Changing Warframes Lore-Wise

[Cinderain]

And yet all _other_ "vidya games" have separate story tracks for each in-world "character", In Warframe our tutorial progression, mission progression, boss-death-guilt, has only _one_ track. Suggesting that if Warframe is indeed "vidya gaems being vidya gaems" then we are representing a single POV, a single character.

 

Story progression isn't a "mechanic" its the story, it is the definition of "in-game" and Warframes progression is single-character.

 

Don't over-think it.

[SilentMobius]

Don't over-think it.

 

I'm not, I using the same basic rules ever other game does.

 

Separate progress track, separate characters (Borderlands/Mass Effect[2/3]/Guild Wars[2]/Any MMO/etc)

Single Progress track, single character (Doom/Wolfenstein/Bioshock[infinite]/Devil May Cry/etc)

 

It's the most basic rule in computer gaming, same progress track, same character.

Edited July 18, 2014 by SilentMobius

[PlayGooYa]

I resent scattershot fanfic and the people who write them.

(Like that assinine Kaleen is Lotus "theory.")

 

Each Warframe belongs to a unique Tenno who is an archetypal representative of his/her "breed."

It's a video game abstraction. Simple and straightforward.

 

No. Stop. Go away wild mass-guessers. We don't want your cruft.

[Cinderain]

(Doom/Wolfenstein/Bioshock[infinite]/Devil May Cry/etc)

 

Are you seriously comparing Warframe to these?

Edited July 18, 2014 by FatalX7

[Headofgod]

Or better yet!  The Warframe gender design team who had to undergo decades of intense and expensive training made all the designs for one gender per suit, went on vacation and became infested.  All of that technology lost! OH WOEZ!  So the infested are not really trying to kill us off, they are in fact attempting to get rid of outdated tech.

[SilentMobius]

Are you seriously comparing Warframe to these?

 

I'm saying they use a single progress track and have a single in-game character, am I incorrect?

Edited July 18, 2014 by SilentMobius

[PlayGooYa]

I'm saying they use a single progress track and have a single in-game character, am I incorrect?

 

Then you're not saying anything.

Either the rule is informative or it isn't.

 

It's not though. Because swapping frames is a way of expanding content and not an informed plot element.

[SilentMobius]

I resent scattershot fanfic and the people who write them.

(Like that assinine Kaleen is Lotus "theory.")

 

Each Warframe belongs to a unique Tenno who is an archetypal representative of his/her "breed."

It's a video game abstraction. Simple and straightforward.

 

No. Stop. Go away wild mass-guessers. We don't want your cruft.

 

I feel the same way about those writing fanfic with a bunch of Tenno all locked into Warframes where they refer to each other by the name of the Warframe. I think it's silly and counter to the theme of the game.

[SilentMobius]

Then you're not saying anything.

Either the rule is informative or it isn't.

 

It's not though. Because swapping frames is a way of expanding content and not an informed plot element.

 

Swapping frames is the same as swapping armour in any other game with an equipment loadout.

 

This why it's presented in the same way. And the _story_ of the game is from the perspective of a single Tenno.

[Arlayn]

So, there was a guess that Tenno are actually infested, but in a more stabilized state (Hayden).

 

And from time to time, there pops out a question:

 

,,What about changing Warframes? How does it fit lore-wise?"

 

There is a quite simple answer:

 

You imagine that you're always one of them (for eternity).

 

 

But I have an idea.

 

You know what Technocyte causes, right? Zits (tumors), Hives, Infested.

 

What if you change Warframes by morphing your body?

 

Maybe you can become a mass of flesh and then morph into another Warframe?

 

What do you think? Ideas?

play the prologue VOR said what we are. Were balls of energy filling in the suit. Not organic living creatures.

[Headofgod]

I feel the same way about those writing fanfic with a bunch of Tenno all locked into Warframes where they refer to each other by the name of the Warframe. I think it's silly and counter to the theme of the game.

 

Silent, that could be a societal taboo though.  When you are in your frame YOU ARE THAT FRAME.  Individual identification could be an intimate/personal/taboo thing.  We dont know.  If the void mutations were horrific or severely altering then that could easily be a societal shift.

[zoffmode]

Vor just said something akin to "each frame that you control... [bla bla bla]", meaning you are indeed swapping warframes as a single Tenno.

Edited July 18, 2014 by zoffmode

[PlayGooYa]

Swapping frames is the same as swapping armour in any other game with an equipment loadout.

 

This why it's presented in the same way. And the _story_ of the game is from the perspective of a single Tenno.

 

False equivalence (similarity is not evidence of identity). The sensible answer is that Warframe is bound to your account and the changes to your avatar are functionally cosmetic.

 

If you go get your character's face changed in an MMO, is that evidence of face-altering Tzimitzsce plastic surgeons? No of course not. It's absurd.

I can also change my colors on my equipment. So you might as well then just say my ship has an automated painters and 3D printers. (The only difference being that this just isn't that interesting for fans to speculate about. So they have no emotional investment in asserting it.)

 

Here's what annoys me about fancruft:

The fans are bad thinkers and bad writers. The offenses are two-fold. And it offends me mightily.

One, they violate rules of logical rules of parsimony (i.e. Occam's Razor).

Two, they seem rather insistent on writing bad melodramatic soaps. Rather like jumping the shark or a sensational tabloid article. They rely on gimmicks to grab attention, which is the only real appeal of their ideas.

Edited July 18, 2014 by PlayGooYa

[Cinderain]

Wait, did I just entertain this?

 

Sorry about that.

Edited July 18, 2014 by FatalX7

[SilentMobius]

Here's what annoys me about fancruft:

The fans are bad thinkers and bad writers. The offenses are two-fold. And it offends me mightily.

One, they violate rules of logical rules of parsimony (i.e. Occam's Razor).

Two, they seem rather insistent on writing bad melodramatic soaps. Rather like jumping the shark or a sensational tabloid article. They rely on gimmicks to grab attention, which is the only real appeal of their ideas.

 

This is precisely how I feel about multiple-tenno-each in a single warframe fanfiction. It ruins the story, violates occams razor. Reduces the identity of the Tenno to a gimmic.

 

False equivalence (similarity is not evidence of identity). The sensible answer is that Warframe is bound to your account and the changes to your avatar are functionally cosmetic. If you go get your character's face changed in an MMO, is that evidence of face-altering Tzimitzsce plastic surgeons? No of course not. It's absurd. I can also change my colors on my equipment. So you might as well then just say my ship has an automated painters and 3D printers. (The only difference being that this just isn't that interesting for fans to speculate about. So they have no emotional investment in asserting it.)

 

This make no sense at all. Cosmetic are just that. Character identity is just that, we have a single character identity unrelated to cosmetics. Character choice is always separated from inventory management so as to ensure the _player_ recognizes the difference. Either DE is abysmal at constructing game mechanics and story progression or we play from a single character POV

its game design 101.

Edited July 18, 2014 by SilentMobius

[PlayGooYa]

 

This is precisely how I feel about multiple-tenno-each in a single warframe fanfiction. It ruins the story, violates occams razor. Reduces the identity of the Tenno to a gimmic.

 

 

No. That is not Occam's Razor. You can't rightfully be making the statement that Tenno are shapeshifters at all because it doesn't fit any existing body of evidence. Otherwise I can assert anything I want about them and it's just as good as any other fan theory. (Tenno are secretly angels! I can also clutch at straws to support it. Vor said something about them having divine powers! And the Orokin were awfully fond of the gold trim.)

 

You are asserting that a game option is in fact, a plot element. And you can't prove it.

I'm asserting that the game option, is in fact, a game option. That the guy on the screen is just an interchangeable avatar for the sake of technical convenience.

 

You're also just saying back the things that I said at you.

Edited July 18, 2014 by PlayGooYa

[SilentMobius]

You are asserting that a game option is in fact, a plot element. And you can't prove it.

I'm asserting that the game option, is in fact, a game option. That the guy on the screen is just an interchangeable avatar for the sake of technical convenience.

 

Oh right, sorry there are generally two camps in these discussion:

 

Mono-Tenno (We play a single Tenno who constructs and changes between Warframes)

Poly-Tenno (Each Warframe comes with its own Tenno and we switch between them).

 

You're proposing a third option: That we are a single Tenno in a single Warframe and non of the building Warframes or switching Warframes is anything other than a game mechanic, it has no existence in the game world. I.E. we are always and have always been the Tenno-in Warframe we currently are (Even when the player changes Warframe)

 

Fair enough. I think that's nonsense but so long as we're clear about what you're proposing.

Edited July 18, 2014 by SilentMobius

[PlayGooYa]

Oh right, sorry there are generally two camps in these discussion:

 

Mono-Tenno (We play a single Tenno who constructs and changes between Warframes)

Poly-Tenno (Each Warframe comes with its own Tenno and we switch between them).

 

You're proposing a third option: That we are a single Tenno in a single Warframe and non of the building Warframes or switching Warframes is anything other than a game mechanic, it has no existence in the game world. I.E. we are always and have always been the Tenno-in Warframe we currently are (Even when the player changes Warframe)

 

Fair enough. I think that's nonsense but so long as we're clear about what you're proposing.

 

The second camp is generally the same as your third camp.  It works well enough that the Tenno you swap between are simply token stand-ins. 

 

Plenty of gamey abstractions don't exist in the game world (i.e experience). You know this is true.

If I have a class-based shooter, are all class members literally clones of each other just because I swap between them and because they share game models?

Or is it just more reasonable to assume that it just doesn't matter to the story?

 

You're just putting up a fight for the sake of putting up a fight. You have an emotional attachment to protect here and nothing else. You're a fancrufter. You like contrived soap developments. Don't beat around the bush about it.

Edited July 18, 2014 by PlayGooYa

[NevanChambers]

<farnsworth>Good news everyone</farnsworth>

 

So U14, looks like Vor has a gadget that lets him get into our skull. and boy does he have something to say on the subject:

 

 

You can argue plural vs singular on Tenno but either way that pretty much confirms that it's the Warframe that shapes the effects and the Tenno that provides the Void power.

 

I'd argue that it strongly suggests single-Tenno-multiple-Warframes as well but as I said you could argue the plural use of Tenno here, but I think it's poorly composed if it's intended to be taken as plural-tenno single-Warframe-per-Tenno.

 

At least we can strike out the "Tenno have one type of power and get locked into a specific Warframe because of it" thing regardless.

I'm starting to think DE likes watching us argue about this.

I disagree that it means that the powers are not locked to the Tenno. I'll use Ember for an example.

Ember without warframe. The fires lash out without true form consuming everything an Ember gets near.

Ember with warframe. Fireballs, Creating an accelerant and spreading it, Creating a persistent fire ring. Mass of explosions all exercised with will.

Now the water (random constant burning) is shaped by the glass (the useful powers)

It shaping an energy doesn't necessarily denote that the energy is broad spectrum, or that we can strike out anything. Novas lore actually does a much better job suggesting broad spectrum energy than does the vor quote

[SilentMobius]

Well, I've almost finished the Mirage quest (Damn Argon crystals seem to have an even lower drop rate now)

 

It's pretty explicit _in game_ about you finding "Void imprints" of the last/only Tenno to wear that Warframe dying during the Sentients war, this results in the Lotus remembering/receiving a blueprint. We are then instructed to build a Warframe from those blueprints (the next mission clues are on the Warframe piece we build) and Ordis comments on the excitement of discovering a new Warframe line.

 

This quest is heavily slanted along the build-warframe-wear-warframe line and it's all in-game-non-game-mechanic diegetic information.

 

I'll post more when I have the Warframe built in case there is a final message but it's much too late here for me to run 5/10 more void missions in the hope of getting an Argon crystal.

[SilentMobius]

You're just putting up a fight for the sake of putting up a fight. You have an emotional attachment to protect here and nothing else. You're a fancrufter. You like contrived soap developments. Don't beat around the bush about it.

 

I'm not, you're simply incorrect, and if you keep pulling bullS#&$ terms like that out of your @$$ as some kind pathetic attempt at derogatory language. the thread will degrade even further and quicker than you seem to be pushing it.

Edited July 19, 2014 by SilentMobius