An Exploration Of The Representation Of Gender/sex In Warframe (Authorised Redux)

[artemisfortune]

I'll give this a go.

 

You'll notice in most MMO banner ads you see a scantily clad woman beckoning for you to come "play with her" and then upon joining that MMO, you'll notice that you can pay real life money to give her more cleavage, maybe even tighter underwear, and people do pay for this stuff. Warframe offers garments you can buy that add on to the original skintight suit. Now, as for the reason those suits are skintight, I'd like to point something out. Women, or beings portrayed in a feminine fashion, do not have to be hunched over with their breasts popping out and their lady parts bulging like something out of High School of the Dead, and DE doesn't do that with Warframe.

 

The female form is different from the male form. I myself do not enjoy sex of any kind, it bothers me, yet I am still attracted to women because their body shape (no matter who you are) is more appealing to me. I think that even a majority of homosexual men can agree that the female form is still quite beautiful. So where does this come in to play with Warframe? Well, if DE had decided to give nyx these wild adornments on her frame, like Rhino or Hydroid, I think it would take away from the beauty of her. The male form is not very attractive, it requires some attachments so it's not a bland looking upside-down flask. So no, I don't think the female frames are more sexualized, I think they are just unlucky enough to be views as women, and not characters. Which is what this comes down to. Women in society are supposed to be upholded and revered, but in reality, it doesn't matter what gender you are, or how your gender acts. I always viewed Ember as a seductive character, so I think that her style and model fit her. If we ever get lore, I'll be surprised if she isn't some super sexy bounty hunter.

[Duexelim]

This happens in everything, ever. EVER.

Human nature, I suppose.

I've seen some...let's just say I've seen (more than I ever desried to see) "scandalous" fanart of some of the male frames almost as much (if not as much) as the female ones. (Especially Frost for some reason.)

[Radford_343]

I've seen some...let's just say I've seen (more than I ever desried to see) "scandalous" fanart of some of the male frames almost as much (if not as much) as the female ones. (Especially Frost for some reason.)

 

Snow globe and dress.

 

:)

Edited July 17, 2014 by Radford_343

[Ribboz]

I still wish we could pick which gender we want for our frame. I would pay money for that.

 

Edit: wanted to be more specific.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Ribboz

[Rajko]

I'd say that that is what the stances are for. I don't think anyone can look at Ember's noble idles and not imagine her as a cocky, spunky lass.[/quote

I get a self assured and powerful, strong sense from Ember's noble stance. Actually I didnt like the frame until i saw the noble stance.

I also appreciate the subtle decision to start frames in a neutral animation set, it sets up a different sort of discovery as you first meet your new frame.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Rajko

[SinReplica]

Bottom line: More customization equals more immersion, which in turn equals more fun.

 

I don't know if it'll ever happen, but having M/F frames for all "classes" could never be a bad thing. Unless they're putting their foot down with the lore....the lore....I'll stop...yeah...

Edited July 17, 2014 by SinReplica

[Corvid]

Because women with breasts that don't work are absolutely accepted and men with "working" ones aren't, right?

 

Nah. The former still can't show hers and the latter can still show his.

 

Try again.

 

Please read the second part of my response to you.

 

Primary sexual characteristics are invariable. They always appear in near-identical forms based on whether the individual person is male or female (example being the respective genitals).

 

Secondary characteristics often have significant variation in their proportions, but are nonetheless always present in one form or another (examples of variation include breast size, body type and hip width).

 

Finally, Tertiary characteristics are entirely determined by the personal tastes, and can easily be changed. Examples include hairstyle, and choice of clothing/accessories.

 

I thought with enough stimulation, they can be.

 

False. They physically lack the necessary glands to produce milk. It's only in fringe cases where that can actually apply.

[zergla]

To me Embers agile animation simply shows how she, as character, is comfortable with "showing off" and being attractive, which to me is completely fine. If a women is comfortable with her body, more power to her.

[CaptainJohnson]

It's really not fair to refer to the sexualization of 'frames in R34-esque material while on the topic. There is some pretty lewd stuff going on there with males, too, mind you. It doesn't matter, though, because these artists are simply drawing what they enjoy and there's nothing wrong with expressing human sexuality like that, especially since these are merely 2D images.

 

These artists are in no way claiming that female 'frames are less important, powerful, or real than male ones. More than likely, they're just drawn by straight males (or homosexual females) who drawn R34 material of female 'frames because that is what they're attracted to. Not some anti-female agenda they have hidden away.

 

Please, let's not be ultra-puritanical about stuff you find on the dirtier side of the internet because those things are not really relevant to a discussion of gender representation in Warframe, or even how the community treats the females in the game itself.

[(PSN)infuriatedplayer]

That's reading too much into it. Another person believed that her power "Hysteria" promoted the idea that women are over-emotional, which is a ridiculous.

take at her physique too. She is pretty much the closest warframe will get to fan service. That's also my opinion on valkyr- a screaming and hysterical almost child-like female unable to control her emotion which is a bit understandable giving her traumatic creation in the hands of salad V but i do still question Valkyr's "personality" when she is surrounded by strong and capable female warframes. Edited July 17, 2014 by (PS4)infuriatedplayer

[Corvid]

To me Embers agile animation simply shows how she, as character, is comfortable with "showing off" and being attractive, which to me is completely fine. If a women is comfortable with her body, more power to her.

 

True, true. Confidence does seem to be one of her traits.

 

Then again, there's so much that is open to interpretation, I don't know what to think.

 

take at hear physique too. She is pretty much the closest warframe will get to fan service. That's also my opinion on valkyr- a screaming and hysterical almost child-like female unable to control her emotion which is a bit understandable giving her traumatic creation in the hands of salad V but I do still question Valkyr's "personality" when she is surrounded by strong and capable female warframes.

 

Hm... Perhaps she stands out because of her origin? Perhaps she learned to focus her rage?

 

After all, she is the product of a dissection, one cannot imagine anyone coming out of her experiences without some mental scars.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Corvid

[Duexelim]

Snow globe and dress.

 

:)

If I only were so lucky to stumble upon something so modest...Sadly, I wasn't.

[PeripheralVisionary]

False. They physically lack the necessary glands to produce milk. It's only in fringe cases where that can actually apply.

Oh, so I was wasting my time.

[GlamourChariot]

Please read the second part of my response to you.

 

Primary sexual characteristics are invariable. They always appear in near-identical forms based on whether the individual person is male or female (example being the respective genitals).

 

Secondary characteristics often have significant variation in their proportions, but are nonetheless always present in one form or another (examples of variation include breast size, body type and hip width).

 

Finally, Tertiary characteristics are entirely determined by the personal tastes, and can easily be changed. Examples include hairstyle, and choice of clothing/accessories.

 

 

False. They physically lack the necessary glands to produce milk. It's only in fringe cases where that can actually apply.

 

Intersex people.

 

Try again, friendo.

[PeripheralVisionary]

take at hear physique too. She is pretty much the closest warframe will get to fan service. That's also my opinion on valkyr- a screaming and hysterical almost child-like female unable to control her emotion which is a bit understandable giving her traumatic creation in the hands of salad V but i do still question Valkyr's "personality" when she is surrounded by strong and capable female warframes.

She reminds me a bit of Vasquez from Aliens strangely enough.

[Corvid]

Intersex people.

 

Try again, friendo.

 

Genetic flukes which cannot be held to the same standard. I would appreciate it if you wouldn't patronise me.

[Turnoverman]

I know I'm in the minority on this one, but I think treating Warframe as even having gender stuff is hilarious.

 

My Tenno is the same guy no matter what frame he's in. (I sorta imagine that he looks like Hayden) Just because he's wearing Valkyr doesn't make him a girl, and a girl's wearing Frost doesn't make her a guy.

 

As far as I'm concerned, the Tenno couldn't possibly care less about gender, let alone gender roles, if they even know what those are. They're based off whoever made the first one. The chick that Salad experimented on was a chick, so Valkyr's a chick. My guy has absolutely no problem with that and wears it for the armor, health, and Warcry. It's no different from him putting on his Hydroid for the sake of CC. A suit's a suit's a suit.

 

I mean, the genders exist from a design standpoint, but that's purely on our end. I mean, if people were so comportable with crossdressing full body suits as the Tenno are ("We need a Nyx. Switch out of your Rhino." "K."), would crossdressing even be a concept? And if crossdressing didn't exist, and nobody ever saw anyone else outside of their suits, why would separation of gender even be a thing? Tenno are Tenno, and which Warframe they're wearing changes that no more than which guns they have.

[LoopStricken]

I get a hard-@$$ and powerful, strong sense from Ember's noble stance.

 

Perhaps self-assured is a good description.

[PeripheralVisionary]

I mean, the genders exist from a design standpoint, but that's purely on our end. I mean, if people were so comportable with crossdressing full body suits as the Tenno are ("We need a Nyx. Switch out of your Rhino." "K."), would crossdressing even be a concept? And if crossdressing didn't exist, and nobody ever saw anyone else outside of their suits, why would separation of gender even be a thing? Tenno are Tenno, and which Warframe they're wearing changes that no more than which guns they have.

Wouldn't this just mean the breasts we see are just padding? I think they do have a gender, but a culture with little in terms of gender roles.

Edited July 17, 2014 by PeripheralVisionary

[CaptainJohnson]

Intersex people.

 

Try again, friendo.

 

Huh, slightly off-topic, but an intersex/androgynous 'frame would be an interesting idea if handled correctly. It's not like it would fundamentally change how the 'frame would work, so I don't see why it wouldn't be possible. Then again, it'd be hard to convey that sort of thing with the warframe's design, so maybe the idea isn't really worth it. Plus, I don't trust the community not to treat an intersex/androgynous character as a bad thing, which would be supremely disappointing to deal with.

 

Also, your current discussion is really starting to derail the thread. Not that it isn't a worthwhile discussion, but I'm not really sure it matters in the context of gender representation of Warframe.

[PeripheralVisionary]

A futa-frame!

[Corvid]

I know I'm in the minority on this one, but I think treating Warframe as even having gender stuff is hilarious.

 

My Tenno is the same guy no matter what frame he's in. (I sorta imagine that he looks like Hayden) Just because he's wearing Valkyr doesn't make him a girl, and a girl's wearing Frost doesn't make her a guy.

 

As far as I'm concerned, the Tenno couldn't possibly care less about gender, let alone gender roles, if they even know what those are. They're based off whoever made the first one. The chick that Salad experimented on was a chick, so Valkyr's a chick. My guy has absolutely no problem with that and wears it for the armor, health, and Warcry. It's no different from him putting on his Hydroid for the sake of CC. A suit's a suit's a suit.

 

I mean, the genders exist from a design standpoint, but that's purely on our end. I mean, if people were so comportable with crossdressing full body suits as the Tenno are ("We need a Nyx. Switch out of your Rhino." "K."), would crossdressing even be a concept? And if crossdressing didn't exist, and nobody ever saw anyone else outside of their suits, why would separation of gender even be a thing? Tenno are Tenno, and which Warframe they're wearing changes that no more than which guns they have.

 

You imply that this is not a meta-discussion of Warframe's portrayal of feminine vs masculine characters. Regardless of your headcanon, the fact remains that half of the frames have female characteristics. The topic of discussion is whether or not Warframe's portrayal is respectful.

[CaptainJohnson]

-snip-

 

To be quite honest, I'm not sure if that's true. We just don't know enough about the lore of Warframe to make that assertion, so despite what you personally believe on the matter, it makes more sense to deal with gender as it exists from what we know, and what we know are the 'frames themselves. We treat them like distinct characters because that's what they're presented as.

[LoopStricken]

A futa-frame!

 

Ember again.

[Corvid]

 

 

 

Let's not go off-topic, people. This is straying into territory that I'd rather avoid.