List Of 0% Tribute Dark Sectors, Support Their Cause

[Zhoyzu]

Yea.

 

But u know. DE are making them better, so maybe they will be time when it will be good investment.

so my statement still holds true as they havent been changed.

[OniDax]

Oh let's get mad at an alliance that plays the game and beat the other alliances to the punch and grabbed the rails first. It's SO unfair. They should be banned.

 

And nobody knew how the rails worked at launch. They learned that the rails needed to be maintained, they learned it was a rather high cost, and they realised that they needed to tax to maintain the rails. 

 

Also, with the 25% tax, you will be getting WAY more than what you paid in taxes during the conflicts. So think of it as an investment.

 

They were opportunistic, and baited in a lot of people to help them with their 0% tax. Since then, it's been upped, with people like you trying to somehow justify supporting them. There is no justification. With 15% or less tax, I get more than what I'd get if I support Eclipse and play on their sectors. It is not an investment. It's merely helping them keep their rails when there is no reason to support them. The rails do not cost that much to warrant a 25% tax on all of their sectors. It is not that high of a cost. 

[Cinderain]

Reminds me of paying to use a water fountain or a toilet.

[Saenol]

I think I'm going to look into whether taking Eclipse's battle pay is more harmful to them than the repair costs I inflict for fighting against them.

 

If it is, I'll happily take their money, but I'll never use their rails outside of a conflict. Same goes for all taxers. 0% or bust.

 

    You do understand that the only reason Alliances like eclipse has a decent battle pay is because of affore mentioned high credit taxes right?

 

Yes.

 

Also, with the 25% tax, you will be getting WAY more than what you paid in taxes during the conflicts. So think of it as an investment.

 

This is the most idiotic thing I have ever heard. If Eclipse is profiting, the patrons of their rails are not.

 

It's not an investment because you can take their battle pay and then evade their taxes by not using their rails.

 

You are being suckered.

 

 

Reminds me of paying to use a water fountain or a toilet.

 

I'd loosen some pipes in the former case and piss on the floor in the later.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Saenol

[rockthatwoodx]

By what asinine metric?

 

 

I have no idea what drives your reasoning.

 

If Eclipse wasn't taking in more than they were giving out, they wouldn't be doing what they are doing. Someone is losing money, and it's not Eclipse.

 

 

 

The "metric"? Giving huge conflict rewards and having enough people supporting them to wipe out other alliances in ~1hr, which in turn let's me get back to playing dark sectors quicker.

 

What drives my reasoning? I said it already. 25% tax makes me only lose out on 5K credits. Then during a conflict I get ten times that amount for a three minute run. THAT is my reasoning. 

[MegaSnail]

Each of these will fall, I will fight against them for their horrible deeds. 

[LunarWind]

Oh let's get mad at an alliance that plays the game and beat the other alliances to the punch and grabbed the rails first. It's SO unfair. They should be banned.

 

And nobody knew how the rails worked at launch. They learned that the rails needed to be maintained, they learned it was a rather high cost, and they realised that they needed to tax to maintain the rails. 

 

Also, with the 25% tax, you will be getting WAY more than what you paid in taxes during the conflicts. So think of it as an investment.

Addressing the bold portion:

The taxes you take in represent, let's say, 50M credits.

Now, it's battle time! You post up 50M credits in battle pay for 'X' number of missions.

People run your missions, they earn all of the battlepay, Eclipse wins the fight.

Great! You took 50M in taxes, you gave 50M in Battlepay.

 

Wait ... something isn't right here. It takes credits to repair a rail?

So then, if you take 50M in tax, and spend 5M in repairs, how do we get everything we put in back out as battlepay?

 

Now, maybe Eclipse pays all repairs out of pocket. Okay, that's very generous of them, they're essentially spending money for nothing in return.

Wait ... why would they do that? If you are happy to lose resources with no gain (Because you keep none of the taxes, remember?) then why fight to keep rails at all?

Why not let them go to another clan, especially one that promises 0% tax?

 

Because it's lies and propaganda, that's why.

I am a Warlord, I know the costs of solar rail upkeep.

I can estimate the number of people running your rails, and the amount of tax you take in, especially on a popular node, far exceeds the costs of upkeep.

As for battlepay? We can see (through 3rd party websites) exactly how many credits you pay out, over how many missions.

There is very little mystery here, we see the in-flow of money, we see the outflow, and we can see that they are not equal.

 

I say again:

If your Solar Rails have become such a burden that you feel forced to levy such high taxes of over 15%, over 20%, then perhaps it's time for you to lose some of those rails, and let a more ... financially capable alliance hold onto the node, one that can manage to upkeep and repair their rail for 10% tax.

[Gryphticon]

Few, no Spear Confederation in the list :)

[Kartumterek]

Since the greedy milk is getting to folks' heads, try to keep calm and actually help clans that are keeping dark sectors free of charge and eliminating clans with unreasonable tribute.

 

Anyway, here's a list of clans and alliances that offer 0 tribute on their nodes, please support them if they are in conflict and I'll try to keep this updated I guess.

 

Romula, Venus: Clan Ghost Bear

Malva, Venus: WiK

Sechura, Pluto: Shadows of Vengeance

 

Wow I thought there were more. Anyway here's a list of clans that should NEVER be supported due to high tribute rates, greedy milk, and resource tribute:

 

Lag Wave 50: 25% Tribute on BOTH credits AND resources.

Eclipse: 25% Tribute, lied in the past about keeping rates at 0%, owns WAY too many rails

Space Confederation: 20% Credit Tribute, 5% resources

ANGELSBR: 15% Tribute, but used to be 0% so they're infected with the greedy milk disease so it's likely bound to get worse if they don't change soon

Cyberus: 10% Tribute, but used to be 0% so they're infected with the greedy milk disease so it's likely bound to get worse if they don't change soon

TW Alliance: Has a resource tribute, which at any percent besides 0 is unreasonable

 

If anything changes, please post it in this thread and support your fellow tenno!

 

Note to DE: Put in a feature where you can donate to other clans and alliances for keeping solar rails free, as some tenno can easily get more credits than others so they will be able to provide.

 

 

kinda late on Eclipse and really the rest... you put them there they gonna milk you guys for all its worth and its gonna be next to impossible to dig them out now with this weak *** armistice in place... get used to seeing their name all over the map. They got themselves a whole crapton of employees they can exploit now, the Walmart of Warframe

[MegaSnail]

Addressing the bold portion:

The taxes you take in represent, let's say, 50M credits.

Now, it's battle time! You post up 50M credits in battle pay for 'X' number of missions.

People run your missions, they earn all of the battlepay, Eclipse wins the fight.

Great! You took 50M in taxes, you gave 50M in Battlepay.

 

Wait ... something isn't right here. It takes credits to repair a rail?

So then, if you take 50M in tax, and spend 5M in repairs, how do we get everything we put in back out as battlepay?

 

Now, maybe Eclipse pays all repairs out of pocket. Okay, that's very generous of them, they're essentially spending money for nothing in return.

Wait ... why would they do that? If you are happy to lose resources with no gain (Because you keep none of the taxes, remember?) then why fight to keep rails at all?

Why not let them go to another clan, especially one that promises 0% tax?

 

Because it's lies and propaganda, that's why.

I am a Warlord, I know the costs of solar rail upkeep.

I can estimate the number of people running your rails, and the amount of tax you take in, especially on a popular node, far exceeds the costs of upkeep.

As for battlepay? We can see (through 3rd party websites) exactly how many credits you pay out, over how many missions.

There is very little mystery here, we see the in-flow of money, we see the outflow, and we can see that they are not equal.

 

I say again:

If your Solar Rails have become such a burden that you feel forced to levy such high taxes of over 15%, over 20%, then perhaps it's time for you to lose some of those rails, and let a more ... financially capable alliance hold onto the node, one that can manage to upkeep and repair their rail for 10% tax.

You do know that Eclipse's members give most of the credits, and a lot of them even gives credits directly from their own clan (the chest area thingy ma-bob) 

[Saenol]

The "metric"? Giving huge conflict rewards and having enough people supporting them to wipe out other alliances in ~1hr, which in turn let's me get back to playing dark sectors quicker.

 

What drives my reasoning? I said it already. 25% tax makes me only lose out on 5K credits. Then during a conflict I get ten times that amount for a three minute run. THAT is my reasoning. 

 

There are uncontested Dark Sectors in almost continual operation. Why on Earth would you pay Eclipse's 25% tax when you do not have to?

 

I'm not telling you not to take their money, but I find it quite hypocritical that one who has based their argument on pure profit would even consider handing any portion those profits back via taxes, when it's clearly not necessary.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Saenol

[OniDax]

The "metric"? Giving huge conflict rewards and having enough people supporting them to wipe out other alliances in ~1hr, which in turn let's me get back to playing dark sectors quicker.

 

What drives my reasoning? I said it already. 25% tax makes me only lose out on 5K credits. Then during a conflict I get ten times that amount for a three minute run. THAT is my reasoning. 

 

Because they consistently offer 50k right? Wrong. Not to mention, dark sector conflicts do not require 10k, 20k, 30k rewards. They only require that you set your pay higher than your opponent. And there is no one else on the map that can set a sustained battle pay over 10k. The high battle pay, again, is nothing more than a gimmick to get players to help them keep their rail so that their members and supporters can come on the forums waving their e-peens. You can gain a lot more credits not playing dark sector conflicts at all. Dark Sector conflicts are NOT about the credits. They are about seizing and holding sectors, period. The purpose of the conflicts is that. Nothing more. You people acting like the whole point is to give others battle pay are making a strawman argument. There is no benefit to the community that is gained from holding 8 rails, upping tax on all of them, even with the 20k credits from battle pay that you can get more of by grinding ordinary survival missions. You're trying to make it about the battle pay as if the point of the sectors is for doing some good for the community. Again, it is not. Holding dark sectors is about the alliances and their reaping resources from the sectors, NOT about what XP or credits non-alliance members can get from it. That was the intention of the game mode. And that is the primary benefit.

[rockthatwoodx]

They were opportunistic, and baited in a lot of people to help them with their 0% tax. Since then, it's been upped, with people like you trying to somehow justify supporting them. There is no justification. With 15% or less tax, I get more than what I'd get if I support Eclipse and play on their sectors. It is not an investment. It's merely helping them keep their rails when there is no reason to support them. The rails do not cost that much to warrant a 25% tax on all of their sectors. It is not that high of a cost. 

 

...

 

DUH

 

 

That's why they give you FIFTY THOUSAND credits for supporting them. They didn't "bait" people. They thought 0% tax would be plausible, but it's not when other alliances CHALLENGED THEIR FREE RAILS. 

 

So Eclipse is greedy? When they offered 0% tax? And were driven to incur a tax to support their rails when alliances attacked? Don't blame them, blame the attackers. We had a 0% tax, and it is other alliance/clan's faults that they started taxing. 

 

25% is VERY reasonable, especially since they give you such huge conflict rewards. When you use their rails you are STILL getting credits you didn't have in the first place. Upset that you aren't getting as much as possible? Now who sounds greedy.

[Alazais]

Wtf is "greedy milk disease"? lmao it sounds so $&*&*#(%& I can't take the OP seriously at all.

 

If people are unhappy with an alliance owning the rails, they should attack and win. Nothing in the game is preventing them from doing that, if you think Eclipse has too much money to ever lose you have to ask yourself are they doing something very right? or wrong? 

 

From here it looks like they're doing it right, the system was never intended for everybody to be a carebear with 0% tax and no attacks on the rails, c'mon grow up and man up. If you want something to change, then make plans to change it, don't just make a whine post here and expect people to go "oh gosh, this can't be happening, better mount up on my moral high horse and ride into battle!"

 

If an Alliance gives out no battlepay and takes large taxes it will lose it's rail (working as intended) and if an Alliance offers good battlepay with high taxes, it won't lose it's rail (working as intended.)

[OniDax]

You do know that Eclipse's members give most of the credits, and a lot of them even gives credits directly from their own clan (the chest area thingy ma-bob) 

 

Yes, and that's where they get the bulk of their credit income from, the higher tax on members. 75%. So, if they've got 75% tax on members, explain to me WHY there is the necessity for a 25% tax on non-alliance members? I'm not mad about losing 25% of credits because I don't play their node. But rationally explain to me what justifies a 25% tax, and with that my support?

 

 

...

 

DUH

 

 

That's why they give you FIFTY THOUSAND credits for supporting them. They didn't "bait" people. They thought 0% tax would be plausible, but it's not when other alliances CHALLENGED THEIR FREE RAILS. 

 

So Eclipse is greedy? When they offered 0% tax? And were driven to incur a tax to support their rails when alliances attacked? Don't blame them, blame the attackers. We had a 0% tax, and it is other alliance/clan's faults that they started taxing. 

 

25% is VERY reasonable, especially since they give you such huge conflict rewards. When you use their rails you are STILL getting credits you didn't have in the first place. Upset that you aren't getting as much as possible? Now who sounds greedy.

 

 

And, again, rockthatwoodx, they do NOT give out a consistent 50k credit battle pay.

 

If you, and any others, want to support Eclipse for their battle pay, that's your choice, but don't DARE try to make people who don't support them out to be greedy, entitled, or jealous players who are somehow morally bankrupt for not supporting "the best alliance" (and yes, this has been the sentiment of Eclipse supporters on this forum).

Edited April 27, 2014 by AntoineFlemming

[Saenol]

From here it looks like they're doing it right

 

Rails have been running less than a week, and when people finally realize how to game the system, profits from rails will collapse and battle pay along with it.

[Rydian]

If Eclipse is profiting, the patrons of their rails are not.

... what?

 

You do realize that taxes can be set to various values and none of them are 100% right?

 

Which means that statement is false.  Eclipse takes a portion of it, not the entire thing, so the people running the rails still profit because they still make more credits than the normal missions on that planet.

 

Careful about how you exaggerate!

 

[size=1]EDIT: Changed the wording to note that we're not seeing 100% so my meaning is more clear.[/size]

Edited April 27, 2014 by Rydian

[rockthatwoodx]

Because they consistently offer 50k right? Wrong. Not to mention, dark sector conflicts do not require 10k, 20k, 30k rewards. They only require that you set your pay higher than your opponent. And there is no one else on the map that can set a sustained battle pay over 10k. The high battle pay, again, is nothing more than a gimmick to get players to help them keep their rail so that their members and supporters can come on the forums waving their e-peens. You can gain a lot more credits not playing dark sector conflicts at all. Dark Sector conflicts are NOT about the credits. They are about seizing and holding sectors, period. The purpose of the conflicts is that. Nothing more. You people acting like the whole point is to give others battle pay are making a strawman argument. There is no benefit to the community that is gained from holding 8 rails, upping tax on all of them, even with the 20k credits from battle pay that you can get more of by grinding ordinary survival missions. You're trying to make it about the battle pay as if the point of the sectors is for doing some good for the community. Again, it is not. Holding dark sectors is about the alliances and their reaping resources from the sectors, NOT about what XP or credits non-alliance members can get from it. That was the intention of the game mode. And that is the primary benefit.

 

Reaping resources? With a 0% resource tax? Interesting logic.

 

And you're right, they don't require such high rewards. But they give them. Which makes them awesome. 

[Alazais]

Rails have been running less than a week, and when people finally realize how to game the system, profits from rails will collapse and battle pay along with it.

How does one game the system exactly?

[MegaSnail]

Because they consistently offer 50k right? Wrong. Not to mention, dark sector conflicts do not require 10k, 20k, 30k rewards. They only require that you set your pay higher than your opponent. And there is no one else on the map that can set a sustained battle pay over 10k. The high battle pay, again, is nothing more than a gimmick to get players to help them keep their rail so that their members and supporters can come on the forums waving their e-peens. You can gain a lot more credits not playing dark sector conflicts at all. Dark Sector conflicts are NOT about the credits. They are about seizing and holding sectors, period. The purpose of the conflicts is that. Nothing more. You people acting like the whole point is to give others battle pay are making a strawman argument. There is no benefit to the community that is gained from holding 8 rails, upping tax on all of them, even with the 20k credits from battle pay that you can get more of by grinding ordinary survival missions. You're trying to make it about the battle pay as if the point of the sectors is for doing some good for the community. Again, it is not. Holding dark sectors is about the alliances and their reaping resources from the sectors, NOT about what XP or credits non-alliance members can get from it. That was the intention of the game mode. And that is the primary benefit.

Alright I'm tired of this. Let me tell you something right here, right now.

 

Why, in the name of ALL THAT IS TENNO, would Eclipse want to have a crap ton of credits? The reason why they WANT credits is to give it away, to keep people on their side. They just want to have fun, they are not the Illuminati, they aren't going to take away everything you love and desire, and they wont do anything to you. At all. 25% tax is nothing, at least you PROFIT from doing the survival/defense. In the long term Eclipse will be beneficial, whether you believe it or not it does not matter to me. You must open your eyes and see that Eclipse isn't bad, CM (part of Eclipse) has always been a competitive Clan who always seek to be the best at every turn. Want to know how they do this? Because this Clan is run by people with functioning brains. They think ahead, they just want to have FUN. Before this goes into PoliticFrame I want to say that you should rethink everything you have ever done in your life and think about Eclipse. 

[SolidAcid]

I think it's strange how 100+ alliances are clicking to deploy solar rail like there is no tomorrow and from that eclipse won MANY of those clickfests...

 

Is someone inside the serverroom of DE so he has close to none ping? or some other sorcery?

[rockthatwoodx]

Addressing the bold portion:

The taxes you take in represent, let's say, 50M credits.

Now, it's battle time! You post up 50M credits in battle pay for 'X' number of missions.

People run your missions, they earn all of the battlepay, Eclipse wins the fight.

Great! You took 50M in taxes, you gave 50M in Battlepay.

 

Wait ... something isn't right here. It takes credits to repair a rail?

So then, if you take 50M in tax, and spend 5M in repairs, how do we get everything we put in back out as battlepay?

 

Now, maybe Eclipse pays all repairs out of pocket. Okay, that's very generous of them, they're essentially spending money for nothing in return.

Wait ... why would they do that? If you are happy to lose resources with no gain (Because you keep none of the taxes, remember?) then why fight to keep rails at all?

Why not let them go to another clan, especially one that promises 0% tax?

 

Because it's lies and propaganda, that's why.

I am a Warlord, I know the costs of solar rail upkeep.

I can estimate the number of people running your rails, and the amount of tax you take in, especially on a popular node, far exceeds the costs of upkeep.

As for battlepay? We can see (through 3rd party websites) exactly how many credits you pay out, over how many missions.

There is very little mystery here, we see the in-flow of money, we see the outflow, and we can see that they are not equal.

 

I say again:

If your Solar Rails have become such a burden that you feel forced to levy such high taxes of over 15%, over 20%, then perhaps it's time for you to lose some of those rails, and let a more ... financially capable alliance hold onto the node, one that can manage to upkeep and repair their rail for 10% tax.

 

How does a high tax make them financially incapable? When they give out large conflict rewards? 

[OniDax]

Alright I'm tired of this. Let me tell you something right here, right now.

 

Why, in the name of ALL THAT IS TENNO, would Eclipse want to have a crap ton of credits? The reason why they WANT credits is to give it away, to keep people on their side. They just want to have fun, they are not the Illuminati, they aren't going to take away everything you love and desire, and they wont do anything to you. At all. 25% tax is nothing, at least you PROFIT from doing the survival/defense. In the long term Eclipse will be beneficial, whether you believe it or not it does not matter to me. You must open your eyes and see that Eclipse isn't bad, CM (part of Eclipse) has always been a competitive Clan who always seek to be the best at every turn. Want to know how they do this? Because this Clan is run by people with functioning brains. They think ahead, they just want to have FUN. Before this goes into PoliticFrame I want to say that you should rethink everything you have ever done in your life and think about Eclipse. 

 

Yeah, well I'm tired of all the criticism of anyone who doesn't support Eclipse.

[Saenol]

 

But rationally explain to me what justifies a 25% tax, and with that my support?

 

You know that warm and fuzzy feelgood feeling you get when the government takes 30% off the top?

 

Me either.

 

You do realize that taxes can be set to values between 0% and 100%, right?

 

Yes.

 

Which means that statement is false.  Eclipse takes a portion of it, not the entire thing, so the people running the rails still profit because they still make more credits than the normal missions on that planet.

 

Careful about how you exaggerate!

 

My statement is not false and I am neither exaggerating, equivocating, nor indulging in hyperbole.

 

Any tax rate is higher than 0%. If you play on an Eclipse sector when you could be playing on one of equivalent or higher rank/pay that has lower taxes (which is most of the time), you are paying more than you have to.

 

 

How does one game the system exactly?

 

Fighting for the highest paying rails during conflicts, then only playing on 0% tax rails outside of conflicts.

 

You get all of the reward, and don't need to return any of it.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Saenol

[birdei]

Yes, and that's where they get the bulk of their credit income from, the higher tax on members. 75%. So, if they've got 75% tax on members, explain to me WHY there is the necessity for a 25% tax on non-alliance members? I'm not mad about losing 25% of credits because I don't play their node. But rationally explain to me what justifies a 25% tax, and with that my support?

 

 

battle reserves in case you need it, like a rainy day fund. Its how 50k battle pay is possible. when we feel the conflict is starting to favor the opponent, out comes the huge battle pay. If you don't have a backup plan, (even in life) it will only make things a lot tougher.