Parrying Is Unreliable And Therefore Usless

[Deidaku]

I've done some tests and it seems that the staggering mechaninc has a pretty low proc chance.

 

 

So low that just hitting the damn enemy  and upping your meter  instead of blocking and trying to counterattack is the most efficient way to deal damage.

 

 

I though it was supposed to be one of the main "cool things" coming in melee 2.0 , lie chaining attack's ( the scino and rhino animation ) ........

 

It should be made more responsive and proc more. We're back to the stage no one's gonna try and block a melee enemy again.....-_-

[Lorane_Airwing]

agreed, it's only worth bothering if you have the +96% chance mod for it. Why reward player timing or skill when they can grind for a mod?

[DoomsDayDan]

You can't even interrupt combos by blocking so you can't quickly react to incoming attacks if you're too busy pulling off sick sword stunts

[Ammolds]

I've done some tests and it seems that the staggering mechaninc has a pretty low proc chance.

 

 

So low that just hitting the damn enemy  and upping your meter  instead of blocking and trying to counterattack is the most efficient way to deal damage.

 

 

I though it was supposed to be one of the main "cool things" coming in melee 2.0 , lie chaining attack's ( the scino and rhino animation ) ........

 

It should be made more responsive and proc more. We're back to the stage no one's gonna try and block a melee enemy again.....-_-

 

Sho... a little light on how to effectively do counter attacks. More importantly how to get the window for it.

 

Each weapon seems to have a different base Stagger %.

 

Channeling while blocking melee blows will improve the chance to stagger, dramatically. Especially with a maxed Parry mod equipped.

 

Personal experience seems to point out that swords/daggers have a higher Stagger base value than more heavier and bluntier weapons. I've personally tried the Scindo on the heavy end. It is a noticeable change in the chance to get a stagger, even with channel, compared to the Skana, for instance.

 

 

Hidden stats are hidden.

 

Would be neat to get the base value on the weapon stats and maybe even tell us how much the channeling boosts that value, DE.

[KoshLovesYou]

I've noticed its super unreliable when trying to block an Ancient Disruptor to prevent their energy drain as well, sadly. Better off just rolling away. Even WITH a Parry mod maxed out.

Edited April 25, 2014 by KoshLovesYou

[Dogoframe]

Hidden stats are hidden.

 

Would be neat to get the base value on the weapon stats and maybe even tell us how much the channeling boosts that value, DE.

 

Bloody casual, this is Digital EXTREMES! If you want percentages, values, accurate information in our Beta YOU DO THE MATH. Our Patch Notes are for marketing Tenno Reinforcements.

 

Unless you want percentages for drops and chances. Those are DE's intelectual property and you are better off not knowing them, believe it.

[Ammolds]

Bloody casual, this is Digital EXTREMES! If you want percentages, values, accurate information in our Beta YOU DO THE MATH. Our Patch Notes are for marketing Tenno Reinforcements.

 

Unless you want percentages for drops and chances. Those are DE's intelectual property and you are better off not knowing them, believe it.

 

Because clearly having a stat value represented in the Arsenal would ruin the game. Except not.

 

Not everyone's good at math. Not everyone likes to crunch numbers.

 

Convenience is good. Especially if we're looking at new players.

 

 

Sarcasm or no sarcasm. Throwing around the "casual" word only starts flame wars.

[Dogoframe]

My posts on the matter looked like this before they went Jerk Mode: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/220066-patch-notes-another-try/#entry2550291

 

I dont even think the community cares about it, really. You occasionally read a post asking for more in-depth information, but I guess people just got used to having to crunch numbers for trivial stuff in Warframe. Melee 2.0 came and melee weaponry STILL doent show the 2 (sometimes different) critical chance values. Not one stance was explained in depth by the Dev Team. No clues such as "Longsword Stances use this X multiplier generally, while Dagger Stances were designed to be such and such". We watch the Livestream, see the cool animations, and if we want in depth information about a game we are beta testing, WE do the math. 

 

It was always my pet peeve with DE.

 

But point taken, next time I post a sour, sarcastic poke, I will avoid using casual for fire security sake.

 

Edit and On Topic: OP, did you see any difference while hosting? I managed to get counters while hosting but not as a guest.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Dogoframe

[LGear]

 

 

It should be made more responsive and proc more. We're back to the stage no one's gonna try and block a melee enemy again.....-_-

 

To be fair, most melee enemies can be killed faster than they can deal damage to you, and the ones with the attacks you'd want to block (like Ancients) throw you back so far that you can't counterattack against them anyway.

 

 

I've noticed its super unreliable when trying to block an Ancient Disruptor to prevent their energy drain as well, sadly. Better off just rolling away. Even WITH a Parry mod maxed out.

 

If it's blocking, I've successfully blocked Ancient Disruptors reliably, saved my bacon a few times. You get knocked back, but you don't get knocked down at least.

Edited April 25, 2014 by LGear

[Dogoframe]

I think the OP means being able to get a Finisher Move after blocking a melee attack. I can be wrong tho.

[Ammolds]

I think the OP means being able to get a Finisher Move after blocking a melee attack. I can be wrong tho.

 

Yep, he does and we're following. The Stagger is the opening you need to perform the finisher.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Ammolds

[Ammolds]

My posts on the matter looked like this before they went Jerk Mode: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/220066-patch-notes-another-try/#entry2550291

 

I dont even think the community cares about it, really. You occasionally read a post asking for more in-depth information, but I guess people just got used to having to crunch numbers for trivial stuff in Warframe. Melee 2.0 came and melee weaponry STILL doent show the 2 (sometimes different) critical chance values. Not one stance was explained in depth by the Dev Team. No clues such as "Longsword Stances use this X multiplier generally, while Dagger Stances were designed to be such and such". We watch the Livestream, see the cool animations, and if we want in depth information about a game we are beta testing, WE do the math. 

 

It was always my pet peeve with DE.

 

But point taken, next time I post a sour, sarcastic poke, I will avoid using casual for fire security sake.

 

Edit and On Topic: OP, did you see any difference while hosting? I managed to get counters while hosting but not as a guest.

 

True, in its current state, the only legitimately good use I have for it, is when I'm trying out melee builds on Ceres.

 

I use channeled finishers, in combination with Life Strike to more-less safely heal through melee.

 

EDIT: I've also always loved finishers in games, so for me. They are a load of fun to do.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Ammolds

[DoomsDayDan]

I'll never understand why they gave us channeling damage values back when U13 hit and then later decided that we don't deserve to know

[Dogoframe]

I'll never understand why they gave us channeling damage values back when U13 hit and then later decided that we don't deserve to know

I am really happy someone else noticed. I thought I was going crazy(ier). https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/210811-hotfix-1303-ui-doesnt-show-channeling-damage-anymore/

[Xylia]

Meh, far simpler to just chop chop.

 

And that's the whole trouble with the system -- if it is going to be difficult to do, it needs to be rewarding to compensate for it.

 

But... how can something feel "rewarding" when there's something else that is 10x easier to do that does the job just fine? I can either spam the E key and kill it in 2 seconds or I can try and line up this absolutely perfect right mouse button click and hope it works. If it doesn't, I either wasted my time, or worse, I clicked a second too late and got nailed. Either way by the time I recover from that, I'm going to end up just chop chopping him anyways; shoulda just done that in the first place.

 

And even if it DOES work, I'm standing still while doing this 2-3 second finisher attack (which does look cool, I'll give it that), if I had just chop chopped the guy I'd already be running on to my next kill.

 

Finishing Moves should maybe grant 3x Experience or something to make it worthwhile to do that instead of just mowing everybody down with regular attacks. Even the combos can be difficult to actually use due to positioning and travel as well as how picky the inputs are. Usually, we end up going EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE and not care about the combos anyways. The only reason we pull our sword out is so we can block gunfire.

 

So......thusfar, for me, Melee 2.0 = The ability to block gunfire, and extra mod points on a weapon if I get extremely lucky with the lottery. Oh, and a bit more damage with melee attacks.

[Deidaku]

My posts on the matter looked like this before they went Jerk Mode: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/220066-patch-notes-another-try/#entry2550291

 

I dont even think the community cares about it, really. You occasionally read a post asking for more in-depth information, but I guess people just got used to having to crunch numbers for trivial stuff in Warframe. Melee 2.0 came and melee weaponry STILL doent show the 2 (sometimes different) critical chance values. Not one stance was explained in depth by the Dev Team. No clues such as "Longsword Stances use this X multiplier generally, while Dagger Stances were designed to be such and such". We watch the Livestream, see the cool animations, and if we want in depth information about a game we are beta testing, WE do the math. 

 

It was always my pet peeve with DE.

 

But point taken, next time I post a sour, sarcastic poke, I will avoid using casual for fire security sake.

 

Edit and On Topic: OP, did you see any difference while hosting? I managed to get counters while hosting but not as a guest.

Not really man; I tried solo , I tried with a clanmate as host , a pub host.....no change , it's still too unreliable man :/

 

 

 

Meh, far simpler to just chop chop.

 

And that's the whole trouble with the system -- if it is going to be difficult to do, it needs to be rewarding to compensate for it.

 

But... how can something feel "rewarding" when there's something else that is 10x easier to do that does the job just fine? I can either spam the E key and kill it in 2 seconds or I can try and line up this absolutely perfect right mouse button click and hope it works. If it doesn't, I either wasted my time, or worse, I clicked a second too late and got nailed. Either way by the time I recover from that, I'm going to end up just chop chopping him anyways; shoulda just done that in the first place.

 

And even if it DOES work, I'm standing still while doing this 2-3 second finisher attack (which does look cool, I'll give it that), if I had just chop chopped the guy I'd already be running on to my next kill.

 

Finishing Moves should maybe grant 3x Experience or something to make it worthwhile to do that instead of just mowing everybody down with regular attacks. Even the combos can be difficult to actually use due to positioning and travel as well as how picky the inputs are. Usually, we end up going EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE and not care about the combos anyways. The only reason we pull our sword out is so we can block gunfire.

 

So......thusfar, for me, Melee 2.0 = The ability to block gunfire, and extra mod points on a weapon if I get extremely lucky with the lottery. Oh, and a bit more damage with melee attacks.

FInisher moves should just  be FASTER  and seemless.

 

See the scythe finisher? it should be so fluid that I could chain another enemy nearby? not enter Jojo's bizarre adventure pose....

[Dogoframe]

Not really man; I tried solo , I tried with a clanmate as host , a pub host.....no change , it's still too unreliable man :/

 

 

 

Yeah, I cant get any consistency in Reposte Attacks (can I borrow the D&D term?), but I did manage some while Solo, and none as a guest.

[LazyKnight]

Try using the retribution mod. When the proc is triggered it allows the parry move on the electrocuted NPC. It is RNG based, but it does increase the odds of being able to counter on NPC (just not players, but I haven't tested it in PVP).

[Deidaku]

Try using the retribution mod. When the proc is triggered it allows the parry move on the electrocuted NPC. It is RNG based, but it does increase the odds of being able to counter on NPC (just not players, but I haven't tested it in PVP).

That the problem , I shouldn't need this mod to do that. I have it btw 

[LazyKnight]

I agree. It should not require a mod to be able to use a skill.

 

It should be that blocking interputs any, and all, animations sequences if the timming coinsisdes with a blocked hit a parry is auto triggered. There should be zero RNG involved in any counter system.

[Shadow-Blades]

agreed, it's only worth bothering if you have the +96% chance mod for it. Why reward player timing or skill when they can grind for a mod?

 

I'm not entirely sure what this mod acutally does. I think it's supposed to auto-counter for you with a 96% chance at max (and I have had this happen before), but at the same time I find that I stagger enemies more often when using it.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Shadow-Blades

[LGear]

I'll never understand why they gave us channeling damage values back when U13 hit and then later decided that we don't deserve to know

 

Those weren't channeling damage values though, those were Charged damage values. But since weapons don't deal Charged damage anymore, they were removed. We know that Channeling adds +50% to weapon damage, which doesn't correlate with the charge damage values when Update 13 launched (the Galatine IIRC had a charged attack damage of 200 when U13 hit, but it only had a melee attack damage of 44).

Edited April 26, 2014 by LGear

[Noble_Cactus]

Yeah, there's not a lot of fluidity in Melee 2.0. I was under the impression that you'd have to time a block before a melee hit connects in order to parry, and I believe that was even mentioned explicitly in a livestream. But like so much of the update (and WF in general), we got the Fischer Priced, rushed, half-baked version.

[ScarletDial]

You can't even interrupt combos by blocking so you can't quickly react to incoming attacks if you're too busy pulling off sick sword stunts

 

This. This is the worst S#&$. Whoever came into the office during the last scrapped version and told them to drop it all and start again has obviously literally never played an action game in their life. Probably including warframe.

Edited April 26, 2014 by ScarletDial

[Deidaku]

Tried out the parrying mod...

 

as I though. TO be viable the mechaninc requires this mod at all costs.. otherwise its pointless.

 

WHY IS IT A MOD?