De Focus On Enemy Diversity

[Deidaku]

Seriosuly ; I think that's the main problem with the game. all the enemies within  a given faction behave the same and are just reskins or each other most of the time.

 

Example ; butchers and powerfists. Aren't powerfists supposed to be way bigger have more armor and not be a simple reskin with a furax?Sure they teleport but they still behave just like butchers.

 

Napalms and bombards , sure their guns are different but I still feel i'm figtiing just "a heavy" 

 

 

THe infested are worse , all melee units. I swear with a catalysed galatine and melee focused build solo high level survivors , anyone can survive for a long time. they just charge at you , and not in a swarmy way , which makes them easy to avoid . Where are the spitter , Contrictors , pouncers , Heavy units? flying units ? I don't care something different!

 

EDIT: and about the grineer why can't the dropships act like the Halo Phantom ships...you know, actually dropping  grineer into battle?

 

 

Corpus

 

Crewmen are just reskins of each other as well , *cough*techs*cough*  , I always seem to encounter sniper charging towards me,  the moas are boring to fight and all behave the same, and don't get me started on the shield ospreys , they're like space mosquitos.

 

They need mechs , spec ops , a railgun , anything maing them fun to fight

 

THe only diveristy amongsts enemy types is their damage 2.0 armor type .  That's not fun to fight at all.

 

The grineer are the most diverse , the corpus come in second , and then there"s the infested.......

 

After dark sectors 2.0 focus on this and new player experience please.  the lack of diversity makes the game boring really fast for a lot of people  , whether it be new players who just get bored fast or veterans who are tired of the lack of challenge

Edited April 30, 2014 by Deidaku

[Zardica]

I simply cannot agree enough.

[Retrikaethan]

would love to see more/better ranged infested, cuz right now all you need to do to stop them is drop a few bastille or a puddle.

[RealmDestroyer]

They already talked about this in the stream.

[FinnishHim]

I'm inclined to agree with you on this. Plus, it's not like every enemy would need to have a reskin and different weapon, though that would be cool (ex. Butcher and Powerfist looking different) but I would really like to see new animations or tactics. Flameblades and Scorpions (in keeping with the Grineer topic) do have unique moves, but again they mostly are just 1. Pop ability 2. Run directly at target  3. Spam attack... I would either like to see unique animations (ex. Powerfist having a more gladiator-beat-down kind of moveset than just the Butcher's with a Furax, or a Flameblade having short range teleport dodges). As for tactics, I would just like to see more agile enemies that would weave between cover more or having more dodging moves, or bursts of sprint speed, etc.

[Deidaku]

They already talked about this in the stream.

ABout the desigin council vote thing right?

 

Sure but that was only for infested.

 

I'm talking about ALL factions

[Wallace24]

somewhat related but you're right about the fact that a lot of enemies are pretty similar outside the weapon they use (in that case, some of the enemy categories I listed can be consolidated). alright, let's get a new count:

Infested (the easy one):

Chargers. Runners. Crawlers. Ancients. Done

 

Grineer:

Troopers/Lancers (also scorch), Scorpion, Bombard/Napalm, Heavy gunner, roller, helion, seeker, butchers (includes powerfists, flameblades), guardsmen, eviscerators (looks like I forgot that one in my post. well, some lapses were bound to happen)

 

Corpus:

Crewmen (all varieties), basic moas, shockwave moa, railgun moa, fusion/anti-moa (they're similar enough), offensive ospreys (mine, leech, oxium, drones), defensive ospreys (shield, scavenger drone), prod crewmen (the resident corpus melee unit), techs (which might just be considered bigger, badder crewmen, I suppose. remember when they used to spawn shield ospreys?)

 

fortunately, I think DE is planning on adding new units soon enough. I like to think we just got a taste with the guardsmen on ceres and the eximus enemy class. but maybe that's just wishful thinking

[Deidaku]

somewhat related but you're right about the fact that a lot of enemies are pretty similar outside the weapon they use (in that case, some of the enemy categories I listed can be consolidated). alright, let's get a new count:

Infested (the easy one):

Chargers. Runners. Crawlers. Ancients. Done

 

Grineer:

Troopers/Lancers (also scorch), Scorpion, Bombard/Napalm, Heavy gunner, roller, helion, seeker, butchers (includes powerfists, flameblades), guardsmen, eviscerators (looks like I forgot that one in my post. well, some lapses were bound to happen)

 

Corpus:

Crewmen (all varieties), basic moas, shockwave moa, railgun moa, fusion/anti-moa (they're similar enough), offensive ospreys (mine, leech, oxium, drones), defensive ospreys (shield, scavenger drone), prod crewmen (the resident corpus melee unit), techs (which might just be considered bigger, badder crewmen, I suppose. remember when they used to spawn shield ospreys?)

 

fortunately, I think DE is planning on adding new units soon enough. I like to think we just got a taste with the guardsmen on ceres and the eximus enemy class. but maybe that's just wishful thinking

I'm going to have to diagree about eximus

 

These are the exact problem = reskins with patched on warframe powers , that is boring as hell , why can't they call in dropships or a mech , or facility machinery , act like leaders?!

[Paradoxbomb]

The Infested are definitely the biggest offenders in terms of enemy diversity, the majority of them are just reskins and almost all them rely on hitting you with melee. The only real threat with the Infested is Ancients, who constantly stunlock you (which is honestly just frustrating rather than challenging) and can posion or disrupt you. And even then they're just as vulnerable to CC as every other infested.

 

I would like to see ranged units (beside the non-existent crawlers) and maybe even change Disruptors so that instead of just draining energy, they can temporarily dispel and prevent ability usage, meaning even God Mode frames like Rhino or Trinity will have to watch out for them. Some heavies and units that can buff/protect each other could help as well.

 

As for the Corpus, I think the Crewmen need to take a backseat to the MOAs and possibly other, more powerful proxies, like MK1-Hyenas. Add Repair Crewman who wield Spectras and use them to repair and buff proxies while hiding in the background. Otherwise the Corpus aren't that bad, they have quite a bit of diversity in terms of their units can do, I think it's just their lack of heavier units that's there Achilles's heel. Also I hear Corpus Techs will be revised soon, probably with exo-suits, so there's that to look forward too.

 

Finally, the Grineer are somewhat diverse, though I agree that their melee units and Heavies are pretty interchangeable. Also, too much emphasis on stun-locks makes them a nightmare when you have them altogether at once. :(

Edited April 30, 2014 by Paradoxbomb

[FinnishHim]

The Infested are definitely the biggest offenders in terms of enemy diversity, the majority of them are just reskins and almost all them rely on hitting you with melee. The only real threat with the Infested is Ancients, who constantly stunlock you (which is honestly just frustrating rather than challenging) and can posion or disrupt you. And even then they're just as vulnerable to CC as every other infested.

 

I would like to see ranged units (beside the non-existent crawlers) and maybe even change Disruptors so that instead of just draining energy, they can temporarily dispel and prevent ability usage, meaning even God Mode frames like Rhino or Trinity will have to watch out for them. Some heavies and units that can buff/protect each other could help as well.

 

As for the Corpus, I think the Crewmen need to take a backseat to the MOAs and possibly other, more powerful proxies, like MK1-Hyenas. Add Repair Crewman who wield Spectras and use them to repair and buff proxies while hiding in the background. Otherwise the Corpus aren't that bad, they have quite a bit of diversity in terms of their units can do, I think it's just their lack of heavier units that's there Achilles's heel. Also I hear Corpus Techs will be revised soon, probably with exo-suits, so there's that to look forward too.

 

Finally, the Grineer are somewhat diverse, though I agree that their melee units and Heavies are pretty interchangeable. Also, too much emphasis on stun-locks makes them a nightmare when you have them altogether at once. :(

 

Great ideas. Support that!

 

But in regards to Corpus, just a comment here, Anti-Moa were an excellent enemy addition. Moa idea taken in a new direction: new look, different stats and speed it seems, very unique weapon type, even different tactics in how they fire and shots they attempt to make. I would like to see that more.

[Noble_Cactus]

It doesn't help that all of the humanoid Corpus units look the same except that they wear different clown suits.

 

This was the thread where Draice said they'd consider Corpus Tech redesigns, possibly wearing exoskeletons: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/165158-are-corpus-tech-models-placeholders/

 

There was another thread in the Art and Animation subforum where someone linked to their concepts for different helmet/suit appearances for Corpus humanoids. I really liked them, but I can't find it.

 

Also, wasn't there concept art for a Grineer mecha a while back?

[Deidaku]

 

Great ideas. Support that!

 

But in regards to Corpus, just a comment here, Anti-Moa were an excellent enemy addition. Moa idea taken in a new direction: new look, different stats and speed it seems, very unique weapon type, even different tactics in how they fire and shots they attempt to make. I would like to see that more.

Yes I like fighting anti moas , they are different Not just fusion moa clones

 

 

It doesn't help that all of the humanoid Corpus units look the same except that they wear different clown suits.

 

This was the thread where Draice said they'd consider Corpus Tech redesigns, possibly wearing exoskeletons: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/165158-are-corpus-tech-models-placeholders/

 

There was another thread in the Art and Animation subforum where someone linked to their concepts for different helmet/suit appearances for Corpus humanoids. I really liked them, but I can't find it.

 

Also, wasn't there concept art for a Grineer mecha a while back?

I think it was a grineer tank not a mech?

 

Mechs should be for corpus

[LobsterFiend]

+1 I want improved AI.  In fact, it would be so awesome if the enemy gets so smart to the point that it's overwhelming.  Sounds really hard to do but the fun value in this game would skyrocket. 

[PhotriusPyrelus]

I really don't feel like this needs to be a priority.  The enemy variation is plenty sufficient.  But then, I really liked HALO, and the majority of that game consisted of fighting all of three different kinds of enemies (Unggoy, Kig-Yar, Sangheili).

[Deidaku]

+1 I want improved AI.  In fact, it would be so awesome if the enemy gets so smart to the point that it's overwhelming.  Sounds really hard to do but the fun value in this game would skyrocket. 

NOt only smart but diverse.

 

If there's no diversity you'll outsmart them  fast because they'd use the same gimmicks over and over

Edited May 1, 2014 by Deidaku

[Tengu-musume]

Enemy diversity would be welcome, but what we need even more is better enemy intelligence.

Formations alone can go a long way...

[Deidaku]

I really don't feel like this needs to be a priority.  The enemy variation is plenty sufficient.  But then, I really liked HALO, and the majority of that game consisted of fighting all of three different kinds of enemies (Unggoy, Kig-Yar, Sangheili).

I have to disagree.

 

Plenty and sufficient? no way , all the infested are the same . , the grineer are the only diverse one , and they could use some serious imrpovements

[LobsterFiend]

NOt only smart but diverse.

 

If there's no diversity you'll outsmart them  fast because they'd use the same gimmicks over and oer

That's the vision I'm looking for.  Just imagine that.  The enemies having different roles and using teamwork against you.

[Deidaku]

That's the vision I'm looking for.  Just imagine that.  The enemies having different roles and using teamwork against you.

And they could adapt depending of the mission ; Defense missions = spec ops offensive focused eneemies , or evens stealthy enemies to break through your defenses, in capture missions , a bodyguard eximus unit protectic the objective, and so on

[LobsterFiend]

And they could adapt depending of the mission ; Defense missions = spec ops offensive focused eneemies , or evens stealthy enemies to break through your defenses, in capture missions , a bodyguard eximus unit protectic the objective, and so on

Throw in some airstrikes or drop shock troopers for added chaos.

 

Edit: Scratch this.  I think I'm getting off-topic.

Edited May 1, 2014 by LobsterFiend

[Fubukin]

I thought the Eximus versions were an awesome addition to the game, stirring up expectations with the random elemental that could completely devastate your plans or at least make things a bit more tricky to deal with.

 

For the idea of putting range units into the ranks of the infested, I'd highly disagree. That fraction is meant to be mainly melee. Don't dillute that too much.

[LobsterFiend]

I thought the Eximus versions were an awesome addition to the game, stirring up expectations with the random elemental that could completely devastate your plans or at least make things a bit more tricky to deal with.

 

For the idea of putting range units into the ranks of the infested, I'd highly disagree. That fraction is meant to be mainly melee. Don't dillute that too much.

There are some ranged units like the lobbers and electric crawlers.

[Deidaku]

There are some ranged units like the lobbers and electric crawlers.

But their range is so small that it's inefficient . 

[CryoClaw]

Enemies 2.0

Yeah I'd like that

But there are so many 2.0's and 1.0's people want that they need to prioritize

[Deidaku]

Enemies 2.0

Yeah I'd like that

But there are so many 2.0's and 1.0's people want that they need to prioritize

and yet the dar sectors seem to be top priority.

 

I'm dissapointed by that. They should strengthen the core foundations of the game , ( now Movement, stealth and enemies are elft) before adding new tilesets and more mechanics. hell the UI is old now!