Why Are Accessories So Useless?

[BloodArmoredApostle]

Can we let this thread die already? DE already removed stats from helmets, and confirmed they will never be returning for anything armor included.

 

Cosmetics are cosmetic.

 

/thread

"Cosmetics are cosmetics" was never stated in any dev stream. They said they would like to keep cosmetics without stats, but DE even suggested the community come up with a way to implement the stats and make a suggestion 

 

Your statement is false. It is not that it wont ever come back or be implemented, because that would present a whole other problem to the equation of the game.

 

You mean to tell me a new player can only acquire a stat helmet by trading plat? (which 9 times out of 10 will be the case unless someone just lands it lucky)

 

So, the return of stat helmets is inevitable or the game wouldn't have the fair element of everything being attainable without plat. So, your statement is moot as well. 

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

Your words "balance" are subjective and is such due to everyone has their own suggestion of balance. Armor isn't armor, they should rename it then. I doubt anyone would put on flak armor unless it provided some benefit other than a "look cool" feel even though vs someone that doesn't have access to flak jacket armor is at a disadvantage.

 

Yea, I pretty sure we all understand Warframe isn't a standard RPG. There are few games that actually have what warframe presents, but seems the gaming community is used to "It makes me look bad" or whatever they can nick pick to death to whine about without applying common knowledge to the situation. I am not saying however that the Warframe Community doesn't have common knowledge. I am saying that it is sad to see a game that has the lore and basis for these rules to exist and were implemented, but due to the sheer level of complaints and "other" concerns. Things made a unnecessary change.

 

 

Take your own advice and don't create one yourself. Failing to understand that balance is subjective is fatal to software creation.

 

 

>snip<

 

First off, before I say anything else;  I'm just going to outright apologize for the harsh nature of that post.  The part where the one I quoted effectively said "people who want balance won't be tolerated" kind of set me off.  Because at the end of the day, game's require balance.  Though I never said you shouldn't design a game, just that one guy, for the already stated reason.

 

Everyone indeed does have an opinion, however there are definitely people who are wrong.  In a technical sense, yeah, everything is subjective, but a baseline still needs to be set and henceforth adhered to when dealing with something.  If you just let balance be "subjective" for everyone then you won't really ever achieve balance.  Long before they removed the stats from the helms DE themselves quit putting stats on helms.  It was pretty obvious that, with that move, they came to the conclusion that stats on cosmetics wasn't part of their game's balance.  To be honest, I never expected them to go back and removed the old stat helmets, so I was pretty shocked when they did.  Granted, it wasn't a full remove but what can you do?

 

As per the part I underlined;  What lore basis did the stat helmets have?  Serious question here, no sarcasm.  The EOS and Daedalus armors don't, to my knowledge, have any lore to them whatsoever.  They were designed, from the ground up, just to make one look "cool".  I'm willing to bet that they went with calling it armor because it was easier than coming up with something less generic than accessories or something.  That being said most of the stat helms were implemented long before I started looking into this game, so if there was some lore to it ways back it easily could've slipped by me.  Having lore reasons for them does justify their statistical gains completely so I seriously want to know about that point.

 

But, on that same notion, basically all of the Syandanas that I know of have no lore tied to them beyond a snippet like "worn by high ranking Tenno"  Which... well clearly =/= stats by any reasonable conclusion.

 

Anyways, a key part of good game design is to have meaningful choices.  Tying these bonuses to the armors gives you two choices;

Use the armor and get a stat boost.

Go away lesser unarmored being.

 

And that's it.  Even as much as it is self gimping and weakening to enter a mission without a primary/sidearm/melee weapon in whichever combination, doing so has an actual purpose.  Gain more from passively gained affinity by carrying less stuff, as divided amongst them.

 

More stats are good, and looks can go jump off a bridge when efficiency is key as far as I'm concerned (I don't like looking like a submarine, but damned if I won't choose to), but even the old stat helms were horribly poorly implemented.  Many frames had either 1 reasonable choice, or no reasonable choices.  The stat helmets were some of the most un-thought through stat changes I've ever seen, with a small handful of frames having clear and noticeable gains, and others having useless junk.

 

I mean hek, any of the efficiency helmets were worth 3 ranks of Streamline by themselves.  That's just absurd, it's more than half of an R5 mod on your head.  Whereas other heads got shafted like the utterly useless Gambit Vauban helm.  If such trends are to be expected should the accessories be given stats, it'll just be a series of clear cut winners versus junk.  All it will be, is non-customizable obvious picks with the rest being trash.

 

AKA, not meaningful choice.  Just small hard buffs without customization.

Edited June 28, 2014 by (PS4)Bobtm0

[neKroMancer]

While the topic has been discussed to death and the fate of arcane helmet is plainly self-explanatory, I will add some of my thought here.

Personally, I think the problem with stat being on the accessory (or attachment if you're trying to nitpick the word) is that players are forced into certain actions that are unpleasant.

1. They need accessory/attachment to reach full potential. This is quite important since Warframe is the game that relies on optimization to reach higher level for more loot from endless missions. The result of adding stat on a single piece of accessory is that players who have it equipped will have a slight edge over those who don't have it of choose not to equip it due to aesthetic preference.

2. Players are forced to buy or use trade to gain platinum to gain said optimization. This is why the process is in itself a P2W scenario. Player who buy and use it will be able to reach higher level than those who doesn't. Gaining more credit, experience, and mods.

Many solutions have been posted and these are what I think

1. Adding accessory/attachment to the rare alert rotation isn't solving anything. It will lead to another problem about alert RNG and timezone-related issue. Making it 24 hours alert will kill the reason to sell the part completely since almost all of us will have it. Remember, we only need one of them.

2. The entire process of looking fabulous while attaining best optimization is to use Blizzard's method. Transmogrification and dye.

- you can choose another appearance for your cosmetic and override the current look while keeping the stat.

- Adding invisible dye (or color option) to remove the appearance of attachment from the frame/weapon while keeping the stat it grants.

[Zaresin]

Thank you, at least somebody knows how cosmetics work. I remember this one time I got really upset because i tried on a bracelet I really liked and it didn't make me move faster when I walked around the counter.

I was more upset it didn't pay for itself.

[grillv20]

Your words "balance" are subjective and is such due to everyone has their own suggestion of balance. Armor isn't armor, they should rename it then. I doubt anyone would put on flak armor unless it provided some benefit other than a "look cool" feel even though vs someone that doesn't have access to flak jacket armor is at a disadvantage.

 

Yea, I pretty sure we all understand Warframe isn't a standard RPG. There are few games that actually have what warframe presents, but seems the gaming community is used to "It makes me look bad" or whatever they can nick pick to death to whine about without applying common knowledge to the situation. I am not saying however that the Warframe Community doesn't have common knowledge. I am saying that it is sad to see a game that has the lore and basis for these rules to exist and were implemented, but due to the sheer level of complaints and "other" concerns. Things made a unnecessary change.

 

 

Take your own advice and don't create one yourself. Failing to understand that balance is subjective is fatal to software creation.

 

 

 

^This right here. The Warframe Community voted and took away a whole level of gameplay because "They don't feel like they look good enough". This is absolutely absurd how that can take precedence over a level of customization in a game. There are other ways to address this rather than the solution of always "subtracting" content from a game. When this game ends up a vanilla FPS due to too much input and "subtraction" then I will watch the forums to see where the community heads. Subtraction in some cases is needed like the Acrid balancing which could still use a buff adjustment (just slightly even though I am not a user of the weapon myself). 

 

 

Dude, they were added to the alert drop tables and tradable. Your point is moot.

 

 

Correct, that stability is important, but the truth we lost a level of gameplay that wasn't broken due to "opinion" stifles me.

 

 

you don't have to tell me about that stuff. I got all the arcane helmets a long long long time ago lol

[Zaresin]

Funny thing....DE said when they took out the stat helms from the store and the alerts that while they are making the tradable they are not ruling out other actions in regards to stat helms. Soooo.....my question do you want to *@##&#036; and moan trying to make this a pay to win game completely as DE has made it a dead set against stance on to the point they remove even the arcane helms as well? I get that many of you are new to the game but to be honest, you need to be thankful for what you have as this game is still in beta and anything can be removed at any time as it has happened before. Asking for something that DE has been dead set against for the longest time and made specific steps to move beyond is just asinine.

Be careful what you wish for kids, you may get your wish just not how you imagined as they can just remove stat helms completely to solve this issue.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Zaresin

[VoidWraith]

Custom armor sets should have base stats added to your Warframe instead of being strictly cosmetic. Same goes for Syandanas and Sugatra. I want to actually use some kind of logic when choosing what accessories go on a Warframe or weapon instead of just "Eh, that looks cool." 

 

I understand that they are useless by their very nature as Accessories, but renaming them as Attachments immediately breaks that limiting factor for them. If you're a Rhino with a full set of Daedalus Armor, why not give some kind of added benefit to their armor rating or health and shields? If you're a Volt donning full Eos Armor, why not increase your energy regen or energy efficiency etc.? I'm not asking for game breaking enhancements but just a little boost so you don't feel like you got the attachment just because it looked neat. Give some purpose to our purchase.

 

At the moment, the ONLY way to get these accessories? Through platinum.

Not a problem since trading is allowed.

 

If DE adds stats to custom looks like alternate helms/attachments, it will start a whole new rage war about pay to win.

Why? Because you are now paying for more stats. DE might need to limit platinum trading because of this (or maybe not, since someone else paid for the platinum and is trading it away, but in the bigger sense, DE is potentially losing out on more money that could be gained from "pay to win" items).

 

It's already good just for the visual effects that it provides (mainly the custom armor attachements).

[Genzaio]

COSMETICS. Another word to look pretty. Thats why they dont have stats, they are ATTACHMENTS, they simply latch onto you. 

 

And of course they'd cost plat, they arent enhancing your gameplay by any means... its just there to look pretty. Want to help fund warframe? Then go buy some plat and buy accessories. 

 

Period. Im done with this. 

 

Edit: You're basically asking yourself "Why doesnt this make-up make me go faster and perform better?"

 

Just No.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Genzaio

[Nkomo-Sama]

Not too long ago helmets had stats, but it was later decided that cosmetics should not have them at all, and that decision is governing all cosmetics from here on out. Helmets, armor, syandanas, and all future accessories will not have stats.

I think that the problem people had with the helmets was the Trade-Off as in you increase x but you must decease y. For me at least it was something new to get used to. I eventually liked it and I won't sell my Arcanes because of it although there will always be a market for them. To everyone who says that it will turn the game into a pay 2 win I say ~_~ ....cuz....alerts. Break up the parts through the alert table. Boom just like how I got all my arcane helmets. Now I could have bought them if I had plat but I took the route offered to everyone to attain them. Attachments and syndanas I can see as cosmetic but ARMOR AND HELMETS? Stats are cool and could be done right. Too bad   

 

we're not in a korean mmo

Fair enough are we in any of the 1000 's of successful games that have cosmetics with stats then?

Edited June 28, 2014 by Nkomo-Sama

[Hexagoros]

Accessories serve their purpose -- they are bling.

 

This doesn't need to be yet another Pay-2-Win JMMORPG/KMMORPG where massive stats are attached to expensive cosmetic items.  The market is already flooded with those, and guess what?  Warframe is more popular then them.  Warframe is doing it right.

 

I know that is difficult for some people to wrap their heads around, since most eastern rpgs offer these kinds of insane boosts, but we seriously do not need that in warframe.  Let cosmetics remain cosmetic.  If you want stat boosts, go earn them.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Hexagoros

[(PSN)kcarpe2007]

---snip---

Pointless.

I think we all need to "agree to disagree" and remove ourselves from this circular madness. Enjoy the game everyone!

Edited June 28, 2014 by (PS4)kcarpe2007

[Zeromanicus]

They're cosmetic items that allow you to look cool and support the game via platinum. Giving them stats would be pay to win.

[Ribboz]

If you want to play a game where the cash shops offer you cosmetic crap with stats on them go play some pay to win korean grind MMO or something. Its warframe. Even the helmets that had stats on them in the first place were basically cosmetic except for maybe 2 of the 12 helmets. You shouldn't NEED an incentive to BUY stupid cosmetic crap thats meant to be entirely cosmetic in the first place. Do you go to wal-mart and get frustrated everytime you pass the jewelry section because you feel the need to buy it all? I doubt it. 

You missed the point of my post entirely.

 

Stop comparing Warframe to real life. Who buys jewelry at walmart? I find it a little offensive that you compare warframe to Walmart.

 

As I said in my original post. Give us alternative ways to EARN the cosmetic items and THEN they can have all the bonuses they want. The cosmetic items were only seen as pay to win because they were only acquirable through purchase. You open up the options of acquisition and you gain all the options to do what you like with those items. Warframe squandered huge opportunities of customization by making cosmetic items only cosmetic. 

[WarGrylls]

Accessories should be statless and remain statless... maybe even if they become obtainable through other non-plat means. Warframe is pay4looks and pay2sleep(ty AFK btw b-_^) They are NOT like forma or blu/goldtatos which are merely held back by a large amount of rng and/or time walls, because THEN we run into pay2sleep/win and wind up wearing some strange combo of armors and attatchments and looking like some kind of oddball trying to pwn it up, so no. I'd be uncomfortable with you're notions of wanting p2w/sleep in warframe.

 

-1 to you,OP

 

If you want to play a game where the cash shops offer you cosmetic crap with stats on them go play some pay to win korean grind MMO or something. Its warframe. Even the helmets that had stats on them in the first place were basically cosmetic except for maybe 2 of the 12 helmets. You shouldn't NEED an incentive to BUY stupid cosmetic crap thats meant to be entirely cosmetic in the first place. Do you go to wal-mart and get frustrated everytime you pass the jewelry section because you feel the need to buy it all? I doubt it. 

 

I would say to talk about Prime Access plus exclusive/event/limited mods/arcanes then (paying for upgraded frames/weps/sents/mods/helms) and say that its not a korean mmo thing entirely and examine market/trade standings currently, but that may derail the current thread a bit. There are some stains of p2w still in Warframe that is difficult to wipe off the map. 

 

So -1 to you and +1 to Ribboz 

 

Also, there are way more than just 2 arcanes that are useful. Just saying

Edited June 28, 2014 by WarGrylls