Molecular Prime 2.0 [No Press 4 To Win]

[notionphil]

AKA - balancing Nova without nerfing her

 

Molecular Prime is the most powerful offensive skill in Warframe. That would be fine, if it came with appropriate difficulty of use, risk, cost, or range. The lack of restriction is what makes MP unbalanced.

 

Here's how to fix MP - make it skill based, but even more rewarding to use effectively.

 

Molecular Prime 2.0

 

Shorten MP's duration to 4 seconds, and make explosion damage equal to any dmg dealt to a target (hp/shields) during MP's effect.

 

Any mob hit by an MP explosion is UNPRIMED. That's right, no chaining. You only have one chance to wipe each cluster. But, with 100% damage, you can wipe any cluster if you choose the right target.

 

This makes it critical to focus fire the strongest target in a group, so that a single explosion is powerful enough to destroy the group. MP becomes an even more effective way to shred groups when used skillfully, but a mere dud when used carelessly.

 

This also makes MP as viable at high level as at low level. Cast on a lv 50 mob, deal 20k damage, get a 20k damage explosion. Just make sure you take out the Ancient instead of the crawlers first, or your MP won't chain.

 

MP would be unaffected by duration or power mods.

 

Bonus: Make the explosion damage creditable to whoever dealt the majority of said damage.

 

This keeps MP in line with AM Drop as well, making Nova a highly powerful skill based frame and removes nearly all traces of press 4 to win from her arsenal.

Edited May 14, 2014 by notionphil

[Aggh]

Eh I'd just like it to deal friendly damage to nova regardless of who sets it off.  Spam it all you want, just don't cry if you blow yourself up.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Aggh

[ArchBlood]

Eh I'd just like it to deal friendly damage to nova.  Spam it all you want, just don't cry if you blow yourself up.

I'd take this over the topic.

[Liacu]

Feels way too similar to Antimatter Drop. In general I wished there was more skill to the ults but that isn't how the devs design the game. I'm not really sure what would be the best alternative so I'd just recommend a delayed explosion when enemies die.

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

I like the idea, is like antimatter drop but setting off a chain instead of using a tiny ball of death. But thats the problem it feels too similar to Antimatter drop...

Edited May 14, 2014 by The_Sharp_Demonologist

[notionphil]

Eh I'd just like it to deal friendly damage to nova regardless of who sets it off.  Spam it all you want, just don't cry if you blow yourself up.

 

alright, but that's not a realistic solution unless MP is changed to a cone. You'd simply die every time you used it.

[Aggh]

alright, but that's not a realistic solution unless MP is changed to a cone. You'd simply die every time you used it.

Only if you keep on setting it off in the middle of a group of mobs.  Friendly damage would mean that you'd have to be a bit more careful how you mod and use it.  They could also scale the friendly damage differently to give a bit more leeway too.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Aggh

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

Aggh Isnt the whole point of Molecular Prime to cast it in the middle of a group and detonating them instantly?

[BrotherIcarus]

I feel all that needs to be done is for it to lose its explosion Nova already has the highest damage dealing power in the game giving her a second AoE is redundant.

 

Just a note to everyone, Nova is a glass cannon she will always be powerful.

[notionphil]

Only if you keep on setting it off in the middle of a group of mobs.  Friendly damage would mean that you'd have to be a bit more careful how you mod and use it.  They could also scale the friendly damage differently to give a bit more leeway.

 

If you believe that's the case (which I don't..i still think it would be a deathtrap), wouldn't that mean MP would be used nearly identically to how it is now, we'd just have more evasive nova playstyles?

 

That doesn't really solve the problem in that case. Nova would still wipe the map at sub level 30 content with the click of 4. She'd just have to flip slide away while doing it.

Edited May 14, 2014 by notionphil

[Hunter3.0]

Eh I'd just like it to deal friendly damage to nova regardless of who sets it off.  Spam it all you want, just don't cry if you blow yourself up.

 

Pretty much this.

 

Besides, you know those people who just run into a mission with their 900 forma Soma and their Nova and just won't let you get a single hit at an enemy? That is selfish and not even close to teamwork, which this game is all about. 

[immolator1001]

Friendly damage would just mean I cast it in a closest or above the enemies.

[Aggh]

If you believe that's the case (which I don't..i still think it would be a deathtrap), wouldn't that mean MP would be used nearly identically to how it is now, we'd just have more evasive nova playstyles?

 

That doesn't really solve the problem in that case. Nova would still wipe the map at sub level 30 content with the click of 4. She'd just have to flip slide away while doing it.

Not if she actually wants to kill stuff.  Most players wouldn't be spamming it willy nilly since they don't want to get themselves killed.  They'll have to set it off at a distance and/or try and get clear of mobs, which means they won't be able to use the ability as often or nearly as effectively.

 

 

 

Friendly damage would just mean I cast it in a closest or above the enemies.

Mprime damage goes through walls and deals damage in a sphere around the enemy.  You'll always have to maintain a careful distance.  I find it ironic that no one has mentioned using worm hole to get out of range :|

 

 

Aggh Isnt the whole point of Molecular Prime to cast it in the middle of a group and detonating them instantly?

No, the whole point is to set off a group of enemies in a chain reaction.  Where you are in relation to them doesn't change that.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Aggh

[notionphil]

I like the idea, is like antimatter drop but setting off a chain instead of using a tiny ball of death. But thats the problem it feels too similar to Antimatter drop...

 

Yep it is. But its pretty common for frames powers to be thematic.

 

Sonic Boom, knocks small AoE off feet with soundwave - Sound Quake, knocks AoE radius off feet with soundwave

Shock, small AoE elec damage at range - Overload big AoE elec damage at range

Fireball, medium AoE fire damage at range - World on Fire,  fire damage to a target within range

 

AM Drop, shoot to charge projectile damage in a small AoE - MP, 'quicktime' event where all characters get shoot to charge damage

 

I don't see an issue TBH

[Frigglish]

The Design Council will never let developers fix their baby, and DE will never offend people who gave them a certain amount of money early enough.

It's been this big a problem for this long without the slightest effective nudge downward. I don't see it changing.

[Aggh]

The Design Council will never let developers fix their baby, and DE will never offend people who gave them a certain amount of money early enough. It's been this big a problem for this long without the slightest effective nudge downward. I don't see it changing.

You obviously weren't here when Volt was the most mind blowingly OP frame in the game.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Aggh

[Frostosti]

MP is only OP because all the enemies in this game are ridiculously weak.

If there are missions where enemies are lev50+ or 70+ right when you start the mission, there would be much less complaining about MP

[LukeAura]

Does it work off of strictly total HP or HP at time of priming?
It'd be pretty easy to determine the strongest total hp target of any cluster. Just aim for the heavy. HP at cast/priming would mean that a healthy grunt will cause a bigger explosion on death than a nearly dead heavy.

 

[Frigglish]

You obviously weren't here when Volt was the most mind blowingly OP frame in the game.

I feel like he may predate the Design Council, as a Closed Beta frame, but I wasn't there at the time.

[Aggh]

I feel like he may predate the Design Council, as a Closed Beta frame, but I wasn't there at the time.

DC doesn't change that plenty of people bought him and put time and money into him (since that was the only way to access ults at the time) and they still nerfed him into the ground.  Also, the DC just voted on a warframe theme and name for nova :|

Edited May 14, 2014 by Aggh

[fatpig84]

Remove explosion damage or reduce it to 100 damage.

Increase damage modifiers to 300% to 400% and slow up to 75%.

 

But allow Mprime be affected by Fleeting Expertise and base duration is 30 seconds at a start.

So her MPrime with fleeting will last around 15 seconds tops ?

 

There we have all the utility we need and some balance YEAAAAAAAAAH.

Edited May 14, 2014 by fatpig84

[Kyte]

AKA - balancing Nova without nerfing her

 

Molecular Prime is the most powerful offensive skill in Warframe. That would be fine, if it came with appropriate difficulty of use, risk, cost, or range. The lack of restriction is what makes MP unbalanced.

 

Here's how to fix MP - make it skill based, but even more rewarding to use effectively.

 

Molecular Prime 2.0

 

Shorten MP's duration to 4 seconds, and make explosion damage equal to any dmg dealt to a target during MP's effect.

 

Any mob hit by an MP explosion is UNPRIMED. That's right, no chaining. You only have one chance to wipe each cluster. But, with 100% HP damage, you can wipe a cluster if you choose the right target.

 

This makes it critical to focus fire the strongest target in a group, so that a single explosion is powerful enough to destroy the group. MP becomes an even more effective way to shred groups when used skillfully, but a mere dud when used carelessly.

 

This also makes MP as viable at high level as at low level. Cast on a lv 50 mob, deal 20k damage, get a 20k damage explosion. Just make sure you take out the Ancient instead of the crawlers first, or your MP won't chain.

 

MP would be unaffected by duration or power mods.

 

Bonus: Make the explosion damage creditable to whoever dealt the majority of said damage.

 

This keeps MP in line with AM Drop as well, making Nova a highly powerful skill based frame and removes nearly all traces of press 4 to win from her arsenal.

One of the core gimmicks of MP is chaining. This'd take away that uniqueness.

Moreover, just like every single other ability that requires players take care with their target selection, the "focus fire" bit will be completely wasted because teammates never pay attention to what powers other people cast. This is why Energy Vampire is getting buffed tomorrow and why Mind Control is pretty much useless for its intended use.

[notionphil]

The Design Council will never let developers fix their baby, and DE will never offend people who gave them a certain amount of money early enough. It's been this big a problem for this long without the slightest effective nudge downward. I don't see it changing.

 

The design council is definitely not the cohesive nova supporting group you think we are.

 

Many of the active vet founders are the ones who want Nova balanced the most.

[notionphil]

One of the core gimmicks of MP is chaining. This'd take away that uniqueness.

Moreover, just like every single other ability that requires players take care with their target selection, the "focus fire" bit will be completely wasted because teammates never pay attention to what powers other people cast. This is why Energy Vampire is getting buffed tomorrow and why Mind Control is pretty much useless for its intended use.

 

The signature of MP is blowing up large groups of enemies after dealing damage to them IMO.Chaining is simply an automatic, mindless way of blowing up large groups. I'm suggesting we switch that to a manual method - one big explosion, which if selected well, will still blow up a large group.

 

Players select targets quite well when it benefits them enough, and the effect is clear enough -  EG: Sonar, not mind control.

 

If you know that shooting the 'correct' Primed target will mean you wipe the entire group you're engaging get credit for an AoE explosion, you'll do it.

[notionphil]

Does it work off of strictly total HP or HP at time of priming?

It'd be pretty easy to determine the strongest total hp target of any cluster. Just aim for the heavy. HP at cast/priming would mean that a healthy grunt will cause a bigger explosion on death than a nearly dead heavy.

 

 

HP damage dealt during the prime. So, target switching would be your best bet in some cases.