A Few Questions About Melee

[Smoolio]

1. I'm hearing that charge attack is capped at x2 crit damage, is this true? so crit dmg mods dont effect it?

2. So charge attack ignores armor right? so armor piercing mods have no effect?

[ReiganCross]

1. I'm hearing that charge attack is capped at x2 crit damage, is this true? so crit dmg mods dont effect it?

2. So charge attack ignores armor right? so armor piercing mods have no effect?

No, no and no...

Charge attacks have it's own number for every weapon. And SOME weapons actually pierce armor (Like the majority of knives)

But yeah, other the that, concider them separate attacks (Pressure Points does not work on Charge Attacks, for example.)

[Smoolio]

So do +critdmg and armor piercing mods effect charge attack?

[Pentatonix]

Hi Smoolio, Don't listen to a thing ReiganCross said. One of the most infuriating things about the Warframe community is the apparent obsession with answering questions without knowing what the fack they're talking about. It appears hes not even answering what you're asking anyways so let me try.

I do not know about number 1; sorry.

About number two, All charged attacks ignore armor, and an AP mod should as far as I know add more AP damage. So if you have a 200 charged attack with a 50% AP mod it should do 300 AP damage. I'm not entirely sure but as far as I've been able to learn that is the case. You should do a bit more research and try to figure out for yourself who knows what they're talkin about, but I also understand its incredibly hard to do so on this forum and even if you find the right questions being answered you dont know if you can believe them like in ReiganCross' case. Sorry I can't say 100% i'm right but as far as i know it will add additional % AP damage.

[FoxStarz]

I would like to know this answer also. I would also like to know if slide attacks are amplified by pressure point or other mods.

[DreakinZ]

1. I'm hearing that charge attack is capped at x2 crit damage, is this true? so crit dmg mods dont effect it?

2. So charge attack ignores armor right? so armor piercing mods have no effect?

1) No that is false.

2)No, only dagger ignore Armour so they are the only one that can ignore amour when doing charge attack when we are talking about no mods are added. But Piercing Mods do help the other melee weapon against armored monster and adding piercing mods to a dagger makes them even stronger against Armour as it does stack.

Hope this answer your question.

Edited April 8, 2013 by DreakinZ

[OrtuOcelot]

1) No that is false.

2)No, only dagger ignore Armour so they are the only one that can ignore amour when doing charge attack when we are talking about no mods are added. But Piercing Mods do help the other melee weapon against armored monster and adding piercing mods to a dagger makes them even stronger against Armour as it does stack.

Hope this answer your question.

You're wrong on #2...EVERY weapon's charged attack ignores armor. I can't be sure if AP mods work with AP innate melee weapons, they may be different than the firearms, where bolt weapons whose ammunition is AP cannot stack with AP mods. I haven't messed with AP mods on melee, but I do know they all ignore armor with charged attacks. I would hope AP mods don't stack with charged attacks, since that's the deal with firearms.

[Dekallis]

Charge attacks ignore armor people. Remeber your skana? Remember how it's charge attack did 75 damage to grineer? Guess what? That's what it does to Corpus too. Which means Grineer armor ain't applying to it. Charge attacks for melee weapons are separate from the normal attack/sliding attack/ and jumping attacks. Those are all considered Melee and are boosted by the pressure point mod. Charge damage and charge speed mods ONLY affect the charge attack.

Armor piercing mods are basically a 4th element. The way the game counts those mods is a % of your damage is added to your attack as that damage type. So AP mods always add damage regardless of what type of attack you're using or what you're hitting.

Each weapon has it's own critical rates, some have higher crit rates than others,and probably also varying crit multipliers Critical damage mods will always apply though. They go up to 90% for melee weapons. There wouldn't be much point in them if you were capped at 2x damage now would it? My plasma sword is definitely critting for more than 2x it's normal damage.

[Pentatonix]

I hate how 4 people gave blatently wrong answers before Dekallis came in here. I don't get why people do that lol. At least say i'm not sure like I did. QQQ choo choo choo

[NicoDemon]

Okay.

Attack power (Pressure point) only works on normal attacks (tapping E button) slide attacks and jump attacks. Charge attacks are amplified by the Charge attack mod. Some weapons like the daggers and the scindo have some passive armor piercing. I would definitively recommend the armor piercing mod for grineer and some corpus. As far as caps in dmg I haven't reached one yet.

I forgot to add that charge attacks ignore armor. Not sure what % they do ignore but AP does work with charge attacks too and crits do apply to charge attacks too.

Edited April 8, 2013 by NicoDemon

[DreakinZ]

You're wrong on #2...EVERY weapon's charged attack ignores armor. I can't be sure if AP mods work with AP innate melee weapons, they may be different than the firearms, where bolt weapons whose ammunition is AP cannot stack with AP mods. I haven't messed with AP mods on melee, but I do know they all ignore armor with charged attacks. I would hope AP mods don't stack with charged attacks, since that's the deal with firearms.

You are wrong =.= if that was true I will be still able to one hit charge attack armour monster from wave 46.

With full dmg mods crit mods crit dmg. buy just charging.

Heavy weapon do not ignore armour even with charge as that will make them Overpowers cause if by default they ignore armour with charge attack without getting help from piercing mods then once you add more Armour piercing mods into it then it's just to strong. Only reason dagger are able to as they have weaker dmg outputs then the other =.= even search it up at wiki.

Most weapons Can One hit charge at lower lvl enemies.

Edited April 8, 2013 by DreakinZ

[OrtuOcelot]

Charge attacks ignore armor people. Remeber your skana? Remember how it's charge attack did 75 damage to grineer? Guess what? That's what it does to Corpus too. Which means Grineer armor ain't applying to it. Charge attacks for melee weapons are separate from the normal attack/sliding attack/ and jumping attacks. Those are all considered Melee and are boosted by the pressure point mod. Charge damage and charge speed mods ONLY affect the charge attack.

You are wrong =.= if that was true I will be still able to one hit charge attack armour monster from wave 46.

With full dmg mods crit mods crit dmg. buy just charging.

Heavy weapon do not ignore armour even with charge as that will make them Overpowers cause if by default they ignore armour with charge attack without getting help from piercing mods then once you add more Armour piercing mods into it then it's just to strong. Only reason dagger are able to as they have weaker dmg outputs then the other =.= even search it up at wiki.

Most weapons Can One hit charge at lower lvl enemies.

And I'm wrong because someone else just confirmed that all charge attacks ignore damage ¬.¬

[DreakinZ]

And I'm wrong because someone else just confirmed that all charge attacks ignore damage ¬.¬

Both wrong, Cause if that's possible I will still be able to charge everything from wave 45. As I stopped one hitting them with charge attack from my heavy melee weapons at around wave 35 even with armour peircing added to it =.=

[Pentatonix]

DreakinZ THIER HP GOES UP HOLY MOLEY. Also, AP is the Armor Penetration mod not Attack Power. This is not WoW or LoL but I understand if you are still wired to the other games, happens to everyone. I was sitting there freakin out cause everyone kept talkin about pressure point and I couldnt figure out where the F*** they kept getting that from because the OP didn't mention anything about it rofl.

[DreakinZ]

DreakinZ THIER HP GOES UP HOLY MOLEY. Also, AP is the Armor Penetration mod not Attack Power. This is not WoW or LoL but I understand if you are still wired to the other games, happens to everyone. I was sitting there freakin out cause everyone kept talkin about pressure point and I couldnt figure out where the F*** they kept getting that from because the OP didn't mention anything about it rofl.

Lol! I Have not been using the shortcut as I have been saying armour peircing this whole time as I do not know where you see me get attack power.

Even with there HP going higher. with maxed Crit Chance + crit dmg mods and Fire dmg mods and melee dmg mods Is enough to take it out if we're arguing about HP wise without armour being applied. The higher the monster goes the higher they're Armour defense goes up as well. And how am I related to WoW, what are you even trying to argue about with WoW.

The only heavy one i know that does ignore is fragor. I do not use fragor because with zero polarity you will only be able to put in a couple of maxed mods into it.

Edited April 8, 2013 by DreakinZ

[Pentatonix]

The attack power comment was at some of the other posts. As far as the hp going up, I got to wave 40 on the Outer Terminus earlier today, and I would head shot crit the Crewmen for 600 and then see a few other 100s and 200s come off, and they would get 1 shot now that I think about it; but back to my point, the other mobs with the same gun, for admitedly lower damage would take like 2-4 head shots to kill, and they were being 1 shot up till wave like 25-30. I can only attribute this to thier hp going up.

[DreakinZ]

The attack power comment was at some of the other posts. As far as the hp going up, I got to wave 40 on the Outer Terminus earlier today, and I would head shot crit the Crewmen for 600 and then see a few other 100s and 200s come off, and they would get 1 shot now that I think about it; but back to my point, the other mobs with the same gun, for admitedly lower damage would take like 2-4 head shots to kill, and they were being 1 shot up till wave like 25-30. I can only attribute this to thier hp going up.

when you say shot do you mean with a gun or the melee. If you are talking about the gun then your dmg output get weaker cause they're armour goes up as gun do not ignore armour by default and with armour peircing they can only ignore a portion of it. But as you guys argue charge attacks ignores Armour people

which is false.

[Unibot]

when you say shot do you mean with a gun or the melee. If you are talking about the gun then your dmg output get weaker cause they're armour goes up as gun do not ignore armour by default and with armour peircing they can only ignore a portion of it. But as you guys argue charge attacks ignores Armour people

which is false.

So you are operating on your opinion of what would happen instead of actual numbers ? Interesting...

You do no like math, do you ..?

Also there maybe an overall damage cap, if your actuall damage is true (possible of 1 hit everything)

As you go further in game - enemy gets more hp, a lot more. I 1 hit everything on europe, but 2 hit everything on pluto. Got what I'm saying ?

Also the more you hold charge - the more damage is done by weapon. Constantly was not able to 1 hit, by not holding charge to full... So... yeah.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Unibot

[DreakinZ]

So you are operating on your opinion of what would happen instead of actual numbers ? Interesting...

You do no like math, do you ..?

Also there maybe an overall damage cap, if your actuall damage is true (possible of 1 hit everything)

As you go further in game - enemy gets more hp, a lot more. I 1 hit everything on europe, but 2 hit everything on pluto. Got what I'm saying ?

Also the more you hold charge - the more damage is done by weapon. Constantly was not able to 1 hit, by not holding charge to full... So... yeah.

I have done the math derp, as I already claim before with those mod my dmg output is already high enough to still take them out with one charge attack if what they claim is true that all charge attack ignores armour.

And you guys think only HP goes up =.= each lvl effect Health, Armour and shield. Armored monster gain more armour the more they lvl up compared with there weaker kind as Armour monster are called armored monster for a reason, and there hp do increase but not a lot compare there Armour states.

Pluto =.= even with my shotgun which is even stronger then my sword but yet it take me shotgun 2 shots while my heavy takes 3 charge attacks or 2 charge and 1-2 auto after. If it truly does ignore armour my melee should've one hit. yet it doesn't meaning Armour stats still applies to it.

And fyi armored monster do not have high HP, the only reason it seems that way is because they're Armour is making your dmg do less making it take longer to kill them. That why you see they're HP slowly going down because you're dmg is not 100% true it's been reduce cause of there armour. If they gave them higher HP with there already high Armour then that's fcked.

And the holding part doesn't change, you have to hold it at a certain amount of sec till it does it charge attack move. If you try to cut it half way it will do its auto melee.

Edited April 8, 2013 by DreakinZ

[Unibot]

Try looking at numbers that are constantly popping out when you hit those "armored" enemies. All I see so far is "I refuse to believe, cause I believe in something different, even if its not true"

[DreakinZ]

Try looking at numbers that are constantly popping out when you hit those "armored" enemies. All I see so far is "I refuse to believe, cause I believe in something different, even if its not true"

Lawl okay? and still proved true. Yet you guys cannot even prove the fact/source of this all charge attack ignored Armour.

[Daelnoron]

Okay, here's the trick for everybody to find out for himself:

1. Get yourself a non armor ignoring melee weapon like the Scindo. Unmoddet. Nothing at all.

2. Hit a Corpus Crewman with it. Normal melee attack. ---> write down the number.

3. Hit a Grineer with it. Same as above, just a normal uncharged melee. ---> write down the number.

4. Compare the numbers. You should note a difference. Thats because Grineer have higher armor.

5. Hit a Corpus Crewman with the weapon. Full charged attack. ---> write down the number.

6. Hit a Grineer with it. Full charge. ---> write down the number.

7. Compare THIS numbers. You should see, that there is no difference. Because there should be none.

8. Post your results. Please (since this seems to be a very heavily discussed theme)

[Darzk]

So much misinformation in this thread. Especially love the guy who *@##$es about people posting misinformation as if they know what they are talking about and then follows it up with more misinformation. To prevent myself from doing the same, most of the following information is based on tests prepactch 7 and may have changed since. Check out:

http://guidescroll.c...echanics-guide/

Most of this still applies (there's an updated post on the forums here somewhere with this info too).

TLDR:

HP and Shield goes up with level (and dmg output). Armor also is increased, at somewhere around +1% mitigation per level. For example Grineer normals will take 1/3rd of headshot damage on a body shot always, but only takes 94% of full damage on a headshot at level 5, and 67.5% of full damage of a headshot at level 25.

[This is the only part I'm unsure about. I've been using piercing weapons since patch 7 and this may have been changed, seemed my Lex when I used it on occasion was not doing less damage on higher level enemies, but all the mods were bugging out as client and I wasnt paying much attention]

Piercing weapons work differently, with 100% of damage dealt always regardless of level and hit location, and 2x damage for headshots/weak points.

Elemental or AP damage does not convert a portion of your damage to a certain type. Instead it adds additional damage of the type specified. The damage added is calculated as a percentage of the damage done by each shot. So while the elemental damage cannot crit, it is increased by the same amount proportionately as the bullet damage. So Crit% and Crit Dmg % mods do increase elemental damage done.

I don't know if charge damage is crit-capped (no idea why it would be, and not even sure if you can get to 2x damage as a crit modifier; you may mean crit damage on a charge attack is frozen/passively x2?).

I do know that charge attacks ignore armor. What this means is that in every possible situation you will deal 100% of your charge damage to your target (with the possible exception of some bosses and maybe shields?) Elemental Damage dealt on a charged attack is still mitigated by normal reductions; etc +90% fire damage will do 90%*(75%-(1%*level))/2 of your charge attack modified damage to a Grineer. Modified meaning if you have +100% charge damage the elemental damage done on a charge attack is doubled as well.

Edited April 9, 2013 by Darzk

[DreakinZ]

So much misinformation in this thread. Especially love the guy who *@##$es about people posting misinformation as if they know what they are talking about and then follows it up with more misinformation. To prevent myself from doing the same, most of the following information is based on tests prepactch 7 and may have changed since. Check out:

http://guidescroll.c...echanics-guide/

Most of this still applies (there's an updated post on the forums here somewhere with this info too).

TLDR:

HP and Shield goes up with level (and dmg output). Armor also is increased, at somewhere around +1% mitigation per level. For example Grineer normals will take 1/3rd of headshot damage on a body shot always, but only takes 94% of full damage on a headshot at level 5, and 67.5% of full damage of a headshot at level 25.

[This is the only part I'm unsure about. I've been using piercing weapons since patch 7 and this may have been changed, seemed my Lex when I used it on occasion was not doing less damage on higher level enemies, but all the mods were bugging out as client and I wasnt paying much attention]

Piercing weapons work differently, with 100% of damage dealt always regardless of level and hit location, and 2x damage for headshots/weak points.

Elemental or AP damage does not convert a portion of your damage to a certain type. Instead it adds additional damage of the type specified. The damage added is calculated as a percentage of the damage done by each shot. So while the elemental damage cannot crit, it is increased by the same amount proportionately as the bullet damage. So Crit% and Crit Dmg % mods do increase elemental damage done.

I don't know if charge damage is crit-capped (no idea why it would be, and not even sure if you can get to 2x damage as a crit modifier; you may mean crit damage on a charge attack is frozen/passively x2?).

I do know that charge attacks ignore armor. What this means is that in every possible situation you will deal 100% of your charge damage to your target (with the possible exception of some bosses and maybe shields?) Elemental Damage dealt on a charged attack is still mitigated by normal reductions; etc +90% fire damage will do 90%*(75%-(1%*level))/2 of your charge attack modified damage to a Grineer. Modified meaning if you have +100% charge damage the elemental damage done on a charge attack is doubled as well.

And yet nothing here proves. All melee charge attacks ignore armor lmao

[Darzk]

And yet nothing here proves. All melee charge attacks ignore armor lmao

I don`t get it. Are you agreeing with me? Or just ESL?

You asking for SS's? Get em yourself. When I first got my DHS's I was hitting 150 on everything on a charged attack. Thats proof.

[Smoolio]

The devs should make an official wiki with all the systems imo, saves us just arguing back and forth.