Before We Rework Oberon/nekros Can We Please Rework Ember

[Nyxcha]

You keep hamming on with this, here. Accelerant has a 20 yard range just to start, with a very solid stun and damage increase. And honestly, if it never came into your head that you should also equip a weapon with high fire damage to take advantage of it, then you aren't really playing Ember well enough to even be commenting so voraciously on her effectiveness, because the major lack therein seems to lie with you.

 

Her range can be short, Fireball and WoF can both be cast while in the air so mobility is hardly a problem, and her fast stun gives her a great deal of flexibility in getting from cover to cover. If you stand numbly around spamming keys to try to make the bad guys fall down, that's a problem with you. The game's design provides plenty of cover for you to cast from behind.

 

The only thing that needs to be fixed on Ember is Fire Blast. Everything else isn't lacking in effectiveness, contrary to whatever exaggerated claims you're throwing around.

the reason i pick on accelerant is its a radial thing.  aka ember in the middle.

 

if it was a skill similar to fireball where you throw it then i wouldnt hate it so much. cause it would be a ranged skill. not something with ember in the middle.

 

and the stun is not solid.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/256878-embers-accelerant/

 

 

and why should i be FORCED to use ignis with no gas/blast/radiation effect?

accelerant only works on fire dmg.  not fire combo dmg.

 

what if i want to use ignis with gas dmg instead of fire. huh? you lose SO MUCH POTENTIAL due to not being allowed to use any elemental combos cause of accelerant.

 

 

like my 2ndary weapon. a Magnus with so much status proc chance.  how? i have alot of event mods.  but none are affected by accelerant cause they are all fire element combos.   not pure fire.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Amberpaw

[Garuger]

the reason i pick on accelerant is its a radial thing.  aka ember in the middle.

 

if it was a skill similar to fireball where you throw it then i wouldnt hate it so much. cause it would be a ranged skill. not something with ember in the middle.

 

and the stun is not solid.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/256878-embers-accelerant/

 

 

and why should i be FORCED to use ignis with no gas/blast/radiation effect?

accelerant only works on fire dmg.  not fire combo dmg.

 

what if i want to use ignis with gas dmg instead of fire. huh? you lose SO MUCH POTENTIAL due to not being allowed to use any elemental combos cause of accelerant.

 

 

like my 2ndary weapon. a Magnus with so much status proc chance.  how? i have alot of event mods.  but none are affected by accelerant cause they are all fire element combos.   not pure fire.

So what if Acelerant gave buff to any elemental combo that had fire in it like Radiation etc

[Nyxcha]

So what if Acelerant gave buff to any elemental combo that had fire in it like Radiation etc

if it did that. then i would not complain at all. i would freakin love it.

[Garuger]

if it did that. then i would not complain at all. i would freakin love it.

Yeah iit would a very nice and fitting buff 

[Moderius]

you replied.  so you do believe its possible ember will get a buff first.

 

as i said, if you replied, then you believe its possible she could get buffed first.

 

What are you, eight? You don't make the rules, kiddo.

 

Your logic is just terrible throughout the thread. Stop embarrassing yourself. Or don't, because it makes for a very inspirational piece: "at least I'm not Amberpaw". But all you're doing is making noise, not contributing.

[Moderius]

the reason i pick on accelerant is its a radial thing.  aka ember in the middle.

 

So are you implying that it's bad to be able to stun enemies behind you, too?

 

If you use Accelerant by just running in the middle of masses of enemies, that's your problem. It can easily be used more carefully, without being "in the middle". That's a condition you create, not a condition of the ability.

[Monolake]

What concerns me is that no one is even trying to make the current Ember work. They're trying to press 4 and facetank the way they would have during the Overheat days and then declaring that Ember is useless. Even if Accelerant always only gave a 1 second stun it would still be amazing. You don't need to chain-cc enemies in this game at all, ever (btw Ember can still do this! It just costs energy.) Players who demand long, on-demand, unconditional cc abilities are either lazy, bad at the game, or think that their frame has to be exploitable for infinite content. The balance of this game should not cater to any of those players. Nyx, Nova, and Rhino are available for those who want to snooze through content. Leave Ember out of that group (stop comparing them ffs) and call to attention her real problems which are 3 being useless and 4 being duration-dependent.

The balance of this game is already at the point where you can solo lvl60s with max weapons and perma CC with many frames and infinitely scaling damage from some abilities.

Should we nerf everything from frames to weapons or buff the outsiders like Ember and Oberon? They are far below the 'balance' median and seen as useless.

Who needs a supposedly 'damage frame' when even combined her skills do 10 times less than a single Brakk shot

And if you just want to play a shooter with no abilities then she is a bad chioce again, as her stats are overall below-average.

accelerant+fireball and corrosive aura... dat 120 damage wow 90 dot!

Edited July 7, 2014 by Monolake

[Garuger]

The balance of this game is already at the point where you can solo lvl60s with max weapons and perma CC with many frames and infinitely scaling  damage from some abilities.

Should we nerf everything from frames to weapons or buff the outsiders like Ember and Oberon?  They are far below the 'balance' median and seen as useless.  Who needs a supposedly  'damage frame' when even combined her skills do 10 times less than a single Brakk shot

And if you just want to play a shooter with no abilities then she is a bad chioce again, as her stats are overall below-average.

 

 

accelerant+fireball and corrosive aura... dat 120 damage wow 90 dot! 

NERFFFFFF

[RealPandemonium]

The balance of this game is already at the point where you can solo lvl60s with max weapons and perma CC with many frames and infinitely scaling  damage from some abilities.

Yeah, that isn't balance.  Weapon damage needs to be toned down and godmode abilities scaled back.  People are so reliant on these options that essentially don't require the player to actually play the game that they insist that everything else is useless. 

Edited July 7, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[Garuger]

Yeah, that isn't balance.  Weapon damage needs to be toned down and godmode abilities scaled back.  People are so reliant on these options that essentially don't require the player to actually play the game that they insist that everything else is useless. 

In order to have blance there must br an end game a cap that says ths is the max amount of health the enemie will have to balance the abilities and do the proper damage.What we have now is infinte scale of our abilities along with infinity scales of enemies you can  not balance infinite we need end game .There is a cap of course there is and some clans are dedicatead to find that so far they reach wave 235 and enemies levels were 300+ and my guess is that the cap is around 999 level but you cant balance warframes /weapons if the lowest  level is around 1+ to 999.If we had a cap around 120~160 level everything would be buffed /nerfed according to that 

Edited July 7, 2014 by Garuger

[(PSN)CryoPariah]

Still even if thy fail in concept they can be extremly usefull Oberon can heal and his radiation ult is perfect for napalms and generally Grineer . Also Nekros helps with ridiculsy RNG mods such as malicious raptors .Not to mention that those 3 frames (Oberon,Valkyr,Nekros) were the most rushed ones . Indeed thy need to be touched so they can be in their theme but they are not in level of EMber

For my tastes, fitting a concept or theme of a Warframe is far more interesting than power level. I would gladly play with a weak warframe (like how I play with Ember) if they fit their theme than if I had the option of one that was super powerful and could turn into a Death Star then crush the entire solar system, and yet his/her role was supposed to be a 'healer'. 

Other than that, Oberon has his uses currently and they are slim. He does possess healing, but it is outclassed completely because it's so situational (For his 3, Allies must be close, must have lost health already, useful revive bug no longer works, the healing ribbons have to seek them out...very slowly, and the total health they can recover is limited). Even Nekros pumps out more health orbs just by spamming his Desecrate all over the place. Even if we skip over Trinity and her healing, pretty much any Warframe in your cell can heal health better with a maxed out Rejuvenation aura that heals passively.Yes, he does have some innate radiation, but any weapon with a high status chance (Tysis) is better suited for causing confusion on your enemies. Yes, Oberon can spam his 4 to knock enemies down and deal damage...but so can many other Warframes, so what makes him special other than his gorgeous appearance and pretty effects?

You're right, Nekros does indeed help with the nightmare of RNG, but that is the entire flaw with his design and Warframe in general; he's not a grim/evil/dark master of death, he is a shovel to dig up shiny things. Desecrate is an ability that is used by Necessity only, not because people actually want to spend their time mashing 3 over corpses hoping that stance mod or life support will pop up. DE could easily stick that on a Sentinel and make it an ability, but then Nekros would be pretty much abandoned because his poorly designed trick is no longer needed. Desecrate highlights a huge problem with the game, and that why it is used so much (and Nekros' sole purpose other than looking cool).

[RyojinOrion]

You can freely shoot while casting Fire Ball, btw.  I'm testing out Fire Blast since I may have overlooked some of its usefulness.  So far, though, casting 1 does much more damage while hitting the same area, is more consistent, and costs much less energy.  Maybe 3 can be ok serving as a wall against Infested but even then it doesn't really open up any possibilities that weren't already there.  How are you using it?

 

Yes, but for the effect you described, you'd have to be aiming almost straight down, and well, not many enemies are gonna be straight down, so the point more or less stands. Also, didn't know you could shoot during the casting animation.

 

As for how I use #3... It usually varies greatly from situation to situation, but most often, I usually throw down about three or four of em so that they all intersect and create a larger area of damage at a point where enemies are most likely to walk. Yes, this costs more energy than just spamming #1 a couple of times, but it lasts much longer than Fireball (At least 20 seconds on my current build) and I can focus purely on shooting things from there instead of worrying about having to keep the Fireball spam going. To get the same damage duration and total (Including my gun damage) with Fireball as I do with Fire Blast, I would have to expend much more energy. Granted, the damage would be higher, but the energy cost isn't worth it for me, compared to the it. And yeah, I usually use Ember against Infested, but then again, I usually fight the Infested over Corpus, Grineer, or Corrupted most of the time anyway.

 

But again, don't get me wrong... I do think Ember could use a buff or a rework. I just don't think she is completely useless, and I don't think she should be focused on before certain other frames.

 

 

 

 

 

As for the rest of the posts in the thread that caught my interest... Well, I'm going to wait until I am more than half awake to address those. For now... Sleep!

Edited July 7, 2014 by RyojinOrion

[Garuger]

For my tastes, fitting a concept or theme of a Warframe is far more interesting than power level. I would gladly play with a weak warframe (like how I play with Ember) if they fit their theme than if I had the option of one that was super powerful and could turn into a Death Star then crush the entire solar system, and yet his/her role was supposed to be a 'healer'. 

Other than that, Oberon has his uses currently and they are slim. He does possess healing, but it is outclassed completely because it's so situational (For his 3, Allies must be close, must have lost health already, useful revive bug no longer works, the healing ribbons have to seek them out...very slowly, and the total health they can recover is limited). Even Nekros pumps out more health orbs just by spamming his Desecrate all over the place. Even if we skip over Trinity and her healing, pretty much any Warframe in your cell can heal health better with a maxed out Rejuvenation aura that heals passively.Yes, he does have some innate radiation, but any weapon with a high status chance (Tysis) is better suited for causing confusion on your enemies. Yes, Oberon can spam his 4 to knock enemies down and deal damage...but so can many other Warframes, so what makes him special other than his gorgeous appearance and pretty effects?

You're right, Nekros does indeed help with the nightmare of RNG, but that is the entire flaw with his design and Warframe in general; he's not a grim/evil/dark master of death, he is a shovel to dig up shiny things. Desecrate is an ability that is used by Necessity only, not because people actually want to spend their time mashing 3 over corpses hoping that stance mod or life support will pop up. DE could easily stick that on a Sentinel and make it an ability, but then Nekros would be pretty much abandoned because his poorly designed trick is no longer needed. Desecrate highlights a huge problem with the game, and that why it is used so much (and Nekros' sole purpose other than looking cool).

I dont say that every warframe ust be OP to have fun i mean my fav warframe is Valkyr but Ember is just ember try to cast your ult you are dead even if you use accelerants fisrt her 4 is 2.2 seconds long that ult should be at least 1 sec or less like the other frames have .If you stay still for 2 sec you become a target and you cant do anything about it only fun ability she has is accelerant and fireball stun and ball of fire that is about it .You cant run too far with her because poor stamina/run speed and she cant take many hits because of low health and shields not to mention your low visibility uyou wiull have when you activate her powers especially her 3 and 4

[Vargras]

and why should i be FORCED to use ignis with no gas/blast/radiation effect?

accelerant only works on fire dmg.  not fire combo dmg.

 

what if i want to use ignis with gas dmg instead of fire. huh? you lose SO MUCH POTENTIAL due to not being allowed to use any elemental combos cause of accelerant.

 

 

like my 2ndary weapon. a Magnus with so much status proc chance.  how? i have alot of event mods.  but none are affected by accelerant cause they are all fire element combos.   not pure fire.

Accelerant probably should be tweaked to allow both heat damage and heat combos. In its current state, you can have one weapon with just heat on it, and your other combos on your other weapons, and still be fine -- that, however, can be somewhat limiting in terms of gameplay.

 

Again, keep in mind that Accelerant increases all heat damage taken from all sources. This applies to weapons and powers from yourself and your team.

 

But again, don't get me wrong... I do think Ember could use a buff or a rework. I just don't think she is completely useless, and I don't think she should be focused on before certain other frames.

This is basically how I feel about it. Ember could definitely use some buffs or a rework, but there's other frames that need it much more than she does.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Vargras

[Nyxcha]

Accelerant probably should be tweaked to allow both heat damage and heat combos. In its current state, you can have one weapon with just heat on it, and your other combos on your other weapons, and still be fine -- that, however, can be somewhat limiting in terms of gameplay.

 

Again, keep in mind that Accelerant increases all heat damage taken from all sources. This applies to weapons and powers from yourself and your team.

 

This is basically how I feel about it. Ember could definitely use some buffs or a rework, but there's other frames that need it much more than she does.

 

so everyone is agreed? heat combos need to be affected (cause honestly. i never see people use just fire abilitys other than embers being chained down by accelerant.

 

also. oberon + ember.   Oberon has radiation skills.  so having these 2 in the same group would lead to warframe combos.   a bit like excalibur+mag.

 

(and....unfortunatly...ember +nova.....nova's 1.8k dmg per target AoE blasts....are blast...and so with ember's +500% fire combo buff.....ok i see a problem there.   but the problem isn't ember. its nova. NERF NOVA)

[DeadScream]

You should just admit Ember is an anti-Infested frame and has no reason to be used against other factions (still useful against Grineer imho). 

 

If I had to rework her : 

 

- Buff sprint speed to 1.1 

 

- Force fire proc on all enemies under accelerant's stun phase, and on every WoF explosion.

 

- Maybe add % blast proc chances on WoF too, allowing for a little more CC. 

 

 

 

Keep in mind that Accelerant + Fire Ball + headshot = monster damage.

[Garuger]

You should just admit Ember is an anti-Infested frame and has no reason to be used against other factions (still useful against Grineer imho). 

 

If I had to rework her : 

 

- Buff sprint speed to 1.1 

 

- Force fire proc on all enemies under accelerant's stun phase, and on every WoF explosion.

 

- Maybe add % blast proc chances on WoF too, allowing for a little more CC. 

 

 

 

Keep in mind that Accelerant + Fire Ball + headshot = monster damage.

Well Infestd is not in solar map anymore and ony in ODD/ODS wich makes her the only positive about her even more rare 

[DeadScream]

Well Infestd is not in solar map anymore and ony in ODD/ODS wich makes her the only positive about her even more rare 

They're comming back U14, just wait 2-3 weeks lol

[Garuger]

They're comming back U14, just wait 2-3 weeks lol

Dont think so u14 is only about Kubrows and ships they dd not mention anything about the infested

[gnat6]

Dont think so u14 is only about Kubrows and ships they dd not mention anything about the infested

Um your info is really out of date a major component of update 14 is the infested returning to the star map led by the reworked J3 golem.

[Nyxcha]

You should just admit Ember is an anti-Infested frame and has no reason to be used against other factions (still useful against Grineer imho). 

 

If I had to rework her : 

 

- Buff sprint speed to 1.1 

 

- Force fire proc on all enemies under accelerant's stun phase, and on every WoF explosion.

 

- Maybe add % blast proc chances on WoF too, allowing for a little more CC. 

 

 

 

Keep in mind that Accelerant + Fire Ball + headshot = monster damage.

still need to make accelerant effect fire combo effects like blast and gas

[Garuger]

Um your info is really out of date a major component of update 14 is the infested returning to the star map led by the reworked J3 golem.

Good to know that then 

[(PSN)CryoPariah]

I dont say that every warframe ust be OP to have fun i mean my fav warframe is Valkyr but Ember is just ember try to cast your ult you are dead even if you use accelerants fisrt her 4 is 2.2 seconds long that ult should be at least 1 sec or less like the other frames have.

Her Accelerant's stun time can be buffed with mods to last for 4 seconds. Beyond that, with Natural Talent her casting time can be decreased by quite a bit. 

[RealPandemonium]

Her Accelerant's stun time can be buffed with mods to last for 4 seconds. Beyond that, with Natural Talent her casting time can be decreased by quite a bit. 

Accelerant's stun is not affected by duration mods and NT is probably not worth equipping over a duration or durability mod. 

[Nyxcha]

Her Accelerant's stun time can be buffed with mods to last for 4 seconds. Beyond that, with Natural Talent her casting time can be decreased by quite a bit. 

nope. her stun time is based randomly on what animation the enemy uses.  so its all RNG.