Facts About Void Dilution.

[Yezzik]

Currently there are 150 Prime part entries in the Void. Removing all the duplicates cuts that list down to 81.

That's 69 entries gone.

That's a loot table FIFTY-FOUR PERCENT of its original size.

That means DE could keep the same level of dilution and get rid of half the Void missions.

That means they could keep the same number of missions and spread rewards out so each mission has 3-4 parts.

That means they could give the Void and Derelict all ten mission types and split those 81 rewards out so each level (other than ODA) has 1-2 parts.

It means DE could spread the Prime parts, all 57 parts of the 19 non-Prime frames, and almost every single weapon in both Clantech and the Market, across the entire starmap and each level would have one reward.

[Silent293]

I'm glad you did this with all the spare time you have.

[DoomsDayDan]

But how would they peddle Prime Access if getting the latest primes was a reasonable process?

[Yezzik]

Thank you. Those five minutes with Excel, Calculator and Chrome were a heavy investment of my time.

[DogManDan]

And that would defeat the purpose of having a clan dojo for those weapons/frames located in there, as well as that would make getting the parts to easy across the void thereby eliminating the traditional "grind" in F2P games and actually cutting into making real money through platinum. If it is too easy to get items in general game less people will spend real money and that would mean no profit and essentially lead to no game.

 

I think the drop rate is quite horrid inside of the void and more adjustments are needed, but not to the point where it is too easy to obtain.

[ASH_PRIME]

Can we at least use all the spare parts for something?

I.E  My clan would like to make a Chandelier to hang in our great hall made out of the 1000 Dakra Prime Handles we have.

 

[Tsukinoki]

That means they could keep the same number of missions and spread rewards out so each mission has 3-4 parts.

Will never happen for the simple reason it would make finding any prime gear *far* to easy to allow for any type of monetization.

And in a F2P game the grind walls and time sinks are important aspects of the game in order to properly monetize it.

Also, they wouldn't do this because I could just do 15-20 minutes in any survival run and have every single prime piece that the survival drops and never have to run those missions again.

While I do think that they can improve the loot and drop-rate in the void missions, such a drastic reduction like this just isn't feasible for a F2P game.

[Frostosti]

what's the advantage of DE in this?

ofcourse they CAN do this, but why would they WANT to do it?

the easier it is to acquire items, the less they earn

[Aver]

i just want De to make it hard to obtain prime parts, but not frustrating. id rather a long progress to get them rather than basing it on rng and maybe getting it instantly, or ending up feeling like ive gotten no progress after hours of play. honestly they just need to come up with a none rng based way of walling off orokin drops.

[Yezzik]

what's the advantage of DE in this?

ofcourse they CAN do this, but why would they WANT to do it?

the easier it is to acquire items, the less they earn

I"m not saying make it easier. By all means, keep the low droprates for what people want.

But for all that's holy, the duplication needs to be fixed so they have more room to work with instead of going "damn it, out of room again, best add T5 and duplicate everything" in a few months.

[Tsukinoki]

@Yezzik
Honestly, the best that I'm hoping for is when they come out with new prime parts they'll just replace some of the duplicates that are in there currently with the new ones.
Or add T1-T3 interception missions to free up some space that way.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Tsukinoki

[Liminal]

A sustainable solution needs to be implemented, otherwise we'll always run out of space and eventually it'll be a clusterf ... Ruk :P

[winters.prime]

What people seem to forget is that this is a F2P game, like stated above they need to make money somewhere. What is the best solution? create grind walls for your players so they pay for convenience. How can they make money off of prime access if  all of a sudden anyone can get the latest prime in under 20 minutes? Yes it would be fantastic for the player base but internally DE will begin to loose money. Its interesting that people forget the fact that they need money to put food on their tables as well.

[Yezzik]

A sustainable solution needs to be implemented, otherwise we'll always run out of space and eventually it'll be a clusterf ... Ruk :P

Hence why I keep promoting the starmap idea.

God knows there's sod all reason to go back to 90% of the nodes there.

[Tsukinoki]

@Yezzik
Problem with the starmap is that unless they give the items a less than 1% drop rate for completing the missions there it wouldn't be sustainable at all.

Afterall, if I can run each node just 2 or 3 times and get the one prime part that it holds and move on, why would I go back and play 90% of the nodes after that?

It wouldn't solve the issue at all in the long run.
Sure, people without all of the prime parts would re-run all of the nodes.  But if you happen to have most or all of the prime gear you still wouldn't play on any of the normal modes, so it would end up exactly the same as it is currently.

[Yezzik]

At least if they had really low droprates then if you get a Prime part at all, it's going to be what you were looking for.

And if DE don't do anything like that because a lot of people have everything already and therefore it doesn't really affect them, then nothing will ever get changed.

So let's see... reasons to go back to each node if you've gotten that node's Prime part... really low chances for frame/weapon slots, perhaps?

[dashashou]

i like to say that OK-cells are not OK in the void , and DE needs to fix there void  tables - alot of people aren't  logging in cause they feel there no point / no way to get those shiny prime parts atm 

Edited July 1, 2014 by Ravel7

[Yezzik]

i like to say that OK-cells are not OK in the void , and DE needs to fix there void  tables - alot of people aren't  logging in cause they feel there no point / no way to get those shiny prime parts atm 

 

What I think we need is a system that has protection in place to prevent RNG from screwing players over forever.

I tried to design such a system earlier today that covered many things, part of which was how new players just couldn't get their hands on certain mods.

 

-The Idea-

 

Each node on the Starmap has specific items associated with it. Enemies no longer drop anything at all (which helps prevent the issue of things falling into unreachable places).

 

Resources only come from Extractors. Each planet (and the Void and Derelict) provides one and only one resource, guaranteeing that players find what they're after, but the harvest time differs depending on what that resource is. Forma and Potatoes come from the Void and Derelict respectively, but the former takes a week to harvest and the latter a full month. Don't want Nano Spores? Don't deploy your Extractors looking for them then.

 

Each time a player completes a node, they receive a Fusion Core. How good the Core is depends on the mission level.

Every TEN times they complete a node, they get its associated mod.

Every FIFTY times, they get its standard equipment part.

Every HUNDRED times, its Prime-level part.

At FIVE HUNDRED clears, they get its cosmetic item.

At ONE THOUSAND clears, they get a one-time bonus depending on the node (a Warframe slot, a Weapon slot, a Sentinel slot or maybe a small quantity of untradeable Platinum).

 

^ All numbers are clearly final and would never ever be changed for balance purposes.

 

Also, fitting the 300+ mods we have currently into the 200+ starmap nodes would either require some of the less useful mods getting the axe, or simply holding off on them until the starmap gets expanded. Alternatively, they could be placed into the reward structure above to pad out the "prime" and "cosmetic" layers.

[Me.KayOh]

I think DE will be making some adjustments to the drop tables and so on. but it wouldn't be as excessive as what is being recommended here. it does need some tuning but nothing more. its F2P grind. this is the game.

[Yezzik]

I'm just throwing crazy ideas out there. My goal is to find a way of reducing or removing the reliance on RNG in favour of grind.

 

Grind provides the player with measured progress, and provides the developers with the assurance that players after the rewards offered by a single piece of content will both more likely stay the course (because they can always see themselves making progress) and that each of those players will experience the content for at least X duration.

 

RNG harms everyone. The players who never get what they're after risk burning out and deciding "screw this, I'll play something else," and the players who get something first time around could end up only visiting whatever content it is once or twice, thus rendering all that development time, effort and resources a waste of money on that player.