A Message To The Dev, Design And Art Team Regarding The Design Of Frames.

[Kuhrasu]

I see what you mean but hydroid was a bad example there, it really turned out great as something that reminds a pirate, has a great overall shape. And zephyr is just the way it is. The zephyr theme is a theme of crowded curves and details and melted look. It somewhat reminds of gasses swirling in the air. You're saying that every warframe should be built of out of few basic building blocks and have a same exact amount of detail and reasoning behind the shapes or whatever you might call it.

No, I just don't like frames feeling like overdesigned teenager notebook drawings, Hydroid can probably even keep the same shape, he just needs new normal maps and a coloring pattern that makes sense.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Kuhrasu

[Satsaru]

All I am saying is that I don't want new frames to continue being a clusterf*ck, is that too hard to understand? Are you attempting to imply that they aren't a clusterf*ck? Again, your blanket statement that everything is an opinion, does not remove basic factual arguments like "this frame has way too much going on visually". You even agreed with me on that, so what is your point?

See, here's the thing, we don't agree that there is too much going on with zephyr's design.  I'm saying that its fine if you think the most recent ones are too busy.  But its just that, your thoughts.  There is no objective, factual line as to what constitutes "too busy".  I, personally like the kind of busy look to zephyr.  She stands out, its very different from the dude-in-an-armored-jumpsuit look that a great deal of other early frames have.  Quite contrary to your opinio, because that is what it is, I find that many of the earlier frames look a bit boring and plain.

 

A fact is something like "Gravity exist".  You can't argue with that.  It exist whether you like it or not, but we are discussing art, which in of its self is entirely subjective from the start.

[lautalocos]

the things is, most of these things are opinions.

as an example, i love the design of zephyr, i think it´s really well done.

 

i think it´s okay that the art team got away from the almost completely organic design of the first warframes, because that would have gotten old really fast.

 

some people love ash, but i think that his arms look a little out of place.

some people like vauban, but i think he doesn´t look very tenno

some people hate oberon, but i like him a lot.

 

different tastes for everyone

[Sasquatchias]

At best, you could argue that Zephyr's default colour scheme clashes.

 

You can change that.

 

My Zephyr and Rhino have the same colour scheme, and they both look great. 

 

If you don't like it, that's fine, but it's your opinion. 

 

Personally I don't like amount of patterns/lines on Zephyr. (I'm unsure as to what the correct term for it is.)

 

While I do like my Warframes detailed, I think that Zephyr's is excessive and just doesn't mesh all that well.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Sasquatch180

[spacedkadet]

I wont beat around the bush, I've been here over a year and have all the frames and all I can say is that the last 3 (maybe 4) have been below average on look and skill choice. They stepped away from the gritty design of the earlier frames and, to me at least, look poor for it. I levelled up all the frames but have no interest to go back to play any of the newer frames, hydroid/zephyr/oberon/valkyr just don't match up compared to the older and far better frames. 

[Aure7]

No, I just don't like frames feeling like overdesigned teenager notebook drawings, Hydroid can probably even keep the same shape, he just needs new normal maps and a coloring pattern that makes sense.

i still don't get why you keep posting these pics. I am not blind, maybe you meant that my opinion is different than yours.

 

And for me his coloring pattern makes perfect sense.

[Kuhrasu]

i still don't get why you keep posting these pics. I am not blind, maybe you meant that my opinion is different than yours.

 

And for me his coloring pattern makes perfect sense.

Ok.

[Divine-Seraphymne]

i still don't get why you keep posting these pics. I am not blind, maybe you meant that my opinion is different than yours.

 

And for me his coloring pattern makes perfect sense.

I think you're missing the point.

 

The two frames do not look as though they are from the same game at all. The clean lines and well textured work on the left in ash is completely mislaid on the frame on the right. It is overly busy with the 'melted icecream' look and plastic oiled latex finish which is completely removed from the first frames made.

 

It's jarring and isn't at all in keeping with the original style of warframe.

[V0LK]

Well there is generally good and bad taste.

 

A girl with a tattoo and piercing can look good. But then we have this thing:

And Warframe is all like this thing. Game's design goes for the shock value.

 

Ofcourse, you can argue that this thing looks beautiful, but then you are f*ckin insane.

[Aure7]

I think you're missing the point.

 

The two frames do not look as though they are from the same game at all. The clean lines and well textured work on the left in ash is completely mislaid on the frame on the right. It is overly busy with the 'melted icecream' look and plastic oiled latex finish which is completely removed from the first frames made.

 

It's jarring and isn't at all in keeping with the original style of warframe.

well what I was saying that it is perfectly valid for frames differ from one another so much. Melted icecream is the "thing" of zephyr and it looks okay for me. Orokin were and entire empire, race or something that we don't know yet, it makes sense they explored vastly different designs. If everyone looked like ash, excalibur or rhino just with repositioned elements and shapes, the game would be booring.

[Ionus]

They are not made by the same person, please educate yourself before trying to make an argument.

Volt, Rhino, Excalibur, Loki, Nyx and I think Mag were all done by KT:

http://blog.keiththompsonart.com/2013/07/volt-from-warframe.html

Mynki did the rest and while some of the early ones were decent, his latest work is really sub par.

  

when you're wrong people tend to completely ignore you

If you two took the time to read [DE]Draice's post on a previous page in this thread, you would know that Hydroid IS Keith's design.

[Divine-Seraphymne]

well what I was saying that it is perfectly valid for frames differ from one another so much. Melted icecream is the "thing" of zephyr and it looks okay for me. Orokin were and entire empire, race or something that we don't know yet, it makes sense they explored vastly different designs. If everyone looked like ash, excalibur or rhino just with repositioned elements and shapes, the game would be booring.

A radical difference in design may have it's place in the real world, but I'm afraid when trying to sell a product such as this game it will only detract from it.

 

Ultimately having a central art style that people can see and recognize as warframe serves the game and encourages people to recognise the brand and the game.

 

Skirting from that or avoiding it altogether does the game a disservice.

 

And this is aside from the opinion of whether zephyr looks good or bad.

[Divine-Seraphymne]

  

If you two took the time to read [DE]Draice's post on a previous page in this thread, you would know that Hydroid IS Keith's design.

I believe his exact words were 'born from his imagination'.

 

Which seems a far cry from implying that it is entirely Keiths design.

 

I point to the concept for Zephyr and the finished Zephyr which are completely different.

 

I wonder if Hydroid suffered the same fate.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Divine-Seraphymne

[SableSonata]

I believe his exact words were 'born from his imagination'.

 

Which seems a far cry from implying that it is entirely Keiths design.

 

I point to the concept for Zephyr and the finished Zephyr which are completely different.

 

I wonder if Hydroid suffered the same fate.

Well the 'concept' for Zephyr was actually fan-made. the Zephyr we have was inspired by it; not based on it.

[Ionus]

I believe his exact words were 'born from his imagination'.

 

Which seems a far cry from implying that it is entirely Keiths design.

 

I point to the concept for Zephyr and the finished Zephyr which are completely different.

 

I wonder if Hydroid suffered the same fate.

He said in the same post that they were outsourcing his work for Hydroid's and the next warframes design. Then in his next post he mentioned the current Hydroid is "1:1" with the concept art.

[Kuhrasu]

He said in the same post that they were outsourcing his work for Hydroid's and the next warframes design. Then in his next post he mentioned the current Hydroid is "1:1" with the concept art.

it's a great thing that we've actually seen this concept art from KT then.

[Morphic224]

I respect that everyone has their own opinion here but I personally agree with OP and would really love if they would reconsider Zephyrs apperance. I love her abilitys but I was greatly disappointed by her warframe after seeing the original inspiration for the frame.

[Dead_Rabbits]

Ash looks like an insect with a headcrab on his head.

[Ionus]

it's a great thing that we've actually seen this concept art from KT then.

 

If you're being sarcastic Draice said he'd bring out the concept when he gets the go-ahead.

[Noble_Cactus]

I just can't help thinking it's a huge shame that DE stopped getting concepts from Keith Thompson. Especially since his work is incredible. Or atleast brief the design team to try and stay on track with the original warframes.

It's rather jarring to have rhino up against Zephyr with both of them looking as though they are from completely different games.

Someone brought this to my attention recently and how great it would look as an Orokin enemy rather than the normal enemies with hats on we have now.

http://www.keiththompsonart.com/images/full/seraguardian.jpg

Although as before I don't believe in getting rid of Mynki's designs even though I don't like them personally. I just would enjoy some alternatives to them that are more inline with the original warframe designs even if they are for a premium.

 

That enemy actually became one of the Guardians in Borderlands 1. Keith did some concept work for the Eridian/Alien guns and the alien enemies for that game.

 

http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/Sera_Guardian

 

Anyway I'm glad Draice cleared up the confusion surrounding who designs the frames.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Noble_Cactus

[Aggh]

Yeah, im sorry De but you lost. The fan Design of Zephyr is just so much better IMO that its not funny, and i was actually so disappointed by your concept that to this day i still havent used Zephyr. Im interested in her abilities, as trolling as they are, but not in that suit thats been banhammered by the Ugly stick.

 

And as bad as it sounds that i say these things, and it doesnt seem repectful to Mynki and all, it has to be said. People have to be criticized in order to improve, and right now, thats what Mynki needs to do.

The cloth like design really doesn't fit too well with any of the designs in waframe.  The bodily proportions and lesser overall bulk of the original design does look better though.  It needed a rework, but imo they went a little too far from the source material in order to stick to their current artistic vision.

 

It's similar to Mynki insisting on keeping trinity's skirt despite the universal dislike of it among players.  I don't really buy the concept of adding ugliness to make them imperfect.  Sometimes a bad design is just a bad design and you need to take it back to the drawing board.  Someone said it earlier, these warframes may be Mynki's art, but they're also a product.  Products are not just art that you make for yourself, they're also something that you're selling to people.

 

It's sort of like those chefs who refuse to have salt and pepper on the tables in their restaurant because they believe customers have come solely to eat their cooking, rather than come to buy dinner.  It's a flawed way of thinking.  Customers know what they want, and while they may not be experts, when a lot of them dislike something, chances are there's something wrong with it.

Edited May 31, 2014 by Aggh

[Kuhrasu]

If you're being sarcastic Draice said he'd bring out the concept when he gets the go-ahead.

Ok.

[Ionus]

The cloth like design really doesn't fit too well with any of the designs in waframe.  The bodily proportions and lesser overall bulk of the original design does look better though.  It needed a rework, but imo they went a little too far from the source material in order to stick to their current artistic vision.

 

It's similar to Mynki insisting on keeping trinity's skirt despite the universal dislike of it among players.  I don't really buy the concept of adding ugliness to make them imperfect.  Sometimes a bad design is just a bad design and you need to take it back to the drawing board.  Someone said it earlier, these warframes may be Mynki's art, but they're also a product.  Products are not just art that you make for yourself, they're also something that you're selling to people.

 

It's sort of like those chefs who refuse to have salt and pepper on the tables in their restaurant because they believe customers have to come solely to eat their cooking, rather than come to buy dinner.  It's a flawed way of thinking.  Customers know what they want, and while they may not be experts, when a lot of them dislike something, chances are there's something wrong with it.

 

There are just as many people who like her skirt as it is now, if not more. By this point everybody just uses the "lobster tail" as a joke. It's apparent it has grown on people.

[Aggh]

There are just as many people who like her skirt as it is now, if not more. By this point everybody just uses the "lobster tail" as a joke. It's apparent it has grown on people.

Point me to all the threads with piles of people defending the skirt and saying they love it please.

[Ionus]

Point me to all the threads with piles of people defending the skirt and saying they love it please.

 

Point me to the latest complaint thread about Trinity's skirt and you have your answer.