Why Picking Loki Was A Big Mistake

[Yanniboi]

Hello,

 

first of all bravo to Digital Extremes, the game so far is amazing and it's got massive potentials of becoming one of the best games of 2013, for me at least. The FX of the game deserve a special mention since they are simply stunning, well done to the artists and to the Art Directors. 

 

Regarding Loki though, I really enjoy playing him don't get me wrong. He's fun with unique game play and some nice skills. I've only been playing this game for a couple of weeks and I only recently (a few days ago) discovered/understood most of the game mechanics. It feels though, like Loki is the weakest (not stat-wise), and dare I say most useless, out of all the Warframes. I generally enjoy playing stealthy characters in most of my RPG games and I have to admit playing Loki isn't like I thought it would be.

 

I knew straight from the beginning that his stats are the weakest compared to the rest but that's not the issue here. To make up for his weak stats you gave him Invisibility (and the Decoy) and his purpose is sort of an assassin, not a tank, not a support, that's fine. I think he is meant to be causing sort of "confusion" in the battlefield, mess with the enemies with his Decoy, swap positions and create a bit of chaos (not Nyx-chaos though) like a trickster.The thing is though without his invisibility he dies straight away, he can't hold any damage whatsoever and his damage potential is low as well. So why pick Loki and not Mag, or Excalibur? It's personal preference, but other than reviving his allies invisible or forcing the enemies to attack his Decoy he doesn't offer anything else to the team, literally. 

 

His ulti, is absolutely useless. In a team of 2 or 4 why spend 100 Energy to disarm the enemies when Volt, Saryn or Mag can kill every enemy around them and not have to bother fighting those unarmed enemies. His Switch Teleport, well the only use that I find is to swap my Decoy in areas where it's hard to reach. You can't save your ally, since it's almost impossible to select your friend when they are surrounded by a bunch of enemies, so I spend its 25 Energy cost to swap myself with allies when they can't cross the laser gates, Loki saves the day (!).

 

His Decoy dies within seconds in high level missions even if you've maxed it out. And needless to mention that in many cases your own Decoy is blocking your team's projectiles. Maybe bad Decoy positioning yes, but isn't a bit too much? During a chaotic mass fight where there are 8-15 enemies you, as a Loki, have to make sure to place the Decoy behind the enemies (so they move further away from your team and your Decoy doesn't block the projectiles) while at the same time not miles away so the enemies are actually "affected" by the Decoy. Some times I'm wondering if it's even worth spending the 25 Energy to have a Decoy for 1-2 seconds.

 

So I spend most of my energy using invisibility, first of all to avoid death and second of all to deal a bit extra damage. I can see the concept behind Loki I just think it doesn't really work (yet). The extra melee damage, which I thought in the beginning was 100% Crit chance (so I was stacking crit damage), doesn't make a massive difference and it's supposed to be (at least I think it is) one of the bonuses of Loki. So what I do is, I stealth go inside the mob knock them all down with my sword and start slashing while hoping that before my stealth dissipates they will all be dead, or, in case I haven't got enough Energy to recast the skill, that I'll survive long enough to escape the mob.

 

And yes you have given him more Energy than other Warframes so he can use his skills a lot more but still I personally think that Loki could use a lot more love and maybe even a rework on his ulti. In the beginning I was excited playing him, now I can't wait to finish crafting Nyx so I can hopefully enjoy this game even more. Maybe I'm not playing him right or maybe I'm being clumsy with his invisibility but if I could turn back time and pick Mag or Excalibur, trust me, I would. Don't consider this post a "whinny post", I do enjoy playing him and I think I do fairly well with him, I'm just slightly tired of being so needy of Energy in order to use the character to it's "fullest" (not really fullest since I never ever use his ulti) potentials.

 

Thank you and sorry for the massive wall of text. 

 

EDIT: Sorry I posted it in the wrong section, if a moderator could move it to the "Gameplay Feedback" section, I'd appreciate it. Thanks. 

Edited April 15, 2013 by Yanniboi

[Ronkyu]

no tl;dr dont care

[Paptimus]

Decoy can be placed on strategical positions so that the enemy has a hard time killing it but still tries, his invisibility is a blessing and his ult is awesome, specially soloing(except against infested for obvious reasons)

 

Loki is one of the few suits i can say that i like all abilities(altho switch teleport is a bit situational)

Edited April 15, 2013 by Paptimus

[Astral_Waffle]

Have you maxed invisibility and do you use energy management mods and the ability duration mod? If you aren't building yourself to take advantage of invisibility, you can't expect to have it up all the time. Using a furax or dual zoren with charge damage, charge speed, and crit damage with whatever else you can fit in there coupled with frame mods that enhance your ability to sustain invisibility, Loki is one of the very best frames in my opinion. I started with him and once I got a decent mod setup (and the energy siphon artifact helps a lot, too) I am always using invisibility while in combat and never run out of energy, as I am one shotting every non-elite type enemy and having the energy replaced by their orb drops +siphon faster than I can use it. It's even better when you supercharge the frame and can fit sprint mods on there because the only thing limiting your kill rate is how fast you can sprint between enemies.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Astral_Waffle

[neKroMancer]

He's extraordinarily good for starter frame. You have a few things to consider.

1. Decoy works with all types of AI, regardless of the level.

2. Decoy attracts AI attention but it doesn't have much durability, where you place it is of extreme importance. It's a lure for other damage-heavy frame to use the AOE more effective.

3. Invisibility allows you to run around and ignore all damage while dealing critical damage with melee attack, coupled with the fact that charge melee is capable of deliver extremely high amount of damage - it's a good substitute for ultimates.

4. Switch teleport is something I don't really bother using.

5. Radial disarm is similar to decoy in mechanic. It works on 2/3 faction and permanently disable the main source of damage. Force them to come toward you and your team for easy kill with melee attack/AOE ultimates.

Loki is a trickster/support type of frame. He's damage potential. He has superior speed which is a requirement for proper utilizing of invisibility. He can debuff large group of enemies and turn them into Infest that can't stun.

He's not the worst, just different. I use him as my main along with Saryn.

[Synapse_X]

I have a max loki, rhino, saryn, and working on a nyx, and I find loki to be the most fun to play. He's a beast for solo speed farming bosses.

I think he just doesnt suit your playstyle.

[DishSoap]

First of all you can use Decoy+Teleport to get out of sticky situations and Decoy can also be used to distract bosses for short periods of time. Loki's invisiblity does make you do 100% criticals however, it is not effected by critical damage mods. Loki also gets a helm that gives him more energy and there are various mods that also do the same. Radial Disarm is nowhere near as bad as your making it out to be.

 

All in all maybe you should learn more about a frame before you jump up yelling it's underpowered. Maybe Ash with his "push a button damage happens" playstyle might suit you better.

Edited April 15, 2013 by DishSoap

[DetergentPod]

Loki may be a big mistake to you but for many it's one of the best warframe out there. Personally it's one of my favorite. I just got him to rank 4 and already loving it. I have about 6 other warframe at rank 30 and about 2 at 20 and 28. Loki would have to be on my top 3 favorite warframe from what I have so far. Unlike my other warframe where you just hit 4 and win Loki is more about strategy and not hit a button to instantly wipe out everything in the room. If this game had PVP, Loki would be the most hated and probably the biggest troll of a warframe. If I were to compare him to a character in another game he would be like the Spy in Team Fortress 2.

 

It's all a matter of your play style and things you find fun. I find him very useful since his invisibility allows him to crit. When you have a fast melee weapon you're dealing an enormous amount of dps. Decoy is very useful for both rushing, saving a team mate by drawing fire and surviving in solo plays. Switch Teleport can be use to save a team mate, rush faster, or survive in solo or team play. His ultimate is only useful against corpus and grineer since it force them to melee saving a team mate from dying from rain of bullet or save you from rain of bullets.

 

It's all about perspective. Just like League of Legends. Alister he does no damage what so ever, his heal is total S#&$ compare to Sona, Karma, Kyle and Soraka and dies very fast if not used properly. When I first started out I thought he was the most useless piece of crap ever invented in that game. Once I started learning to use him and knowing how to use him. He basically is a wall of diamond. His low damage is replace with crowd control saving your team mate or locking an enemy  for a kill/assist.

Same with Loki. It's all about your play style.

[Astral_Waffle]

it is not effected by critical damage mods.

Source on this?

[Staggered]

 I think they went a little bit overboard with the decoy nerfs, sometimes I place it on the ground and it falls through the ends of the earth, or it won't let me switch to it if it's merging with any terrain. Other than that Loki is fine though.

[Eric1738]

Loki is my first warframe(i chose him coz i misclicked... facepalm) and i agree that swap and his ulti is a bit underpowered. however, decoy and invis is SUPER good. Loki has great damage output with invisibility. with proper mod build, it's not hard to spam invis for maybe 1 min. the problem is u need a good weapon, i didnt enjoy Loki until i farmed some good weapon and mods from other warframes.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Eric1738

[DishSoap]

Source on this?

The Warframe Wiki

[_Rue_]

O.O 

 

if you read the text for Loki, he's for advance players, you might enjoy Excalibur or mag more... for now.

 

When U7 was new and no one had redirection or vit mods i used Loki  (yes with his 75/75 hp/shields) to survive. Decoy alone makes up for the hp/shields issue.

 

Loki is amazing with just that skill. use decoy behind cover, shoot anything that shoots it. It's a simple formula. You seem to rely on invisibility too much. You should save if for when you have a lot of energy (rank 30 + max flow), or when you're in a bad situation (need to run or need to recharge shields reload, or a combination of any and more)

 

You can disregard his ultimate, it really sucks.

 

Switch TP is nice if you know when to use it. You can use it to save people or get a tactical advantage against the enemy. I do not use it though, I just stick with invisibility and decoy.

 

I do not think there's a frame with abilities that are not situational, it's just some are easier to use than others.

 

Loki's ultimate trolls the Grineer... have you seen a heavy Grineer without a gun/rocket launcher? :) might be worth it on higher levels but for now, just skip it. Hopefully DE will give him a better ulti like mass decoy or "clone" (one that fires back and uses skills LOL).

 

One thing I would like to see though is that they make the decoy invincible. :) limited time, but invincible as opposed to Saryn's which has finite life but doesn't expire.

[raidredemption]

First of all, critical damage mods don't work on charged melee attacks (tested this myself).

 

Second of all, get these items:

Gram

Flow

Streamline

Invis

 

Third of all, perma-invis and kill everything with charged gram. Loki is insane.

[MaximumSquid]

Invis makes Loki a top contender

 

Decoy needs tweaks because it doesn't work at all for endgame content

 

Last two skills are crap, but so what? I use only 1 skill per warframe anyway. . .

That is the game you're playing; little balance so heavy use of whatever is at the top

[Eric1738]

First of all, critical damage mods don't work on charged melee attacks (tested this myself).

 

Second of all, get these items:

Gram

Flow

Streamline

Invis

 

Third of all, perma-invis and kill everything with charged gram. Loki is insane.

it works but charged attack has in general low crit chance, so definitely not good to put crit mods if u most rely on charged attack.

[raidredemption]

it works but charged attack has in general low crit chance, so definitely not good to put crit mods if u most rely on charged attack.

 

No, it doesn't work. Crits on charged attacks are always 2x the damage regardless of critical damage mods. Test it yourself if you don't believe me.

 

Invis also gives you 100% crit chance on melee weapons.

Edited April 15, 2013 by raidredemption

[Eric1738]

No, it doesn't work. Crits on charged attacks are always 2x the damage regardless of critical damage mods. Test it yourself if you don't believe me.

 

Invis also gives you 100% crit chance on melee weapons.

lol. i see the problem. u think in invis u r granted with crit. that's not correct. it doesnt give u 100% chance crit. it's more or less +bonus damage. dont use invis to test crit related stuff, cos it's not a crit FFS.

[WhiteCopain]

Get mods to increase stats. Even Tank frames like Frost die without shields/Health to cover them. Rhino sort of gets away with it if he has a ton of power for steel skin, that's about it.

 

Stealth is godly, Decoy is godly, Switch is godly. You can stealth move around or keep yourself safe, you can decoy to make defense missions a breeze, or Decoy in some far away place and swap with it. It's also a frustrating frame to play with because people who play it love to swap their allies into some far away place from the exit in big rooms.

 

As a Frost player I love the frame, but I really only ever use my 4 hotkey. I used 3 when I had low stats, now that I'm fully decked out, I literally only have my 4 hotkey equipted (And it's just a generic AOE ult)

 

 

Loki is a great frame, it's just people see "Advanced" and suddenly think they should pick it. I made a topic about it because I knew we'd see topics like this.. but..

[Blatantfool]

If you honestly think Loki is bad you might want to find another game. His utility is fantastic and despite the crap flavor text advertising him as 'Advanced' he is probably one of the coolest frames for new guys. 

 

 Decoy and Invis alone are fantastic for a new player.

[Mak_Gohae]

I didnt read it.... is this another post about how Radial Disarm suck and the only good ability is Invis cause of the extra damage?

[LanCeAlot]

This insulting Loki`s fan?
I`m Rhino fan though...will use Loki in future for Mastery rank XP.
use ulti then go melee with 100% critical(invisible) isnt that GOOD?
We its wrote that Loki is for advance player. :]
maybe you need to increased LEVEL of your MOD skill to increased time of decoy and etc.

No hard feeling,and I`m wiki reader.

[xenapan]

Loki is best starter frame hands down. Excal has no utility, only damage. Mag has only 1 aoe to speak of (and its worse than excal's slash dash). Sure a decoy for 1-2 seconds isnt alot at high levels but 1-2 seconds that they arent shooting at you is a good thing considering how fast they now chew through your shields. Plus you totally ignored how incredibly OP invis is vs bosses with the whole auto crit thing working with charged attacks.

[BigBadHunkyDaddy]

Didn't read everything here, but here are my 2 cents: I have Mag (starting warframe), Excal Prime, Ash and Loki, all rank 30, supercharged and I must say, Loki is the best out of them. Hands down.

 

His decoy is absolutely fantastic with AOE damage dealer on the team, can save your &#! and it combines greatly with switch teleport. I don't have to say anything about Invisibility (+continuity) and switch teleport can get you out of trouble, can save your teammate and can be used to jump quickly across the map. And radial disarm is not useless. It has pretty huge radius and again, like decoy (or WITH decoy) works great when you have AOE damage dealer on the team. Perhaps it is a situational skill and the least used one, but when used right, it's great. (radial disarm+decoy vs. grineer/corpus=fun)

The best thing is, that all his skills wonderfully compliment each other, great synergy. 

 

And as mentioned before, Loki can solo better than any other class. And let's not forget that he's the best when you want to mess around with your teammates a bit :> (he IS the god of mischief after all! :D )

Edited April 15, 2013 by Balerion84

[--Sensei--]

Like someone in this thread said

 

Invisibility gives 100% crit chance, however crit DMG mods currently do not work while stealthed by invisibility due to a client glitch and the DE staff team is working to rectify said glitch. So atm using melee crit dmg mods only work outside of stealth also you could just use crit chance mods to up past 100% crit chance from invisibility to gain red crits for more dmg.

 

Also you have to remember Loki is a starter frame, you're asking them to buff a starting class lul.

Edited April 15, 2013 by --Sensei--