Battle Pay Changes Need A Cooldown Timer To Prevent Accidental (Or Intentional) Fraud

[Yurilica]

I've been mentioning this in other threads as a major issue with the Dark Sector system.

 

Battle pay during Conflicts can be changed at any time, which is a major issue.

 

Example, in chronological order:

 

1.) Clan offers a battle pay of 50k for over 100 missions:

http://i.imgur.com/atNki3J.jpg

 

2.) Run the mission within 2 minutes, get 0 credit rewards:

http://i.imgur.com/scslXNW.jpg

 

3.) Check the conflict screen and see this:

http://i.imgur.com/6ED1aos.jpg

 

 

TL;DR

 

Clan puts up 50000 battle pay for 100 missions, gets a high influx of players doing missions for them and pulls the battle pay down to zero before most of those people can even finish the mission. Check screenshots for details. All happened within 2 minutes.

 

Battle pay changes should have at least a 20 minute timer. That way it gives people who started mission plenty of time not to get scammed out of pay for their work, while still allowing enough flexibility for attackers and defenders to change battle pay during conflicts.

Edited April 30, 2014 by Letter13

[Babellon]

NONE of what you just said is accurate. Once the battle pay has been set it must run out in order to be set  again. it cannot be withdrawn haflway through. If a clan/alliance sets a battle pay at 100c for 100 missions, it cannot be changed until 100 missions are run, you, running that 101st missions might not get the batttle pay, because the clan/alliance has not had a chance to get it reset yet. This is not evidence of a scam. 

 

They  have hashed this out for over 2 weeks now. People  keep spreading this misinformation as though it is fact even though we have the facts right in front of us. Yes DE needs to re-evaluate the system, so that it can be  more streamline, How ever battle pay running out in the middle of a mission for some does not show duplicity on the part of the clan, but merely a matter of timing. 

[Corvid]

Or maybe you should actually do some research as to how they generate battle pay?

[Retrikaethan]

NONE of what you just said is accurate. Once the battle pay has been set it must run out in order to be set  again. it cannot be withdrawn haflway through. If a clan/alliance sets a battle pay at 100c for 100 missions, it cannot be changed until 100 missions are run, you, running that 101st missions might not get the batttle pay, because the clan/alliance has not had a chance to get it reset yet. This is not evidence of a scam. 

 

They  have hashed this out for over 2 weeks now. People  keep spreading this misinformation as though it is fact even though we have the facts right in front of us. Yes DE needs to re-evaluate the system, so that it can be  more streamline, How ever battle pay running out in the middle of a mission for some does not show duplicity on the part of the clan, but merely a matter of timing. 

that's still abusable as hell. just put in 50k every 2-3 minutes, dish out 50k, get 20 runs. thats pretty freaking cheap runs right there. i ran these missions they offered, it was going from 0 to 70k repeatedly. like the money was put out for a single mission.

[LazyTheGypsy]

What everyone else above said.

 

X battlepay is set up for XXX amount of next people to complete the mission.

 

Further explained:

 

Alliance sets up a 25k battlepay for the next 1500 runs.

 

The next 1500 tenno to finish the mission, get 25k. If they finish the mission AFTER the 1500 runs are up, the alliance has to setup a new battlepay. If you finish the mission during the grey period of the new battlepay being setup, you will get 0 credits, as that is the award during the grey period.

 

 

Research before you slander.

 

EDIT-

 

that's still abusable as hell. just put in 50k every 2-3 minutes, dish out 50k, get 20 runs. thats pretty freaking cheap runs right there. i ran these missions they offered, it was going from 0 to 70k repeatedly. like the money was put out for a single mission.

If you were checking deathsnacks while the conflicts were going, they were offering 500-1000 runs for their sets of tickets.

 

It's a fantastic tool.

http://deathsnacks.com/wf/

Edited April 30, 2014 by LazyTheGypsy

[LurkenLurker]

/thread people nothing to see here just another misinformed individual who doesn't understand the battle pay system  

[Corvid]

that's still abusable as hell. just put in 50k every 2-3 minutes, dish out 50k, get 20 runs. thats pretty freaking cheap runs right there. i ran these missions they offered, it was going from 0 to 70k repeatedly. like the money was put out for a single mission.

 

Have you considered the fact that there might be about twenty player groups that are faster than you?

[Babellon]

that's still abusable as hell. just put in 50k every 2-3 minutes, dish out 50k, get 20 runs. thats pretty freaking cheap runs right there. i ran these missions they offered, it was going from 0 to 70k repeatedly. like the money was put out for a single mission.

well, think of this, the battle pay is not just number of runs, its per person. so, if you put 1000c for 100 runs, thats 1000c  for 100 people, if 100 people all run 1 mission at the same time, battle pay has been burned up. Yes, it is a big loophole. When you have hundreds or even thousands of people running a mission at the same time, that battle pay gets burned up very quickly. 

This is why DE needs to reevaluate the system.

[LurkenLurker]

that's still abusable as hell. just put in 50k every 2-3 minutes, dish out 50k, get 20 runs. thats pretty freaking cheap runs right there. i ran these missions they offered, it was going from 0 to 70k repeatedly. like the money was put out for a single mission.

you don't set the battle pay for minutes you set it for runs and per tenno in a group and yes you can set it for just 20 runs but there still shelling out 20k for the runs that got done its called being smart and micromanaging the battle pay its you guys who give an alliance all the power if you don't want them suckering you with battle pay don't fight for them

[Retrikaethan]

Have you considered the fact that there might be about twenty player groups that are faster than you?

have you considered the alliance (and their competitor at the time) put out large payouts on small amounts of runs so as to incite many people to rush for that money to garner some kind of edge?

[Babellon]

Some people will find a conspiracy in a sunrise. I swear.

 

1000c for 1000 Players. If 1000 people run 1 mission, battle pay is gone, if that 1001st person is in the middle of that mission he/she will not get paid on that mission. its not a conspiracy. its timing. 

 

we should stop refering  to it as paying for 1000 runs, that is inaccurate, it is per player.

Edited April 30, 2014 by -LTO-Malachi

[LazyTheGypsy]

have you considered the alliance (and their competitor at the time) put out large payouts on small amounts of runs so as to incite many people to rush for that money to garner some kind of edge?

I'd say that's more of the community's fault, seeing as they're the ones who speed run.

That said, it's also the systems fault in not being able to increase the battlepay or amount of tickets until they've all been used up.

[Retrikaethan]

you don't set the battle pay for minutes you set it for runs and yes you can set it for just 20 runs but there still shelling out 20k for the runs that got done its called being smart and micromanaging the battle pay its you guys who give an alliance all the power if you don't want them suckering you with battle pay don't fight for them

and thats the problem, they set it for 75k for however many sub10 runs and get people to come en masse. i only ran the once for them, and then the once for their competitor at the time. there's no point running for someone who abuses something like that. there's a word for that type of business practice and its not called micromanaging. (i don't know it fuckoff i hate english)

[LazyTheGypsy]

and thats the problem, they set it for 75k for however many sub10 runs and get people to come en masse. i only ran the once for them, and then the once for their competitor at the time. there's no point running for someone who abuses something like that. there's a word for that type of business practice and its not called micromanaging. (i don't know it fuckoff i hate english)

 

I was checking deathsnacks constantly and I never saw under 500 tickets at a time be put out.

[LurkenLurker]

have you considered the alliance (and their competitor at the time) put out large payouts on small amounts of runs so as to incite many people to rush for that money to garner some kind of edge?

Have you considered reading what every one has posted about the battle pay its per run and per tenno in a group let say an alliance set the pay for 20k for 20 runs and a group of 4 tenno do the mission it will use up 4 runs meaning meaning a 4 man groups only has to run it 4 or 5 times to suck up all that battle pay

[Retrikaethan]

I'd say that's more of the community's fault, seeing as they're the ones who speed run.

That said, it's also the systems fault in not being able to increase the battlepay or amount of tickets until they've all been used up.

i'm amused at how many of you are coming to the aid of this alliance. makes me wonder how many belong to them.

also, how is it the communities fault the clans offer 75k for 10 runs or less? cuz that S#&$ was coming and going faster than cookies to a rich fat kid.

[LobsterFiend]

and thats the problem, they set it for 75k for however many sub10 runs and get people to come en masse. i only ran the once for them, and then the once for their competitor at the time. there's no point running for someone who abuses something like that. there's a word for that type of business practice and its not called micromanaging. (i don't know it fuckoff i hate english)

The lower amount of runs they set it to, the faster the battle pay promise will be taken down.  So it's not actually drawing in as much players as you exaggerate it to be.  I'd still say it's micromanaging.

Edited April 30, 2014 by LobsterFiend

[Retrikaethan]

I was checking deathsnacks constantly and I never saw under 500 tickets at a time be put out.

i don't think deathsnacks existed at the time. this was pretty early on. they might have gotten rich what with their 20% across the board tax on their, what, 5? 6? rails? i didnt count but i know they have a lot of them.

[LazyTheGypsy]

i'm amused at how many of you are coming to the aid of this alliance. makes me wonder how many belong to them.

 

also, how is it the communities fault the clans offer 75k for 10 runs or less? cuz that S#&$ was coming and going faster than cookies to a rich fat kid.

I'd aid other clans too if people were making outrageous claims about them. the alliance just seems to be the target of everyone's mudslinging.

 

It's the communities fault for being so quick to start speed-running due to how the game is set up, and how the payout works. It's the best plan, so It's obvious they would use it.

 

It was never less than ten runs. Like I said earlier, the lowest ticket quantity allocated was 500 from I saw.

 

EDIT-

 

i don't think deathsnacks existed at the time. this was pretty early on. they might have gotten rich what with their 20% across the board tax on their, what, 5? 6? rails? i didnt count but i know they have a lot of them.

 

8 rails. 

 

If it was early on, I'd assume the alliances didn't realize how quickly tickets would run out. Trial and error type S#&$, to see how long tickets would last, to find an optimal amount to setup at one time.

[LobsterFiend]

This is no different than those potato alerts and people complaining about needing only one more run.

[Babellon]

i'm amused at how many of you are coming to the aid of this alliance. makes me wonder how many belong to them.

 

also, how is it the communities fault the clans offer 75k for 10 runs or less? cuz that S#&$ was coming and going faster than cookies to a rich fat kid.

This discussion has nothing to do with this alliance, It is about timing. It is about the system and its one major flaw, the ability of the clan/alliance to setup battle pay in substantial amounts of increments to sustain a long siege.. It is also  about player misunderstanding and misinformation. 

 

If the clan/alliance sets up battle  pay for 100 people, those 100 people get paid, once it runs out they need to put in more.. Now, planning is essential. Now  knowing this, it needs to be recalculated on an individual clan/alliance level. You're not simply paying per run, you're paying per person. so perhaps some reconfiguration on the part of the alliance/clan and some recalculation as well, needs to happen. Again, this is not showing duplicity but a matter of math and timing.

[Retrikaethan]

This is no different than those potato alerts and people complaining about needing only one more run.

no, this is entirely different.

[Corvid]

no, this is entirely different.

 

No, it's exactly the same. People complaining about not receiving battle pay due to finishing a mission after it is no longer available.

[LazyTheGypsy]

Question: Since you mention this alliance and use "and their competitor at the time", why do you let that clan/alliance go unnamed? Not exactly fair to direct all of your accusations at this alliance when you're talking about other Solar Rail owners as well.

[Ritchel]

the system makes me mad because ive finished the mission but recieving nothing, its the same system with catalyst alerts that if you dont made it through the time limit you wont get the catalyst,

 

the problem with the battlepay mission success quota for the credit reward is it doesnt have a representation of how many people still be entitled for the credit pay.

 

 

this is the only thing that really bothers alot of people that participates on solar rails, according to the region chat responses ive seen.

 

 

one solution i see is: 

 

the system should be like:

-accepting the 50k reward mission and starting it , you'd be automatically entitled and registered with the mission quota with a sure 50k. 

 

AND IF the slots for the mission participants is already taken, there should be a system message that tells you that it is already full and you wont recieve any credit reward...

 

because the current system does:

-you will only get your reward if it havent reached the mission success quota.

if it reached the quota and youve just finished the mission you will recieve nothing even if you completed the mission which logically wrong.

 

 

 

 

i hope that i made my message clear. english isnt my main language