Oberon's Role And Rework

[pikaMINDBOMB]

Let's delete this DEERFACE from the game.

[Vurtney]

Let's delete this DEERFACE from the game.

 

Whoa whoa now now. He needs love and he's getting it eventually. Yes, he's not as useful as he could be but let's not go and kick him from the game.

 

This is what he should be:

 

 

 

And this is what he is now:

 

Edited July 18, 2014 by Vurtney

[FoxFX]

Whoa whoa now now. He needs love and he's getting it eventually. Yes, he's not as useful as he could be but let's not go and kick him from the game.

 

This is what he should be:

 

 

 

And this is what he is now:

 

 

Interesting insight on Oberon

[MessersCohen]

Hallowed ground is the only one that needs changing imo. With maxed efficiency (that works inversely, thus having no negative effects on renewal), it costs under 25 energy, over 1000 damage with intensify. You can spam the S#&$ out of that! I tried hallowed ground once...never again 

[Vurtney]

Interesting insight on Oberon

Was supposed to be a metaphorical reference to his current situation, less insight. 

[FoxFX]

Was supposed to be a metaphorical reference to his current situation, less insight. 

still...interesting

[Varzy]

I don't believe Oberon needs any of his skills to be replaced, I think he serves as an excellent DPS/CC/Support hybrid in his own right, and just needs a few enhancements to really shine. Some thoughts I've had and others I've liked a lot are:

 

Smite: Damage boost, obviously. Knockdown and forced Radiation proc on main target, and stun (or even knockdown) with a decent Radiation proc chance on enemies hit by orbs.

-Speed up the orb speed and give them some targeting and you've got an ability that's useful at every level.

 

Hallowed Ground: Like Sayrn's Molt, heals procs and statuses to allies standing on it. This would seriously improve his role as a Supportive frame and might even make him a contender for a must-have frame in higher level play.

 

- Slow down enemy attack and movement speed by X% when they're standing on HG. The X slowdown amount scales with the number of Hallowed Grounds the enemy is standing on (Methinks 12.5~15% per HG). This is a really important aspect to add, to maximize CC, utility and damage from a HG cast.

 

- Increase range! I strongly disagree with making this a radial ability (Fireblast fills this role, we've got too many as is) but it definitely needs to be much wider and somewhat longer.

 

 

Renewal: Turn this into a toggleable ability.

--Increased Duration mods increase the heal per second. (Orbs remain, and allies don't get the benefit until they're touched by the orbs, to encourage players to stick by Oberon). Also, have it affect sentinels and kubrows too.

 

This would make his healing distinctly different from Trinity -- it'd be a passive regen in between fights rather than the in-the-fray style of field doctor that Trinity is a master of.

 

Reckoning: Very solid ability, don't have much to add. I do like this however:

 

1) Cause an extra shockwave that deals extra 250 damage something to surrounding targets : make it stronger as an offensive spell especially when used in a crowded area.

 

2) Applies a damage reduction or armor reduction to make shooting cc'd target better or to make Oberon better as a support tank.

 

or

 

3) For the sake of it, maybe make it possible to "force an additional drop" up to once upon crashing because I support Nekros x Oberon.

 

I really love that shockwave idea for Reckoning. An extra chip of damage in a localized area, making it even more effective in swarms.

 

 

Stepping away from that, an idea I had for Hallowed Ground was a 'peacemaker' effect.

-Enemies standing on 2 or more layers of Hallowed Ground are unable to attack.

Since casting multiple Hallowed Grounds are expensive (2 casts = 1 cast of Reckoning), there needs to be a good incentive to do so.

 

edit: Forgot to mention, he should absolutely get an armor buff, to about 155~200. His healing is focused on health, not shields, and his health/shields ratio reflects that, so he should be backed up by armor to match.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Varzy

[Star]

I like the idea of Hallowed Ground being buff/debuff to stand in.

[FoxFX]

I like the idea of Hallowed Ground being buff/debuff to stand in.

same

[quietcanary]

Smite is his worst ability both in usefulness and mechanics. A complete rework of hallowed ground into a stationary area or player aoe is most likely the best way to go. Renewal needs new aspect or better mechanics and reckoning needs to produce health orbs on hit or be moddable to make that viable since as of right now it doesn't really seem to matter one bit. 

[KingFar]

Oberon will never get a buff. They care to much about new things rather then old things.

[Varzy]

Oberon will never get a buff. They care to much about new things rather then old things.

They've confirmed in the latest Dev Stream that they'll be giving him an update once the dust settles on U14 stuff. I'd give it a few weeks.

[Temfist]

I'ma need to check out more of these. I like some of your suggestions, but I almost want more out of his other powers. He should feel like a bruiser/healer/tank, so the best way to do that is to give him moves that heal/sustain, direct damage and cause CC, and damage reduction/mitigation of some sort.

 

I want Smite to be his damage dishing CC move. I currently don't like it much at all, it doesn't feel that satisfying for what a name like "Smite" would suggest. I would rather it not shoot projectiles, but still be a hit scan move, maybe something like a single target version of Reckoning. It could be like a powerful beam of energy blasting down from above the target, knocking down everything nearby it (3/5/7/9 meters effected by range mods). and instead of causing "radiation" as a means of CC, it just ragdolls them all and causes a brief slow effect (1/1/2/2 seconds effected by duration mods). They could boost the damage of the ability too, so it's a strong CC AoE, good for nuking mobs (Like Pull, but not as big, and more damage, forcing them into the ground rather then pulling them toward you). The main target takes the most damage, so it can be used effectively on leader/larger enemies and still CC the rest of the mob (Freeze on frost needs a similar effect imo)

 

Renewal is ok, but there are a lot of ways it could be altered to make it less....unexpected. I think if the renewal had a visible element, maybe something like a energy fairy or butterfly with lotus symbol wings or something that floats around you when your effected by it, and have the ability unlimited range like Blessing, but I guess if DE wants to encourage people being nearby Oberon, they can keep the Renewal having to travel to players, and give his "Hollowed Ground" a toggle AoE Aura effect, possibly a damage reflection and armor buff that synergizes with him being near everyone.

 

Reckoning can really be changed....to like, anything.....anything other then force choke + force push. I'd like it if they went into Oberon's lore a bit with the whole "Fairy King" thing, like maybe his Ult is a global debuff and CC, that causes mass radiation proc and lowers enemies defenses and awareness. They could call it something cool like "Titania's Embrace" after Oberon's lore lol. It would synergize really well with Banshee Silence, Trinity's Blessing, Nyx Chaos, the list goes on. It'd do no damage, but it'd make all enemies players fight easier for it's duration. I dunno, there is a lot of options, I would just rather have something fitting, rather then some Jedi Force move that generates additional health orbs....cough*

Edited July 22, 2014 by Temphis

[FoxFX]

Oberon will never get a buff. They care to much about new things rather then old things.

Oberon will be changed. This forum is here to support and to reaffirm what Oberon's intended role is suppose to be.

[Rhekinos]

Combine Smite and Renewal? Damage the target and then renewal orbs will fly out. The orbs only insta heal and doesn't heal too much but enough. Something like 25 hp-ish.

 

Renewal can perhaps get a Link effect? The name might no longer fit but it works like an regenerative overheal like TF2 Medic's medigun. While linked, allies (both tenno and npc/companions) will receive a Heal over Time and a buff to max health. Having a link effect would mean that players have to be close to Oberon for the effect as someone suggest DE intended.

[Vurtney]

Someone mentioned changing Renewal into an aura mechanic. That would work if it:

1. has no range requirement.

2. Starts ticking immediately every second.

3. scales with duration and power mods (heals longer and larger healing ticks)

4. heals through damage (unlike the current Renewal which stops healing WHEN taking damage, garbage)

5. Fire and forget. It starts healing and heals for an XX duration. Oberon can use other abilities while the aura keeps ticking.

It would have synergy with Rejuvenation aura making it actually somewhat useful for Oberon. He would literally tank damage with regenerating health (depending how much it would actually heal per second including power mods) I would still want to see his armor being brought into tanking range (150+)

Edited July 23, 2014 by Vurtney

[FoxFX]

Someone mentioned changing Renewal into an aura mechanic. That would work if it:

1. has no range requirement.

2. Starts ticking immediately every second.

3. scales with duration and power mods (heals longer and larger healing ticks)

4. heals through damage (unlike the current Renewal which stops healing WHEN taking damage, garbage)

5. Fire and forget. It starts healing and heals for an XX duration. Oberon can use other abilities while the aura keeps ticking.

It would have synergy with Rejuvenation aura making it actually somewhat useful for Oberon. He would literally tank damage with regenerating health (depending how much it would actually heal per second including power mods) I would still want to see his armor being brought into tanking range (150+)

The idea of making Renewal into an Aura-type ability does seem worthwhile. But I'd like to hear on other players though on this one.

[Mazikeen]

In its current form, Renewal is a decent out-of-combat heal.

I mean that it can be used to restore health between fights, but in the heat of battle, under a rain of bullets, Renewal will hardly save anyone.

It's not that it's bad, it's just that it's a doctor's ability, taking care of wounded soldiers far from the frontline.

Maybe I'm just wrong, but I always imagined paladins to be on the frontline, providing support during the fight, not after.

As for a solution, the principle would be to make Oberon able to save someone under heavy fire.

First, it needs to be really fast, instant.

Then, it would need to give a few seconds for a player to get out of a S#&$ty situation. Many ways to do that:

- short duration shield... too close to Iron Skin

- damage reduction... it would be a bad Blessing

In the end, to get something only Oberon would have, I could suggest a short buff that makes miracles happen: allowing players to continue fighting with negative health. Players continue to take damage, but they just do not die. If, at the end of the buff, players have 1 health or more, they live; if not, they die normally.

The issue would be then balance. For that part:

- it should not be re-castable during the duration, to prevent infinite invulnerability

- it needs to be reactive, not preemptive, so, a duration of 4-5 seconds max

- it needs to have a max range, even if it's 50m, because of Narrow Minded

- it needs to heal faster (same health or more in these few seconds)

That way, players get a few seconds to get out of fire, disable the source of danger, chase life orbs from Reckoning, etc.

[KriegBringer]

After the Cicero Crisis Oberon was my First frame other then Excal. I immediately moved on just for the Renew so I could support teams mates and take out tough guys with my Dread bow. I soon learned that I had no Chance Against Corpus at higher levels all I could do was push them and try to melee (before 2.0) or headshot with my dread. Hallowed ground is mostly useless and does not Scale well.. Going back with almost 500 hours and mods...Flow and streamline with Smite Is VERY use full with skill. Also reckoning is okay but only for CC or if your hanging out in that area. Oberon seems to fill a Very specific role but other's do it better and against other factions as well. they either need to make him excel at grineer combat or make It Obvious that some frames are for beginners and you should trade up for trinity ASAP...But I dont feel thats quite the case since Trinity is Godlike While Oberon is just hard to kill. Unless you enjoy playing as him then by all means keep him I play low lvl Earth missions all the time but I always think I might as well have brought Nekros for extra drops..especially now with Kubarow mods. CC lasts longer & both of their 1's are great for utility but nekros does impact dmg.. much more balanced across factions.

[FoxFX]

After the Cicero Crisis Oberon was my First frame other then Excal. I immediately moved on just for the Renew so I could support teams mates and take out tough guys with my Dread bow. I soon learned that I had no Chance Against Corpus at higher levels all I could do was push them and try to melee (before 2.0) or headshot with my dread. Hallowed ground is mostly useless and does not Scale well.. Going back with almost 500 hours and mods...Flow and streamline with Smite Is VERY use full with skill. Also reckoning is okay but only for CC or if your hanging out in that area. Oberon seems to fill a Very specific role but other's do it better and against other factions as well. they either need to make him excel at grineer combat or make It Obvious that some frames are for beginners and you should trade up for trinity ASAP...But I dont feel thats quite the case since Trinity is Godlike While Oberon is just hard to kill. Unless you enjoy playing as him then by all means keep him I play low lvl Earth missions all the time but I always think I might as well have brought Nekros for extra drops..especially now with Kubarow mods. CC lasts longer & both of their 1's are great for utility but nekros does impact dmg.. much more balanced across factions.

 Can you specify which role Oberon appears to take in now in your experience?

[FoxFX]

In its current form, Renewal is a decent out-of-combat heal.

I mean that it can be used to restore health between fights, but in the heat of battle, under a rain of bullets, Renewal will hardly save anyone.

It's not that it's bad, it's just that it's a doctor's ability, taking care of wounded soldiers far from the frontline.

Maybe I'm just wrong, but I always imagined paladins to be on the frontline, providing support during the fight, not after.

As for a solution, the principle would be to make Oberon able to save someone under heavy fire.

First, it needs to be really fast, instant.

Then, it would need to give a few seconds for a player to get out of a S#&$ty situation. Many ways to do that:

- short duration shield... too close to Iron Skin

- damage reduction... it would be a bad Blessing

In the end, to get something only Oberon would have, I could suggest a short buff that makes miracles happen: allowing players to continue fighting with negative health. Players continue to take damage, but they just do not die. If, at the end of the buff, players have 1 health or more, they live; if not, they die normally.

The issue would be then balance. For that part:

- it should not be re-castable during the duration, to prevent infinite invulnerability

- it needs to be reactive, not preemptive, so, a duration of 4-5 seconds max

- it needs to have a max range, even if it's 50m, because of Narrow Minded

- it needs to heal faster (same health or more in these few seconds)

That way, players get a few seconds to get out of fire, disable the source of danger, chase life orbs from Reckoning, etc.

True, Renewal's true worth is best outside of battle. I guess the only reasonable buff required would be an increase of healing.

 

But any thoughts on the specific role Oberon is suppose to play in Warframe?

[BlueSabre]

Oberons renewel shout translate health loss to armor gain plus heal booom

[(PSN)oracle-ryuu]

i talked about this on another thread but there are some good ideas here too! i like the idea of Smite applying radiation via the orbs, but the orbs still need to track targets. other than that, heres my breakdown of how the abilities could be reworked.

 

-----------------------------

ABILITY 1: SMITE

 

Whats wrong with this power? well for one its useless almost right off the bat, let alone at later levels. all it does is some moderate damage to one target,  and send out non-tracking orbs that may-or may not, slightly inconvenience other enemies. ow can it be made better? i know what you're all thinking, but no.. its not a damage buff. but tracking orbs would help it be better. instead what we really want here is UTILITY, a function that makes it useful in ALL situations. something like a debuff or a stun. For smite, allowing the additional orbs to home in on targets and detonate on impact, causing moderate damage and an AOE/Knockdown/stun, would be extremely practical, especially when enemies get tougher. remember damage isn't key here, seeing as most damage abilities fall off later anyways. giving smite these utilities would help Oberon's survivability in large group situations by letting him control the mobs around him, which benefits everyone really.

 

Ability 2: HALLOWED GROUND

 

now this one is an interesting idea, but again, minor damage over time is barely useful, though it does work relatively well early on. what can make this one better? still not damage...again think UTILITY! but first , what does hallowed ground do? it creates a field of holy fire/energy on the ground that damages enemies who stand in it. pretty straightforward, and it sounds good on paper, but in practice, ....well, lets put it this way. how useful is a small patch on the ground in a fast pace space ninja game where the enemies rarely decide to stay put for very long and probably end up getting killed before they even have the chance to step on your holy patch? exactly. don't misunderstand, HALLOWED GROUND STILL HAS APPLICATIONS! especially as it can be spammed! you can literally lay down as many as you want at a time,(I am not sure if this compiles the damage though). this really shines in defense missions or bottleneck points. but even then, the  enemies won't be standing there for long.and receiving two of three ticks of damage ain't gonna ruin any Grineers day. solution? ADD LONG LASTING EFFECTS! a proc for the ability would be GREAT! something like radiation, which would confuse enemies and turn them against each other! this would make it a great nix-esque trap. OR perhaps the field trap can slow enemies the stand on it down, forcing them to stay on the patch longer and receive more damage. this would help it TRULY become a bottleneck trap! the only other thing i could suggest for it at the moment is that perhaps allies that stand in the trap receive a long lasting buff, or heal while in it, but maybe we should save that for something else....lets say...RENEWAL?

 

Ability 3: RENEWAL

 

THIS SORELY NEED A BUFF! theres no other way to put it! currently this heals for anywhere from "not a lot" to " Darnit, I died before it could help me!" so, lets talk buffs. first off all the base heal time and how much it heals for. heals for 100 health over 15 seconds....ok that nice i guess for beginners.. lets take it to maxed. 200 health  over 10 seconds? .....ok lets face....how much is 200 health end game....and over ten seconds? what help is that? you might as well just pop a team health restore and be done with it! this needs to be rearranged so that its not just "slightly helpful"...which is pushing it at any time unless you're out of combat, and who's gonna wait around for tens seconds to be healed for only 200 health? NOT ME I CAN TELL YAH THAT MUCH! how can we make it better? how does it actually work? well, lets say you increased power strength. then it would heal for more health over the same amount of time. increasing durability will actually LESSEN the time it takes to heal for the same amount. thats...a little weird...SO! lets change it! the same basic concepts will apply except they're be rearranged, so power strength will increase the amount of health healed, but by a "per second" basis, not and "overall" basis. next, duration should actually just make it last longer, like you would think it would. this means that power strength means more health for short term, and duration would mean the same per second health for longer, put them together, a lot more health, a lot faster, a lot longer. still, something is missing, its still not going to be terribly effective if your enemies are going to shoot you in the face and you take any (or more) damage than you heal for. INTRODUCING THE BUFF! instead of just healing, this could add an armor buff! or a speed buff! .....OR BOTH! ..well...maybe just one, and if i had to choose one it would be Armor, leave the speed buff to Volt. this would help Oberon be the tanky healer he WAS PROMISED TO BE. seriously his armor is literally average, but an armor buff could fix that! maybe at max rank, renewal can add 50% of Oberon's current armor to all affected allies...yes including himself. I'm not going to rag on the orb travel speed too much.....TOO much. there does need to be a balance after all. but maybe make it faster than loki at least? that way it will EVENTUALLY get there. finally, the application of Renewal. why do i need to be hurt in order for this to work? i need to be able to PRE-EMPTIVELY apply this ability, not get hurt, realize im hurt, then spend 2 seconds taking damage while casting a spell thats going to heal me for the first hits a took...in TEN SECONDS. the ability should be applied, whether or not you have taken damage, especially if you add the armor buff as suggested, because who wants to get hurt to apply a buff that is supposed to help PREVENT you from getting hurt! RAISE YOUR HANDS!!! anyways, onto the final volley.

 

ABILITY 4: RECKONING

 

now...this ability is...actually ok? yeah, it really DOESN'T need to be changed.....BUT! here are some possible changes since we're at it anyways. for one, the health orbs. ok, i get this is a primarily offensive ability, but if your gonna give it a healing aspect, them maybe you make it heal for a percentage of the damage done? but it would only heal allies within the range of the enemies being damaged. so to make it clear, reckoning still smacks people down for a slam dunk. but now, allies, (and the casting oberon) who are in range of the enemies being damaged, will received a percentage of the damage dealt as health. that means oberon WOULD NOT receive  health from all the damaged enemies, only enemies that are close enough to him when he casts it (cause lets be fair, oberon needs a buff, but not THAT big a buff). it IS a little complex, but to give him a percentage of damage dealt from ALL the enemies? trust me when i say there would be a surplus of max efficiency, max ranged oberons out there, spamming away, and thats only really fun for the one spamming. if not that, then maybe health orbs drop based on how much damage is done, and not depending on whether or not the enemy dies, (and even then its only a chance).

 

so thats my rant/suggestion. perhaps in terms of base stats they could give him 90 armor but I'm not going to harp on that idea. i'd like to know what you guys think, and if you like it maybe we could get Digital Extremes to consider some, if not all, the changes.

----------------------------

[FoxFX]

Alot of what I've been reading seems to steer toward NOT removing Reckoning for some defensive support. I can only assume my fears about this

[Moderius]

Everything that's wrong with the other Oberon thread is wrong with this one, too. But in a lesser degree, at least. But you cannot replace abilities and hope that balance will fall in the same place. With the existing abilities, we know where the issues are, and what can be changed. But you switch an ability and there's a new variable in balance and concept.

 

Again, I will refer you to the history of changes made by DE. They are all in careful, measured degrees. The scaling of Molecular Prime. The execution of Blade Storm. Hysteria's handling. Iron Skin's change from DR to a set amount of blocked damage. Energy Vampire and Blessing's changes. Small changes and tweaks that affect interaction. Replacing skills wholesale and changing others all at once won't happen.

 

You need to make the biggest impact with the smallest change. That's careful design.