Phage Vs Synapse [End-Game Build]

[Hellbuster]

i need good one beam gun that can handle lvl 30 + enemy with full build , which one is better ?

[Jamescell]

Depends on how quickly you want to kill enemies. Synapse will run dry in ammo after a while but it will kill faster, opposite of the phage. 

[smithf]

i think both can handle lvl 30 + enemies pretty well. Think it is more a personal preference of the firing mechanism etc.

Synapse is still a "gun". So you shoot it.

Phage is really a multi-prong lightsaber. You activate it, then wave it around :)

[Darzk]

Synapse has a LOT more endgame DPS.

 

Compare Synapse to Phage against a lvl 50 Corrupted Heavy Gunner, getting headshots (2250 armor):

 

Synapse

19325.44 Corrosive = (4x headshot) 77301.76 = (modifiers) 135278.08 = (armor) 47053.25 DPS

 

 

Phage

Viral = 3793.35 = (x2.2 headshot) 8345.37 = (mod) 14604.3975 = (armor) 1718.16 Viral DPS

Fire = 2276.01= 736.36 Fire DPS

Corrosive = 11380.05 = 15239.37 Corrosive DPS

TOTAL = 17693.89 total DPS

 

 

 

So you can see that the Phage doesnt really come anywhere near Synapse's DPS in endgame. Add in a half second to focus the beams, and its not even close. The Synapse does 2.65x more DPS than the Phage.

[Hellbuster]

Synapse has a LOT more endgame DPS.

 

Compare Synapse to Phage against a lvl 50 Corrupted Heavy Gunner, getting headshots (2250 armor):

 

Synapse

19325.44 Corrosive = (4x headshot) 77301.76 = (modifiers) 135278.08 = (armor) 47053.25 DPS

 

 

Phage

Viral = 3793.35 = (x2.2 headshot) 8345.37 = (mod) 14604.3975 = (armor) 1718.16 Viral DPS

Fire = 2276.01= 736.36 Fire DPS

Corrosive = 11380.05 = 15239.37 Corrosive DPS

TOTAL = 17693.89 total DPS

 

 

 

So you can see that the Phage doesnt really come anywhere near Synapse's DPS in endgame. Add in a half second to focus the beams, and its not even close. The Synapse does 2.65x more DPS than the Phage.

you forgot something ?

synapse ammo lost per seconcond : 10-13

phage ammo lost per second :1-2

so both can kill high lvl enemy but depends on how fast you want to kill your enemy right ?

[Incarmine]

There's also the immediacy of the weapon. Phage takes time for the beams converge. Synapse shoots out instantly. I have both guns but have favored the synapse for this reason.

 

Ammo consumption can be taken care of with clan ammo restores if you have access to them. I have the ten pack blueprint and I never have to worry about running out of ammo.

 

However, I think boltor prime greatly overtakes both guns but between the two guns you listed, I'd take synapse.

Edited April 27, 2014 by (PS4)Incarmine

[(PSN)witch3rDC52]

Synapse has a LOT more endgame DPS.

 

Compare Synapse to Phage against a lvl 50 Corrupted Heavy Gunner, getting headshots (2250 armor):

 

Synapse

19325.44 Corrosive = (4x headshot) 77301.76 = (modifiers) 135278.08 = (armor) 47053.25 DPS

 

 

Phage

Viral = 3793.35 = (x2.2 headshot) 8345.37 = (mod) 14604.3975 = (armor) 1718.16 Viral DPS

Fire = 2276.01= 736.36 Fire DPS

Corrosive = 11380.05 = 15239.37 Corrosive DPS

TOTAL = 17693.89 total DPS

 

 

 

So you can see that the Phage doesnt really come anywhere near Synapse's DPS in endgame. Add in a half second to focus the beams, and its not even close. The Synapse does 2.65x more DPS than the Phage.

So why isn't corrosive counted in headshot damage for the Phage when you count it for the Synapse?  You only counted the viral.  What makes corrosive on the Phage different?  I would think if corrosive gets the 4X headshot, then the Phage would get a lot closer with combined viral and Corrosive.

 

Fire wouldn't even be in the setup for the Phage. Elements would be Electric, Cold and Toxin only so I would think there would be extra corrosive damage for the Phage as the shotgun has two mods apiece for Electric and Toxin.  Add in Accelerated Blast or Shotgun Spazz and Vicious Spread plus you have to count the status chance for Viral due to possibly using two status mods. 

 

My thought is Phage is as much in the endgame as the Synapse.  It's all in how you mod it since for basic generic dps comparison purposes, Phase DPS is 21.1k and Synapse is 16.1k.  Phage currently is the highest DPS weapon in the game with Boltor Prime right behind it at 20.9k.

[Darzk]

So why isn't corrosive counted in headshot damage for the Phage when you count it for the Synapse?  You only counted the viral.  What makes corrosive on the Phage different?  I would think if corrosive gets the 4X headshot, then the Phage would get a lot closer with combined viral and Corrosive.

 

Corrosive doesnt get the 4x damage, Synapse does, because crit headshots do 4x damage and synapse always crits. 

Phage crits 10% of the time, so 10% of the time it does 4x damage and 90% of the time it does 2x damage = 2.2x damage on average.

 

Fire wouldn't even be in the setup for the Phage. Elements would be Electric, Cold and Toxin only so I would think there would be extra corrosive damage for the Phage as the shotgun has two mods apiece for Electric and Toxin.  Add in Accelerated Blast or Shotgun Spazz and Vicious Spread plus you have to count the status chance for Viral due to possibly using two status mods. 

 

Fire is included because of the Blaze mod, which adds to the base damage as well and is very helpful. Did you even look at the build I linked? The event mods, VS and SS are included. Possibly AB instead of Blaze would up the DPS, but it wouldn't be by much if at all (-21.4% dmg -60% fire for +31.5% RoF).

 

Viral proc is mostly irrelevant because its something like one proc every 3-4 seconds of focused fire on average, and mostly stuff will be dead before it procs. Its a low enough chance I'm not sure how to quantify it, but it would only be worth any substantial contribution at very high levels, and then it only counts once, and the higher health pool makes the 2.65x more DPS of the Synapse more easily catch up. 

 

My thought is Phage is as much in the endgame as the Synapse.  It's all in how you mod it since for basic generic dps comparison purposes, Phase DPS is 21.1k and Synapse is 16.1k.  Phage currently is the highest DPS weapon in the game with Boltor Prime right behind it at 20.9k.

Raw numbers DO NOT MATTER. The numbers relevant are after applicable modifiers. Boltor Prime might stand a chance of catching up, because it's base damage is mostly piercing, which has a decent modifier against Ferrite armor (more powerful than Viral at higher levels).

 

Please, show me your Phage build if you think mine is non-optimal, and I'll show you how it still breaks down to less DPS than the Synapse.

 

 

synapse ammo lost per seconcond : 10-13

phage ammo lost per second :1-2

 

Rifle ammo is roughly 3-4x more common than Shotgun ammo, but agreed, the Synapse does consume ammo faster. However a relative ~2.1x ammo consumption rate is more than made up for by the 2.65x DPS. If you were concerned for ammo consumption, replacing Speed Trigger on the Synapse build with an event mod will up the damage/ammo a bit, but decrease DPS. 

 

 

There's also the immediacy of the weapon. Phage takes time for the beams converge. Synapse shoots out instantly. I have both guns but have favored the synapse for this reason.

 

Ammo consumption can be taken care of with clan ammo restores if you have access to them. I have the ten pack blueprint and I never have to worry about running out of ammo.

 

However, I think boltor prime greatly overtakes both guns but between the two guns you listed, I'd take synapse.

 

Agreed, the convergence trigger is great for crowd control but sucks when trying to burst down heavies. 

 

I'll take a look at Boltor Prime, but I hate doing the math on it due to the IPS spread meaning 2x the work, lol.

[Darzk]

By popular request, Boltor Prime!

 

Same enemy, 2250 Ferrite armor, 2.1x headshot multiplier

 

686.24 Impact = 127.16 Impact DPS

6725.6 Puncture = 4460.13 Puncture DPS

22235.52 Corrosive = 28422.8 Corrosive DPS

 

Total = 33010.1 Total DPS

 

So the Synapse still pulls 42.5% more DPS, and the same ammo consumption this time.

[_daVinci_]

Where does soma stand in all of this?

[Darzk]

Where does soma stand in all of this?

 

Depends on how you build it. Personally I would put neither HCal nor Speed Trigger on it, which it needs to contend for top DPS slots.

 

Max Corrosive DPS Soma (75% crit = 3.5x HS modifier)

 

1019.5 Impact = 314.85 Impact DPS

4078.5 Puncture = 4507.82 Puncture DPS

5098.1 Slash = 2039.24 Slash DPS

18353.04 Corrosive = 39099.95 Corrosive DPS

 

= 45961.86 DPS total

 

However, now we're using a ridiculous 24 ammo per second, plus Soma has a slight spinup time, plus with HCal now you're basically at the same range restriction as Synapse in order to maintain headshots, plus Synapse will pull even farther ahead if we go to higher levels.

 

Ultimately, all of this is pointless as pistols have far higher DPS potential due to better mods. None of the rifles come close to Brakk, Marelok, or basically any non-lato akimbo pistol.

[BaSiLB]

By popular request, Boltor Prime!

 

Same enemy, 2250 Ferrite armor, 2.1x headshot multiplier

 

686.24 Impact = 127.16 Impact DPS

6725.6 Puncture = 4460.13 Puncture DPS

22235.52 Corrosive = 28422.8 Corrosive DPS

 

Total = 33010.1 Total DPS

 

So the Synapse still pulls 42.5% more DPS, and the same ammo consumption this time.

why no bane ? ^^

[smithf]

hmm we seems to be moving away from the context of lvl 30+ enemies? (to end-game comparison).

 

Anyway, just to point out that we may need to consider crowd DPS as well, to be fair, since phage is mostly a anti-crowd weapon.

Some non-numerical properties are hard to quantify as well (e.g. I often use a max-puncture phage to fire through walls/obstacles to hit enemies without being exposed. This is one instance where I actually find Helios useful, because when it starts to scan nearby targets, it often reveals unseen enemies). Phage also has better status chance, that when buffed, can be better applied to a group of enemies, and the ammo-efficiency (pointed out many times) makes it gleeful to use (press the fire-button and wave it around until it finally have to reload ~ 40 seconds later)

 

Note: I am not pro-phage nor anti-synapse (in fact, I like synapse a lot!). Just highlighting the other factors since DPS-wise, synapse is obviously the better, from earlier posts.

 

But all in all, I like both weapons, and I think their mechanics are different enough that I don't really feel one could replace the other. If OP needs to really just chose one, I would suggest picking one that complements his playing style better.

[(PSN)DrunkenHULK88]

can anyone suggest a good solid build for void endgame ( i mostly have trouble in survivor up till 30min+)? for phage and synapse.

i have horrible internet so head shot are practically impossible as enemies jump here and there.

[smithf]

I can't guarantee that my builds are optimal, but I have been using corrosive builds for T3 up to 40+. My rationale is that for lower level enemies, I can probably 1/2 shot them. For anything above, at least corrosive can debuff the armor such that subsequent hits are more effective.  Among all other damage types, this seems to be the one that "scales" better with increasing enemy levels (since corrosive debuff by percentage, rather than a fixed amount, and that multiple debuff stacks seems to be possible)

[(PSN)ShadowDancing-]

Phage is a lot better if you think of it as the Infested version of Ignis instead of a rifle. Loads of fun, good CC. Not remotely in the same league as synapse,soma,boltor p for single target damage

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

Phage is a lot better if you think of it as the Infested version of Ignis instead of a rifle. Loads of fun, good CC. Not remotely in the same league as synapse,soma,boltor p for single target damage

 

 

Infested Ignis = Embolist.

It is an Infested Shotgun, and let's leave it there lol. Most shotguns are poor at single target damage.

The Phage is better in working multiple roles, being able to switch from CC to single-target while maintaining good ammo-consumption. Synapse can not do that, which is why I prefer the Phage. The Synapse definitely hits harder, though.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Angelus_de_Mortiel

[Wahooo]

 

However, now we're using a ridiculous 24 ammo per second, plus Soma has a slight spinup time, plus with HCal now you're basically at the same range restriction as Synapse in order to maintain headshots, plus Synapse will pull even farther ahead if we go to higher levels.

 

Not going to debate most of your points. i'm certainly not going to take the time to do or check the math, and as you said raw numbers don't matter and I think you've done a superb job of explaining the real usage differences between them all.

 

But where Soma/BoltorP are still usable these points on the Soma are pretty meh.  24 ammo per second is a problem if you have no punch through and are just holding down full auto.  With max speed trigger the spin up is almost completely negated, and if you use Shred instead of Speed trigger your effective DPS is increased because by the time these numbers matter when are you not shooting into a crowd?  The spin up is hardly noticeable.

Max HC is far less noticeable on the Soma than it is on the BoltorP.  Headshots are still realistic at 2x the effective distance of shotguns.

 

But yeah T3S past 30mins the Soma just can't keep up.  But anything below that enemy level wise it is all overkill and the only thing that actually matters is play style.