A Practical Solution For Molecular Prime Nerf/rework

[Blatantfool]

I still haven't seen a convincing argument as to why Nova's MPrime is game-breaking. It just stomps mudholes in low and medium level mobs. Then again - any Ult should be able to do that. You never, EVER balance a game around the lower level enemies. You absolutely have to balance things based on how powerful later enemies can be. Since enemies in Warframe scale upwards forever the best frames tend to be the ones with overblown abilities.

One change I could see happening that wouldn't really be all that aggravating is a range decrease and a change to how the skill spreads. This wouldn't even be a nerf, just a change to how you have to use the skill to force you to be a little more active.

Think like this.

- AoE of the initial Prime decreased. It is now much closer ranged but otherwise works the same.

- These primed enemies will explode on death, harming nearby foes. Just like now.

- Unlike how MPrime works now, if an enemy survives an MPrime blast from a dying ally they will now become Primed.

So MPrime is still lethal and all - but now it starts small and allows you to spread it among incoming mobs.

[Rakosta_Kai]

I don't foresee Nova getting nerfed as hard as folks think.

 

Yes, she is OP... But as long as her starting attributes are as low as they are, you are going to continue to see her with high damage/cc abilities to account for it. I'm expecting it's %damage to get the actual change, not the rest of it's mechanics.

 

Same thing for Trinity really... I don't expect the Invincibility to go away, just get tuned to not be affected by duration mods. It will probably also not extend to other teammates anymore.

[Azawarau]

I still haven't seen a convincing argument as to why Nova's MPrime is game-breaking. It just stomps mudholes in low and medium level mobs. Then again - any Ult should be able to do that. You never, EVER balance a game around the lower level enemies. You absolutely have to balance things based on how powerful later enemies can be. Since enemies in Warframe scale upwards forever the best frames tend to be the ones with overblown abilities.

One change I could see happening that wouldn't really be all that aggravating is a range decrease and a change to how the skill spreads. This wouldn't even be a nerf, just a change to how you have to use the skill to force you to be a little more active.

Think like this.

- AoE of the initial Prime decreased. It is now much closer ranged but otherwise works the same.

- These primed enemies will explode on death, harming nearby foes. Just like now.

- Unlike how MPrime works now, if an enemy survives an MPrime blast from a dying ally they will now become Primed.

So MPrime is still lethal and all - but now it starts small and allows you to spread it among incoming mobs.

I dont think she needs a nerf really either

 

 

Her only downsides are slowing infested waves and annoying people in low tier missions

 

The idea was to make people stop complaining about her by offering an alternative but effective M prime

I don't foresee Nova getting nerfed as hard as folks think.

 

Yes, she is OP... But as long as her starting attributes are as low as they are, you are going to continue to see her with high damage/cc abilities to account for it. I'm expecting it's %damage to get the actual change, not the rest of it's mechanics.

 

Same thing for Trinity really... I don't expect the Invincibility to go away, just get tuned to not be affected by duration mods. It will probably also not extend to other teammates anymore.

Id dont consider nova to be OP myself

 

And i dont mind her speeding missions though i do empathize with people that dislike her speedy coptering 4 hit kill (yes, i did make that joke)

[Tsunero]

It does not need a nerf, period.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Momo93

[ZWarhammer]

#delete = solution

[Dualstar]

My advice?

 

Put this thread in Frames & Abilities where it belongs.

 

Hot topic =/= general discussion.

[Azawarau]

My advice?

 

Put this thread in Frames & Abilities where it belongs.

 

Hot topic =/= general discussion

Technically it fits with general discussion as well to b fair

[DJ_Redwire]

While it's not the whole issue, one aspect of Molecular Prime that I want DE to change is how it interacts with enemies similar to how Chaos effects enemies. That particular aspect I'm talking about is: You are not allowed to re-cast Molecular Prime until...

 

A. The enemies that are coated with M Prime are all dead

 

OR

 

B. The duration for M Prime ends and the enemies are no longer coated in it

 

Which ever comes first.

Edited April 28, 2014 by DJ_Redwire

[CY13ERPUNK]

ok here we go, FLAME ON!

remember when Booben got 'nerfed'? ya? ok yer OG, no? well basically Bastille used to be able to hold an indefinite amount of baddies up in stasis, so as long as u had one bastile up, u could hold back infested from defense mission as long as u had energy to recast, the 'nerf' was giving bastille a tgt cap, thus now Booben has to actually throw a cpl of them down to hold back the hordes occasionally

if u already c where im going with this, here's a cookie, yer one of the sharp ones

MolePrime needs a target cap, say 5/10/15/20 (4 ranks) enhanceable with power mods (focus/blind rage)

ADDITIONALLY, MolePrime keeps extra dmg on tgts, say maybe 1.5x instead of 2x (not enhanceable, or base 1x, but enhanceable), and keeps the slow, but maybe the slow is 10/20/30/40% (4 ranks, not enhancable)

ADDITIONALLY MolePrime debuffs above apply to all tgts, but tgts do NOT explode when killed by ANY means, they ONLY explode and thus chain when killed with Nova's #1 or her #2

basically Nova 'primes' her tgts, but a bullet isnt going to trigger it, it requires her specific antimatter power to 'nova' her primed tgts

my proposed changes do a lot of things:

A - it makes nova's kit complementary and work together as a package

B - tones her down WITHOUT taking away her power, she'd still be awesome with these changes (just like Booben is still awesome)

C - sets the stage for ALL 'massive aoe dmg' ults to get tgt hard caps (things like nyx chaos or loki radial dont need tgt caps as they arent nukes)

a MAJOR complaint about Ash/Excal's ults are the tgt hard caps, but they are ONLY complaints becuz other frames like Mag/Rhino/Nova DO NOT have tgt caps

the tgt caps yes mean you cant destroy 4000 dudes at once, but having 1 frame being able to do that means that what's the point of the other 3 frames? and/or DE needs to throw more and more units at us to even pose a threat, which leave tenno/frames/player that are not equipped to deal with fighting 10k baddies all at once out in the cold cold void of space

obviously tgt hard caps have to prioritize tgts closer in proximity 1st, no rhino stomping and the guy 10 ft away dies, but the one standing next to you doesnt, but im ok with rhino jumping into a crowd and stomping and ONLY killing say the 20-30 dudes immediately next to him (the energy is being absorbed after all), instead of just being able to stomp anywhere and devastate everything within radius with impunity (fyi rhino stomp already does less dmg at further ranges, but it still has no tgt cap)

I don't want ult's to be weaksauce, but I'd like the massive nuke ults to be toned down to give the game a more "4 tennos in a cell working as a unit" feel to it, which atm, most of us realize, it does NOT feel like

aight well, that's my FEEDBACK

in case yer curious, im rank 15, and ive pretty much done everything possible ingame so i didn't just pull any of this out of my &#!

[Edgedemon]

Id be worried if it were always percentile based

 

Her main AoE would be near worthless on anything that isnt a high wave...

 

Wed have to add something so she can keep her spot as the mage nuke

actually percentile base was the core of that "need some strategy thing" because you would need to group enemies and set Chain Reactions to get multikills. even if you didn't set chaisn before hand as enemy hp scales they would eventually reach a point where they would be killed anyway just need a little more work and it would work on all levels.

 

p.d: im a long time defender of eliminating that slow effect.

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

The practical solution for Molecular Prime is to leave it alone and instead spend time making new missions to address various player tastes.  Game wide "balance" is boring.  It destroys variety.

Careful, bro. Some might think you a heretic. ;-)

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

I still haven't seen a convincing argument as to why Nova's MPrime is game-breaking. It just stomps mudholes in low and medium level mobs. Then again - any Ult should be able to do that. You never, EVER balance a game around the lower level enemies. You absolutely have to balance things based on how powerful later enemies can be. Since enemies in Warframe scale upwards forever the best frames tend to be the ones with overblown abilities.

One change I could see happening that wouldn't really be all that aggravating is a range decrease and a change to how the skill spreads. This wouldn't even be a nerf, just a change to how you have to use the skill to force you to be a little more active.

Think like this.

- AoE of the initial Prime decreased. It is now much closer ranged but otherwise works the same.

- These primed enemies will explode on death, harming nearby foes. Just like now.

- Unlike how MPrime works now, if an enemy survives an MPrime blast from a dying ally they will now become Primed.

So MPrime is still lethal and all - but now it starts small and allows you to spread it among incoming mobs.

 

 

It's not game breaking (at least not entirely) It's just irritating as hell. The AoE chain explosions do nothing vs high lvl enemies, and wipe out the entire map on anything below lvl 30, which tends to suck the fun out of making runs for any new players (something that Steve has said he wants to improve), and making the first 20 waves of any defence before T3 defence, survival, Ceres and  Pluto a bore. (I have put my frame in a corner on Xini, went to make a cup of tea and came back 10 waves later at wave 20 and started playing again because there was no point to doing anything until then with a Nova spamming MP)

 

And while Ults should be powerful, MP takes it to a ridiculous lvl, (WoF is a decent example of something very powerful, but requires Ember to get close and combine accelerant given her fragile nature) but doesn't work at higher lvls (which AMD does, but no one ever uses it because MP spam is much easier, another problem)

 

I don't actually have an issue with the 200% damage buff, or the 50% debuff to speed and damage, or the big range, even the duration isn't so bad (not great, but it's not horrid) I don't like the AoE chain explosions causing damage, or at least not that much with a single bullet. It's game breaking at low and medium lvls and doesn't scratch high lvl mobs where it's rather pointless, especially when AMD is so superior as an AoE damage power in it's current form right now, but we never get it being used. (I think that's a shame, the design ie: moving an anti matter ball around and charging it is a nice one and far more engaging)

 

I don't see that MP needs to be nerfed into the ground, but there's far too many benefits with no engagement or effort on the part of the player, the AoE chain explosions being the most obvious thing to nerf, without crippling her high lvl potential by leaving all her buffs and debuffs intact as a damage frame.

[ThePresident777]

Enemies respawn, so, it is not true that nukes leave players with nothing to do.  If there is down time after a nuke, the problem is not the nuke.  The problem is obviously the respawn algorithm not keeping up.   It's an action game.  If the action stops it's because the game has failed to supply the action, not because the players have killed too fast.