Vitality, Vigor And Redirection Scaling Suggestion

[HitPointPredator]

Most of us know that Redirection, Vitality and Vigor increase the health and the shield of our Warframe.

What people might not know is that these values are increased based upon the Warframe's base stats, aka the stats the Warframe had as unranked. 

 

A little math for people who like it.

Valkyr has 100 health unranked and 300 in total when she is rank 30. 

If we equip a maxed Vitality mod which gives us a hefty 440% bonus health, Valkyr ends up with a total of 740 health.

(100 (Health of an unranked Valkyr) x 4.4 (Maxed Vitality)) + 300 (Health of a rank 30 Valkyr) = 740.

 

Now to my suggestion!

Let mods like Vitality scale based upon the current health of the Warframe.

 

Time for math again.

This time we are going straight for a Valkyr who is rank 30 and equips a maxed Vitality mod.

(300 (Health of a rank 30 Valkyr) x 4.4 (Maxed Vitality)) + 300 (Health of a rank 30 Valkyr) = 1620 health.

 

A large increase in health for our already over the top tanky Valkyr. 

Of course, the mods affected by this change would need to undergo some tweaking to not make it freaking overpowered.

But the main point of this suggestion is that now it would be easier to understand the mods. I see people on the forums who ask why their Warframe don't have x hp despite them having Vitality on. It just doesn't make any sense that the mods scale on base stats instead of current ones.

 

Feel free to leave a comment or something on this about what you think.

Edited July 26, 2014 by HitPointPredator

[sekushiiandee]

hmm....youre right....never noticed that it only scales base health and shields

[Renegade343]

I like the current system of Vitality, Redirection and Vigor, although I did propose that the Physique Aura be scaled upon maximum health of the Warframe (will be written on the mod card, while Vitality, Redirection and Vigor will have '+X% Health/Shields from base Health/Shields'). 

[Methanoid]

ive always thought its a bit weird/silly that fitting a max rank hp/shield mod on an unranked frame bags you craptons of HP, i always felt hp/shield%'s should scale taking frame rank into account as well.

 

frame stat buff mods should scale off a frames current rank not base stats mostly to avoid ppl taking unranked frames with a max rank vitality + their penta/ogris to high lvl infested or ODD etc and ranking up easymode without fear of death.

 

If your frames Unranked and you fit a max rank Vitality you should still have low health, not an absurd high amount.

[Destroyalord7]

Maybe, it's a good idea... but some things, like Valkyr would be a tad unfair. I mean, the invulnerability, the huge amount of armor she already has... then +steel fibre, then her buff ability...

 

She might be just a TAD too strong.

[Methanoid]

Maybe, it's a good idea... but some things, like Valkyr would be a tad unfair. I mean, the invulnerability, the huge amount of armor she already has... then +steel fibre, then her buff ability...

 

She might be just a TAD too strong.

 

you just change the %'s so that max rank vitality/etc on a rank30 frame still ends up as it does now, it doesnt need to ramp any higher.

[HitPointPredator]

you just change the %'s so that max rank vitality/etc on a rank30 frame still ends up as it does now, it doesnt need to ramp any higher.

 

Exactly this.

I stated that the percentages needed some tweaking if the mods were to use this type of scaling. 

[HitPointPredator]

hmm....youre right....never noticed that it only scales base health and shields

 

I know right, some people don't know this and gets awfully confused.

[Wiegraf]

Problem is, if you scale off of the current health instead of a base and scale down the amount per rank, having a low ranked Warframe means the scaling will be incredibly low.

 

While not a bad thing overall, it means low ranked Warframes will be harder to rank up since they'll be more fragile. The current system allows a Warframe with an Aura or at least a few ranks to get a decent boost in Health/Shield/Energy/Armor regardless of if their current values are low; they'll get less than another which has higher stats but the bonus will be more significant.

 

For example, let's compare two extremes :

 

Ash with 150 Health at rank 0, 450 Health at rank 30

Loki with 75 Health at rank 0, 225 Health at rank 30

 

Using the current scaling based on the base health at 440% :

 

Ash has 810 Health at rank 0, 1110 Health at rank 30

Loki has 405 Health at rank 0,  555 Health at rank 30

 

Using a scaling based on your current maximum Health at, let's say 220% maximum (assuming that kind of scaling would lessen the bonus given by Vitality) :

 

Ash has 480 Health at rank 0, 1440 Health at rank 30 (would be 810/2448 with maximum scaling with a 440% mod)

Loki has 240 Health at rank 0, 720 Health at rank 30 (would be 405/1215 with maximum scaling with a 440% mod)

 

Both get about 1.6x more health at rank 0 (again, assuming you have an aura equipped to give you the necessary CP and perhaps a favorable polarity) with the current system while having only ~77% of the amount they'd have at rank 30 if it scaled from their maximum. It means that while you do get a bonus even with maximum-based scaling, the bonus is more significant a good headway towards rank 30 which actually helps greatly new warframes or those you polarize.

 

It also helps in knowing exactly how much net gain you'd get per frame with every mod's rank, for example gaining 40 more health per mod rank on a Warframe with 100 base health. Also, while 23% less Health at rank 30 is significant, it 

 

---

 

But otherwise, I do agree that it's poorly explained; I remember that at one point during closed or close to the start of open beta (it's been a while), the scaling used to be based on your maximum then was changed to be based on your rank 0 base value especially to avoid such 'explosive' growth and make the mods more significant, per rank, for a low ranked Warframe. It was noted in the patch details but a lot of people were surprised to see their Frosts now having way less shields all of a sudden.

 

Or was it a straight +X Health/Shield per rank? (Someone correct me if I'm wrong there; it's really been a long time)

 

As is, the current system benefits mostly an unranked or low ranked Warframe with a noticeable boost which is far more viable then than when reaching the max rank. Still gives a good chunk more Health/Shield/Energy/Armor even at max rank, but not ridiculously so. Else while it may make some Warframes more tough, it will make already tough warframe even tougher which just goes back around to the same state overall; you just happen to have higher max rank numbers and more fragile, unranked / low ranked warframes.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Wiegraf

[Methanoid]

While not a bad thing overall, it means low ranked Warframes will be harder to rank up since they'll be more fragile. The current system allows a Warframe with an Aura or at least a few ranks to get a decent boost in Health/Shield/Energy/Armor regardless of if their current values are low; they'll get less than another which has higher stats but the bonus will be more significant.

 

isnt the "low ranked / low health" thing exactly why we have a whole starmap thats lvl tiered, its insane to expect a low rank warframe even on a vet player to be able to rock eris/pluto as unranked or even partially ranked, you should quite rightly be back in mercury working your way back up.

 

thats why the current system has always been a joke, ALL my new/forma'd warframed i just slap on a max rank aura mod + vitality and go play in xini with any OP weapon and you still have stupid high health, this clearly is wrong but we all abuse it, we should be going back to mercury and advancing up thru the starmap/difficulty as we lvl.

[Wiegraf]

isnt the "low ranked / low health" thing exactly why we have a whole starmap thats lvl tiered, its insane to expect a low rank warframe even on a vet player to be able to rock eris/pluto as unranked or even partially ranked, you should quite rightly be back in mercury working your way back up.

 

thats why the current system has always been a joke, ALL my new/forma'd warframed i just slap on a max rank aura mod + vitality and go play in xini with any OP weapon and you still have stupid high health, this clearly is wrong but we all abuse it, we should be going back to mercury and advancing up thru the starmap/difficulty as we lvl.

 

So basically, you're saying that if you have an unranked warframe, you should limit yourself to low level missions and slow down your ranking up further even if you would have the means to take on harder missions and catch up more quickly?

 

While I can understand your first, second and third Warframe taking time to rank up since your mods aren't even leveled yet, once you've been playing for hundred of hours, have unlocked the full star chart, are at your Xth Warframe to rank up and have several weapons that can take down Lv.30 and above enemies in 1 or 2 shots, I'm sure you'd be glad to have the option to go to harder missions right away since you can compensate your low ranked Warframe with mods you've nurtured for quite a while.

 

Also, since you're carrying that kind of godly weaponry, wouldn't it instead ruin the experience of new players on Mercury, Venus and Earth that an unranked Warframe comes in and cleans house? Wouldn't it make more sense that you can actually follow along people who are further in and manage well enough without ruining their first impressions of the game?

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

Well, again, like i ways say, they buffed the enemies by giving them some arguably OP units, by scaling ridiculously their armor and forgot about our frames, not weaponry, not abilities (except for some of course who need a revamp, like oberon, nekros, etc), i really mean their stats, and such changes proposed by tc in the op are a really good start.

[Methanoid]

So basically, you're saying that if you have an unranked warframe, you should limit yourself to low level missions and slow down your ranking up further even if you would have the means to take on harder missions and catch up more quickly?

 

While I can understand your first, second and third Warframe taking time to rank up since your mods aren't even leveled yet, once you've been playing for hundred of hours, have unlocked the full star chart, are at your Xth Warframe to rank up and have several weapons that can take down Lv.30 and above enemies in 1 or 2 shots, I'm sure you'd be glad to have the option to go to harder missions right away since you can compensate your low ranked Warframe with mods you've nurtured for quite a while.

 

Also, since you're carrying that kind of godly weaponry, wouldn't it instead ruin the experience of new players on Mercury, Venus and Earth that an unranked Warframe comes in and cleans house? Wouldn't it make more sense that you can actually follow along people who are further in and manage well enough without ruining their first impressions of the game?

 

its been proven previously several times that running a nice long appolodorus has minimal differences to running say xini xp-wise and yes if your unranked you should be in low ranked places then as you lvl up you move to higher difficulty areas.  i dont see your issue, yeah your warframe would be squisher and it should be, but you'd still be rocking around with your boltor prime anhialating everything anyways.

 

your example of being a "vet" player thats unlocked the starchart, collected everything going, MR16 etc shouldnt have any significance when you jump into an unranked warframe even if youve just forma'd it 6x in a row, and currently it doesnt, this is about the ranking of vitality/vigor etc.

 

the issue we have now is an old one, shared with pretty much any/every game out there, WOW was always very bad for it, basically making everything "old/completed" utterly obsolete leaving you with less to do and fewer places to visit, warframe has the potential to encourage you to visit low to high ranked nodes while leveling, this hopefully will be improved over time if/when more planets get differing tilesets, we get soem visual variety as we lvl.

[PeanutMonster]

Or DE could just tweak the mod description, which is probably much quicker thing to do.

Edited August 9, 2014 by PeanutMonster