Lore Inconsistency?

[VioDuskar]

  That is cool, but as the player you basically are doing what the, single Tenno theory suggest. Embodying the different roles, it is just more literal in the context of the Tenno. I mean do men get all disturbed playing Laura Croft? Why is it so hard to take the next step and imagine a being that transcends gender roles, like Letter13 describes?

Well. on-topic. Playing as multiple tenno explains all this much better than any other method.

hoping to see all my frames in my players-ship, and not on a hanger. I want to see my tenno walking around helping me. tenno are team players.

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

@MoRockerPDX its not that I think the have personalities I think the ones in MY frames do I don't have a problem playing the opposite gender in fact I rather be the opposite that's why its so easy to Roleplay I can do either  

 

  Cool, cool, cool, cool.

 

Well. on-topic. Playing as multiple tenno explains all this much better than any other method.

hoping to see all my frames in my players-ship, and not on a hanger. I want to see my tenno walking around helping me. tenno are team players.

 

  Focus system was the number one reason why multiple Tenno didn't work. I have been reading post of people claiming that it has been scrapped, but I don't know when this, supposed, scrapping took place. If it was resent and we assume it changes to something that doesn't rely on a single entity as the source of the focus levels, then a multi-tenno concept is stronger. However the mastery level system alone, along with a singular entity focus system suggest the player is a single Tenno. Otherwise these game mechanics are somehow associating with a desperate number of, or host of Tenno, disembodied from any one particular individual Tenno in the players possession. Hence, the paradox. That is why, until DE says something to reverse what [DE]Steve said about, the player being a singular Tenno (see links in above post) I will assume that mastery rank and focus system apply to the players, singular Tenno. As such, that Tenno must through some method control the many frames in its possession, and that means covering different genders and body types.

  I know this disrupts some peoples sense of immersion, and ideas about seeing their frames socialize together, and that is understandable. Who knows, maybe that is still possible. Maybe, the original Tenno, when exposed to the void left a part of themselves in the void, and future Tenno just channel these original Tenno avatars. That way you could have a bunch of Tenno on your ship, and game mechanics wise you, the player, are the singular disembodied original Tenno avatar in the void.

 

 Oh and more on topic, I think that introduction of the TC virus infecting the AI robots should have been a soft retcon, and now it can still be retconned, just more of a hard retcon now. And, yes it could be Alad V's manipulations that made this possible, but I find it hard to swallow the TECHNOcyte virus only now, after millennia just became capable of infecting robot AI.

Edited June 20, 2014 by (PS4)MoRockaPDX

[Grascen]

Infecting a Wall, is not the same as infecting a robot and taking over it.

 

Gravemind and Cortana from Halo 2 and 3.

[VioDuskar]

  -snip-

 

screw it bro, plot twist, ima mothafuggin brain slug that gets the MR, gets the focus, gets all the singular stuffs, and then when i need a frame, I slide into the tenno's ear and grab on his/her brain.

 

slugs like animorphs.

snakes like stargate.

 

IM A LEECH. I INFEST TENNO. I GET MR AND FOCUS. WHAT A TWIST!

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

screw it bro, plot twist, ima mothafuggin brain slug that gets the MR, gets the focus, gets all the singular stuffs, and then when i need a frame, I slide into the tenno's ear and grab on his/her brain.

 

slugs like animorphs.

snakes like stargate.

 

IM A LEECH. I INFEST TENNO. I GET MR AND FOCUS. WHAT A TWIST!

 

 

  I didn't type the word, "snip", so I don't know where that came from. And as the game stands, you are free to imagine how it works in anyway you like. Even after the lore becomes definitive you are free to accept/reject whatever you like. More power to you. please don't hit me :)

Edited June 20, 2014 by (PS4)MoRockaPDX

[VioDuskar]

  I did type the word, "snip", so I know where that came from.

 

IDK, maybe it was your wall of text post. but, see what i did there?

 

anyway, when explanations come to the forefront we'll see what happens

[PixalatedVortex]

if that was a wall what do you see a page of a book as ....

[VioDuskar]

if that was a wall what do you see a page of a book as ....

chloroform

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

if that was a wall what do you see a page of a book as ....

 

 

chloroform

 

  Nice

 

  To be honest, I bring up the singular Tenno/multiple Tenno subject every time I see people making statements that cross it. So much so, that I wouldn't be surprised if [DE]Steve weighed in just to get me to stop quoting him, and I wouldn't blame him for a second. I think DE has put itself in a very challenging position, being a f2p game still in early development. Having people interpreting and misinterpreting what is said and not said must be difficult. 

Edited June 20, 2014 by (PS4)MoRockaPDX

[Warriorrogue]

  Nice

 

  To be honest, I bring up the singular Tenno/multiple Tenno subject every time I see people making statements that cross it. So much so, that I wouldn't be surprised if [DE]Steve weighed in just to get me to stop quoting him, and I wouldn't blame him for a second. I think DE has put itself in a very challenging position, being a f2p game still in early development. Having people interpreting and misinterpreting what is said and not said must be difficult. 

I could not agree more.

Hopefully, this matter will be cleared up at some point. I'm sticking with polytenno, though.

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

I could not agree more.

Hopefully, this matter will be cleared up at some point. I'm sticking with polytenno, though.

 

  PolyTenno has a nice ring to it. MonoTenno, not so much. TennoPrime, maybe.

[Flamingauss]

It's no differnt than the Flood in Halo...just makes sphincters everywhere on the ship, make a lot of Anal Cysts to pop and you're good to go.

[Llyssa]

Hm. Very strange tangents people bring up. On "how many tenno", nobody mentions the Dax thing from Star Trek. Curious.

It's been noted that tenno are purposely vague so that they can be whatever it is we want them to be.

 

Also, I'd note, on "vacuum" effects, that's a mighty big assumption that we're working in a "vacuum". There's nothing saying explicitly that we haven't been swallowed by a nebula(which, incidentally, the IRL galaxy we live in is).

 

If the text meant "infestation 2.0: now with haxx0rz skillz", okay, I guess that works, but it was worded very poorly.

 

Also, why the person who says "I DO NOT CARE FOR LORE!" is even wasting anyone's time on this thread is beyond me.

[Lost_Cartographer]

I'm going to go on believing each Tenno is an individual in a frame, because frankly there's really nothing to suggest otherwise besides a vague quote that is entirely subject to personal interpretation.  "What you are, the tenno."  "Tenno" is used as a plural too you know...  At best, there's Excalibur, Tribal/immortal Excalibur, and Excalibur Prime, which could very well be just the first suit before it was so damaged beyond repair he had to move on to the suit we see today.  Why?  You can't convince me Elsword and Rena are the same soul swapping bodies (Elsword is an F2P side scroller.)  That's just one example of a game that uses multiple characters the player can switch between.  Warframe has no proof of being anything different.

 

As for the topic, the original technocyte of Dark Sector was more nanomachine in nature if I recall.  What we see in Warframe is a modified virus left over from a war waged a long time ago.  Until now, all of the technocyte we've seen were just pods growing on surfaces within ships and facilities.  Now, it's actually becoming the ship.  As for Alad V, Jupiter WAS a world with many infested Corpus ships in its atmosphere.  I wonder if it would be too much to assume the core of this gas giant might be home to the infested, or if he simply fell onto an infested ship the Tenno missed.  Considering he's back, we have to assume he was tossed out the window by Mag, not merely gunned down by a Rhino with a Soma.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Littleman88

[AM-Bunny]

The whole polytenno deal is confusing for me too.

 

I think it was during the red veil event, one of lotus' mails mentioned that I had "mastered many warframes", which seems to imply that I am using more than one.

 

However, our space magic is *not* a power that we get from our warframes. It was mentioned that Vor has dismantled warframes, and found no source within it for out powers. Therefore, our space magic comes from us, the tenno, and the warframe is something of a conduit more likely.

 

Isn't it then strange that our innate space magic changes so drastically from frame to frame? Do all tenno have all powers? This is especially awkward with Valkyr, whose powers come from her post-traumatic-stress-disorder and unbridled rage. 

[kimahn]

we re playing characters. yeah, this is not fitting, yeah, everybody hates that, and yes, it totally screws the immersion. i very heavily doubt this concept will stay forever,because for a rpg, this is extremely stupid.

 

plus, it brings more male/female disparities rather than equality.

 

eventually at a point we will get the option to really play a tenno, even without armour oO and enter a nanoforge to get more or less modified. it could go to switching frame to more extreme choices such as switching sex (for plat ?) i suppose, if it pleases people.

 

i'm a male, i feel good about it, slapping my codpiece around makes the game even better. for a game that calls our primal brain i find this justified. i hope that with frames that will soon cost the equivalent of 30euros, we ll get the 2 genders.

 

who knows.

[MagpieOAO]

Imo we play a team. The player is simply there for the player's sake, in essence you are observing the tenno. The player doesn't exist in the game world. If anything you might be an AI like the lotus, directing and coordinating the Tenno. The lotus is, after all, referenced as an organization. 

 

That aside, how are there multiple frames if they are all specific individuals? On top of that, multiple primes, if they are the first of their kind? Multiple Valkyr's is the biggest mind****.

The only thing I could possibly think to explain it is that the primes are not unique, but rather the first frames created to emulate the original Tenno who was exposed to the void and ended up as such. After thousands of years, other tenno may have been exposed under conditions which were annotated in attempts to replicate the result, but ended in potentially weaker variations, never resulting in one quite as powerful as the original.

 

The various "Replicates" were organized into schools to hone their skills, which was worked into a science and directed by the original tenno, and overseen by the primes. 

 

It's pretty out there, but imo more consistent with the lore than the player actually being a universal indavidual within the universe that can swap frames which are supposedly conduits for power, not a source itself.

[NevanChambers]

even if Steve said that I want to assume that we play as multiple Tenno

I do too so I keep this in mind. The statement quoted here was made about the focus system. In the answer he kind of stumbled over the wording (doesn't really come through in read quotes) when he said your Tenno. In subsequent references to the system they have replaced his "Tenno" with "account". It may be grasping at straws and I'll admit I was hunting for something like that but I did find what I was hunting for.

Edited June 20, 2014 by NevanChambers

[Joyfulmama]

sigh

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

  Had to sleep and watch the new devstream, so I've fallen behind.

 

 

Hm. Very strange tangents people bring up. On "how many tenno", nobody mentions the Dax thing from Star Trek. Curious.

It's been noted that tenno are purposely vague so that they can be whatever it is we want them to be.

 

Also, I'd note, on "vacuum" effects, that's a mighty big assumption that we're working in a "vacuum". There's nothing saying explicitly that we haven't been swallowed by a nebula(which, incidentally, the IRL galaxy we live in is).

 

If the text meant "infestation 2.0: now with haxx0rz skillz", okay, I guess that works, but it was worded very poorly.

 

Also, why the person who says "I DO NOT CARE FOR LORE!" is even wasting anyone's time on this thread is beyond me.

 

  Star Trek always explored post/trans human subjects in the most shallow of ways. Data for example barely scratched the surface of the nature of AI and humanity. However, it is a good reference.

 

I'm going to go on believing each Tenno is an individual in a frame, because frankly there's really nothing to suggest otherwise besides a vague quote that is entirely subject to personal interpretation.  "What you are, the tenno."  "Tenno" is used as a plural too you know...  At best, there's Excalibur, Tribal/immortal Excalibur, and Excalibur Prime, which could very well be just the first suit before it was so damaged beyond repair he had to move on to the suit we see today.  Why?  You can't convince me Elsword and Rena are the same soul swapping bodies (Elsword is an F2P side scroller.)  That's just one example of a game that uses multiple characters the player can switch between.  Warframe has no proof of being anything different.

 

As for the topic, the original technocyte of Dark Sector was more nanomachine in nature if I recall.  What we see in Warframe is a modified virus left over from a war waged a long time ago.  Until now, all of the technocyte we've seen were just pods growing on surfaces within ships and facilities.  Now, it's actually becoming the ship.  As for Alad V, Jupiter WAS a world with many infested Corpus ships in its atmosphere.  I wonder if it would be too much to assume the core of this gas giant might be home to the infested, or if he simply fell onto an infested ship the Tenno missed.  Considering he's back, we have to assume he was tossed out the window by Mag, not merely gunned down by a Rhino with a Soma.

 

  Nothing to suggest otherwise? Focus system, unless it is reworked, applies across multiple desperate individual frames, implying a singular source for the experience. Speaking of experience, there is the master rank system that is the aggregate of experience from all your frames and gears pooled into a singular place. The question is, how does this singular implication relate to the multitude of frames at a players disposal. 

  I am not saying this is, in fact, the way things are in Warframe, just that there is evidence to suggest a singular Tenno theory, and some method for controlling multiple frames. At the moment I find it just as valid as a polytenno theory. You are of course free to see it as you wish, even if DE makes some version official, whatever that may be.

 

The whole polytenno deal is confusing for me too.

 

I think it was during the red veil event, one of lotus' mails mentioned that I had "mastered many warframes", which seems to imply that I am using more than one.

 

However, our space magic is *not* a power that we get from our warframes. It was mentioned that Vor has dismantled warframes, and found no source within it for out powers. Therefore, our space magic comes from us, the tenno, and the warframe is something of a conduit more likely.

 

Isn't it then strange that our innate space magic changes so drastically from frame to frame? Do all tenno have all powers? This is especially awkward with Valkyr, whose powers come from her post-traumatic-stress-disorder and unbridled rage. 

 

  Good point.

 

we re playing characters. yeah, this is not fitting, yeah, everybody hates that, and yes, it totally screws the immersion. i very heavily doubt this concept will stay forever,because for a rpg, this is extremely stupid.

 

plus, it brings more male/female disparities rather than equality.

 

eventually at a point we will get the option to really play a tenno, even without armour oO and enter a nanoforge to get more or less modified. it could go to switching frame to more extreme choices such as switching sex (for plat ?) i suppose, if it pleases people.

 

i'm a male, i feel good about it, slapping my codpiece around makes the game even better. for a game that calls our primal brain i find this justified. i hope that with frames that will soon cost the equivalent of 30euros, we ll get the 2 genders.

 

who knows.

 

  Your third paragraph is cool, and I agree, I want to see my unsuited Tenno roaming around the player ship. Kinda like Shepard, form Mass Effect, rolling around the Normandy in a uniform, instead of combat gear. Just would be cool. As for the last point, more power to you.

 

Imo we play a team. The player is simply there for the player's sake, in essence you are observing the tenno. The player doesn't exist in the game world. If anything you might be an AI like the lotus, directing and coordinating the Tenno. The lotus is, after all, referenced as an organization. 

 

That aside, how are there multiple frames if they are all specific individuals? On top of that, multiple primes, if they are the first of their kind? Multiple Valkyr's is the biggest mind****.

The only thing I could possibly think to explain it is that the primes are not unique, but rather the first frames created to emulate the original Tenno who was exposed to the void and ended up as such. After thousands of years, other tenno may have been exposed under conditions which were annotated in attempts to replicate the result, but ended in potentially weaker variations, never resulting in one quite as powerful as the original.

 

The various "Replicates" were organized into schools to hone their skills, which was worked into a science and directed by the original tenno, and overseen by the primes. 

 

It's pretty out there, but imo more consistent with the lore than the player actually being a universal indavidual within the universe that can swap frames which are supposedly conduits for power, not a source itself.

 

  Yeah, a common theory is that the frames are archetypes, like models of jet fighters, there can be variants but a F-16 is a F-16. Change to much and it is no longer that model. The power the Tenno channels expresses itself differently based on the frame they where, just like the combat characteristics of a particular model jet fighter are unique to that model. To be fair differences in jets are moderate, but I hope you get my point.

 

  In conclusion, Unless DE has changed the relationship between the players association with the character and explains the relationship with Mastery Rank and Focus System, I will continue to think about the possibility that the player is a singular Tenno that benefits from the aggregate of experience from the multitude of frames it, through some method, controls and the gear it uses. 

  I also endorse this TennoPrime theory because it is more post/trans human and therefore more interesting and unique to me. For a game that has such unique and different art and design, it would be refreshing if it also could explore more interesting character development. 

  That does not have to be something that everyone has to, or will, agree with, and that is fine. I suspect that is the primary reason that DE is so reluctant to be clear on the matter. I'm saddened by the lack of imagination in the public space, but I understand DE's need to be accessible and successful. So, whatever happens, I hope DE can continue to make a great game, and just maybe push the boundaries of science fiction story telling just a bit.

Edited June 20, 2014 by (PS4)MoRockaPDX