Excalibur 2.0 - We Are Almost There!

[r0ckwolf]

Seriously tho', no one is suggesting rocket science for Excal's mechanics, just something to make his whole kit worthwhile.

agreed! I really do believe that my and most of the other suggestions here are very intuitive and fitting for the Frame and his Theme, it´s very suprising that some people, DE included, have such a hard time with it...

[MDRLOz]

 

Updated Main Post with a review on Surging Dash + Ideas for a passive and some Stat addjustments, be sure to check it out before you comment! ^^

 

 

agreed! I really do believe that my and most of the other suggestions here are very intuitive and fitting for the Frame and his Theme, it´s very suprising that some people, DE included, have such a hard time with it...

 

I like that change. So the MoD becomes as the name suggests an augment of the existing function of the ability. Currently is more like an "addition" mod. Making the base mod give 1 to the combo counter and the MoD be the way to increase that is really interesting. I like it. 

 

I would say that most of the suggestions in this thread are simple and good changes. No one is asking for Excalibur to become the best frame in the game and most of the things people want are a bit of utility and game style changes. All we can do is keep the hope alive and one day it might get considered. 

[RahuHordika]

And I am bringing this back up (specially with that one lther, rather ridiculous, thread around).

Pretty much what the poster above me said it's true, we don't want Excal to be the best, we want him to be useful, to shine. And definitely NOT bringing him back to being just a one-trick pony, unlike the several of the folk just want BlindSpam back.

[SteelSoldier]

I think it would be pretty neat if Super Jump was changed to something like this:

 

It´s something that would affect you for 3-4 seconds, it gives you a bit of extra sprint speed, and before that time ends, you have 2 choices, you can either perform a Super Jump by jumping or Super Slide by Sliding, both do the current things that that the super jump do, with invisibility and the crowd control before leaving the ground.

[r0ckwolf]

I think it would be pretty neat if Super Jump was changed to something like this:

 

It´s something that would affect you for 3-4 seconds, it gives you a bit of extra sprint speed, and before that time ends, you have 2 choices, you can either perform a Super Jump by jumping or Super Slide by Sliding, both do the current things that that the super jump do, with invisibility and the crowd control before leaving the ground.

I wonder if you have read most of what was suggested here, since there are honestly some better solutions. Without wanting to rant at you, i don´t think that is a good idea at all. With that suggestions we would have an unnecessary timer that delays the powers action and does 2 things we already can do without it just fine, but worse for the most part. 

[RahuHordika]

I just wish to make a reminder for those who wish to make Excal's abilities into something incredibly amazing or different.

Excal is a starter frame, while his abilities should indeed be always useful, he's supposed to be simple and easy to understand for new players.

[SteelSoldier]

The question is, should the third ability be an ability that gives the excalibur some form of mobility,damage or utility skill?

[FoxFX]

So after the release of Mesa and the 2nd wave of Augments. I have been at thought about how we can make Excalibur's Augments mean something to him. With Mesa having passives that improve the primaries/secondaries she uses, I thought about doing something similar. I know that [DE] has mentioned doing such a thing in the near future, but I'd like to make my suggestions about that:

 

Change in Slash Dash

 

I feel the idea of the "First Ability being a dash through attack" is a bit of a mainstream already. Rhino has something similar to that and so does Zephyr but she can just fly around with that (and Hydroid has an ability that goes through enemies like that too).

 

So I suggest the following change to Slash Dash:

 

1) Change it from being a dash through attack to a "Slash Dash allows Excalibur to quickly move to the targeted enemy and strikes the enemy with a heavy slash attack and temporarily stuns that enemy."

 

2) The dashing animation for this attack will have to be extremely fast and show very little delay.

 

3) Pressing the skill again will allow Excalibur to dash to a different nearby enemy with little delay.

 

4) Slash Dash gains damage based on the Melee Combo Counter.

 

5) The Damage of Slash Dash is scaled with Strength Mods. The range at which Excalibur can dash to an enemy is affected by Range Mods.

 

So what this would make Excalibur feel like he has some reason to use that Surging Dash Augment Mod as well as make him able to move from one enemy to the next with melee allowing him to keep that Melee Combo Counter going while also giving him some mobility. It also gives some incentive for players to use Furious Javelin which will not only stun the enemy but also gives Excalibur that additional melee damage and traverse capabilities.

 

Excalibur Passives

 

Much like How Mesa has passives, here are some suggestions as to make not only Excalibur balanced enough to fight with his primaries/secondaries, but to also give him the reason why he is called "Excalibur."

 

Excalibur gains these Passive buffs when switching to Melee Mode:

 

+1% critical chance per Melee Combo Counter

+0.1 critical damage per Melee Combo Counter

+10% attack speed

+5 Energy for each enemy killed with melee attacks

+100% Finisher Damage

+200% Reflected damage back at attacker while Blocking

+30% damage when wielding Swords, Glaive, or Nikana

 

 

So what I thought out was to give Excalibur a reason to go Sword Alone with these passives (as well as give some players a feeling of being Hayden Tenno with a Glaive). I need your opinion on all this as well as my thoughts on the change to Slash Dash I suggested.

Edited December 17, 2014 by FoxFX

[SteelSoldier]

Well I had a suggestion for an augment in another thread, it might be an opportunity to actually make it a reality and perhaps a replacement for the First or the third ability of Excalibur:

 

[r0ckwolf]

So ....

-snip-

...So what I thought out was to give Excalibur a reason to go Sword Alone with these passives (as well as give some players a feeling of being Hayden Tenno with a Glaive). I need your opinion on all this as well as my thoughts on the change to Slash Dash I suggested.

Well your idea for Slash Dash sounds cool on it´s own, definetly would want to see that on a new Frame. I don´t wanna see Slash Dash being removed though, the Ability has this classic eastern flare to it which i really like, you are right that many other Frames (now) have simmilar Abilities but those Variations all have some unique effect or utility to it, so that´s really whatneeds to ahppen with Slash Dash. It needs to be brought on the same level as it´s successors, taht´s also theidea behind my suggestion in OP.

 

Your passives are a bit over the top, the damage scalling would be insane with that, i like the ideas though, just the numbers are to much. My main problem however with Melee is something else entirely though: Blocking. The damage is mostly fine, even in high levels, the problem is just survivability. It´s always safer to just shoot from a distance.... :/ 

Blocking could remedy the problem, but the stamina drain, which scales with enemy damage makes it impossible to block after lvl ~25 Enemys. This is really sad, since it´s already a skill based mechanic that is much more dangerous to pull off then hiding in cover! If they would just eliminate this issue, melee would already and instantly become MUCH better!

[r0ckwolf]

Well I had a suggestion for an augment in another thread, it might be an opportunity to actually make it a reality and perhaps a replacement for the First or the third ability of Excalibur:

 

 

 

Can i use that as an example for the Main post bro :D Awesome job!

[SteelSoldier]

Do it bro

[FoxFX]

Well your idea for Slash Dash sounds cool on it´s own, definetly would want to see that on a new Frame. I don´t wanna see Slash Dash being removed though, the Ability has this classic eastern flare to it which i really like, you are right that many other Frames (now) have simmilar Abilities but those Variations all have some unique effect or utility to it, so that´s really whatneeds to ahppen with Slash Dash. It needs to be brought on the same level as it´s successors, taht´s also theidea behind my suggestion in OP.

 

Your passives are a bit over the top, the damage scalling would be insane with that, i like the ideas though, just the numbers are to much. My main problem however with Melee is something else entirely though: Blocking. The damage is mostly fine, even in high levels, the problem is just survivability. It´s always safer to just shoot from a distance.... :/ 

Blocking could remedy the problem, but the stamina drain, which scales with enemy damage makes it impossible to block after lvl ~25 Enemys. This is really sad, since it´s already a skill based mechanic that is much more dangerous to pull off then hiding in cover! If they would just eliminate this issue, melee would already and instantly become MUCH better!

 

I was not actually suggesting the removal of Slash Dash, more of a change to it.

 

The passive yes might seem a bit over the top especially with the damage one, but I feel that one of the main issues when it comes to Blocking is the Reflection mod. I mean, the damage you reflect as opposed to the amount of damage the enemy would be shooting you with seems way out of proportion. If there is a change you would like to have with the Passives of Excalibur, which would you think would fit him best with in mind of the Augments [DE] has given him?

 

Gonna write a thread about the suggestions on Slash Dash change and passives to see what others can come up with.

Edited December 18, 2014 by FoxFX

[r0ckwolf]

I was not actually suggesting the removal of Slash Dash, more of a change to it.

 

The passive yes might seem a bit over the top especially with the damage one, but I feel that one of the main issues when it comes to Blocking is the Reflection mod. I mean, the damage you reflect as opposed to the amount of damage the enemy would be shooting you with seems way out of proportion. If there is a change you would like to have with the Passives of Excalibur, which would you think would fit him best with in mind of the Augments [DE] has given him?

 

Gonna write a thread about the suggestions on Slash Dash change and passives to see what others can come up with.

Your Slash Dash change is quiet a dratic one, not bad, just drastic!^^ 

 

The issue with reflecting damage is directly tied to what i already said about blocking, the stamina drain just scales so fast and high that it makes it impossible to block after a certain lvl (~25 in myexperience), as a result you obviously can´t reflect any damage anymore, since you´re unable to block. Additionaly the damage the enemys deal is actually not that much compared to their effective health, so you would have to increase it by a 1000% to make it kill then or change the calculation entirely.

 

Regarding the Passives:

 

+1% critical chance per Melee Combo Counter

+0.1 critical damage per Melee Combo Counter

\** This i like quiet a lot, it would even make sense to let it effect the Abilitys as well, a critical Hit with Slash Dash would sure be cool!

 

+10% attack speed

\** This doesn´t make much sense to me as a passive, especcialy since some weapons and combos require carefull attack speed management, which make it sometime undesireable to have more of it!

 

+5 Energy for each enemy killed with melee attacks

\** Would be cool as a Mod, overpowered as a passive though i think. 

 

+100% Finisher Damage

\** This is great, especially combined with my Super Charge suggestion.

 

+200% Reflected damage back at attacker while Blocking

\** Doesn´t make sense until they fix the scaling Stamina drain from blocking!

 

+30% damage when wielding Swords, Glaive, or Nikana

\** Love it!^^

 

Maybe just the critical chance and  +30% damage on Swords would be enough as a passive, since those are already quiet powerfull passive buffs. The rest are cool ideas but the combiantion is too much of a buff overall and some, as i explained above, don´t really make sense for Excalibur.^^

 

Nice Suggestions Bro, good to see someone else looking out for Excalibro as well. ;)

Edited December 18, 2014 by r0ckwolf

[Kuboy]

agreed! I really do believe that my and most of the other suggestions here are very intuitive and fitting for the Frame and his Theme, it´s very suprising that some people, DE included, have such a hard time with it...

This and shameless bump

[MotherofHermes]

I just wish to make a reminder for those who wish to make Excal's abilities into something incredibly amazing or different.

Excal is a starter frame, while his abilities should indeed be always useful, he's supposed to be simple and easy to understand for new players.

While Excal is a "starter frame" he is obviously supposed to be a melee free. I mean. he's named after a LEGENDARY SWORD. Loki was on the starter list for awhile. most people playing warframe are fast on the pickup and don't need their hands held. Besides, powers are accessed slowly now with the way the level up system works. 

 

Edit: btw, how have i not upvoted this thread yet? this thread is awesome. 

Edited December 19, 2014 by milesthefox

[RahuHordika]

While Excal is a "starter frame" he is obviously supposed to be a melee free. I mean. he's named after a LEGENDARY SWORD. Loki was on the starter list for awhile. most people playing warframe are fast on the pickup and don't need their hands held. Besides, powers are accessed slowly now with the way the level up system works. 

 

Edit: btw, how have i not upvoted this thread yet? this thread is awesome.

What I mean is that some people might want to replace or modify his powers with something more complex in it's use, when they should be farily straightforward and serve as introduction to the 1 2 3 4 power system of warframe.

Altough, again, this should by no means prevent all of Excal's powers from being awesome and usable on their own.

[r0ckwolf]

While Excal is a "starter frame" he is obviously supposed to be a melee free. I mean. he's named after a LEGENDARY SWORD. Loki was on the starter list for awhile. most people playing warframe are fast on the pickup and don't need their hands held. Besides, powers are accessed slowly now with the way the level up system works. 

 

Edit: btw, how have i not upvoted this thread yet? this thread is awesome. 

glad to see you like what you read!^^ It´s really a community effort. Most of my listed suggestions are gathered through all the input that i found in here!

 

Regarding your feedback, i have to agree. I stated the same thing multiple times already: Being a starter Frame is no argument at all, for any Frame to not have a viable Powerset. Since the Warframes are basically classes, they all (should) have specific roles, regardless if you´re playing alone or in a squad.

For some Frames these Roles are quiet easy to see and very well done. Oberon and Frost for example are exellent when it comes to standing your Ground, while Nova or Mirage are exceptionall Glascannons, that can annihilate everything as long as they´re not being targeted.

 

Shamefully there are still quiet a few Frames which with it is either unclear what their role is supposed to be or the their role is so badly realized that they cannot fulfill it. Mag and Ember are examples where you can imagine what they are suppposed to do in a squad, but they just can´t do it well enough and there are lots of Frames who do the same thing but better.

 

With Excalibur you can´t even really tell at the moment. He is a little bit a Jack of all Trades, but in this case, far from a Master of anything...

Since his description in game always advertised Excalibur as a Melee based Frame, a large portion of the Community wanted to see this aspect realized with him, especcially since a lot of his Powers are showing that they have not aged well. 

 

A Melee Class has a very clear and fun purpose in a Squad. Charge in and disrupt the enemys in their approach! Excalibur already has Slash Dash and Radial Blind who make perfect tools for that, they just need to be adjusted a bit. Super Jump is pointless and would need to be replaced with something else that enhaces the Melee aspect and Radial Javelin simply needs some Utility or a massive damage Buff.

 

I think i started rambling.... it´s late... should go to sleep!^^

[Lagomorf]

 

Shamefully there are still quiet a few Frames which with it is either unclear what their role is supposed to be or the their role is so badly realized that they cannot fulfill it. Mag and Ember are examples where you can imagine what they are suppposed to do in a squad, but they just can´t do it well enough and there are lots of Frames who do the same thing but better.

 

I can't agree whith you at this point. Mag has the best level-scaling damage skill, that also protects nearby allies and could make a strong shield for Mag whith new augment. Ember became barely usefull after changing Overheat to Accelerate, and well, it was very simmiliar to how DE took away Excalibur's Radial Blind. Unfortunately, DE have a bad habbit of forgeting their old flaws and just going further.

I hope they will somewhen listun to us more, at least because we, the players obviously want the game to become better, and who else could know the game deeper than we?

[FoxFX]

Your Slash Dash change is quiet a dratic one, not bad, just drastic!^^ 

 

The issue with reflecting damage is directly tied to what i already said about blocking, the stamina drain just scales so fast and high that it makes it impossible to block after a certain lvl (~25 in myexperience), as a result you obviously can´t reflect any damage anymore, since you´re unable to block. Additionaly the damage the enemys deal is actually not that much compared to their effective health, so you would have to increase it by a 1000% to make it kill then or change the calculation entirely.

 

Regarding the Passives:

 

+1% critical chance per Melee Combo Counter

+0.1 critical damage per Melee Combo Counter

\** This i like quiet a lot, it would even make sense to let it effect the Abilitys as well, a critical Hit with Slash Dash would sure be cool!

 

+10% attack speed

\** This doesn´t make much sense to me as a passive, especcialy since some weapons and combos require carefull attack speed management, which make it sometime undesireable to have more of it!

 

+5 Energy for each enemy killed with melee attacks

\** Would be cool as a Mod, overpowered as a passive though i think. 

 

+100% Finisher Damage

\** This is great, especially combined with my Super Charge suggestion.

 

+200% Reflected damage back at attacker while Blocking

\** Doesn´t make sense until they fix the scaling Stamina drain from blocking!

 

+30% damage when wielding Swords, Glaive, or Nikana

\** Love it!^^

 

Maybe just the critical chance and  +30% damage on Swords would be enough as a passive, since those are already quiet powerfull passive buffs. The rest are cool ideas but the combiantion is too much of a buff overall and some, as i explained above, don´t really make sense for Excalibur.^^

 

Nice Suggestions Bro, good to see someone else looking out for Excalibro as well. ;)

 

I've made some changes to the passives I suggested in a Thread I made in Warframe & Abilities Forum. Here is a link to the site: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/368679-excalibur-changes-to-slash-dash-and-passives-based-on-augments/#entry4084327

[FitzSimmons]

excalibur is godly solo warframe, what else you need? 

[r0ckwolf]

I can't agree whith you at this point. Mag has the best level-scaling damage skill, that also protects nearby allies and could make a strong shield for Mag whith new augment. Ember became barely usefull after changing Overheat to Accelerate, and well, it was very simmiliar to how DE took away Excalibur's Radial Blind. Unfortunately, DE have a bad habbit of forgeting their old flaws and just going further.

I hope they will somewhen listun to us more, at least because we, the players obviously want the game to become better, and who else could know the game deeper than we?

Admitted Shield Polarize does scale impressively, but she shares the same issue Excalibur had before the RB nerf, 1 good Skill doesn´t justify 3 bad ones. Additonaly even with Shield Polarize i don´t know what her role is supposed to be, other then being an anti corpus powerhouse in lategame.

 

excalibur is godly solo warframe, what else you need? 

First of all, could you explain why you think that, cuz i don´t think he´s any better solo then any other Frame and far worse then some. Secondly i think i explained pretty well "what i need" over the last 16 pages of extensive discussions! Have you read them??

[FoxFX]

made some changes to the passives I suggested with my thread here @: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/368679-excalibur-changes-to-slash-dash-and-passives-based-on-augments/#entry4084327

 

+1% critical chance per Melee Combo Counter (caps @ 30 Counters)

+0.1 critical damage per Melee Combo Counter (caps @ 30 counters)

+100% Finisher Damage

+30% damage when wielding Swords, Glaive, or Nikana

-50% Stamina cost when attacking and blocking with Swords, Glaive, or Nikana

 

also another player added a suggestion about the Slash Dash change I thought up:

 

Slash Dash can hitting enemies in the way for 50% of the damage with proposed changes.

 

About Radial Blind, I feel it is best to use this at melee range since it is more effective when the enemy notices the Excalibur.

 

About Super Jump...I had an idea of being a skill where Excalibur can bring nearby enemies up in the air with Super Jump and allowing Excalibur to do air melee combos in mid air as a Augment called Ascension but there is more I need to think about it.

[RahuHordika]

Admitted Shield Polarize does scale impressively, but she shares the same issue Excalibur had before the RB nerf, 1 good Skill doesn´t justify 3 bad ones. Additonaly even with Shield Polarize i don´t know what her role is supposed to be, other then being an anti corpus powerhouse in lategame.

Funny thing is, while Mag's other abilities are not that great, they're at least usable. Right now Excal is in a point he's only good as a nuker with some serious modding, and even then falls off to those than can actually kill (I still think RJ should ragdoll enemies rather than stun them to be honest). I cannot help but feel dissapointed at those who only want Excal to be Blindspam only once more, and let's not talk about the flawless logic of some individuals that want him to stop spamming a power by making him spam another.

This should be a thing for all the warframes, but Excalibur is both the poster boy and a starter frame. I feel he should be amongst the priorities in order to make all of his abilities useful (and I mean in general use, rather than the situational or sometimes trivial examples some people defending their current/former state have brough up).

[Kuboy]

Just hit me. If starters like Excalibur because he's good, then they won't buy new frames