Who Misses Charge Attacks? Returning Confirmed-Edition + Poll

[BoomToon43]

Genius = over 9000

IT'S OVER 9000!

[BoomToon43]

I do, deeply and sorely. My Loki and ash were all built around them, and they were my favorite frames... :(

yea them invisibility crit boost on the heavy weapons was great

[LtZefar]

It was satisfying to charge up Galatine and wipe out a group around you. For once the a melee weapon was FUN to use in the game. Charge wasn't the problem, the crappy melee weapons was. They did too low damage for the risk involved. Quite unbalanced too.

 

Like why does Galatine do so much Charge damage but normal damage is just leaving scratches on the enemies? It made no sense. So this was DE fault for not making melee weapons good enough.

 

 

So all they need to do is add in Charge feature into all or most Aura mods and it'll be fine. Heavy weapons as in truly heavy weapons are not in any kind of way useful now. Two small daggers do better than a giant hammer in both DPS and raw damage. How is that fair?

Oh except for the two handed staff Amphis http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Amphis 1.3 Attack speed? It's nuts! Here we have a big two handed weapon that is faster than two small daggers.

I think that is the fastest melee weapon in the game.

 

So the balance is all over the place.

[Egg_Chen]

Kogake charge attack is sorely missed.

Make it an option during unequipped melee, simple.

[unknow99]

Yup,I miss them, mainly for that reason :

 

 

 

 

It was sooo much fun : you could launch people in the air,ragdoll or cut them in half easier, you actually felt the impact's violence!(dat Kogake flying kick & dat strong Furax punch...) That was really satisfying. But the devs saw spammers slashing the Infested with their galatine like they were slashing butter, and I understand a little why.

 

However, you can add it back without creating galatine-spammers again D.E., trust me ! You just have to add a little cost, like stamina for instance. Something that avoids players to use it ten times in a row. Then you add it to the stance (if you maxed your stance mod maybe)

 

 

Charge attacks cant be too hard to impliment back into the systems as they are. Just add a new "combo" which is only the hold key - variant.

 

Problem solved.

 

 

On a side note, veterans who dislike the new combos do hate it for a reason : the timing can feel unnatural during battles. It will be directly intuitive if you do this like in fighting games : several buttons for combos. Not asking for quart circle forward-down-back to perform a Shinku Hadouken but just having light/medium/strong attack or normal/strong buttons. That's just 2 additionnal button max. and Bam! You'll even see Warframe combo videos in youtube the first day you implement it.

 

Adding a grab attack would also be an amazing thing but prhaps I'm dreaming too much for this one)

 

In conclusion : it is possible to have it back and go well with combos and channeling, without having spammers back. And that's it! Everyone will be happy again. :)

 

Edited August 26, 2014 by unknow99

[BoomToon43]

Yup,I miss them, mainly for that reason :

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kh1-NbXIOY'>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kh1-NbXIOY

 

 

 

It was sooo much fun : you could launch people in the air,ragdoll or cut them in half easier, you actually felt the impact's violence!(dat Kogake flying kick & dat strong Furax punch...) That was really satisfying. But the devs saw spammers slashing the Infested with their galatine like they were slashing butter, and I understand a little why.

 

However, you can add it back without creating galatine-spammers again D.E., trust me ! You just have to add a little cost, like stamina for instance. Something that avoids players to use it ten times in a row. Then you add it to the stance (if you maxed your stance mod maybe)

 

 

 

 

On a side note, veterans who dislike the new combos do hate it for a reason : the timing can feel unnatural during battles. It will be directly intuitive if you do this like in fighting games : several buttons for combos. Not asking for quart circle forward-down-back to perform a Shinku Hadouken but just having light/medium/strong attack or normal/strong buttons. That's just 2 additionnal button max. and Bam! You'll even see Warframe combo videos in youtube the first day you implement it.

 

Adding a grab attack would also be an amazing thing but prhaps I'm dreaming too much for this one)

 

In conclusion : it is possible to have it back and go well with combos and channeling, without having spammers back. And that's it! Everyone will be happy again. :)

 

+1 OP

[Azamagon]

Yes, i really miss the chargeattacks. It had cool animations and promoted timing, rather than the current spamming. The thing i did NOT like about charge-attacks though was that they were different from regular attacks when modding...

Charge attacks cant be too hard to impliment back into the systems as they are. Just add a new "combo" which is only the hold key - variant.

 

Problem solved.

^ Sounds great! Especially if that's a "combo" we can access even when in gun mode (just like Glaives).

 

Really, I don't see how they can't be brought back. Make them less overpowered than before (maybe just 2x or 3x the damage of a regular attack, depending on the attack's speed), make them scale in damage from the regular damage-mods (Pressure Point and Spoiled Strike) and make chargespeed reduced by attackspeed (Fury, Berserker procs, Quickening). It's kinda simple, really. And it's a win-win too, as those who like them can use them, those who didn't can ignore them just fine. If you also scale them as suggested here, then it bring even MORE variety in your attacks too! :)

[Egg_Chen]

@unkow99 - Yup, both the video and the gif show what we have lost.

Bring back charge attacks (and ragdolls), they were fun.

 

Disclaimer : As well as melee 2.0, not instead of.

[BoomToon43]

@unkow99 - Yup, both the video and the gif show what we have lost.

Bring back charge attacks (and ragdolls), they were fun.

 

Disclaimer : As well as melee 2.0, not instead of.

I wish everyone else would relise what you said in that disclaimer about how it'd be with melee 2.0 , not replace it.

[BoomToon43]

Yes, i really miss the chargeattacks. It had cool animations and promoted timing, rather than the current spamming. The thing i did NOT like about charge-attacks though was that they were different from regular attacks when modding...

^ Sounds great! Especially if that's a "combo" we can access even when in gun mode (just like Glaives).

Really, I don't see how they can't be brought back. Make them less overpowered than before (maybe just 2x or 3x the damage of a regular attack, depending on the attack's speed), make them scale in damage from the regular damage-mods (Pressure Point and Spoiled Strike) and make chargespeed reduced by attackspeed (Fury, Berserker procs, Quickening). It's kinda simple, really. And it's a win-win too, as those who like them can use them, those who didn't can ignore them just fine. If you also scale them as suggested here, then it bring even MORE variety in your attacks too! :)

you see, there is a small problem with them just being a combo, channeling, my d nikana does about 4k to grineer so right off the bat 8k charge dmg to grineer(enlesss it's x3 them 12k) then with channeling will double that again to 16k(24k) then w/ killing blow and corupt charge,8.8 multiplier 140k(211k)and then crits have a 1.5 multiplier and then make it 211k(316.8) =/ Edited August 26, 2014 by BoomToon43

[BoomToon43]

So maybe a 1.5x multiplier for high dmg weapons like the d nikana and jat kittag. ( no dakra prime due only the normal 3 melee attacks with dmg boosts.) I think anything about 60 or 70w/ or w/out crit or so sould have the 1.5x multiplier, the weapons like the dual ichor will have 70 base charge dmg w/ crit, and due to it being one of the fastest melee weapons it would have super fast charge speed.

Edited August 27, 2014 by BoomToon43

[BoomToon43]

ATTENTION: if you have an idea on a new way charge attacks can be put back into the game again, please post them in the thread here

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/298136-should-charge-attacks-return/

 

if you wanna talk about how you miss them please continue to post here.

[7grims]

Two reasons for them to return:

 

1- I never use channeling attacks, aint spending my energy on melee, when I can do amazing powers.

2- heavy melee weapons are now 100% useless and not worth since melee 2.0

[Dasmir]

2- heavy melee weapons are now 100% useless and not worth since melee 2.0

 

Nope

[BoomToon43]

Nope

well there not actually COMPLETELY useless but the dual ichor and the dakra prime will have alot more dps( and I have more fun with them than heavy weapons.)

[boomtoon43phyco]

Wth happened to the link?

[Dalawantahr]

Aw man would love to do that, didn't have the Bo yet before charge was taken away. Such an awesome demonstration of power.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Dalawantahr

[unknow99]

Aw man would love to do that, didn't have the Bo yet before charge was taken away. Such an awesome demonstration of power.

I once had fun trying to make a lancer hit the extraction point from afar (record is ~30 m)!

 

Why did they scraped people homerunning?! ;-;

[BoomToon43]

I once had fun trying to make a lancer hit the extraction point from afar (record is ~30 m)!

 

Why did they scraped people homerunning?! ;-;

ROFL

[Dessfar]

The answer is: My Galatine

Holy S#&$. Build?

[Desgax]

The new combos are much better but for the heavy melee weapons it would be nice to have a powerful charge attack to the combo list (or at least a buff).

[Regar]

Holy S#&$. Build?

well. it was a charge focused build. there were all the +attack dmg and + charge damage mods, but now charge does not exist anymore, so whatever u.ù

[Wurdyburd]

I think there are two primary problems that people have with melee in general, scattered throughout this thread.

 

1) Melee doesn't FEEL right

Back in the day, Warframe melee had fantastic gore, and downright hilarious ragdolling. But that felt good. It made it feel like our weapons had mass, that they actually did something. One poster commented that the galatine's normal damage was so inconsequential to it's charge damage, but that actually made sense. Have you ever tried to swing a giant metal girder? Pretty hard to do fast enough to deal damage to anything. Compared to charging up a powerful swing, and smashing the girder into someone/thing. It's less of a blade and more of an impact, and impact that happens to bludgeon people so hard that they fall in half.

Compared this to now: although many of the stances recycle animations from Melee 1.0, none of them hold the same mass and weight as they used to. Putting a Fury mod on Galatine with Cleaving Whirlwind, and doing Sundered Tusk? It's laughable. It completely disregards any of the weight that the heavy axe weapons are supposed to have. You might as well be beating somebody with a pointed stick.

Charge attacks were largely only useful on the heavy weapons, true. But that made sense. Of course it'd be more reasonable to do faster attacks with a dagger or a sword, because they don't have the mass to make heavy charges useful.

 

2) Melee 2.0 removed an option and offered a fallacy in it's place

DE's primary mistake was that they didn't inform us of the coming changes, or ask the community if such a radical change would even be appreciated. They got so caught up in their iterations and ideas that they never stopped to think what the community might find fun, and never asked.

As some have stated, charge attacks offered a choice. Do I do a fast light attack, or do I do a heavy attack, timing it correctly to avoid being interrupted, and to hit as many units as possible? This created an inequivalency in the game. You couldn't truly compare a heavy weapon to a light weapon, because it depended on how you used it. Now, introduce Melee 2.0: with the removal of charge damage, DE has 'streamlined' damage all into the same calculation. "How much damage do I do per hit, and how fast can I hit?" A common DPS equation. But based on that logic, would not Melee 1.0 Galatine be considered less valuable? After all, you do more damage per hit, but damage per second was owned by the faster Dakra Prime.

Though DE claims that they add as much options and player choice as they can, all they did was remove a gameplay style choice, and replace it with the stance option, which isn't an option at all. You simply mash E, slowing down your mashing depending on what you want to do. Even then, you can't quickly dispatch ranged enemies like the Grineer or the Corpus; you have to hit them a few times with your giant steel girder sword in order to actually kill them. In many cases, you have to actually enter a combo just to kill a single guy. Why should I need to reenact a Cirque du Soleil audition just to kill a single man with a hammer that likely weighs more than he does? DE can justify their choice by claiming it disrupted game flow, but I don't care how spinny you make your animations, flow is not defined by how much is moving onscreen at any given time.

Also, though their options were limited, there were weapons whose uniqueness stemmed from charge attacks. The Jat Kittag, as mentioned, had a wonderfully fun and unique charge attack. Infested weapons like the Mire and the Scoliac had the feature that when you do a charge attack or jump attack, you deal poison damage, which didn't exist back when they were introduced. The Dual Ichor could charge an attack and hold it indefinitely, allowing you to be more precise with your attacks [this tended not to matter though, since the D.I.s had low-to-mediocre charge damage]. This at least made the weapons interesting and unique.

 

To conclude: DE could introduce an entire array of heavy weapons next week, and nobody would care. They'd be mastery fodder, since they effectively removed a mechanic from their game that made heavy weapons viable in the first place. Until something is done about Melee 2.0, melee boils down to DamgePerHit x Speed, and that's just boring.

[RoboDoge]

Thing is, i expected something like this from Melee 2.0.

 

 

[emptiness]

i do not miss charge attacks

i prefer the new toggle and forget method