I Think It's Time Boltor Prime Stops Rendering ~130 Weapons Obsolete

[Vorsches]

I own it, I don't use it, I don't really care what happens to it... But I can see why people would defend it. There will always be a weapon that is "at the top of the food chain" and for now it's the boltor prime. Sometimes you might just need an op gun, a T3 survival is an appropriate time to have a weapon that'll still be spanking enemies at level 60+ so your T3 keys don't go to waste. But I reiterate my first line in three simple words: whatever happens, happens.

[Wolfstorm18]

Are you implying that nerfing is inherently bad?

 

 

Yes.

 

And btw, I never saw a Boltor Prime blueprint again, after dozens of Void runs. Its so rare, that some players are offering 100+ plats for it. 

 

Because of its rarity, few players actually use this weapon. So, all those hundreds of threads asking for nerfing it are just standard weeboo whining. 

[Cursor]

Yes.

 

And btw, I never saw a Boltor Prime blueprint again, after dozens of Void runs. Its so rare, that some players are offering 100+ plats for it. 

 

Because of its rarity, few players actually use this weapon. So, all those hundreds of threads asking for nerfing it are just standard weeboo whining. 

 

Well, you're wrong about that, I'm very sorry. Rebalancing is important part of continuous games.

 

And people are using this weapon because it's disgustingly powerful.

[fatpig84]

I don't find Boltor Prime obsoleting my Latron Prime / Marelok for one, or even my dread.

 

Yes it has great DPS but it comes at costing a huge ton of ammo.

But maybe I am just a marksman type of guy.

 

It is great up till level 65. 
But I regularly smack level 80s to level 90s around and dislike pouring so much ammo into 1 heavy.

Edited June 9, 2014 by fatpig84

[Cwierz]

Every time I see these threads I always get a just a bit riled.

 

One side has arguments, and explains them. The other side just goes "no" or "balance is bad".

 

Could you guys at least try to humor the thought that these forums are supposed to be a place of discussion, and not just rule out possible discussion because you like your new toy?

[Stakhanov]

I might have been living under a rock all this time, but is the Boltor Prime really as powerful as this? I remember getting it for Prime Access, 30'd it, found nothing amazing about it, forma'd it five times, put my maxed mods on it and put it on the shelf with the rest of my primaries.

 

If it really is as good as you say, then I don't agree with nerfing them to the ground or at all, I feel there are always other ways around the problem rather than nerfing things, as I know it offends a lot of people on many games when things get their power reduced. If the Boltor Prime is this powerful, then perhaps just make the ways to get weapons that are as good as this just a lot more tricky to get? Through hard work comes reward and something as awesome as this deserves a very strong challenge to obtain. I don't mean reducing drop chances either, that's just grindy, but I feel the better the weapon, the better the challenge is should be. I don't believe nerfs are ever the way forward if you can think your way around them.

[Cursor]

I might have been living under a rock all this time, but is the Boltor Prime really as powerful as this? I remember getting it for Prime Access, 30'd it, found nothing amazing about it, forma'd it five times, put my maxed mods on it and put it on the shelf with the rest of my primaries.

 

If it really is as good as you say, then I don't agree with nerfing them to the ground or at all, I feel there are always other ways around the problem rather than nerfing things, as I know it offends a lot of people on many games when things get their power reduced. If the Boltor Prime is this powerful, then perhaps just make the ways to get weapons that are as good as this just a lot more tricky to get? Through hard work comes reward and something as awesome as this deserves a very strong challenge to obtain. I don't mean reducing drop chances either, that's just grindy, but I feel the better the weapon, the better the challenge is should be. I don't believe nerfs are ever the way forward if you can think your way around them.

 

I don't that being several points stronger than the Braton prime is 'in the ground.'

 

And what of weapons that can't even remotely compare, such as Spectra?

Edited June 9, 2014 by Cursor

[(PSN)The_One_Ares]

EDIT: I give up. This is just as pointless as I thought. Everyone has already gone corrupt with power, and their precious crutch Boltor Prime is the only thing holding them in 5 hour survivals, so there is nothing I can do on the forums.

 

Useless "No." posts have already been rooted, people are insulting me for no reason, and balance has been thrown out the window within minutes.

 

I am also thoroughly convinced half a dozen people did not read my reasoning to this, as I clearly pointed out this change would still leave Boltor Prime more powerful than Braton Prime, Burston Prime, and about every other Prime, yet they argue "primes should be more powerful, so no nerf."

 

I'm done. DE, it's up to you to buckle up and do what needs to be done. You did it with Nova, you can do it with Boltor Prime.

 

BlantantFool, Letter13, Silverbones, just lock the thread if you deem it necessary. This thread has been burnt to the ground within minutes.

 

Now I know why _Nugget quit Warframe.

 

A shame. This is just a shame.

 

Now I know what you're thinking...

 

 

BUT...It's seriously out of line and needs to be dealt with soon before everyone becomes spoiled with it's power (it's already starting to happen!)

 

No, I am not butthurt because I can't get it. I have it and it's potato'd as well.

THIS KID< Let me put it like this most people that are at a high mastery rank suck as 15-16 have a idea on how good weapons are and even good setups. I think this is a prime example of some one not of a high rank and does not find the game fun or appealing in any way. This is also the prime example of a person trying to ruin the game for others and the community by putting his two sense in on a subject he should keep his nose out of simple as that. Also why would you complain about a gun that's very powerful in which it could come on handy and be useful !? Like I said this person who started this forum had no idea what he is talking about and is a person who ruins games for others. By the way who

Doesn't like the boltor prime ?!?!?

[Stakhanov]

I don't that being several points stronger than the Braton prime is 'in the ground.'

 

And what of weapons that can't even remotely compare, such as Spectra?

 

True, the Spectra is a totally mystery to me; I even have a post up to get that thing buffed. They were supposed to scale in accordance to Mastery Rank, hence why the MK1 Braton is no contest for the Soma, being the higher mastery rank, and it's also why it does miff me why there are some oddballs out there.

 

Though it can be argued that those weapons dont remotely compare because the mastery rank system was supposed to be put up as a tier system, which, evidently, doesn't work as intended, at least not yet.

 

I'm also not sure what you mean? I wasn't advocating anything get nerfed at all! I just think there are better ways around it than simply going the easy route to lower the damage.

[fatpig84]

I don't that being several points stronger than the Braton prime is 'in the ground.'

 

And what of weapons that can't even remotely compare, such as Spectra?

 

Soma, Burston Prime and Latron Prime equally out class the Braton Prime too. If so many rifles outclass a certain weapon, then it needs a buff.  Hell even the Gorgon Wrath and Grakata out DPSes the Braton prime too.

 

Grakata, that rank 0 thing, can put out 20k burst DPS if built right.

Only reason why it loses to Soma in burst is because it only has 60 rounds in a Mag, but even with 19k DPS, it still has far more than status chance than the Soma can hope for.

 

So IMO it is the Braton Prime that needs a buff.

 

 

But can share why the specific hate on the Boltor Prime ?

Edited June 9, 2014 by fatpig84

[(PSN)The_One_Ares]

THIS KID< Let me put it like this most people that are at a high mastery rank suck as 15-16 have a idea on how good weapons are and even good setups. I think this is a prime example of some one not of a high rank and does not find the game fun or appealing in any way. This is also the prime example of a person trying to ruin the game for others and the community by putting his two sense in on a subject he should keep his nose out of simple as that. Also why would you complain about a gun that's very powerful in which it could come on handy and be useful !? Like I said this person who started this forum had no idea what he is talking about and is a person who ruins games for others. By the way who doesn't like the boltor prime!!!!!!!

This is what I think and I hope the little guy reads this and keeps his opinion to him self next time if it is stupid like this .

[Cursor]

True, the Spectra is a totally mystery to me; I even have a post up to get that thing buffed. They were supposed to scale in accordance to Mastery Rank, hence why the MK1 Braton is no contest for the Soma, being the higher mastery rank, and it's also why it does miff me why there are some oddballs out there.

 

Though it can be argued that those weapons dont remotely compare because the mastery rank system was supposed to be put up as a tier system, which, evidently, doesn't work as intended, at least not yet.

 

I'm also not sure what you mean? I wasn't advocating anything get nerfed at all! I just think there are better ways around it than simply going the easy route to lower the damage.

 

Spectra is not the only weapon where difficulty to get does not comport with strength. Marelok sits in research at rank 5. It's also, according to DPSframe, one of the most powerful weapons behind things such as Boltor Prime and Brakk. It beats Soma, in fact, and is startlingly more ammo efficient. It beats out every single weapon beneath it (with the possible exception of Angstrum), even at rank 4, and arguably all weapons above it as well (assuming these numbers are correct).

 

Brakk, while rare, can be gotten by chance with no significant effort. A new player could easily stumble upon the G3 and obtain a Brakk, which has no mastery requirement. Similarly, Brakk and Detron have identical methods of obtaining them, yet Brakk clocks at twice the damage.

 

The mastery system, or even time invested as a gauge, is an utterly broken system. There is no regularity to effort verses payoff for weapons in Warframe, and so, there's no justifying outliers such as Brakk or Boltor Prime.

 

And I wasn't saying you were suggesting nerfs, although I can't for the life of me understand the outright rejection of them. When something is obviously sitting outside of the bounds of what is reasonable, isn't it reasonable to simply bring it back into line?

 

Edit: And for the record, responding to Ares, I guess I don't like Boltor Prime. I'm not a fan of how it looks, I don't like high fire rate automatic weapons, and its popularity when considering its raw strength bothers me, because that more than likely means players are using it because of how obviously superior it is to almost everything else.

 

Edit Edit: And to Pig, to reiterate, I was saying that the degree to which Primes are superior to their base has been increasing, not that primes are getting linearly more powerful or using the Braton Prime as some sort of measurement of strength. The obvious objection to Boltor Prime, and let me be clear it is not hate, is that it's way way beyond the bounds of what we should be expecting, both purely regarding its stats and what it represents as Warframe ages.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Cursor

[fatpig84]

Edit Edit: And to Pig, to reiterate, I was saying that the degree to which Primes are superior to their base has been increasing, not that primes are getting linearly more powerful or using the Braton Prime as some sort of measurement of strength. The obvious objection to Boltor Prime, and let me be clear it is not hate, is that it's way way beyond the bounds of what we should be expecting, both purely regarding its stats and what it represents as Warframe ages.

 

Then... we buff the regular Boltor lol :p

[Cursor]

Then... we buff the regular Boltor lol :p

 

So that's it? Buff everything? What about low level planets? What happens to then when we don't have any weapons appropriate for them?

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

...All I'm asking for is to take the 50 Puncture Damage and reduce it to 35 Puncture Damage. Even with this change, it deals 10 more base damage than the Braton Prime, and beats it in every other field, except in reload speed.

 

Braton Prime has a 0.2 faster reload speed.

 

Other than that, Boltor Prime will still outclass it in every category, but won't be such an incredible outlier in the game, while still being a really solid rifle in the game.

This sounds reasonable to me and I like it, though I, like so many others have said in thread after thread after thread, would like to see the Braton Prime buffed, along with the other Bratons.

[Wolfstorm18]

Grakata, that rank 0 thing, can put out 20k burst DPS if built right.

 

Then... we buff the regular Boltor lol :p

 

So that's it? Buff everything? What about low level planets? What happens to then when we don't have any weapons appropriate for them?

 

Cant stop laughing with those comments. 

[Cursor]

Cant stop laughing with those comments. 

 

Care to explain the joke?

[taiiat]

why did i even click on this thread?

 

i knew what kind of blind powercrepe i would see, and clawing at getting as much of it as possible, even though a Developer shouldn't want players to want that.

[ShardsSuperior]

I think the travel speed should be decreased, as well as bolt drop. This would cement the weapon as a close-range weapon, leaving other, hitscan weapons (even if they have lower DPS) for mid and long range.

[Cursor]

I think the travel speed should be decreased, as well as bolt drop. This would cement the weapon as a close-range weapon, leaving other, hitscan weapons (even if they have lower DPS) for mid and long range.

 

Amusingly, they increased bolt projectile speed several patches ago because players didn't like the flight time. :P 

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/146580-update-1130/

Edited June 9, 2014 by Cursor

[BloodArmoredApostle]

why did i even click on this thread?

 

i knew what kind of blind powercrepe i would see, and clawing at getting as much of it as possible, even though a Developer shouldn't want players to want that.

We are all human...naturally we want power. Deny that and I would like to know what planet you came from. You don't take another job unless you are going to make more money (case and point. Unless there are other parameters that hinder your performance).

 

Gameplay must be rewarding...unlike some games that are realistic war based (everything is even across the board) which the difference in power in real life weapons is obvious. Get hit by a AK-47 lose a shoulder...get hit by a m-16 you just take bullets...which one is worse? (the balancing mindframe is subjective as only exists in peoples minds as a means to make it "Feel Fair" to everyone. Granted challenges must exist.)

 

And to OP...............No.

Edited June 9, 2014 by BloodArmoredApostle

[Warriorrogue]

IMO, the boltor prime is fine how it is.

However, your other mention, braton prime, needs a buff. You seem to have bit that slightly wrong, IMO.

[Detheroc]

It gets worse and worse. People adapting to the common opinion just to get more likes and to be part of the bigger group, cause they fear being flamed. This is the worst thing that can happen with those communities. People are feared to bring up their opinion, cause a few big names will come and shut them down, getting tons of followers.

[Cursor]

We are all human...naturally we want power. Deny that and I would like to know what planet you came from. You don't take another job unless you are going to make more money (case and point. Unless there are other parameters that hinder your performance).

 

Gameplay must be rewarding...unlike some games that are realistic war based (everything is even across the board) which the difference in power in real life weapons is obvious. Get hit by a AK-47 lose a shoulder...get hit by a m-16 you just take bullets...which one is worse? (the balancing mindframe is subjective as only exists in peoples minds as a means to make it "Feel Fair" to everyone. Granted challenges must exist.)

 

And to OP...............No.

 

Wow. I don't think you could have phrased that any more arrogantly.

 

Anyway, no. You're incorrect, sir. Even on the example you provided. Many people will take different jobs if they think they'd enjoy them more, if they have better hours, if the work load is lighter, if it suits them more. Not everyone, in fact I'd wager most people, do no do things purely because of the monetary reward or potential authority.

 

And gameplay can be rewarding without completely disregarding balance. In fact a balanced game is one of the most rewarding experiences, such as the long lived and startlingly well balanced Team Fortress 2. Balance has nothing at all to do with realism. Also, you're incorrect again in assuming that balance is purely subjective. Incomparables aside, simple numerical balancing can be performed, and Warframe certainly lacks that, having a handful of weapons that dramatically overtake every other one of the 130+ others in the game. And if you can't see how a power creep is cheap manipulation meant to obsolete your old gear and encourage people to spend money, I'm very sorry.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Cursor

[Garuger]

I love how you consider a weapon powerful because you only seen that (not that it is not) . I will tell you a secret there are other weapons that can do more damage than Boltor prime and held better than it with 4 forma i .Also if i spent hours ad hours levelling it up and spending plat for catalyst it will be a monster . A weapon is good but its true potential gets unlocked by lots of time and many forma and catalyst and when that is finished you are satisfied that you can melt anything . See the problem? you are just jealous that all the kids have an awesome 4 or even 5 forma boltor prime and you sit in the corner not having it and want to ruin all the other toys because you dont have it i have one word for that DEAL WITH IT :D

Edited June 9, 2014 by Garuger