a different angle

 

All good points.

 

1. I do agree. I'm just using these "beacons" as a way to communicate the idea. There should definitely be a more Warframe-like approach to how these positions are actually taken.

 

2. The mission can be run without the "reg beacon". It will just be more of a challenge. Although I do see the issue that you'd want to be able to run this with others if you're just interested in the PvE direction. Perhaps the system would have a PvE direction all it's own to it.

     An alternate version of the reg. beacon for those who want a PvE version of the system. You be able to invite friends to queue up with you when you do this version, but the enemy will spawn much more adept leader variants of the Tenno Spectres. They would even make use of all their abilities, unlike the others. With the added addition of clans being able to customize the spectres in their missions (Steve also mentioned this will come) the leaders would be even more awesome. Other types of additions to the mission would happen that you can only see/do if you run the PvE version. More challenges with the more people you bring in. (special boss spawn with the addition of that 4th person anyone?)

     This would also be a good way to get whatever you need to enter the different roles of the PvP version when you're just starting out.

 

 

3. Basically answered this in number 2.

 

4. Like I mentioned, when you have these beacons only certain types of weapons would be available for use atm, as well as limited in the conclave rating you can bring in to the mission (not as a whole, otherwise people would just focus all their conclave points on one weapon. It would be on a slot by slot basis). Basically making the things that some of the conclave community self inflicts on themselves mandatory for the PvP in these special missions.

     It still wouldn't be super balanced, (at least not for too long), but it would make it far more stable than otherwise. Stable enough until DE finally gets around to tweaking the PvP stats for things more than they have.

Edited April 24, 2014 by SolidSp33d

[SolidSp33d]

I'm humoring the possibility that he means adding additional mechanics and depth to the PvEvP system the Solar Rails currently have. That's just as possible as the PvP assumption going around.

 

He already mentioned that additional depth and mechanics in the rest of the post though.

Either way, the hype is real.

Edited April 24, 2014 by SolidSp33d

[AuroraSonicBoom]

4. This game is TOTALLY NOT BALANCED for Tenno vs Tenno

 

You can balance everything, that's not the problem. I wouldn't really trust DE with achieving it, but that's not to say it's theoretically impossible.

Balance is not an issue because it can be worked on. What can't be worked on is that PvP will attract people like:

 

Muhahaha one step closer to being able/allowed to slaughter fellow Tenno!

, and those people will attract even more of the same. Egocentrical, confrontational, disrespectful people that will change climate of this community forever for the worse. You think the behaviour of people on the forums is bad now? You've seen nothing. This issue is not something that can be worked on, only avoided by not attracting their kind in the first place. I feel like they already have the foot in our(the pve community) door with how convieniently well designed the DS sabotage map is for PvP.

 

 

I'm humoring the possibility that he means adding additional mechanics and depth to the PvEvP system the Solar Rails currently have. That's just as possible as the PvP assumption going around.

 

Take a look at the dark sector sabotage tileset. Bunch of void stuff plus a reactor room with 4(!) seperate nodes we have to disable to complete the objective. Seems a little contrived for PvE purposes, right? None of the control panels are guarded seperately or have any other mechanics that would benefit from 4 seperate panels. It makes perfect sense from a PvP standpoint, though. Make no mistake here, this has been planned from the start for head to head PvP, which is why we have to be as loud as freaking possible if we want to even have a chance at preventing this.

[SolidSp33d]

You can balance everything, that's not the problem. I wouldn't really trust DE with achieving it, but that's not to say it's theoretically impossible.

Balance is not an issue because it can be worked on. What can't be worked on is that PvP will attract people like:

 

, and those people will attract even more of the same. Egocentrical, confrontational, disrespectful people that will change climate of this community forever for the worse. You think the behaviour of people on the forums is bad now? You've seen nothing. This issue is not something that can be worked on, only avoided by not attracting their kind in the first place. I feel like they already have the foot in our(the pve community) door with how convieniently well designed the DS sabotage map is for PvP.

 

 

 

Take a look at the dark sector sabotage tileset. Bunch of void stuff plus a reactor room with 4(!) seperate nodes we have to disable to complete the objective. Seems a little contrived for PvE purposes, right? None of the control panels are guarded seperately or have any other mechanics that would benefit from 4 seperate panels. It makes perfect sense from a PvP standpoint, though. Make no mistake here, this has been planned from the start for head to head PvP, which is why we have to be as loud as freaking possible if we want to even have a chance at preventing this.

 

....really? Seriously? Wholly and truly, you're serious?

 

You're calling this:

Muhahaha one step closer to being able/allowed to slaughter fellow Tenno!

"Egocentrical, confrontational, disrespectful"

 

Talk about taking a joke post way too seriously. Really?

 

You've definitely got some irrational fears going on acting like PvP is a plague that attracts all the scum of the world. In ANY space for competition there are those who make the area a little toxic. More prevalent is full on PvP games if you're just rolling around in the random matchmaking space. But competition extends beyond PvP. People are people, and people are everywhere. Scumbags just aren't in PvP. When PvE get's deeper there are waves of toxic elitists on that end too. From world first races, to running raids, to pubbin' dungeons, and yatta yatta. EVERYWHERE. You can even find some of that scumbaggery around the game now.

 

Plenty of games do PvP and PvE mixes and they are just fine. Toxicity is everywhere. You just have to interact with people more in PvP, plus it's nothing but competition, so you see it at the surface far more. But you'll find it everywhere else.

 

Don't try to stifle the growth of a game because of an irrational fear that the crowd who likes another style of gameplay will somehow poison all of it. That thinking is just full of holes.

 

Even Ensign likes the general idea and can see how it obviously separates the two areas.

You're acting like this is a summoning circle for demons from another dimension. It's ridiculous.

Edited April 24, 2014 by SolidSp33d

[SolidSp33d]

PVP in a PVE game is a bad idea, hopefully the PVP idea is never implemented, and going by how many more players are wanting it to not be there, should give you a clear sign it's not welcome.

 

 

 

 

There has never been a game where the two communities mixed fine. The game does not require PVP to grow, it has grown greatly without PVP. PVE is the focus, not PVP.

 

I don't even know if I should bother responding to this. This takes generalization, ignorance, and not knowing a thing about how things work in other games to a whole new level. Like wow.

 

"There has never been a game where the two communities mixed fine." That really makes me laugh.

 

Man, I feel like I'm going full Nugget_ here (jk nugget, but you're pretty damn cynical :P ), and I apologize for that. But bloody hell, I have literally never seen the ridiculous stigma I see with a few players here in the many games I've played. Seriously, stretch your legs a little bit, drink some juice, rub the crust from your eyes, because this is just crazy.

 

Want to know what it's like to be a PvE only person with a little be of sense? Look at Ensign right up at the top area of the thread. See any of those bulbous claims? No.

Did he give honest and correct feedback about what the mode aforementioned would offer PvE players? Yes.

Did he recognize that the general idea is an interesting one and like the fact that it seperates the PvP and PvE gameplay? Yes.

Emphasis on seperationg of GAMEPLAY. Did you see him spouting some bs segregation of people who like PvP or PvE. NO.

 

In case you didn't notice, MMOs (Warframe isn't even a MMO-lite just yet, I'm speaking generally) are known for essentially being many many games in one. That's what makes them unique. They have many many different options for all different strokes of people. All of them, when done right, meld together very well. They have their own distinct markers, but the systems can also blend together smoothly. That's the characteristic that keeps MMO's such a unique experience. Keeps them kicking. Making terribly biased, stereotypical, and generalized statements about part of the melting pot of communities in this game makes you far more toxic than most of the people who actually engage in PvP or play on PvP servers.

Edited April 24, 2014 by SolidSp33d

[SolidSp33d]

Boy I regret linking the thread in that other one. It was directed at Aigloblam. Take that as you will, because I know will twist it how you want.

 

This isn't a PvP community arguement thread, btw. This is a feedback and discussion thread about this idea.

 

And I have never seen such a small community of PVP'ers in such uproar over PVP having 0 priority in a PVE game.

 

It isn't in an uproar our that first of all. It never has been, most of the community understands that. They just expect not to have people down their neck when they mention ideas for PvP.

 

And btw, I'm not part of the Warframe PvP community.

 

I'm not up for derailing my thread or dancing in a circle with your shenanigans. I'd like to keep this thread clean enough for Steve to actually get ideas (Which is just the upper half of this thread atm), not whining about non-existent issues, biases, and ill perceived evidence. Obviously you wouldn't agree to that, but I can say a lot about you yourself. I'll hold off on that.

 

That's being snappier than I should in a thread I sent to the devs, but I think it's also something they should see. Better they are aware of meaningless tension than ignorant of it. Although they've obviously seen a lot of it, and have the balls to make decisions or think towards these things regardless, as they should. (Coptering being one example, and the fact more PvP has always been planned if you took a few seconds to look around)

[DiabolusUrsus]

OP: No sheep, please.
Sheep: You called?

 

To be honest, though, I'm not particularly enthused about this idea. It sounds nice, but it's more applicable to games like Dark Souls that don't require any transitional loads. When I think about this system in Warframe, the first thing I see in my head is "Host Migration Host Migration Host Migration Host Migration Host Migration." The dynamic entry of other players strikes me as a huge problem, and I don't think that this stands to contribute enough to the game experience to be worthwhile. 

Not that your ideas are in any way bad. Dark Souls definitely had a great multiplayer system that integrated well into its ongoing experience, but I don't think this is the place for something like that. 

[Dogoframe]

Bring PvP, bring it big and bring it fast.

 

I just cant wait to laugh my sheep @ss off when the Carebear Slaughter Squad gets Conclave with all its "balance" in the Dark Sectors and cry bloody murder about it on the forums.

 

Do it DE, do it now please.

 

OP: No sheep, please.
Sheep: You called?

 

Yes, because we know the best way to start a solid debate is to generalise the opposition and kindly ask them to ignore your thread, by calling them tame animals.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Dogoframe

[avinity8]

Lmfaoooo Dogoframe, man I hate you. Im visiting my grandma atm and she was telling me something serioud, tho im on mobile browsing, you made me literally LOL while she was talkin, lmao

Carebear Slaughter Squad, lmfaoooo.

At the guy who mentioned me earlier, expect me to be hunting you down in the near future. Im gonna take my fang primes and just shread the stuffing from your carebear frame =D

PVP is the future, therefore your death by hands is unavoidable =D

[Dogoframe]

And i can't wait for the above poster to realise PVP is 100% unimportant in this game and the Devs don't care about it.

That it is unimportant to me I realised long ago.

 

That the Devs dont care about it? Not sure! If Steve's words are to be taken as the OP took them, they will not only be adding more PvP to WF but also include it in what is considered Endgame.

 

I like my PvP in games that were designed with it mind, preferably games I feel have a solid direction taken by their publishers. Warframe lacks both IMHO.

 

But apparently DE does care about the people who ignore Conclaves (PvP already in game) and improvements to it to instead go the Dark Souls route. Their decision in the end, as always, and we can rage and moan and cry bloody murder, and nothing will change. We will get a "working on it, soon" on a livestream and scree for platinum and the girls as always.

 

So yeah, I radically changed my opinion on PvP in Warframe. I really do want to see it implemented and fast. Again, I cant wait to see the PvP crowd get what they wished for, only not.

 

PVP is the future, therefore your death by hands is unavoidable =D

 

Good luck finding me in any PvP node. I will be where the real PvP is in Warframe, the forums.

[LukeAura]

And i can't wait for the above poster to realise PVP is 100% unimportant in this game and the Devs don't care about it.

There has been a recent Rise in players voicing ideas and supporting PvP.

as well as a Rise in Dev interest on PvP. As per the Steve's quote that PvP is going to be a continued area they're going to explore with the Dark Sectors.

 

[avinity8]

Dogoframe, I said the guy who quoted me earlier is who I want. But I will get you too for lulz JK =D

[Dogoframe]

Dogoframe, I said the guy who quoted me earlier is who I want. But I will get you too for lulz JK =D

 

Get me too... Hmm...

 

From the poor writing and attitude, I am supposing you are a young male. Sorry, I dont swing that way.

 

If you meant fight me in PvP, unless they add the option to attack players in other nodes or in the starchart, I again wish you good luck.

 

Edit: Unless it is in a proper PvP game... For old times DE's sake, Epic Boy CTF 1vs1? MY HOUSE!!!

Edited April 24, 2014 by Dogoframe

[SolidSp33d]

 

Yes, because we know the best way to start a solid debate is to generalise the opposition and kindly ask them to ignore your thread, by calling them tame animals.

 

 

I'm pretty sure at the start of this thread I specifically point out the type of people I was talking about.

I generalized no one as sheep. My use of the word sheep was deliberate in itself in who I was describing. Those just just pop in and mindless say no cause that's what the crowd is doing.

 

Fair enough.

I did say the "sheep" as in those who don't know what they are talking about and give arguments like a drugged politician. So as long as you're not that, we're good.

 

So, yeah.

 

OP: No sheep, please.

Sheep: You called?

 

To be honest, though, I'm not particularly enthused about this idea. It sounds nice, but it's more applicable to games like Dark Souls that don't require any transitional loads. When I think about this system in Warframe, the first thing I see in my head is "Host Migration Host Migration Host Migration Host Migration Host Migration." The dynamic entry of other players strikes me as a huge problem, and I don't think that this stands to contribute enough to the game experience to be worthwhile. 

Not that your ideas are in any way bad. Dark Souls definitely had a great multiplayer system that integrated well into its ongoing experience, but I don't think this is the place for something like that. 

 

Thanks for actually giving some feedback on the topic. (It sucks not having mods here as often as in GD to keep a thread on rails)

Yeah, the whole connection thing is an issue, but didn't Dark Souls 1 have a lot of that two? I remember hearing that Dark Souls didn't have dedicated servers. Didn't the series just get that with Dark Souls 2? It had it's problems with connections, but worked well enough from what I noticed. It wouldn't be any different than the host migration shenanigans we have in regular missions I'd imagine.

 

I'm looking more at the gameplay mechanics/philosophy with this one. There are always technical kinks to work out, which I don't think would be TOO much trouble here.

[Zeromanicus]

Pretty sure by VS. it meant, two teams doing PvE competing directly against each other for some sort of score.

 

Some sort of ritualised Tenno warrior sport by which they decide conflicts and disputes without harming each other directly would be incredibly cool.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Zeromanicus

[SolidSp33d]

There has been a recent Rise in players voicing ideas and supporting PvP.

as well as a Rise in Dev interest on PvP. As per the Steve's quote that PvP is going to be a continued area they're going to explore with the Dark Sectors.

 

 

True, but I wouldn't even bother trying to converse with him. That's a personal recommendation.

He'll just keep conversation on the pointless argument track.

[avinity8]

Get me too... Hmm...

 

From the poor writing and attitude, I am supposing you are a young male. Sorry, I dont swing that way.

 

If you meant fight me in PvP, unless they add the option to attack players in other nodes or in the starchart, I again wish you good luck.

 

Edit: Unless it is in a proper PvP game... For old times DE's sake, Epic Boy CTF 1vs1? MY HOUSE!!!

Poor writing? It may not be superb but its far from poor. I do fine to be on mobile. Also, your grammar isnt superb itself.

Tell me more about my attitude... Too many of you geezers and kids are too rash in judgement. Taking obvious joke posts too serious... I love being a young male =D

[SolidSp33d]

Pretty sure by VS. it meant, two teams doing PvE competing directly against each other for some sort of score.

 

The whole Dark Sectors are basically that already.

[SolidSp33d]

Poor writing? It may not be superb but its far from poor. I do fine to be on mobile. Also, your grammar isnt superb itself.

Tell me more about my attitude... Too many of you geezers and kids are too rash in judgement. Taking obvious joke posts too serious... I love being a young male =D

 

Both of you should chill out a bit. Regardless of who's at fault or whatever misunderstanding, it's probably not a big deal anyway.

Let's try to get things back on the civil route shall we? I'm tired of every PvP conversation ending with shenanigans. Let's have it round out with decency and an actual development of the proposal at hand.

 

Especially since Rebecca will be forwarding this to Steve.