Unfair To Free Players

[Speary]

Either pay money or work your way up to it. There are thousands of F2Players like you who were happy with the opportunity to unlock all in-game content without shelling out a single cent. They all grinded out the hours and built the items they wanted. Why should the system change just for you?

Edited April 5, 2013 by Speary

[Wazzzabi]

I am new to Warframe and have only been playingfor a week. I was really interested and exicted to see a new style of game with some cool gameplay features.

Immediatley upon playing, I found the game to be very fun. I really liked how Rhino looked and was excited to get to level 2 to unlock him. I assumed I would be able to buy frames with the in game money I had worked so hard to gather. However, I was really displeased when I discovered I would need to shell out $10 just to get a new frame.

I really like this game so far and would like to continue playing but I fear I will stop playing if the only way to get a new frame is to pay with real cash or search for peices to the frame and wait multiple days for it to be complete.

The game should offer more options for free players to advance or it should not be considered a free to play game. Because it seems to me that the game is more like a preveiw and not a full game unless you pay with cash.

I would really appreciate this issue to be addressed so that more people feel welcome to come and play. I do not want to see Warframe go down the dark path of many other F2P games that offer free fun and then virtually demand real money to get a full experience.

I am anxious to see how the developers feel about my concerns.

Thank you.

I'm disgusted by human's insatiable thirst for free stuffs.... There will never be enough to satisfy them and no matter how much free stuffs you give, some A****** is just going to ask for more.

To op, would you fork out your own hard earned cash to make a game that lets people play for free? For that matter, would you work for free?

[Grilleds]

Eh? No you just need to buy the Rhino Blueprint and get the required materials. If I recall they drop from the Jackal which is not a hard boss to do.

It is for a new player. Takes like 20 minutes for 4 people with default equipment and basic mods to beat him and he has a OHKO attack. Way easier once you get better gear though.

Besides, it's not like the starter frames are "bad" or "inferior" in any way.

Well no, but the starter frames excluding Excalibur aren't really easy to use.

Volt is kind of situational and is practically useless against Infected (Who happen to be the best faction to farm from), Loki is hard to use for a newbie, and Excalibur's practically one trick pony (albeit a very good one trick). When Mag replaced Volt, new players were given the option of starting with a fairly good "caster" archetype who doesn't really have a faction she is weak against unlike Volt, but she is still kind of advanced compared to Excalibur and Volt who were straightforward in their use.

I chose Volt as my starter frame, and while he is still my favorite, I'll admit I thought he felt kind of crappy until I ranked up Energy Shield and realized when good times to put it up are.

I've spent 150+ hours farming banshee parts blueprints. I still don't have them.

Pssh, at least you can farm them from different levels. It took me 76 runs since I started counting them to get all the part blueprints I needed for Ember. I never want to see Ruk again.

Edit: Actually, you can't get color sets or new slots for free.

The slots are what annoys me. World of Tanks uses the same model, but also has cheaper premium currency in general and actually gives you plenty of tank slots to start with.

[LordLokai]

Just to add my thoughts to over all fabrication of the frames are some things bother me about it... but not so much time spent but well i'll just get to it.

1: When you buy the blue prints you always have to assume " double " what ever they charge you. Why? because once you have materials have to pay same exact fee to build it... i think that fee needs to go... charging me 25k for the blueprints then another 25k to build the damn thing...thats double dipping.... that is probably one thing annoys me more then anything else!

2: Grinding materials make the game feel like a job...i quite seriously spent 8 hours a day playing the game grinding out my ember...mind you i had a few days off and was super into the game at that point.... but i seriously cant do that all the time. Basically if gonna play free have to make the game your life for a couple of weeks to get stuff you want. PLUS with the latest patch... cant even get uncommon materials to drop anymore so might as well tack on a extra 20 hours to your grinding...

All in all... i know they want us to buy it with plat... but amount of resources needed and double dipping drive me insane... time itself isnt a big deal i can go play other games while i wait... but sheer cost... and rarity of items forcing grinding is kind of turning me off of the game...

[Grilleds]

2: Grinding materials make the game feel like a job...i quite seriously spent 8 hours a day playing the game grinding out my ember...mind you i had a few days off and was super into the game at that point.... but i seriously cant do that all the time. Basically if gonna play free have to make the game your life for a couple of weeks to get stuff you want. PLUS with the latest patch... cant even get uncommon materials to drop anymore so might as well tack on a extra 20 hours to your grinding...

All in all... i know they want us to buy it with plat... but amount of resources needed and double dipping drive me insane... time itself isnt a big deal i can go play other games while i wait... but sheer cost... and rarity of items forcing grinding is kind of turning me off of the game...

This is pretty much the reason I hate most games that require any sort of grinding. Grinding is filler, and filler usally isn't the same thing as content. Warframe does this a little better in most cases due to being action oriented rather than an RPG which does away some some of the repitiitveness usually associated with grinding, but when farming for blueprints for warframes I still felt, well, bored. Main reason I play these types of games is because my friends do. I personally find this game much more enjoyable when I play it with 3-4 friends while voice chatting on Steam or Skype since the team based aspects of it start to really shine when you are able to better communicate with your team.

Warframe is better than its competition within the same genre, but it does still feel tedious to play when my friends aren't on. Hopefully when the game is no longer in beta, this will be fixed due to there overall being more content.

[Archkronos]

I am new to Warframe and have only been playingfor a week.

[/thread]

Let him get used to it.

[xathil]

@OP getting a new frame is essentially the same thing as getting a whole new class in most other games. you have to work for it in most games. no exception here. if you cant handle killing bosses a couple dozen times and spending 100k credits ish total... you obviously have no patience to begin with and guess what those platinum prices are for? you guessed it! impatient people. so either play the game like the rest of us who have only spent $5 and bought no frames or weapons (hint: buy SLOTS!) and have farmed enough bosses to get bps for all the frames except excalibur (missing 1 piece), banshee (also missing 1 piece) ember (missing 1 piece). and have crafted every single piece of weaponary availible (except fang,dark sword, plasma sword and viper)

[Imbaland]

[/thread]

Let him get used to it.

This works for once off purchase games, as the initial expense is usually motivation enough for people to try and get their money's worth out. However, with free to play / micro transaction based games, first impressions are everything, because this player currently has no incentive to "get used to it".

[laubauflo]

Warframe has blended all the F2P features in equalty with platinum players.

I find it challenging.

if you'd buy everything and have everything you'd rage it was too easy.

[Grilleds]

Warframe has blended all the F2P features in equalty with platinum players.

I find it challenging.

if you'd buy everything and have everything you'd rage it was too easy.

It IS easy when teams actually stick together. Just tedious.

[laubauflo]

It IS easy when teams actually stick together. Just tedious.

Or you have a good strategy before going head to head with the enemy.

[Sormor]

I have to agree somewhat with the OP. While the "you have no patience" argument works in some cases, it doesn't when you're talking about a new player that has only played for week. Personally, if you want me to pay for something, either in time or money, you had better make it worth what I put into it. In the case of Warframe, I don't think the current time/cash amounts I have to put into it are worth it. Yes, I could very easily farm up the mats for another frame (somewhat bored with the Loki playstyle), but that takes a lot of time that I simply don't have/want to put into this game. I shouldn't be forced to farm just to get some options, especially at the early stages of the game. It's simply not good design. The current state of this game is fairly offputting to new players, since you are locked into a specific playstyle right off the bat until you can either farm enough credits to buy a new weapon, or farm enough materials to buy a new frame.

The "support the game" argument doesn't work well either, since we're talking about players that aren't even sure they want to continue playing the game at this point, so why should they support it? It has nothing to do with being cheap, and everything to do with not wanting what's being sold.

Queue the "miser" flame.

[neKroMancer]

I have to agree somewhat with the OP. While the "you have no patience" argument works in some cases, it doesn't when you're talking about a new player that has only played for week. Personally, if you want me to pay for something, either in time or money, you had better make it worth what I put into it. In the case of Warframe, I don't think the current time/cash amounts I have to put into it are worth it. Yes, I could very easily farm up the mats for another frame (somewhat bored with the Loki playstyle), but that takes a lot of time that I simply don't have/want to put into this game. I shouldn't be forced to farm just to get some options, especially at the early stages of the game. It's simply not good design. The current state of this game is fairly offputting to new players, since you are locked into a specific playstyle right off the bat until you can either farm enough credits to buy a new weapon, or farm enough materials to buy a new frame.

The "support the game" argument doesn't work well either, since we're talking about players that aren't even sure they want to continue playing the game at this point, so why should they support it? It has nothing to do with being cheap, and everything to do with not wanting what's being sold.

Queue the "miser" flame.

Which game doesn't require some form of investment?

All games require players to invest something into it. You buy retail game, you invest your money into something you can find demo version from developer (which could be misleading like Alien: Colonial marines). In F2P model you simply have access to the game for free but there's always the catch. Most F2P games require either time to farm/grind the content or money if you want things quick and easy. Farming is a way for free players to gain/earn content for free. It's depends on how much you like the game.

Warframe is a game that require big investment from new players since most of the content simply doesn't exist yet and wipe is always a possibility. However, I enjoy watching the game takes shape and grow. DE and their dedication makes the game promising. It's Warframe's hook and the moment.

The proposal about allowing new players to try which frame suit their playstyle has been brought up quite a lot but it probably not going to be implemented until the game actually launched. It's good idea but there's no time for it, yet. Right now, new players can create a second account to try new starter frame and find whether it suits his/her playstyle or not. I spend almost 10 days to get my second frame which was around 15-20 hours of game time.

[HexCaliber]

All of the equipment in game can be obtained through game play alone, if you are unsure how. check out the wikia. http://warframe.wiki...i/WARFRAME_Wiki

Actually it cannot, other than the 4 free revives once a day (if you have none in your inv), you cannot buy revives for in game currency. Not a big thing in co-op, but huge for solo play, particularly once you try soloing stuff like defend missions. As I posted elsewhere I have no problem investing money in free to play, I really have invested thousands of pounds doing so and don't begrudge a penny of it. However, this is the first time I have found something in a free to play game than can be truly accused of being pay to win.

Edited April 5, 2013 by HexCaliber

[Venarge]

Actually it cannot, other than the 4 free revives once a day (if you have none in your inv), you cannot buy revives for in game currency. Not a big thing in co-op, but huge for solo play, particularly once you try soloing stuff like defend missions. As I posted elsewhere I have no problem investing money in free to play, I really have invested thousands of pounds doing so and don't begrudge a penny of it. However, this is the first time I have found something in a free to play game than can be truly accused of being pay to win.

Since a revive is not equipment, everything can be obtained ingame.

And you dont pay to win. You pay to be able to get revived. Since you loose nothing during a forfeit, a solo player should be able to see if he can make it through the mission or not without wasting his revives.

Especially Solo players.....

Besides that. People are just spoilt these days. They die in a game. Who gives a f****. I have a savepoint here, here and here so i dont care. Thats the only reason people complain about the revive system. This game gives you 4 chances. if you fail them, well, you have to learn it the hard way....

Edited April 5, 2013 by Venarge

[HexCaliber]

Since a revive is not equipment, everything can be obtained ingame.

And you dont pay to win. You pay to be able to get revived. Since you loose nothing during a forfeit, a solo player should be able to see if he can make it through the mission or not without wasting his revives.

Especially Solo players.....

Besides that. People are just spoilt these days. They die in a game. Who gives a f****. I have a savepoint here, here and here so i dont care. Thats the only reason people complain about the revive system. This game gives you 4 chances. if you fail them, well, you have to learn it the hard way....

It’s an item in the game that allows you to complete a mission despite being downed, an item that is not available to buy for in game credits, but is available for plat, its pay to win any way you want to spin it.

Remove it altogether or offer a way to craft or purchase with in game currency. I have no problem seeing all revives removed, not one, this has nothing to do with game difficulty, however, NO item should be available for real world currency that affects gameplay that is not available for in game credits.

As for "these days" I have gamed since the zx80 which I built from a kit and learned to program in assembly language entering code in binary. There isn’t an fps or tps you have played on PC that I have not, in fact it is highly likely its the other way around, so feel free to stick that attitude where the sun doesn’t shine.

Edited April 5, 2013 by HexCaliber

[Aerensiniac]

I really like this game so far and would like to continue playing but I fear I will stop playing if the only way to get a new frame is to pay with real cash or search for peices to the frame and wait multiple days for it to be complete.

Did you honestly imply just now that you want everything in the game without investing any kind of effort into it?

Please think a bit more carefully about what you are requesting, cause it doesnt make the slightest bit of sense unless you are a child spoiled beyond redemption.

I have to agree somewhat with the OP. While the "you have no patience" argument works in some cases, it doesn't when you're talking about a new player that has only played for week.

If you dont have time to play chess, then dont play chess. Its as simple as that.

You do not simply demand to change the rules of chess and reduce the number of pieces on the board to 2 just because you dont have time to play it, but still want to, and eeeeeeverybody should comply with what you want to do.

Sorry bro but if people find it tedious to invest effort into something then they shouldnt do it in the first place.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Aerensiniac

[Kurochikun]

As F2P goes I think the devs are pretty generous, it's definently not pay to win like Gunz or S4 League.

The game is free, you can fork out 5£ for a frame of your choice other than the first one you get, if you want more you can farm them or pay more. The devs conviniently give you 50 plat to start with, so you don't have to pay 19£, making it just enough with 5£. Good Guy Devs~

Even the revives, you are suppose to die and be game over, like regular games, devs give you 4 revives and extra revives if for the tiny ammount of plat. It recharges every midnight, I never got to the point where I said "well, im out of revives, better not play today". You are not suppose to be soloing the game, if revives were made free, you would just solo all the time, the revive refill is there if "you really really want to complete this mission today!"

You want examples of greedy devs? Try s4 league, you simply CANNOT play and win without paying cash, paid guns are stronger, and do not need repairs, Free weapons need VERY expensive repairs, to the point that you either walk around on your undies to afford them or have only one gun.

Guns of Icarus, you pay 15£ for the game, and you have to pay another 5£ per shirt, pants and helmet, you only get 1 set of clothes.

or Uncharted 3, pay the full 40£ game, and still needs online pass (if you bought it pre-owned) and 2£ per character which already is featured in the damn game.

Naruto Storm 3, broken fighter with characters that have literaly invicibility when they use certain moves... So are they going to update it, and fix it? :D No, F*** that! They just sell useless copy paste DLC for 2£... if at least it was good DLC, like Akatsuki Robed Leaf Ninja or something, no It's School uniforms... regular school uniforms! Literaly copypasted on 3 female characters.

PlanetSide 2 where you either farm 3 weeks for a gun or pay 20£.... EACH!

Don't you dare complain about warframe, you seem extremely spoiled or ignorant to gaming market.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Kurochikun

[Aerensiniac]

As F2P goes I think the devs are pretty generous, it's definently not pay to win like Gunz or S4 League.

^ This ^

[krisp]

if the only way to get a new frame is to pay with real cash or search for peices to the frame and wait multiple days for it to be complete.

What a shallow way to make a complaint. Mention a certain feature that is at odds with your concern, but ignore everything about it in the hope that people just overlook the fact that it exists.

At this point I shouldn't be replying since OP hasn't said a thing after 4 pages. But...

What is your justification for saying that the current way of obtaining warframes through nothing but a time investment requires you to pay real money? How do you reconcile your complaint about needing to pay when there is a non-random and overall not very hard method of acquiring paid content for free? Why is your concern worded as if the problem was the game's lack of free content whereas it's more about your displeasure on how the free content is acquired? What is your excuse for the misleading title? And finally, what are the specifics of your problem with the current system of acquiring warframes?

[Venarge]

It’s an item in the game that allows you to complete a mission despite being downed, an item that is not available to buy for in game credits, but is available for plat, its pay to win any way you want to spin it.

Remove it altogether or offer a way to craft or purchase with in game currency. I have no problem seeing all revives removed, not one, this has nothing to do with game difficulty, however, NO item should be available for real world currency that affects gameplay that is not available for in game credits.

As for "these days" I have gamed since the zx80 which I built from a kit and learned to program in assembly language entering code in binary. There isn’t an fps or tps you have played on PC that I have not, in fact it is highly likely its the other way around, so feel free to stick that attitude where the sun doesn’t shine.

So why should I care for your game history? Its a fact that people got spoilt when it comes to gaming. Every game rewards you for everything. You dont have to fear any consequences if you die. And this game simply adds a consequence. You as a long time player should know that... Besides that, did I every said that I meant especially YOU with the "these days" sentence? No need to feel offended.....

[Inma]

If its true you can get all stuff ingame for free through gameplay, then I think its only fair that they explain it when you start up the game for the first time, and perhaps how to go about it. Because I was greatly uncertain about this.

Still am alittle skeptic thats the case..

[Tsukinoki]

If its true you can get all stuff ingame for free through gameplay, then I think its only fair that they explain it when you start up the game for the first time, and perhaps how to go about it. Because I was greatly uncertain about this.

Still am alittle skeptic thats the case..

The only things that you cant get for credits are:

Weapon slots

Warframe slots

Colour pickers

Credit/Affinity boosters (But in what games are these available for just in game credits?)

You can use the 50 plat you start with to get weapon and warframe slots. To get anything else you need to buy it directly with credits, or buy the blue-print for it, which is at the end of the market section for those items, and then build it. To supercharge it you just need to do alerts with [?] as a reward and hope for a Reactor or Catalyst bp.

[Hezekiah]

Its free, the basic gameplay and graphics and team ups and levels and bosses are all free. Shell out a few bucks and quit whining about stuff you don't have.

The prices are fair and sure an upgrade/catalyst costs a buck, but guess what....the rest of the game is free.

[Tsukinoki]

The prices are fair and sure an upgrade/catalyst costs a buck, but guess what....the rest of the game is free.

If you start doing alert missions you can get BPs for these as well meaning that you dont even need to spend any money to supercharge if you're willing to take the time and do alerts.