The Nova Problem: Molecular Prime Dilema, A Simple And Easy Fix.

[achromos]

Disclaimer: I do not play Nova mainly, though she is fun imo but her getting nerfed heavily is not going to directly affect my enjoyment of the game.

 

I have been there, in a random star system area to either clear a node or grind and I've been in a group with a Nova before.  I have been annoyed by how fast enemy's die around her and all challenge, and mostly fun getting sapped from the game.  I would be all for nerfing MP to the ground as some would, however taking her into the void and getting experience with her I have to say that she is balanced... for high level content.

 

The main issue as I started off in the first paragraph is novas in the lower level content, however how do we make such a frail frame not feel useless without making the group feel useless too?

 

My suggestion is to scale the ability with the level of the enemy instead of a strait 200% damage multiplier, maybe a level based system is in order, a example is below.

 

Level 1-20 Enemies: 100% Damage Multiplier

Level 21-40 Enemies: 150% Damage Multiplier

Level 41+ Enemies: 200% Damage Multiplier

Edit: didn't account for the explosion doing damage too, derp.

Level 1-20 Enemies:  75 / 100 / 150 / 250  Blast damage on death (not including power strength mod changes)

Level 21-40 Enemies: 100 / 150 / 250 / 400 Blast damage on death (not including power strength mod changes)

Level 41+ Enemies: 150 / 250 / 400 / 800 Blast damage on death (not including power strength mod changes)

What this means is that nova will be less game breaking to everyone around her, without being neutered as a whole and more of a asset without taking all the fun immediately,  now those percentages are a mockup, though I do believe that the Level 41+ damage multiplier should remain at 200% or as close to it as possible.

Edit2: Another great idea would be to disable the ability to cast M.Prime again as long as someone is primed.

 

My concern is in truth not biased to or against her, however I doubt many people will like this idea and irrationally want her to be nerfed to the floor because of a few sour experiences and bad fruit playing as her.  However her first ability is rather useless in most situations and her two is very unwieldy though it 'can' be used under certain circumstances, some that rely on teamwork to some extent.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Sibarian

[Monolake]

Would change nothing, please research how an ability works.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Monolake

[achromos]

Would change nothing, please research how an ability works.

 

Can you explain it to me how It would change 'nothing' when the main complaint about a ability is that things die so fast?

 

Is the main complaint the fact that things die so quickly or not?

 

Would it fix the ability if it was just toned down on earlier levels?

 

Wouldn't it be easier to just scale the ability to the level of the enemies or not?

Edited April 28, 2014 by Sibarian

[KibaWesker]

Personally i think the whole "body explodes on death then chain reaction an entire room" is the problem. Take away the explosions and id be fine! The enemies get the multiplier, everyone still needs to kill each enemy individually and they are de-buffed massively! Only now every single kill wont be for nova! Every kill wont kill an entire room JUST for nova.

[Monolake]

Can you explain it to me how It would change 'nothing' when the main complaint about a ability is that things die so fast?

 

Is the main complaint the fact that things die so quickly or not?

 

Would it fix the ability if it was just toned down on earlier levels?

 

Wouldn't it be easier to just scale the ability to the level of the enemies or not?

Chain explosion effect doesn't need any multipliers to clear the rooms of low-mid level enemies.

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Nova_(Warframe)

Edited April 28, 2014 by Monolake

[Aver]

How about explain it to me how It would change 'nothing' when the main complaint about a ability is that things die so fast?

 

Is the ability a static 200% damage multiplier right now or not?

 

Is the main complaint the fact that things die so quickly or not?

 

Would it fix the ability if it was just toned down on earlier levels?

 

Wouldn't it be easier to just scale the ability to the level of the enemies or not?

i guess thats a valid complaint but its pretty minor, i think the real problem isnt that it has 200% static damage multiplier, its that it has that, a mega slow, and it causes everyone to explode usually causing a chain of explosions. im going to be honest here, ember is one of my favorite frames and all four of her skills combined arent as usefull as m prime is. and then nova has 3 other abilities... so yea she needs a nerf but this wont really be addressing it just putting a tiny barely noticed bandage on the problem.

[achromos]

i guess thats a valid complaint but its pretty minor, i think the real problem isnt that it has 200% static damage multiplier, its that it has that, a mega slow, and it causes everyone to explode usually causing a chain of explosions. im going to be honest here, ember is one of my favorite frames and all four of her skills combined arent as usefull as m prime is. and then nova has 3 other abilities... so yea she needs a nerf but this wont really be addressing it just putting a tiny barely noticed bandage on the problem.

 

 

Chain explosion effect doesn't need any multipliers to clear the rooms of low-mid level enemies.

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Nova_(Warframe)

 

 

 

Hmm, well what about scaling the max damage as well?  Just putting a soft cap on M.Prime along with the damage multiplier cap in each different 'tier' that I've listed?

 

I do agree with the disparity between nova and ember but they both have relatively different roles and mindsets imo.  Nova is [at least for now] meant to be the room clearer/controller and ember is good for spot cc and world on fire... even though those ability's do need to be toned up considerably imo.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Sibarian

[Nuko_Miko]

I call for enemy level*7 % modifier :3

 

Edit: NVM this.

Edited April 28, 2014 by MrFireShot

[Aver]

Hmm, well what about scaling the max damage as well?  Just putting a soft cap on M.Prime along with the damage multiplier cap in each different 'tier' that I've listed?

 

I do agree with the disparity between nova and ember but they both have relatively different roles and mindsets imo.

caps never feel good, and it wont stop people from complaining since the cap will either be too low and m prime stops doing damage, or its too high and low level areas are still getting mprimed to death. and while i do agree that ember and nova go for two different roles, embers role is damage, setting everything on fire and watch it die painfully, so when nova comes in with one ability that does more than ember can with all 4, somethings up

[V0LK]

Cooldown. That's it. Still good, but no spam.

[achromos]

caps never feel good, and it wont stop people from complaining since the cap will either be too low and m prime stops doing damage, or its too high and low level areas are still getting mprimed to death. and while i do agree that ember and nova go for two different roles, embers role is damage, setting everything on fire and watch it die painfully, so when nova comes in with one ability that does more than ember can with all 4, somethings up

 

Honestly Ember needs to be buffed a bit, and nova does need to be nerfed a bit too.  However caps will stop people complaining for the wrong reason, aka nova taking all the fun out of the game with just one button.  Maybe the blast damage update in my original post would be fine?  Keep in mind that this is just a 'cap' without any outside mod interference for simplicity.  In lower levels enemies might not just die from one explosion and the group can get in a few shots too instead of having to have a quickdraw contest.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Sibarian

[Aver]

Cooldown. That's it. Still good, but no spam.

i actually like this suggestion, make it like the current chaos, as long as someone is primed nova cant prime... would lower its power level a lot.

edit:

realized after posting that this would only help @ high lvl content when people stop caring and low levels would still have current problems, but i think this is more of the right direction rather than caps, i just never feel right with caps in warframe, specially since damage abilities have the bad habit of not scaling so putting a cap litterally means after x level this ability stops being useful 

Edited April 28, 2014 by Aver

[achromos]

i actually like this suggestion, make it like the current chaos, as long as someone is primed nova cant prime... would lower its power level a lot

 

 

This makes a lot of sense too.

[BritishBob]

You could just change the ability to add a de-buff and then do DoTs. Bit like Saryn. Min/Maxed she can do 4k damage and clear a room, but it's not the instant FPS grinding party you get with Nova.

 

Change from and explosion to DoTs and it will still be useful, with the utility, and Min/Maxed would still do enough damage to be useful in the higher levels.

[achromos]

You could just change the ability to add a de-buff and then do DoTs. Bit like Saryn. Min/Maxed she can do 4k damage and clear a room, but it's not the instant FPS grinding party you get with Nova.

 

Change from and explosion to DoTs and it will still be useful, with the utility, and Min/Maxed would still do enough damage to be useful in the higher levels.

 

I'm all for anything as long as Nova does not become the next Nerfed into obscurity and this is a unique idea too.

[achromos]

i actually like this suggestion, make it like the current chaos, as long as someone is primed nova cant prime... would lower its power level a lot.

edit:

realized after posting that this would only help @ high lvl content when people stop caring and low levels would still have current problems, but i think this is more of the right direction rather than caps, i just never feel right with caps in warframe, specially since damage abilities have the bad habit of not scaling so putting a cap litterally means after x level this ability stops being useful 

 

Well, as long as the caps are dynamic like I have on there so that they are within a constrained 'tier' so that a ability stays as relatively useful as it is meant to be without starting out as a complete room nuke that is too easy to spam.

[(PSN)Panzer-Strike]

Why stop at Nova? Let's take away Frosts snow globe it's still to defensive. Then let's get rid of Rhino stomp that's way to much crowd control.

Whoa who's forgot about Nyx chaos not her ultimate skill makes that's way to powerful! Don't forget about Nekros spamming desecrate making survival to easy. Then there's tapping everything into a net, sucking every enemy into a vortex then throwing moves everywhere.

Look everyone has there strong points nerf one why stop there nerf them all.

[KibaWesker]

Why stop at Nova? Let's take away Frosts snow globe it's still to defensive. Then let's get rid of Rhino stomp that's way to much crowd control.

Whoa who's forgot about Nyx chaos not her ultimate skill makes that's way to powerful! Don't forget about Nekros spamming desecrate making survival to easy. Then there's tapping everything into a net, sucking every enemy into a vortex then throwing moves everywhere.

Look everyone has there strong points nerf one why stop there nerf them all.

Wow someones likes being a troll lol

 

1)Frost snow globe still has a TIMER so not its not really that defensive

2)Nyx's chaos doesnt stop them from SHOOTING you. ive had many occasions were a heavy gunner would ignore the other enemies and STILL shoot me so it still has a flaw.

3)So whats novas flaw? OH haha nothing! shes PERFECT! she slows ALL enemies by 50% she can debuff them by 200% and makes them EXPLODE! which causes chain reactions to NUKE an entire playing field and to top it ALL off she gets those kills. Kills dont matter much but it takes away the fun when nova can single handedly do an entire defense mission by herself with her team sitting down drinking coffee, its a problem. Oh lets also not forget her animatter drop which is arguably even STRONGER then her ult!

4) Desecrate only turns survival into a new game mode...lets call it Last Stand! were you just need to survive as long as you can with no pod to protect no oxygen to worry about, something most tenno support! Desecrate does NOTHING to enemies which is what this is suppose to be about. 

Edited April 28, 2014 by KibaWesker

[Aver]

Why stop at Nova? Let's take away Frosts snow globe it's still to defensive. Then let's get rid of Rhino stomp that's way to much crowd control.

Whoa who's forgot about Nyx chaos not her ultimate skill makes that's way to powerful! Don't forget about Nekros spamming desecrate making survival to easy. Then there's tapping everything into a net, sucking every enemy into a vortex then throwing moves everywhere.

Look everyone has there strong points nerf one why stop there nerf them all.

every frame should have a power budget, where if one skill is too strong the other skills are weakened. the problem is that some frames have a much higher budget than other frames, and that would have been fine IF DE wanted tiered frames but they don't. they want every frame to be decent at everything while some excel in specifics and each being unique. nova manages to have one of the highest power budgets in the game and it overshadows a lot of frames, they could buff the S#&$ out of ember but why bother as long as you can just press 4 as a nova and do the exact same thing but better. im past the stage where i go "wtf don't Nerf" honestly as nice as that sounds it doesn't make for a good game and i want warframe to be a good game.

[KibaWesker]

every frame should have a power budget, where if one skill is too strong the other skills are weakened. the problem is that some frames have a much higher budget than other frames, and that would have been fine IF DE wanted tiered frames but they don't. they want every frame to be decent at everything while some excel in specifics and each being unique. nova manages to have one of the highest power budgets in the game and it overshadows a lot of frames, they could buff the S#&$ out of ember but why bother as long as you can just press 4 as a nova and do the exact same thing but better. im past the stage where i go "wtf don't Nerf" honestly as nice as that sounds it doesn't make for a good game and i want warframe to be a good game.

Its even worse when novas 4 isnt her BEST skill its just the cheapest! Anitmatter drop requires a little more skill but can be 100 times more devastating!

[achromos]

Its even worse when novas 4 isnt her BEST skill its just the cheapest! Anitmatter drop requires a little more skill but can be 100 times more devastating!

 

Though it seems to be balanced by that need for 'skill' though, which is why you rarely see people using it because its too easy to press 4.  I wouldn't mind if again all the measures I stated above were implemented because it would seem fair and once enemies get to the level 40+ range they stop dying from the blast damage alone... though it does help a little, my observations on M.Prime were with a little power strength buffing the damage too, so it might be a bit weaker without corrupted mods.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Sibarian

[Norry.]

That doesn't seem much of a complaint. I'm playing online co-op and someone helps us beat the mission faster and get to higher level waves than we could have without them, but they have more kills at the end then me. QQ.

Nova is fine. So what if someone playing one gets more kills. Do you beat the mission or not?

 

Don't want a Nova in your group, go private.

 

For the record, I don't play a Nova..

[Aver]

That doesn't seem much of a complaint. I'm playing online co-op and someone helps us beat the mission faster and get to higher level waves than we could have without them, but they have more kills at the end then me. QQ.

Nova is fine. So what if someone playing one gets more kills. Do you beat the mission or not?

 

Don't want a Nova in your group, go private.

 

For the record, I don't play a Nova..

and thats a very valid view, in fact its how i look at a nova but the thought "why bother doing anything when nova can just m prime" has been thought by me and while as a player thats kind of alright, i dont think DE wants us to have a god tier that overshadows the other frames.

[KibaWesker]

That doesn't seem much of a complaint. I'm playing online co-op and someone helps us beat the mission faster and get to higher level waves than we could have without them, but they have more kills at the end then me. QQ.

Nova is fine. So what if someone playing one gets more kills. Do you beat the mission or not?

 

Don't want a Nova in your group, go private.

 

For the record, I don't play a Nova..

This isn't about who gets the most kills. its about me trying to have fun on a MULTIPLAYER GAME with a class that needs to press ONE button to win! The fact that most people try to divert the argument into "who cares how many kills she gets" are the people who probably play as her. Its NOT about kills its about how EASY it is to kill everything with her. DE has expressed that survival and defense aren't suppose to go to wave 200 the fact that we can is a problem! which is also why they are nerfing Nova and Trinity. There are decent players that don't spam her move but there are also those that keep pressing 4! what makes it even worse is that this lvl 4 skill is unaffected by most negative effects of corrupted mods. you can have it cost 25 energy, and it doesn't need to reach an entire field because you can spam it! You don't need to worry about power strength either because it effects the explosion which gets 200% extra damage anyway. It also has a 60 second duration which also doesn't matter because it can be spammed AND everything usually dies within the first 3 seconds of casting it! so when building nova you don't need to even put any mods on for M. Prime because enemies will still become nuked anyway.

[achromos]

This isn't about who gets the most kills. its about me trying to have fun on a MULTIPLAYER GAME with a class that needs to press ONE button to win! The fact that most people try to divert the argument into "who cares how many kills she gets" are the people who probably play as her. Its NOT about kills its about how EASY it is to kill everything with her. DE has expressed that survival and defense aren't suppose to go to wave 200 the fact that we can is a problem! which is also why they are nerfing Nova and Trinity. There are decent players that don't spam her move but there are also those that keep pressing 4! what makes it even worse is that this lvl 4 skill is unaffected by most negative effects of corrupted mods. you can have it cost 25 energy, and it doesn't need to reach an entire field because you can spam it! You don't need to worry about power strength either because it effects the explosion which gets 200% extra damage anyway. It also has a 60 second duration which also doesn't matter because it can be spammed AND everything usually dies within the first 3 seconds of casting it! so when building nova you don't need to even put any mods on for M. Prime because enemies will still become nuked anyway.

 

Maybe just reduce the effectiveness greatly on its own and make it rely on mods more?