OniDax Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 So you are implying that we are not allowed to keep rails that we have been able to defend since it was deployed? Are you sure you are talking sense? o.o You've completely missed the point. I explained the point, and you still deliberately twist it. Stop trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squig Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Those are my credits that you want me to earn for you... so you can make me do more work for you to get them back... so you can just outright take my resources for yourselves. But you do it to help me, really. Yes because our 0% tax on resources is -clearly- stealing your resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 The problem is a -lot- of people are simply jumping to the defense of their own side and no amount of explaining will change their views. Heck I see a couple of my posts in his "claimed" inflammatory and while I'll be the first to say I may be condescending when you've tried to explain something dozens of times it leads to one becoming rather "Flippant" in explanations when people are making wild accusations. While Antoine has never as far as I've seen been out of line with his behavior he's clearly been on a particular side from the get go in the same way Eclipse supporters are. That's because most of them are just parroting the claim that Eclipse promised 0% tax. We never did promise 0% taxes forever and anyone who took the initial message to mean that clearly doesn't understand English very well. While there's nothing wrong with them failing to understand that does not make us liars. Yes, I'm on a particular side. Not the no-tax side, but the "I'll support the 0% defender against the attacker" side. That's all. And my post, in case anyone thinks this, wasn't meant to say that only the Eclipse supporters have done this. Again, both sides have been flaming each other. I honestly wish they'd just close any remaining threads talking about this because it's going in circles and isn't resolving itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENDER357 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 as i said on my other thread People want their cake, and then they want to swallow that fking cake whole and they also want what other people have, there is a word for it, its called coveting "Eclipse taxes too high", "but i want at least 10k battlepay" "Eclipse has 8 out of the 26 rails, thats a monopoly, they shouldnt have that" "Eclipse promised no taxes" "Eclipse is greedy for taking so many nodes" "no one should support eclipse because they dont play fair" right...as if any of those statements are even close to being true first off , Eclipse has 30.7% of the nodes, not 95%, which at that point could be considered a monopoly second, they charge taxes to pay for their 50K battlepay, i you are challenged and dont understand the way it works, go look up deathsnacks, it is a very good website tht will explain things third, just because someone has something that you dont, doesnt mean its unfair, Eclipse was there first and they got the upper hand, they were well organized from what i can tell and they had a good plan for how they would do things do i agree 100% with Eclipse? yes, because its not Eclipse that is doing wrong, its DE that did wrong when they made the DS system, its inherently flawed and until they fix the costs and the way battle pay and taxes work, it will never be what it should be i dont think Eclipse has too many rails, they just got there first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-CM-LittleSnow Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 You've completely missed the point. I explained the point, and you still deliberately twist it. Stop trolling. I am not trolling. I just don understand why people are whining and complaining that we have 8 rails when we got there first. All these post will not exist if it was their alliance having these 8 rails anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhiasu Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 You guys really do like to cause drama about this alliance. I really do wonder who's in the wrong here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-CM-LittleSnow Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) You guys really do like to cause drama about this alliance. I really do wonder who's in the wrong here. No one is entirely in the wrong. Some people just want to see drama and it so happened that Eclipse is in the limelight. Edited May 2, 2014 by x1aok1tty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter3.0 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 People whine about eclipse. People run for eclipse for battlepay. People whine again just because they saw others whining. Dafuq. seriously xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etsoree Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 1. We clear our nodes as fast as possible so you guys can actually play the nodes and get the materials, mods, exp and credits you want. As our taxes don't affect the mods you get or the boatloads of exp, and only go to funding the repairs of the Rails and the battlepay. Stopped reading after that paragraph after I read that. I use Dark Sectors for credits. I don't want to support you people when the rail is under attack, so I don't fight for you. You keep the rail taxed too high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullburstmode Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) Read through the whole thread, most of the anti-Eclipse sentiment just feels like tall poppy syndrome zzzz Apart from a few bumps I think the system works okay (could be better), whoever has more support for whatever reason will eventually prevail. This has been shown with Eclipse holding rails for a time in the face of intense scrutiny, Eclipse eventually losing nodes, arguably alliances like Clan Ghost Bear managing to hold on (though they've recently set a 3% credit tax, watch as people say it's okay because it's "low") for so long without any real incentive, another alliance contesting with extremely high tax rate and still succeeding over a "low tax" clan, the list goes on. You could ignore most of the list and just take the fact that Eclipse has lost territory as the system working. If anything the people who criticise Eclipse for taxing are immediately called to question because a clan that contested with high advertised tax succeeded. Still, I'm not complaining either way. They clearly had the support for it and the anti-taxers failed to defend 0% tax in that case so why shouldn't they get the node? If people are compelled enough it'll change. For what it's worth the "high tax" + "epic battlepay" combo Eclipse has implemented has actually very strongly bolstered my wallet with little effort and Dark Sectors are pretty much all I play anymore (and mostly in Eclipse territory too). Granted I don't know how typical my play experience is but for me income through battlepay far outstrips how much I lose to tax (which in relative teams means that the tax is "low"), I expect there is a balance out there somewhere but I think it'd be great if the battlepay were kept more consistent/constant for the duration of a given conflict (as I understand it the system makes this somewhat difficult though not impossible?). tldr: this dark sector player thinks everyone needs to chill out a bit. EDIT: Eclipse needs to keep their recruiting in recruiting tho :V Edited May 2, 2014 by fullburstmode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyte Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 EDIT: Eclipse needs to keep their recruiting in recruiting tho :V Recruitment is closed tho. :V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hadronox Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) Stopped reading after that paragraph after I read that. I use Dark Sectors for credits. I don't want to support you people when the rail is under attack, so I don't fight for you. You keep the rail taxed too high. No offense, but most people run quick T3s for credit as those are still consistently the best source. And those are only surpassed by high Eclipse Battlepay which are expectedly situational since you need to wait for DS conflicts for them. So, if you are after credits, especially if you have a credit booster on, I recommend you do quick T3 runs. Edited May 2, 2014 by Hadronox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willis936 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 My only issue with eclipse is that they, like everyone else, garnered support before initial deployment by promising no taxes. They then threw that out the window immediately. I appreciate being reasonable and the arguments on both sides but using something that was, whether or not it intended to be, a lie for control doesn't sit well with me. If eclipse had promised to be reasonable in its ventures then I wouldn't have any reservations about playing for them every once in a while. Also the tax is rather high. This parallels closely to monopoly vs. competition. Sure you can do cooler things with a monopoly but if the goal is profit (regardless of whether or not it's to reinvest) it will be more costly to the players. This isn't a shared natural resource. People are going to play less on systems they're taxed on. 10% credit only is reasonable. 20% credit 10% resource is not. I'll support competition until taxes become more reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yurilica Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) No offense, but most people run quick T3s for credit as those are still consistently the best source. And those are only surpassed by high Eclipse Battlepay which are expectedly situational since you need to wait for DS conflicts for them. So, if you are after credits, especially if you have a credit booster on, I recommend you do quick T3 runs. Most people moved to Pluto-Sechura for straight credit runs actually. That's why Eclipse got stomped into the ground when they deployed an attack there. Sechura gives you guaranteed 23k for a mere 5 waves, doesn't require keys and very often actually gives you T2 and T3 keys within the first 5 waves. So if you're solo-farming, Sechura is way quicker and more reliable than T3's, especially since it actually gives you keys that you can then use with your clanmates for even more dosh or just prime part farming. If you want to. Edited May 2, 2014 by Yurilica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeMoog Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Personally I do not understand how taking a chunk of the reward from people ginding the zones for resources and then in theory giving it to mercenaries who fight to keep Eclipse in power has any virtue at all, it isn't like it be being done for any other reason than to maintain their control of the zone. Add in the unreasonable difficulty to any other allience who have not held the same number of zones for so long that they have accumulated a massive stockpile of bribes for the mercenaries means that unless the zones become controlled by far fewer alliences then Eclipse will have a strange hold until people stop grinding their zones. It is hardly surpising then that people resent this group especially when things are going to get harder in the contention missions and are set to most benefit this same group again If they was some way of making a temporary allience with one side of a contention or even having a easy way to communicate with an allience then that would allow for change but the ingame system leaves most WF out in the cold and so they vent their spleen on the forums. I still think that alliences need to be more accessible and until the system becomes a fair fight where all players have an equal chance then a single zone per allience. The bugs in the DZ system are still being ironed out but right now the only involvement possible to me as a player is supporting alliences that oppose Eclipe's effective monopoly on most required resources. Right now I have a stock pile of neural sensors etc but I will eventually haev to grind some and it wont be in an Eclipse controlled zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatantfool Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 People whine about eclipse. People run for eclipse for battlepay. People whine again just because they saw others whining. Dafuq. seriously xD Important to keep in mind that the people who are unhappy with your Alliance probably aren't the same people running the missions on behalf of your Alliance. There are less hypocrites out there then you'd think. There is a great deal more people who play this game then just the portion you see here in the forums. While this doesn't necessarily mean that the people who don't like Eclipse are a minority - it is a reasonably safe bet that there are more people who don't care either way then there is people who've made up their mind what they think of your Alliance already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hadronox Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) Most people moved to Pluto-Sechura for straight credit runs actually. That's why Eclipse got stomped into the ground when they deployed an attack there. Sechura gives you guaranteed 23k for a mere 5 waves, doesn't require keys and very often actually gives you T2 and T3 keys within the first 5 waves. So if you're solo-farming, Sechura is way quicker and more reliable than T3's, especially since it actually gives you keys that you can then use with your clanmates for even more dosh or just prime part farming. If you want to. Yeah that is nice if you have no keys, but something like a T3C gives you over 26k for like 1-2 mins work. Edited May 2, 2014 by Hadronox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Important to keep in mind that the people who are unhappy with your Alliance probably aren't the same people running the missions on behalf of your Alliance. There are less hypocrites out there then you'd think. There is a great deal more people who play this game then just the portion you see here in the forums. While this doesn't necessarily mean that the people who don't like Eclipse are a minority - it is a reasonably safe bet that there are more people who don't care either way then there is people who've made up their mind what they think of your Alliance already. From what I have read on all this there are a lot of different anti-eclipse people. From bandwagon haters and poo stirrers to people who feel betrayed by a no tax promise they feel was broken. I thought it was all just kind of interesting but then the attempted Pluto expansion occurred and I jumped firmly in the anti-eclipse camp. Though it says a lot about the whole DS experiment that I am this excited about the game again when I was looking at burn out last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead_Rabbits Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Pretty sure the ignorance surrounding the majority of the player base is blinding them from reason. Keep on trucking Eclipse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadlyNerd Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I ran their rail def mission once, for 20k, didn't get the payout cause they cheapskated, and since then I run against them just to kill their specters. Thankfully they can't go near Pluto, which is my fav farm spot, Cheers to the SoV clan. Btw, many thanks on the nikana mod from one of your specters. Oh, and put in some cosmic specters so I can 1shot them for S#&$s and giggles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BizarreFetalChimpanzee Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I see the argument of battlepay, but I all too often end up getting jipped because everyone else before me got said battlepay. I don't like the insane taxes on the dark sectors because I'd prefer a guaranteed credit payment than a gamble with battlepay that someone else could have easily claimed. Not to mention that your alliance started off with the notion of "0% tax!" and then took away the 0%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyte Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I ran their rail def mission once, for 20k, didn't get the payout cause they cheapskated, and since then I run against them just to kill their specters. Thankfully they can't go near Pluto, which is my fav farm spot, Cheers to the SoV clan. You snooze you lose, 10o. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yurilica Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) Yeah that is nice if you have no keys, but something like a T3C gives you over 26k for like 1-2 mins work. I'm not saying that T3 doesn't give more credits for effectively less time invested per mission. But T3's in general have way more requirements than just a quick run to Sechura. Key, proper gear(you can't really take just anything there) and a frame that is actually fast enough to do it in "1-2 mins". Ideally you'd also want to run it in a group, so you either get clanmates or go to recruiting tab. Meanwhile, Sechura is safe, gives very good credits, is a very popular(and easy) leveling spot, a great key farming spot and can be ran with pubs with no issue whatsoever. The only downsides are that it gives no Prime blueprints and it technically takes more time per mission. But when you consider it's both a credit, T3/T2 key and EXP farm spot, you start to realize how good it is. Just explaining that the community paradigm shifted from T3 runs for credits to Sechura runs ever since Dark Sectors got introduced. Edited May 2, 2014 by Yurilica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadlyNerd Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) You snooze you lose, 10o. meh, in my book nikana mod>20k credits I can get in 2min of t3c(which I'm getting tons on Pluto, cheers again SoV). I think I killed your specter a couple times. No, scratch that, a dozen times. Btw, if I ever decide I want to lose a campaign due to marketing failures, I'll call on you. Way to represent your alliance. Edited May 2, 2014 by DeadlyNerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyte Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) meh, in my book nikana mod>20k credits I can get in 2min of t3c(which I'm getting tons on Pluto, cheers again SoV). I think I killed your specter a couple times. No, scratch that, a dozen times. Btw, if I ever decide I want to lose a campaign due to marketing failures, I'll call on you. Way to represent your alliance. If I'm not talking about Eclipse I'm not repping my alliance. I've been posting like this since july 2013, I ain't gonna change now. At least I don't derive childish glee from killing an NPC that happens to wear a person's name. Neither I was the one complaining about cheapskating (which is wrong, btw, as my little comment may have been too subtle in pointing out). Edited May 2, 2014 by Kyte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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