Thoughts On Releasing The Aklato Prime And Dual Skana Prime [Please Be Civil And Constructive]

[Rakosta_Kai]

But that's not actually as reason as to why players want these items so much that they're willing to spill 50+ pages of virtual ink on it. I'm not criticising you (I'd believe what you say) but it doesn't provide the motivation, so to speak. Just the means.

 

The motivation never changed... Many who frequent this forum hears "No" or "That's the way it is" and does everything in it's power to argue the point.

 

It's insane...

 

50+ pages really isn't so bad, to be honest.

 

I'd venture that the number of pages arguing and/or attempting to marginalize:

Founders

Design Counsel Access

and

Founder's Exclusives 

 

Number well into the hundreds at this point.

[Sparrohawk]

@Sparrohawk

I guess greed would be a way to put it for some, for me it's more a lack of reasons to not do something. I see no reason that dual/ak shouldn't be added in the game personally and I see people that would be willing to spend money on it. People spending money on a game I like and supporting it with said money is always a positive in my book.

 

I also see no reason why they shouldn't. But that is not a good enough argument in any sense to serve as a reason why they *should*. While making money is usually a good thing for a company, I would also hope DE wouldn't just shrug and say 'eh, more money' then add something into the game solely predicated on that.

[Xurix3000]

You realize that was closed for other reasons other than just people wanting the thread closed right? its just a duplicate of the already existing going on 60 pages thread. Its an unneeded thread because its just another copy of a thread that is currently going on.

 

I swear people crying for the thread to be closed should leave the thread themselves  if it bothers them too much. (ofc its a free forum and they have the right to post but come on if it really annoys these people why are they coming back to the thread?) Since asking for it to be closed is literally admitting that it annoys them and they cannot handle whats being discussed properly. Rather than either leaving the thread alone or just plain staying and debating. (thats right its possible to ignore something)

 

Just saying comments like "mod close the thread" or "close it now" seem childish. Just as much as people screaming "mine" or "gimme":S If a thread is meant to be closed it will be. If its open complaining for it to be closed is best done in a PM to a mod or DE. As such comments aren't needed and don't have much constructive value

 

That being said the closest thing to compromises have been made, its in DE's hands now. As they are aware of the situation and how people feel (as drews comment suggests) People can go back and forth on the details but nothing will really change until DE makes the final call.

 

Also Akangstrum prime ftw XD now thats something to be called crazy. Im pretty sure we can all agree on that

 

You realize that was closed for other reasons other than just people wanting the thread closed right? its just a duplicate of the already existing going on 60 pages thread. Its an unneeded thread because its just another copy of a thread that is currently going on.

 

I swear people crying for the thread to be closed should leave the thread themselves  if it bothers them too much. (ofc its a free forum and they have the right to post but come on if it really annoys these people why are they coming back to the thread?) Since asking for it to be closed is literally admitting that it annoys them and they cannot handle whats being discussed properly. Rather than either leaving the thread alone or just plain staying and debating. (thats right its possible to ignore something)

 

Just saying comments like "mod close the thread" or "close it now" seem childish. Just as much as people screaming "mine" or "gimme":S If a thread is meant to be closed it will be. If its open complaining for it to be closed is best done in a PM to a mod or DE. As such comments aren't needed and don't have much constructive value

 

That being said the closest thing to compromises have been made, its in DE's hands now. As they are aware of the situation and how people feel (as drews comment suggests) People can go back and forth on the details but nothing will really change until DE makes the final call.

 

Also Akangstrum prime ftw XD now thats something to be called crazy. Im pretty sure we can all agree on that

Have you been reading this thread, sure there is discussion but its not progress. reason is just like in other threads DE and Even Mods have said that there is no plans to make dual versions of these weapons the skana and lato primes. there are only two people here who understand this the rest just cant take no for an answer. Discussion are now off topic and in most forums when a topic goes down this road there is no point in keeping it running.

[MerelyARumor]

 Posted by MerelyARumor on 07 June 2014 - 06:22 PM

You guys are clearly forgetting that the amount of people that would rebuy the founders exclusives could heavily outfavor the cost of refunding

 

 

Solution 1 : refund founders, re-release- get tons of profit 

 

 

Solution 2 : take exclusive everything off mastery charts and codex   , Give an item that maxes mastery rank of 1 weapon for every exclusive item taken off the menu (the legendary core of weapon ranking)   

 

solution 3 : Allow for founder exlusives to become tradeable, Giving founders the choice of what they wish to do with there OWN items that THEY paid for and shouldnt give a crap about what the other founders say about it(if you dont want to trade,dont trade,it doesnt get downgraded in rarity if the EXACT same amount of people have it, it might even become more rare because some people might go hunt them to npc them...... if they want to get rid of there items which they deem virtually useless for insane plat profit, let them? also fixing peoples chances of getting mastery rank done and keeping profile icons exclusive to represent founders still  (also dont give me this bull@#%$ about founders spirit, last time i checked founders were threatening to sue DE for not shooting themselves in the foot...founders spirit is a joke..)

 

solution 4: release dual versions of founders exclusives.... i dont really see how this will fix anything tbh, i also dont understand how owning a specific item automatically gives you the right to other versions of the item, if thats the case, the guy who said lato skana and excalibur should be founders only as well,pretty accurate...seeing as founders CLEARLY just ''own the rights'' to all of those things because they paid money at a specified time, they are more clearly more special than people who pay big money for prime access or buy tons of plat and should be treated as such, because if you dont feed your sheep they will stab you in the back and try to ruin your game , in fact, they should have the rights to ALL THE PRIMES because they paid that 1 time, they automatically own all the rights to all the bling in the game, and should just own everything themselves and bathe in there prime everything because they ''earned it'' , the game was made for them,they should own the entire game,everyone elses money is just to keep the founders game running for the founders everyone /sarcasm

 

 

solution 5: DE does nothing, DE gets 5-10 of these posts a day, DE loses potential customers consistently for the rest of there game making career, DE Shoots themself in the foot to please there minority in there game, because ''founders spirit'' 

 

 

 

 

This Screwdriver is useless, But i paid for it when it came out so you arent allowed to use power drills

 

This shoe doesnt fit, but you cant have a pair...founders spiiiiriiiit *rings a jingle bell*

 

this chopstick is useless...

 

 

 

edit: just read an interesting idea on a different founders blah blah blah thread

 

 

solution 6 - make it possible to obtain 24 hour expiration  excalibur prime, skana prime and lato prime to rank for mastery

 

 

 

 

'' from that abyss for all the people who wont read every comment''

Edited June 11, 2014 by MerelyARumor

[Sparrohawk]

[snip]

 

So because you can't have these items, and because DE probably won't enact any of the solutions you so eloquently and carefully described, you're happy to threaten them with repeated harassment on their own forums and make catastrophic predictions about losing customers because said players don't have access to two items? Two items that aren't even that good?

Mountain is being made out of molehill here, methinks. Also childish tantrum-throwing is being taken to new levels.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Sparrohawk

[dragonkingdx]

 

 

Have you been reading this thread, sure there is discussion but its not progress. reason is just like in other threads DE and Even Mods have said that there is no plans to make dual versions of these weapons the skana and lato primes. there are only two people here who understand this the rest just cant take no for an answer. Discussion are now off topic and in most forums when a topic goes down this road there is no point in keeping it running.

 

DE has said it doesn't break the agreement to release a dual version of a founders weapon. So there is something to discuss/debate on what the terms would be if they do decide to do it. (as they dont need a plan to humor the idea) It was also stated that staff understand founders positions on it. But the sheer fact that this thread is still open shows that its possible for them to do it but they want to see ideas from the community. (this is on assumption as they in all rights can close it at any time yet have chose not to) And use that for reference for if they were to do it what would be okay with people and what would not.

 

The fact that you think it means no instantly kinda shows you didn't read the thread (as ive read it from page 1) I wont deny that there are many off subject comments or comments that lead farther away from the subject in increment (that happens with a lot of debates where 1 thing leads to another then another then another etc) However thats no reason for it to be closed

Edited June 11, 2014 by dragonkingdx

[Doom_Bunny]

So because you can't have these items, and because DE probably won't enact any of the solutions you so eloquently and carefully described, you're happy to threaten them with repeated harassment on their own forums and make catastrophic predictions about losing customers because said players don't have access to two items? Two items that aren't even that good?

Mountain is being made out of molehill here, methinks. Also childish tantrum-throwing is being taken to new levels.

MerelyARumour's post is one in a long list of posts that mention catastrophic disasters. Both sides have made these sort of predictions before.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Postal_pat

[MerelyARumor]

So because you can't have these items, and because DE probably won't enact any of the solutions you so eloquently and carefully described, you're happy to threaten them with repeated harassment on their own forums and make catastrophic predictions about losing customers because said players don't have access to two items? Two items that aren't even that good?

Mountain is being made out of molehill here, methinks. Also childish tantrum-throwing is being taken to new levels.

i simply speak what is happening, the 10000+ post thread and the hundreds of founder arguement threads are proof enough that we really need change

also, some of those solutions are really good, they are from this thread too, ive been collecting them, but people will find arguements for all of them, way to attack me though lol its very constructive

Edited June 11, 2014 by MerelyARumor

[Sparrohawk]

i simply speak what is happening, the 10000+ post thread and the hundred of founder arguement threads are proof enough

 

No, you're making threats. You are making wild claims that DE's *entire game making career* will be damaged if they do not do exactly as you say. That's not only freakishly out of proportion, it's also petty. 

 

That said, you seem to be entirely willing to spend an inordinate amount of time arguing that your Tenno should have access to a few extra megabytes of game data, so: Why do you want these items so bad?

[DJ_Redwire]

This Screwdriver is useless, But i paid for it when it came out so you arent allowed to use power drills

 

I think this statement perfectly sums up the flaws of your misguided rant. According to your analogy, the original founders items are like a screwdriver, and the hypothetical dual variants are that of power tools. Excuse me for putting it so drolly, but u srs brah?

 

If you weren't clouded with such delusion, the analogy would be more like if the original founders items are like a screwdriver, and the dual variants are a pair of screwdrivers. A dual version of either of the founders weapons would be no more effective than their single counterparts unless grossly buffed beyond imagination. You're seriously living in a fantasy world if you think that's the case.

[MeduSalem]

As much as this catastrophic predictions may be made up out of thin air, it has a point somehow. It at least leaves a deep crack in the very foundations of the Community which should have an impact on how DE handles such stuff in the future.

[MerelyARumor]

Lets pretend that at the start of this game

there was 100 players, and 10% were founders....so 10 founders

over a year, 1000 new players join, but 200 leave because they cant get what they want (vs 10 founders who may or may not stop being loyal to the game after whats done is done)

the amount of profits lost for the sake of the tiny amount....when they can just refund and rerelease at the same price and not only  make more money,but keep a larger amount of there playerbase happy and supporting them , being more beneficial in almost every way..... unless your telling me that somehow, because you spent a large amount of money at a very very specified time that you are better than every other player that would spend a large amount of money at a different time? because they didnt know about it till recently? 

 

i have no idea how big the founder % base compared to the total population, and it be hard to prove WHY people left the game, but im pretty sure they would make significantly more money ,  and more player base happy, as opposed to just feeding there sheep....making 90% of the player base not even want to play the poster boy of the entire game

 

even just taking the mastery points away from exclusives, just that alone, would cut the negativity and constant threads by a large sum

 

basing it solely on how theres like..5-10 of these threads a day, all i see is it would be an improvement

 

 

 

also qouted from a post buried in this thead somewhere.....my explanation for why they are shooting themselves in the foot

im sorry that the truth is offensive

 

what your doing is attacking alternative ideas...like they are some sort of blasphemy on this forum?

Edited June 11, 2014 by MerelyARumor

[Sparrohawk]

As much as this catastrophic predictions may be made up out of thin air, it has a point somehow. It at least leaves a deep crack in the very foundations of the Community which should have an impact on how DE handles such stuff in the future.

 

There's a deep crack in the psychological lookout of a few members of the community on the forums, maybe. But it's wrong to conflate forum-goers with the entire community.

[Sparrohawk]

 

Lets pretend that at the start of this game

there was 100 players, and 10% were founders....so 10 founders

over a year, 1000 new players join, but 200 leave because they cant get what they want (vs 10 founders who may or may not stop being loyal to the game after whats done is done)

the amount of profits lost for the sake of the tiny amount....when they can just refund and rerelease at the same price and not only  make more money,but keep a larger amount of there playerbase happy and supporting them , being more beneficial in almost every way..... unless your telling me that somehow, because you spent a large amount of money at a very very specified time that you are better than every other player that would spend a large amount of money at a different time? because they didnt know about it till recently? 

 

i have no idea how big the founder % base compared to the total population, and it be hard to prove WHY people left the game, but im pretty sure they would make significantly more money ,  and more player base happy, as opposed to just feeding there sheep....making 90% of the player base not even want to play the poster boy of the entire game

 

even just taking the mastery points away from exclusives, just that alone, would cut the negativity and constant threads by a large sum

 

basing it solely on how theres like..5-10 of these threads a day, all i see is it would be an improvement

 

 

 

also qouted from a post buried in this thead somewhere.....my explanation for why they are shooting themselves in the foot

 

 

You have a few problems here. One, you are using entirely unsupportable numbers in every possible definition of the phrase. So your argument doesn't really work there. 

 

Two, no, I'm not saying that Founders are better and therefore we are entitled to items that you are not. That would be foolish, and if that is the argument you imagine we are making then all you've done is inform everyone else as to how you view material possessions in relation to your self-worth. Instead, the simple fact is that in the time we played this game, there was an opportunity to help fund this game's early progress, and to be rewarded with certain exclusive items. That opportunity has now passed. Those who did not play the game at that time are unlucky, nothing more.

 

Three, when you say that you have no idea how many founders there are, and you have no idea how many people don't play anymore nor why they left, and then proceed to state that you think initiating this procedure would keep more people happy, you are admitting your opinion comes from a place of near-complete ignorance of every factor that could inform on DE's decision in this case. 

 

Fourth, why does the extra Mastery matter so much? Beyond a certain rank, it's entirely meaningless as all it limits is certain weapons, and the highest rank weapons cap out at level 8; not hard to reach should you decide to work at it. Not to mention that with Forma, you have a massive amount of Mastery to obtain just with non-exclusive items.

[Doom_Bunny]

No, you're making threats. You are making wild claims that DE's *entire game making career* will be damaged if they do not do exactly as you say. That's not only freakishly out of proportion, it's also petty. 

Considering the side for "not release these weapons" has already said they would take legal action/damage DE's rep/have everyone leave if the weapons were released. Yeah, this part isn't going any where as people will still make predications to get their point across.

[WildJuice]

imo just sell like one-time mastery points pill that'd cover those 2 items and nobody would give a F*** , those weapons suck....useless mastery fodder S#&$, dont want them, just the mastery, lel

[DJ_Redwire]

Considering the side for "not release these weapons" has already said they would take legal action/damage DE's rep/have everyone leave if the weapons were released. Yeah, this part isn't going any where as people will still make predications to get their point across.

 

“Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it.” - Leo Tolstoy, A Confession

[Sparrohawk]

Considering the side for "not release these weapons" has already said they would take legal action/damage DE's rep/have everyone leave if the weapons were released. Yeah, this part isn't going any where as people will still make predications to get their point across.

 

I find that just as sad as indignantly demanding these items be released 'just because'.

[MeduSalem]

There's a deep crack in the psychological lookout of a few members of the community on the forums, maybe. But it's wrong to conflate forum-goers with the entire community.

 

Maybe true... I'm only able to speak for myself, because my clan members don't care about the forums and most of the drama going on here, but still I relay most of the news/development to keep them up-to-date about things they should know, so I pretty much assume (so don't take it for granted) it's similar at other clans or people. Stuff going on here eventually will erupt to the surface even to players not caring about the official forums. If something of this magnitude ends up bad then probably everybody will know sooner or later. It's already exceeded the average size of Nova-Nerf threads and Trinity-Nerf threads. Wouldn't shake that off so easily if I were DE.

[MerelyARumor]

You have a few problems here. One, you are using entirely unsupportable numbers in every possible definition of the phrase. So your argument doesn't really work there. 

 

Two, no, I'm not saying that Founders are better and therefore we are entitled to items that you are not. That would be foolish, and if that is the argument you imagine we are making then all you've done is inform everyone else as to how you view material possessions in relation to your self-worth. Instead, the simple fact is that in the time we played this game, there was an opportunity to help fund this game's early progress, and to be rewarded with certain exclusive items. That opportunity has now passed. Those who did not play the game at that time are unlucky, nothing more.

 

Three, when you say that you have no idea how many founders there are, and you have no idea how many people don't play anymore nor why they left, and then proceed to state that you think initiating this procedure would keep more people happy, you are admitting your opinion comes from a place of near-complete ignorance of every factor that could inform on DE's decision in this case. 

 

Fourth, why does the extra Mastery matter so much? Beyond a certain rank, it's entirely meaningless as all it limits is certain weapons, and the highest rank weapons cap out at level 8; not hard to reach should you decide to work at it. Not to mention that with Forma, you have a massive amount of Mastery to obtain just with non-exclusive items.

yet the founders are saying that they are entitled to control what happens to items that do not yet exist in the game, such as a dual aklato p  and dual skana p, which is basically thinking that they are above the rest of the playerbase , there seems to be alot of people in here who think that because they spent plat at 1 point, they are better than people who spend plat at a different point, i dont think they are, they do

 

for your first and third point , sorry i didnt spend the time calculating how many founders are in the game , vs how many players have left because they cant get what they want over the entire course of the game+the players who would still buy exclusives but havent left, if i had the resources...i would surely try, i also didnt take the time to go and count all the founders exclusive threads and complaints made by tons of people on here daily for the entire time the game has been out, im not omniscient and i dont have that kind of free time 

 

and your 4th point, mastery is basically the goal of the game right now , you get all your mods, you beat every map, then what do you do? well if you have any incentive to continue playing after that you master every possible weapon you can in this *weapon simulator* game and then you put hours and hours of effort in and find out you cant get all the mastery, because you didnt play at the right time.

Edited June 11, 2014 by MerelyARumor

[Doom_Bunny]

“Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it.” - Leo Tolstoy, A Confession

No it does not, it still does not mean we should deviate from the topic to discuss it.

[DJ_Redwire]

yet the founders are saying that they are entitled to control what happens to items that do not yet exist in the game, such as a dual aklato p  and dual skana p, which is basically thinking that they are above the rest of the playerbase

 

Wrong. Find me ONE instance of where any founder in this thread has stated that they feel entitled to an aklato prime and a dual skana prime. If you're right, that should be easy as pie. What has ACTUALLY been said by most founders is that they shouldn't be released at all. To any one. See the difference?

[Sparrohawk]

yet the founders are saying that they are entitled to items that do not yet exist in the game, such as a dual aklato p  and dual skana p, which is basically thinking that they are above the rest of the playerbase

 

for your first and third point , sorry i didnt spend the time calculating how many founders are in the game , vs how many players have left because they cant get what they want, if i had the resources...i would surely try

 

and your 4th point, mastery is basically the goal of the game right now , you get all your mods, you beat every map, then what do you do? well if you have any incentive to continue playing after that you master every possible weapon you can in this *weapon simulator* game and then you put hours and hours of effort in and find out you cant get all the mastery, because you didnt play at the right time.

 

If there are seriously Founders who are saying that they are entitled to items that aren't in-game yet, then that's silly. And find me a quote, by the by. Otherwise, given the fact that you've happily lied already, I'll consider this a lie as well.

 

Yes, you don't have access to those numbers. The fact that you'd try to calculate them if you had access does not invalidate the fact that you completely and entirely lied in every important respect to try to make an argument. Try to avoid that if you want to be taken seriously.

 

If your argument is about achieving maximum Mastery rank, then you cannot simply attack Founder weapons. You must also criticise DE for not releasing Excalibur Prime, the Braton and Lato Vandals, the Snipetron, as well as any other retired/event weapons that you happened to miss.

[RancidTurnip1603]

It was bad enough that I had the level the crap factory AKLato and Dual skanas for mastery,  and you're arguing FOR more garbage weapons to level? you crazy bro?

[dragonkingdx]

If there are seriously Founders who are saying that they are entitled to items that aren't in-game yet, then that's silly. And find me a quote, by the by. Otherwise, given the fact that you've happily lied already, I'll consider this a lie as well.

 

Yes, you don't have access to those numbers. The fact that you'd try to calculate them if you had access does not invalidate the fact that you completely and entirely lied in every important respect to try to make an argument. Try to avoid that if you want to be taken seriously.

 

If your argument is about achieving maximum Mastery rank, then you cannot simply attack Founder weapons. You must also criticise DE for not releasing Excalibur Prime, the Braton and Lato Vandals, the Snipetron, as well as any other retired/event weapons that you happened to miss.

I think he may be referring to the posts where some founders said that they had no right to have their exclusive items because they believed that they in dual versions are still considered their exclusive weapons just x2 ed.  (when they were earlier on debating on the fact that its like having 2 of the singular versions in their hands IE getting 2 of their exclusive weapons)

 

Though thats only my guess