SolidSp33d Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Eclipse damage control tends to do the opposite of what is intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squig Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 BullS#&$. If you cared about 'keeping nodes open' you wouldn't attack, ever, because that just contributes to the problem of nodes being closed. You do, ergo this argument is bullS#&$. Not really. The fact is every node will be contested -every- time the -moment- it becomes available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinthir Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) Eclipse: We'll stop fighting by utterly decimating all competition and creating a monopoly. Peace for all. Also taxes. Edited May 1, 2014 by Zinthir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executor_Aeternus Posted May 1, 2014 Author Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) Eclipse: We'll stop fighting by utterly decimating all competition and creating a monopoly. Peace for all. I guess, theoretically that could be a solution -- but who the heck would be so much of an asshat as to deny all the playerbase their opportunity to enjoy the new system? That would be terrible! As it is we're just making sure the important nodes we have are free. Anyway, we're just gamers, man - I'd pity whatever alliance was willing to spam 7500 missions on a ridiculous amount of nodes to keep them open. xD Edited May 1, 2014 by LordGreymantle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Again. If you want to salvage what little respect is left from the non-Eclipse members, don't attack another node. Don't try to take more territory. Defend the nodes you already have. Don't expand. Then this "hate" for you will eventually die down. Keep trying to take more, and you'll be hated more. The community wasn't up in arms against you until you tried to take a zero tax node. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDarkClown Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Dance Puppets DANCE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executor_Aeternus Posted May 1, 2014 Author Share Posted May 1, 2014 I agree. We probably should've been a bit more public about our reasons, but I'm not in charge of that. As it is, I might be kicked for breaking the heavy rule of silence -- the last thing we want to be is a group of braggarts on the forums, undermining or whole efforts. I'm not in charge of what we do, that's true, but I'm fairly sure we don't have any intention of attacking other such rails. We have a few points we wanted to make sure were open, and we never actually wanted some of the rails we have, but I guess we're somewhat stuck with where we are. I mean, it's not like we can just drop a node and abandon our responsibility to the community. That would also dishonor the brave Tenno who fought against us for that node, so we'll do all we can to respect them and hold that ground as best we can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)InstaShark Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 ECLIPSE FOREVER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkjackal_2031 Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) The forums seem like festering hive of Eclipse hate. 2-3 threads every day complaining about them. I have given up trying to change that. The more you try to stop it, the worse it gets. I am just going to ignore any threads-good or bad- talking about them. Hopefully then, it will all just work itself out. If people hate eclipse and their taxes, then they will be removed. If people enjoy eclipse's huge sums of battle pay and availability, they will endure. Time will tell. I'm done devoting my sanity to this. -Jackal out Edited May 1, 2014 by Darkjackal_2031 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hadronox Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) Eclipse: We'll stop fighting by utterly decimating all competition and creating a monopoly. Peace for all. Also taxes. People throw words. Even -assuming- that Eclipse was able control all the Dark Sectors on the solar map, they will have monopoly over nothing. There is nothing that Dark Sectors offer that you cannot get in other places (save maybe for 1 stance) and people have been playing this game long before DS was introduced. Edited May 1, 2014 by Hadronox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 People throw words. Even -assuming- that Eclipse was able control all the Dark Sectors on the solar map, they will have monopoly over nothing. There is nothing that Dark Sectors offer that you cannot get in other places (save maybe for 1 stance) and people have been playing this game long before DS was introduced. That doesn't mean people should support them just because it doesn't mean anything. People have been used to nodes without taxes long before DS was introduced so it's understandable that people would defend a zero tax node and see Eclipse in a bad light for attacking that node. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hadronox Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) That doesn't mean people should support them just because it doesn't mean anything. People have been used to nodes without taxes long before DS was introduced so it's understandable that people would defend a zero tax node and see Eclipse in a bad light for attacking that node. I was not talking about taxes at all. I was arguing about monopoly, which is different. No one has any monopoly over anything in DS. As for taxes, if people want to defend 0% taxes, then all the power to them. But where were they when WiK needed their help against MotherRussia? Or does the principle of fighting for "freedom from taxes" only apply when it is convenient? Edited May 1, 2014 by Hadronox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatpig84 Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I am not talking about taxes at all. I am arguing about monopoly, which is different. No one has any monopoly over anything in DS. As for taxes, if people want to defend 0% taxes, then all the power to them. But where were they when WiK needed their help against MotherRussia? Or does the principle of fighting for "freedom from taxes" only apply when it is convenient? No motherRussia is upright n pious n just. You can't compare them to the greedy evil Eclipse who has 8 rails !!! Remember to have 8 rails, they must be the devil !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executor_Aeternus Posted May 1, 2014 Author Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) Heh, glad to see you guys come here with fair input and genuine interest. I've always thought some good honesty and openness is the best policy. The radio silence just wasn't doing much for us. Regarding the click war, yeah, you guys are right. We really did kinda luck out with that, we were all pretty surprised. (As a member though, I must say it was pretty epic - finding out we suddenly owned several nodes and the system would be counting on us to hold our ground responsibly and fight on the part of all of you). I wonder how long it would have taken us to get where we are now if it happened more gradually? Then again, we aren't exactly expansionist, so I'm not sure much really would have happened. About the only reason we've gone after a node is if we got irritated at it being closed for a while or wanted to see how the community might respond to different policies. Edited May 1, 2014 by LordGreymantle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ-7809 Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 If I see another post about Eclipse, I'm going to kill some *@##$es. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hadronox Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 No motherRussia is upright n pious n just. You can't compare them to the greedy evil Eclipse who has 8 rails !!! Remember to have 8 rails, they must be the devil !!! I know you are being sarcastic, but a principle is a principle. People keep claiming they are fighting to defend 0% taxes, and yet no one came to defend Wik (who had 0% tax), against MotherRussia (who are sporting a 15% tax). You either stand for something all the time, or you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I was not talking about taxes at all. I was arguing about monopoly, which is different. No one has any monopoly over anything in DS.As for taxes, if people want to defend 0% taxes, then all the power to them. But where were they when WiK needed their help against MotherRussia? Or does the principle of fighting for "freedom from taxes" only apply when it is convenient? The taxes part is a different discussion. The "That doesn't mean people should support them just because it doesn't mean anything" was a response to the monopoly doesn't mean anything point you were making. The rest about taxes was to make the point that, just like "there is nothing that Dark Sectors offer that you cannot get in other places...and people have been playing this game long before DS was introduced", people have also been used to no taxes on nodes. It's basically drawing off of what you were saying to give a rationale for why many people opposed Eclipse (and why some don't like taxes at all). Wasn't trying to say that you were talking about taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executor_Aeternus Posted May 1, 2014 Author Share Posted May 1, 2014 I understand that generalizing and compartmentalizing groups makes things easier to process, but I feel bad for some of my friends who have spent hours trying to clear nodes like Ceres immediately so players would be able to enjoy the Dark Sectors - particularly back when battles lasted 48 hours. Look at our history - we have never used a bait and switch tactic and always dedicated ourselves to defending your right to access solar rails as fast as possible. Now that the solar rail battles aren't as long, it actually means we absolutely need to be able to gather support quickly since the opportunity to defend ourselves has become such a small sliver of time. When a battle starts, we can't put it off knowing we have 48 hours to defend it, we need to be on that rail defending it immediately. So, we're likely to maintain some level of taxes to keep up battlepay support and at least to help us repair our rails.On the other hand, given that you all did so well proving you cared about 0% rails, we might lower taxes. It still worries us though how the community totally abandoned 0% rails to the wolves, like what happened to some tax-free alliances that made valiant attempts to maintain rails for you all. So, we're likely to go for a lower tax, but still keep some for repairs and some decent battlepay. We agree: 20% still seems more than we'd like to charge, as the number is fairly notable, but from what I know it seems that only comes from drops. When you're guaranteed 10k bonus on our Ceres node or other high amounts... I hope it isn't offensive that I say this, but I don't think 20% of the tiny amount of credit drops you'll find in a mission is very much. Still, that might be too much for the community so as always, we're looking for input and want to hear what you all have to say. Communication is key - we've learned that well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hadronox Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 The taxes part is a different discussion. The "That doesn't mean people should support them just because it doesn't mean anything" was a response to the monopoly doesn't mean anything point you were making. The rest about taxes was to make the point that, just like "there is nothing that Dark Sectors offer that you cannot get in other places...and people have been playing this game long before DS was introduced", people have also been used to no taxes on nodes. It's basically drawing off of what you were saying to give a rationale for why many people opposed Eclipse (and why some don't like taxes at all). Wasn't trying to say that you were talking about taxes. Dude I am simply trying to get across 1 simple point: There is not monopoly. That is all. You want to have tangent arguments, fine. But you still did not answer my question about defending 0% taxes in the case of Wik vs MR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganin Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 1. I must admit that i am curious to see if something happens if Eclipse manages to control all the nodes. 2. Dont use the word goals, goals is such a boring word. Try using "agenda", it sounds way cooler. agenda... i love this word for some reason. 3. I dont know why ppl are so mad about the taxes, sure you dont get as much credits but, still, you get a load of credits. 4. Didnt one of the devs said something about giving battle pay or using smaller taxes when in conflict and then crank it up when controlling the nodes in the update 13 hype video? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Dude I am simply trying to get across 1 simple point: There is not monopoly. That is all. You want to have tangent arguments, fine. But you still did not answer my question about defending 0% taxes in the case of Wik vs MR? I called for it. I promoted helping WiK. I helped WiK. I think people were so focused on defending Sechura. Not only that, but WiK didn't get the repeat threads like SoV did (and I'm not one to make some big promotional thread). But I can't speak to why people didn't defend WiK. But I can go off of what people have said about stopping Eclipse from taking Sechura. And I think at the end of the day this was as much about defending Sechura as it was about stopping Eclipse from taking a ninth node. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parinirvana Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Eh other alliance can do the exact same thing you do, providing the same service. You take players money to repair/protect/INVADE other alliances' DS, you should mention that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurzil Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 -sigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loswaith Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) ... and we never actually wanted some of the rails we have ... Then why attack those nodes if you never wanted the rails in the first place? The taxes are an issue though as it actually drops the amount of credits you get for the missions to below that of a normal node mission (battlepay is not going to cover that). I suspect most people play the nodes to fight infested rather than any actual benefits (sure the xp is good but thats the nature of an infested survival/defence). While you can say you are 'trying to protect' the dark sector node you could have shown it with just one planet first rather than mass expanding into other nodes as well. Few people I'm sure would have issues if you took just the ceres nodes and left the others alone. You can also "protect" a node simply by putting your weight into fighting for a side that currently owns a node or even a contestor to maybe let new team try out the owning side of thing. The dark sectors are new, so everyone wants to try thier hand at it, once they have tried it a lot will likely not be interested and move on. The big factor though is Ecliplse is showing they are doing differently to what you mention they are doing (whether thats intended or not). We all know actions speaks louder than words. Edited May 1, 2014 by Loswaith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hadronox Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) I called for it. I promoted helping WiK. I helped WiK. I think people were so focused on defending Sechura. Not only that, but WiK didn't get the repeat threads like SoV did (and I'm not one to make some big promotional thread). But I can't speak to why people didn't defend WiK. But I can go off of what people have said about stopping Eclipse from taking Sechura. And I think at the end of the day this was as much about defending Sechura as it was about stopping Eclipse from taking a ninth node. This is not directed at you btw, but is my general sentiment. The way I see it, Sechura was not about "defending 0% tax", it was about opposing "Eclipse" at any cost. There is a big difference. If it was done under the "defending 0% tax" principle (which I very much respect on moral and ethical grounds), there would have been absolutely no reason to let WiK fall. But sadly they did. If that is not hypocrisy, I don't know what is. Edited May 1, 2014 by Hadronox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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