I Think The Grineer Need To Be Checked Out.

[Damagedice]

With the damage 2.0 thing and enemies now inflicting statuses, there is this ridiculous problem of where, moderately for the "regular" grineer on ships and such, you're triggered bleed over and over and eventually die. This is aggravated by the napalms massive fire aoe that even if it misses can still set you alight. While you're bleeding. If you aren't on the floor from his punch or a scorpion or staggered by a roller or blasted down by a Bombard. Keep Bombards in mind.

On earth, and even worse, phobos, the level of bleed procs spiral OUT OF CONTROL and everywhere you go youll find yourself taking health damage. anything short of a literally instant nuke, (even an extremely rapid kill!) and youll find yourself losing more and more health, whether you were smart enough to able enough to get out with your shields in tact or not.

 

On phobos, the hellions fly up, fire a ton of rockets and knock you down almost guaranteed to get knocked down. And if youre on a frame with high enough shields to rag that up, you still get bleed procced. It's incredible. Somebody solo that one survival on phobos for even 15 minutes and you'll see what im talking about. Anything but rhino and youre going to die eventually. 
Note that I was saryn, and still got chewed to rags even though her default aura is fitting for "Rejuvination" with a mighty ~3 hp a second returned. Youd have to be friggin trinity, rhino, or dead. I know a team would make me get hit -less-, but bleed is bleed. You will die. No matter how you play. 
They need that proc chance lowered. The fact that grineer have so much crowd control, area, zone control, and corpus just give you weak puncture procs and hope their squishy shockwavers knock you down, when a grineer can miss a rocket and still knock you down from behind, is atrocious.

It's brakk & marelok vs. detron all over again. It's extremely unbalanced, and its just the procs making this hard to tolerate. (The grineer heavies are already made the grineer harder than the corpus, too, before this straight-to-hp garbage.)

I feel like the status chance needs to be lowered for grineers with slash damage, and the rockets need to knock down less, from both the sprayspamming hellions and the I-missed-but-youre-on-the-floor-getting-slash-bursted-lol Bombards.

Edit: There's another popular post talking about how we basically need enemies with more mechanics. I love the idea; I dont want to get people to get the idea that I want foes weaker or more helpless. But things like bleed proc dont let the player do anything. The crowd control is one thing, but how do you stop yourself from taking straight hp health from a distance? You don't. Until the enemies are depthy I think they could do with less bleed.

Edited June 5, 2014 by Damagedice

[Kylecrafts]

Many good points. Grineer do need balancing.

Edited June 5, 2014 by Kylecrafts

[Phatose]

Or you can just do what I do:  Use anti-knockdown mods, and either play a frame with healing or use equilibrium and let energy orbs heal you.

[Prod_Crewman]

i would say they need a buff, actually, not a big buff

[Kylecrafts]

Also: Solo player experience is lacking. DE seems to be forcing us into matches with other players, more and more as time goes on.

[Cheridan]

Honestly, the normal Grineer with their BLEED BLEED BLEED grakatas with high first-shot accuracy seem stronger to me than the 'Elite' Grineer with their 10% status chance Hinds. Something should probably change there so the Elites are actually elite.

 

If you're having bleeding issues, a melee weapon with Lifestrike is good to keep yourself topped off.

[Marthrym]

The Bleed proc is $&*&*#(%&, that's all^^.

 

When it procs, which is rather often, you start bleeding, even though you still have shields that stopped the bullet, but apparently not, because you start bleeding anyway. Not to mention Corpus lasers that make you bleed as well. Seriously. Lasers. That make you bleed. Nice one... Hum... Okay first problem here^^'.

 

The bleed damage is also proportionnal to the damage the enemy's weapon does. $&*&*#(%& enemy scaling + $&*&*#(%& secondary source of damage. Okay, another problem^^.

 

Basically, either you play a frame with healing capabilities, stack up on "medkits", or use Equilibrium and pray you'll find enough red and blue orbs to compensate the absurd amount of health you'll loose because of previously mentioned $&*&*#(%& mechanics. Which you probably won't because red orbs are apparently like unicorns^^'.

 

The bleed proc should be "balanced" (reads nerfed to stop bypassing shields). BTW who thought that was a smart thing to begin with -_-? And low level Grineer should do a tad more damage. Or not, opinions vary on that subject.

Edited June 5, 2014 by Marthrym

[HansJurgen]

I can hold out solo on Phobos at least 20 minutes even with Nekros and without breaking much of a sweat. I usually leave at around 25 - 30 minutes, since it is pointless to hold out longer than that.

 

I find Corpus sensibly harder to deal with in higher end missions.

 

You need to look closer into how you mod your frames and how you setup some of your guns, because some of the locations you describe are nowhere as difficult as you claim. 

 

Helions and Bombards can be annoying if you don't pay attention to them, but so can be units like lvl 50+ ancients. Napalms are just big meatbags. and I do not see them as real threats unless they catch me in a narrow corridor.

 

It is interesting how you did not mention any of the strong grineer units, Seekers, Shredders, Elites and Machine Gunners.

[Paradoxbomb]

It would be nice if enemies would occasionally drop health orbs, that would help to alleviate the issue of constant bleedout without making it negligible. However, I think that's all that's really necessary, seeing as one can argue that Health Restores, Equilibrium, Rejuvenation, Life strike, etc. are all options that you can use as well, so it's not that bad so long as you're prepared.

 

Hellions definitely need some kind of nerf though, not only do they have a pretty high chance to knock you down over and over, but they deal a heck of a lot of damage per barrage as well, and it's so accurate that it's practically useless to try and use your "ninja agility" to dodge them. God help you if more than one take off at the same time; one alone can easily stunlock you and take a hefty chunk of health/shields, even on Earth.

 

Give Hellions either strong damage or strong CC, but not both, or at the very least make them less accurate so we can actually dodge them without having 10m of solid wall between you and them.

Edited June 5, 2014 by Paradoxbomb

[yarash2110]

don't forget seekers, those guys can do 500 damage per bullet at wave 35, and if you ever go to a pluto defense with grineer, if seekrs happened to have a bleed proc on you, regardless of the amount of health and armor you got, you are dead, i remember going with frost prime and seeing 500 damage per second right before i die

[yarash2110]

I can hold out solo on Phobos at least 20 minutes even with Nekros and without breaking much of a sweat. I usually leave at around 25 - 30 minutes, since it is pointless to hold out longer than that.

 

I find Corpus sensibly harder to deal with in higher end missions.

 

You need to look closer into how you mod your frames and how you setup some of your guns, because some of the locations you describe are nowhere as difficult as you claim. 

 

Helions and Bombards can be annoying if you don't pay attention to them, but so can be units like lvl 50+ ancients. Napalms are just big meatbags. and I do not see them as real threats unless they catch me in a narrow corridor.

 

It is interesting how you did not mention any of the strong grineer units, Seekers, Shredders, Elites and Machine Gunners.

really? corpus are more difficult then grineer? can corpus oneshot you at level 30? can corpus stun lock you to the point where with enough enemies you will die at level 5? corpus got nothing but damage, which the grineer have more of, grineer got shield bypass, grineer got stunlocks and stuns in general, and aoe attacks, grineer are op no doubt

[HansJurgen]

The bleed proc should be "balanced" (reads nerfed to stop bypassing shields). BTW who thought that was a smart thing to begin with -_-? And low level Grineer should do a tad more damage. Or not, opinions vary on that subject.

 

I reserve a slot for life strike on all my melee weapons. Problem solved.

 

Nevertheless, I agree that bleeding should not occur while shields are still up. However, since this goes both ways, such a change will essentially nerf our weapons and abilities which rely on it, particularly vs corpus and corrupted.

 

Furthermore, for the sake of consistency, this should affect toxic damage as well, which will indirectly buff corpus across the board. 

 

Bleeding is annoying, but I personally don't find much of a headache. 

[HansJurgen]

I would be nice if enemies would occasionally drop health orbs, that would help to alleviate the issue of constant bleedout without making it negligible. However, I think that's all that's really necessary, seeing as one can argue that Health Restores, Equilibrium, Rejuvenation, Life strike, etc. are all options that you can use as well, so it's not that bad so long as you're prepared.

 

Hellions definitely need some kind of nerf though, not only do they have a pretty high chance to knock you down over and over, but they deal a heck of a lot of damage per barrage as well, as it's so accurate that it's practically useless to try and use your "ninja agility" to dodge them. God help you if more than one take off at the same time; one alone can easily stunlock you and take a hefty chunk of health/shields, even on Earth.

 

Give Hellions either strong damage or strong CC, but not both, or at the very least make them less accurate so we can actually dodge them without having 10m of solid wall between you and them.

 

 

I too agree that Hellions' accuracy is too high, or better said, those rockets should lose their seeking ability. 

[HansJurgen]

really? corpus are more difficult then grineer? can corpus oneshot you at level 30? can corpus stun lock you to the point where with enough enemies you will die at level 5? corpus got nothing but damage, which the grineer have more of, grineer got shield bypass, grineer got stunlocks and stuns in general, and aoe attacks, grineer are op no doubt

 

Yes really. Techs, Leech drones, Elites, Antimoa, Detrons? Kill them fast or you are die fast. Corpus weapons come with innate bonuses vs tenno, and deal considerable more damage across the board. Procs are irrelevant when you die in one burst to techs. 

 

As far as your level references goes, to die to level 5 units you must be doing something horribly wrong. 

 

Level 30? Tenno levels are irrelevant. Mods are what makes your warframe strong. I am not sure why you even brought that up. 

Edited June 5, 2014 by HansJurgen

[Damagedice]

Yes really. Techs, Leech drones, Elites, Antimoa, Detrons? Kill them fast or you are die fast. Corpus weapons come with innate bonuses vs tenno, and deal considerable more damage across the board. Procs are irrelevant when you die in one burst to techs. 

I at least agree that techs can burst you down. But you could kill them just as quickly, with a good hit to the face, and his damage would end right there.

Or I could blast a Napalm to death, get lit on fire as he goes down, run down the hallway on fire, get bleed procced while on fire, and die in a corner in a pile of my own shame.

[TheHeraldXII]

Grineer definitely need to be reevaluated based on the proc effects alone. A lot of those proc effects are exacerbated by the way the unit using them works, like Napalms hitting you with their fireblast from miles away through walls, Bombards and Hellions having seeking rockets, bleed procs going through shields (seriously would it be so hard to make them more dangerous but only proc on health damage?). I think the range of the Napalm's blast needs to be toned the hell down and seeking rockets shouldn't be so common or at least should have a much wider turning circle and not be able to turn 180 to keep chasing you. Hellions straight up shouldn't home in, a barrage of missiles that you have to dodge lest you be stunlocked is fine, a barrage...etc that also homes in and is difficult, sometimes actually impossible to dodge isn't.

 

Truthfully I don't think the bleed procs are that big a deal, I have no problem avoiding being bled to death on 'frames with around 300 health (the range is 299-315 health on a lot of 'frames I play) and I used to think it was a big deal but after seeing it in practice it's pretty unlikely that you would get bled dry on a standard length mission. It also doesn't cost you that much to keep a stack of 10 or so health packs in your inventory that will come in handy even without bleed procs coming into the picture. They still shouldn't bleed you through shields, it'd be better if they hurt more but could only proc on health damage.

[Renegade343]

My suggestion would be to make Grineer weaponry non hit-scan (in fact, my goal is that all hit-scan weaponry will become non hit-scan), but have the projectile speed between 350m/s to 400m/s. That would help with dodging bullets while fighting Grineer, making them a bit more balanced and less punishing. 

[HansJurgen]

Once upon a time gamers used to pride themselves for their skill, and wanted their favorite games to ramp up the challenge as much as possible. Nowadays, gamers want even easy games like warframe to be dumbed down further. Seriously, this game couldn't get anymore easymode than it already is unless damage, dots, and procs were nerfed.

 

Lo and behold, some players want exactly that. If the already dummy and terribly weak AI is nerfed any further, warframe should be renamed to Wack-a-mole. 

[Kylecrafts]

-snip- Seriously, this game couldn't get anymore easymode -snip-

This, from the guy with the Rhino Prime avatar?

[PeripheralVisionary]

We should buff the Corpus. The Grineer are too OP.

[PeripheralVisionary]

This, from the guy with the Rhino Prime avatar?

As a Rhino, I figured out two things.

 

-I either have iron skin on pretty much indefinitely as to prevent seekers from killing me with a slash proc.

-You guys don't have a lot of HP.

[HansJurgen]

This, from the guy with the Rhino Prime avatar?

 

Care to translate? I do not speak internet.

[Marthrym]

Once upon a time gamers used to pride themselves for their skill, and wanted their favorite games to ramp up the challenge as much as possible. Nowadays, gamers want even easy games like warframe to be dumbed down further. Seriously, this game couldn't get anymore easymode than it already is unless damage, dots, and procs were nerfed.

 

Lo and behold, some players want exactly that. If the already dummy and terribly weak AI is nerfed any further, warframe should be renamed to Wack-a-mole. 

Wait, isn't it already some kind of futuristic Wack-a-mole with space ninjas?

 

As a Rhino, I figured out two things.

 

-I either have iron skin on pretty much indefinitely as to prevent seekers from killing me with a slash proc.

-You guys don't have a lot of HP.

Iron skin FTW? I don't play Rhino much so I don't think this is a good argument to use sorry^^'.

That's irrelevant. Lots of health or not, you take a lot of damage directly to your health. Not because you suck or anything, but because this proc is broken and wasn't given much thought before being implemented apparently.

 

We should buff the Corpus. The Grineer are too OP.

I think it's the other way around. Corpus do good damage (they die really fast though, maybe to compensate), Grineer do less damage, but they have the Bleed proc. And die just as fast for most of them. Except the occasionnal napalm (hate those guys). Ironic how a SECONDARY source of damage is more dangerous than the actual guns they use...^^

 

Care to translate? I do not speak internet.

I think he implies that because your avatar is a Rhino Prime, you ONLY play Rhino Prime... Beats me too...

[notionphil]

Edit: There's another popular post talking about how we basically need enemies with more mechanics. I love the idea; I dont want to get people to get the idea that I want foes weaker or more helpless. But things like bleed proc dont let the player do anything. The crowd control is one thing, but how do you stop yourself from taking straight hp health from a distance? You don't. Until the enemies are depthy I think they could do with less bleed.

 

+1 I'm the OP of that post and I support your thread 100%.

 

Unavoidable Bleed procs that damage non-regenerating HP, from numerous enemies, should never, ever be in a game.

 

Enemy mechanics should always be able to be overcome by applying skill, tactics or prioritization.

 

Bleed procs cannot be overcome by anything other than getting a lucky RNG roll.

[PeripheralVisionary]

 

 

I think he implies that because your avatar is a Rhino Prime, you ONLY play Rhino Prime... Beats me too...

Rhinos have iron skin, making us invulnerable to procs till it receives enough direct damage. He means that if you are a Rhino and only Rhino, you shouldn't say Grineer slash procs aren't a big deal.