Excalibur 2.0 - We Are Almost There!

[r0ckwolf]

4/3/15 reworked main post to fit the current development process of Excalibur; removed my "Super Charge" suggestion in favor of "Tenno Kenshi" (even though i loved Super Charge i just think this Ability would fit Xcal perfectly)

 

note*: descriptions for the Abilitys will follow to clarify my intentions with the changes!

[r0ckwolf]

The one thing I REALLY DONT WANT TO SEE, is that excal gets an ability with a forced weapon of choice, I doooooooont want another valkyr, I want excal and valkyr to both be awesome melee frames but that are distinct from each other, I only use valkyr and excal and I don't want them feeling the same, so no, I wouldn't wanna see an ethereal or whatever skana as a weapon to use, I wanna use my dual swords, I wanna use my redeemer, I wanna use my Dakar prime with an ability to boost

You could still use your regular melee weapon, i would still do it too, don´t see the reason why this would be an issue...

[r0ckwolf]

Agreed. If Super Jump's is replaced, I'm fine with it being a buff ability which grants those energy waves thingies for ANY melee weapon, not just for one forced non-varied weapon, Valkyr is bad enough with that already. Variety is the spice of life after all, and it is kind of the selling point of Warframe too.

The bad thing about Valkyr is that you are duration locked once you casted hysteria, with my version for Excalibur you can toggle out of the mode whenever you please, this isn´t any different from just unequipping your melee, so i really don´t see an issue here.

[Malitias]

I want it. I really, really want it. Those suggestions are awesome.

The only thing I would change though is to how you choose how long you want to dash.

Imo it would be more intuitive to have you hold the 1-button to start dashing and release it once you want to stop.

Tapping it would result in immediately performing the slash without the dash.

Just how I would do it.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Malitias

[(PSN)arod1alx7]

The bad thing about Valkyr is that you are duration locked once you casted hysteria, with my version for Excalibur you can toggle out of the mode whenever you please, this isn´t any different from just unequipping your melee, so i really don´t see an issue here.

I don't want a forced melee weapon at all with Excalibur, what you're saying is that if I want to melee better with the passive ability, I have to get stuck with that E-Skana in general, for the boost and that isn't what I think should be done with Excal, I want the boost to my melee weapon OF CHOICE. So anytime I wanna use the passive and I wanna use my swirling tiger combo attacks with my Dex Dakra, I can.

This is my opinion https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/432594-excalibur-excalibur-yet-again-my-good-sirs/ I think this would work better

[Malitias]

I don't want a forced melee weapon at all with Excalibur, what you're saying is that if I want to melee better with the passive ability, I have to get stuck with that E-Skana in general, for the boost and that isn't what I think should be done with Excal, I want the boost to my melee weapon OF CHOICE. So anytime I wanna use the passive and I wanna use my swirling tiger combo attacks with my Dex Dakra, I can.

This is my opinion https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/432594-excalibur-excalibur-yet-again-my-good-sirs/ I think this would work better

I prefer the ability suggestions in OP.

While your suggestion isn't bad, I think the one here would suit Excal alot better. Him being named after a freakin sword, y'know.

As I said, your ability suggestion isn't bad, it should be on a different frame. There is another frame, who currently has a melee buff and needs a rework/fix who would be a good candiate for this.

[r0ckwolf]

I don't want a forced melee weapon at all with Excalibur, what you're saying is that if I want to melee better with the passive ability, I have to get stuck with that E-Skana in general, for the boost and that isn't what I think should be done with Excal, I want the boost to my melee weapon OF CHOICE. So anytime I wanna use the passive and I wanna use my swirling tiger combo attacks with my Dex Dakra, I can.

This is my opinion https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/432594-excalibur-excalibur-yet-again-my-good-sirs/ I think this would work better

I get it! I used to promoted a purely passive Ability for a new 3 as well and it´s definetly an option. I respect your opinion towards this, but after a whole lot of thought i truely believe this is the more interesting and fun to play Ability to go with! I promoted both iterations for a while, but from the responses i got and to avoid confusion i decided to stick with this one!

[(PSN)arod1alx7]

I'd say basically there are 2 melee frames, Excalibur, and valkyr, I just want them both to have survivability, both to have different abilities, and different styles valkyr immortal, team melee speed and 50% armor increase, but doesn't drop as much damage but don't worry about death, with a forced melee weapon, excal, drops more damage with a buff that isn't for the team and he isn't immortal but melee battling improves his survivability, highly dependent on that melee counter, that has no forced melee weapon, that's how I think they should be, different and respectable in the melee class of frames

[Malitias]

As I said, I think Excalibur should be resembling his sword-theme.

In my opinion it's Valkyr who should be free to use any weapon in her 4 and not switch to those terrifying fingernails. Her theme is mainly being some psycho and should attack with anything you place in her hands.

But this is getting off-topic.

 

Excalibur is even by name a sword themed frame and should therefore use one.

[MEsoJD]

 I'm so glad the community is not letting up on this situation.

[AlphaHorseman]

Well this looks nice, +1 OP.

[a-Arcadia]

I do not think the change to RB would work, finishers take too much time, other than that its pretty similar to something i had suggested I think 3 is taking too little energy idk

[r0ckwolf]

I do not think the change to RB would work, finishers take too much time, other than that its pretty similar to something i had suggested I think 3 is taking too little energy idk

it´s just a way to complement his melee playstyle logically, since he deosn´t ahve another tool to set up finishers and putting it on Rb makes sense, you wouldn´t have to use it obviously, so i don´t see an issue.

The energy drain is just an placeholder number, i tried to pick something that made sense, but it´s impossible to tell wihtout playtesting it!

[a-Arcadia]

it´s just a way to complement his melee playstyle logically, since he deosn´t ahve another tool to set up finishers and putting it on Rb makes sense, you wouldn´t have to use it obviously, so i don´t see an issue.

The energy drain is just an placeholder number, i tried to pick something that made sense, but it´s impossible to tell wihtout playtesting it!

the issue is that meleeng is even slower with it i like melee but doing a finisher move will tae away a big chunk of your rb duration. And i think therefore it is contradictory

[Malitias]

the issue is that meleeng is even slower with it i like melee but doing a finisher move will tae away a big chunk of your rb duration. And i think therefore it is contradictory

That depends on your attack speed. And as a finisher deals "finisher" damage, ignoring armor, it is a great way to deal with those aggravating heavy gunners.

 

Edit: at least on high levels it would be an awesome thing. (50+ and those things are almost immune to anything)

Edited April 3, 2015 by Malitias

[(XBOX)BAMMM Lightning]

That depends on your attack speed. And as a finisher deals "finisher" damage, ignoring armor, it is a great way to deal with those aggravating heavy gunners.

 

Edit: at least on high levels it would be an awesome thing. (50+ and those things are almost immune to anything)

 

^yes I agree.

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

Hi,

let me start by saying that i always loved Excalibur, i remember seeing the closed Alpha Trailer for Warframe, where it was him chopping down a bunch of Grineer in Ninja fashion, that is what made me start playing Warframe.^^ Unfortunately at the moment the only reason i keep playing Excalibur is because i like him aesthetically, but his Skill set is just unbelievably underwhelming.

 

I strongly feel that every Frame, should be powerfull and unique in it´s own right and have his own niche inbetween all of them. Sadly that is not the case with many Warframes, even more sadly it´s especially not the case with Excalibur. 

 

This Thread has been around for quiet some time now and it´s clear goal was always to discuss Excaliburs role and usefullness in Warframe and in a Squad. I do hope that it´s gonna stay alive until we all unanimously agree that Excalibur is an exciting and strong Warframe to play!^^

 

 

 

These are my suggested adjustments, they aim for making Excalibur a viable choice in more situations and increasing his effectivness in higher levels. They are centered around the concept of Excalibur being an Melee focused Frame that features strong Sword attacks, kind of like an counterpart to Ash. With Ash being an Stealth focused Ninja Themed Warframe and Excalibur being more like an open combat focused "Samurai" Warrior of sorts!

 

Excalibur:

Slash Dash:

Slash Dash as a concept is an awesome ability, a combination of damage and mobility that can be used to initiate or escape, while fitting the theme of Warframe perfectly. It unfortunately falls of in damage extremely fast and is a bit clunky sometimes when you need to be percise with it. You get stuck on terrain or at an enemy while dashing or you overshoot your distance by a dozen meters when you just wanted to close the gap to that 1 Grineer.

It´s one of the few Abilitys that is very fun to use in quick sucession, since it kind of embodies an "hit and run" playstyle, so an passive damage buff that rewards a combination with melee or quick succesive dashs would be the best way to go.

Also a way to premturely end the dash with an melee strike would help a lot in making the ability an better more precise tool to work with in melee combat.

 

• Now deals a Forced Bleed proc. 
• Deals multiplied damage based on the Combo Hit multiplier!
• Animation can be prematurely cancelled by pressing the E Button. ( Excalibur performs a quick melee attack with his Energy Skana to end Slash Dash)

 

Radial Blind:

Radial Blind works very well for close ranged melee combat at the moment there is only 1 thing i really would add:

 

During the intial Stun phase of the Blind enemys are open for Finishers.

 

Super Jump:

Changed to "Tenno Kenshi":

Excalibur uses his "unique" Energy Sword (that he already uses for RB and RJ) as his own personal Melee Weapon to cut down his prey.

• Toggable Ability, inital casting cost of 20 Energy; drains 1 Energy/s.

   

• When toggled on, Excalibur equips his Energy Sword to fight with. This Sword uses a unique Stance with unique animations. It´s damage is calculated simmilar to Valkyrs hysteria (set base dmg + x% of melee weapon damage).

   

• When channeld the energy sword shoots energy waves in the direction of the strike, which share the damage and all properties of the orginall strike.

   

• The energy waves have limited range, but "punch through" everything until their range threshold is reached.

   

   

  

  Now wouldn´t we all like to see this! ;) Thx to SteelSoldier for the Gif! 

 

Super Jump is becoming increasingly obsolete with new movement additions. It was always a highly situational Ability, that even when the situation alloed it had the major downside of completely disarming you. Air directional Melee Attacks do everything Super Jump does but better and for free. Time to make room for something new, don´t you think! 

 

"Tenno Kenshi" would offer an Ability that fits better mechanically and thematically to complement Excaliburs Skill Set and Playstyle. Now all of his 4 Abilitys would involve his Energy Skana and he really would have an insentive to go into melee range, which is where his other Abilitys are most effective as well. Aside from being incredibly cool the  Energy Waves shot from the Blade also offer great Utility, since they hit a much larger Area than usuall with melee attacks.

 

 

Radial Javelin:

Radial Javelin is aparently a real headscratcher for DE, since it has seen so many different iterattions that it gets hard to keep track.

For me it was always a simple Ability, it´s Excaliburs Panic Button of sorts! When you are getting swarmed by a big group and it´s time to make a run for it or when you need to clean up a bunch of little guys so you can focus on the big ones, using Radial Javelin is the way to go.

The current iteration really doesn´t reflect these scenarios anymore, since it´s an simple AoE Nuke that feels way to simmilar to other Warframes Ultimates. The previous Version did a much better job in complementing Excaliburs Ability Set, since it rewarded being in the mid of a clustered group much more. It simply had a couple of issues, that could have easily beeen fixed though.

 

First and foremost it offered no utility at all, everything that didn´t die just kept shooting at you uninterupted, for something that needs to be used in close range this is a horrible flaw since it can easily result in your death!

Secondly the damage was really underwhelming. An Ability that has a limited number of targets and puts yourself in danger should at least be powerfull enough to make up for those downsides. 

And last but not least: Punch Through!!! I´m really fine with most of the Line of Sight changes, i don´t need to hit everything 3 rooms ahaead that i can´t see yet with my abilities, but it´s really frustrating when a simple crate or shield completely blocks your most powerfull Ability, especially since it´s already limited by your postion and a unit cap!

 

So this is what i would do:

• Restored Radial Javelin to it´s former Version, in which the Javelins are spawned from Excalibur himself in a 360° arc.

• Now deals 1000 Finisher Damage, instead of 3x333 Physical Damage.
• Javelins now have innate Punch Through.
• Enemys hit are ragdolled away from Excalibur instead of being stunned.

   

 

 

Passives and Stat tweaks:

Building upon the my suggested Ideas/Buffs a passive i would like to see a lot is:

 

Excaliburs Melee Hit Counter remains x% (~100-150 sounds good to me) longer then normal!

 

All of Excaliburs Abiltiys kind of force him to be in the middle of the Fight especially after the LoS change for Radial Blind, dissapointigly Excaliburs Base Stats do not reflect this at all and are more simmilar to those of a lot of the Casters in the game, forcing you to heavily Mod for Surivability, which takes away a lot of the flexiblity he should have when it comes to modding. So to fix that, these are my suggested,

 

Stat Tweaks:

• increased Base Health and Shields to 120.
• increased Base Armor to 100
• increased Base Movespeed to 1.1
• increased Base Stamina to 150

   

 

 

A melee focused Class definetly needs some above average survivability to be able to charge into battle, this is where Excalibur currently lacks the most.

The Speed and Stamina buff allow for better Melee engagements and survivability through blocking damage with your melee weapon and avoiding it through quick and good movement.

 

Surging Dash:

As of Update 15.6 we have access to a new Augment for Excalibur, which does something we all requested for a long time, as can be seen here in this Thread. It increases the Melee Hit Counter for each Enemy hit by 1/2/3/4. This is kinnda a two edged sword in my opinion, first of all it´s great that this is finally recockgnized and integrated in some way and the idea of an augment that adds more then 1 to the meele counter per enemy hit is something i do like a lot.

 

BUT, it is a big slap in the face for all of us who suggested this change that it´s released exclusively as an augment! As stated thousands of times throughout the Forums, this effect is something the Ability should already do on it´s own (including a forced/high chance bleed proc), it´s very dissapointing that something that should be considered as a basic attribute of the Ability is released exclusively as an Augment, this way the undewhelming aspect of the Abiltiy is not fixed and it remains unusable on it´s own.

 

So my suggestion is simple: Without the augment, Slash Dash does what is suggested below, increase the melee hit counter by +1 per enemy hit and a forced bleed proc and (this is important) is affected by the Melee Hit Counter the same way Bladestorm is, so that it´s damage is increased depending on it.

Now the Augment does not have to be taken out, it´s simply an increase for these values, so when you equip Surging Dash the Melee Hit Counter is increased by +2/3/4/5 per Enemy Hit instead of +1, this way the Ability gets it´s much needed buff and becomes very viable on it´s own, while the Augment adds to that in a way very cool and powerfull way!

 

 

 

You may ask: "WUT?!?!", Don´t you dare touch my Super Jump, i love it and it´s usefulblablablabla!" Well....

I AGREE!!!^^

 

And this is my proposal: 

I always felt that Super Jump is extermely usefull and fits the theme of having a powerfull ninja-sci-fi exoskeleton very well, but it´s also insanely situational and overshadowed by pretty much every other power in the game. It would, in my humble opinion, make a lot of sense to incorporate Super Jump into the basic move set of all Warframes by simply holding the Jump Key and charging up your Jump by doing that! 

Ofcourse it still needs to cost energy and maybe some stamina as well, to prevent infinite spamming and not making wallruns and parkour obsolete, but it would fit well with every Warframe and would be a great addition to the mobility-movement pool.

Superjump has already been incorporated. It's called directional melee. Try it out. Most weapons overshadow it.

[MichaelSD]

Good suggestions.

It is not difficult to improve this mess what is called Excalibur at the moment.

[r0ckwolf]

Superjump has already been incorporated. It's called directional melee. Try it out. Most weapons overshadow it.

If you had read my thread completely, you would know that I am saying exactly that....

[WolvenEdge]

Personally, the main problem I have with Excalibur at higher levels (I main Excalibur, no other frame has quite that feel. ^w^) is that Slash Dash is so easily STOPPED. In earlier levels it was a lovely way to escape a crowd, I could give it a tap and be in a better position. Higher levels, something happened... I realized that in order to slash through my opponents and actually get the mobility that is one of the move's main features, I actually have to kill them with the ability.

 

That sucked. Now any two enemies that are strong enough that I don't kill them (above level ten or fifteen, or a higher-armored unit) can stop my attempted escape or reposition dead in the water, and leave me staring helplessly at the business ends of their guns... which thanks to Excal's baseline stats actually hurt. A lot. (The bigger they are, the harder they.... hit me, actually. Ow. My spleen does not appreciate what just happened...)

 

The other changes you suggest I can stand behind quite a bit, Excal is a sword themed frame with a mobility complex, he needs either his melee or his mobility back if not both, not just be stuck as a less-than-reliable one-trick pony of Radial Blinding.

[Thaumatos]

Excalibur doesn't need an 'overhaul'.  He needs a Quality of Life adjustment.

 

Most of his cast-time frames need to be removed so his movement skills can compliment what currently exists instead of hinder it.  I'm thinking about making another thread about this with some details.

 

Being a heavy xcal player myself, I know exactly where his faults are.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Thaumatos

[Reaver_X]

Excalibur doesn't need an 'overhaul'.  He needs a Quality of Life adjustment.

 

Most of his cast-time frames need to be removed so his movement skills can compliment what currently exists instead of hinder it.  I'm thinking about making another thread about this with some details.

 

Being a heavy xcal player myself, I know exactly where his faults are.

 

if you think cast time changes are all excal needs to be better....your crazy.

[Thaumatos]

if you think cast time changes are all excal needs to be better....your crazy.

With the exception of Radial Javelin, which needs to be reverted to pre-15 status with some adjustments, yeah.   Like I said, all he needs are some Quality of Life adjustments at this point.  Cast time is a big one but there are others...I'm going to make a thread I think...

 

DE will probably ignore it, or do the opposite, but I'll make it anyway.

[WolvenEdge]

They already adjusted that in the PC version, most of the idle frames in all of his abilities have been removed. He's still kind of sucky because his mobility abilities are either easily blocked (slash dash) or overshadowed to the point of pointlessness (super jump). As a result, Radial Javelin becomes like a very expensive mini-radialBlind because now you get the time to run past all the high-leveled enemies who are busy trying to pull etherial swords out of their faces.

And that's the real problem; his abilities are either unable to continue their usefullness when enemies get up a ways in level (again; slash dash. If enemies don't die, you don't move past them), overshadowed by other mechanics (directional melee>superJump), nerfed to the point of complete unreliability (radial blind was overpowered, but this wasn't the way to fix it), or completely overshadowed by one of his far cheaper abilities (radial blind>radial javelin). A frame's abilities should each be useable in their own right, not turn into a detriment/waste of energy/overshadowed mess when the going gets tough, else that frame becomes nothing more than the guy/gal holding the gun (or bow in my case). WarFrame is based more off of the more Oriental ideal of becoming the weapon/becoming one with the weapon rather than the more western idea of weapons as empowerment.

 

Edit; spelling.

Edited April 4, 2015 by WolvenEdge

[Reaver_X]

With the exception of Radial Javelin, which needs to be reverted to pre-15 status with some adjustments, yeah.   Like I said, all he needs are some Quality of Life adjustments at this point.  Cast time is a big one but there are others...I'm going to make a thread I think...

 

DE will probably ignore it, or do the opposite, but I'll make it anyway.

 

his slash dash is garbage, superjump is pointless, and yeah his javelin is pretty crap now too. so its more than just javelin. His slash dash needs a reason to justify using in endgame content besides DERP Mobility DERP.