Masterofm Posted August 31, 2014 Author Share Posted August 31, 2014 Some men just want to watch the world burn. *Galaxy (?) Personally I thought of the ember when you X'ed out the world part. It made me smile. Because really.... the ember just wants to watch the burn. Maybe. Though it's possible tenno have no political ideology of their own. Note that we only fight towards a distinct goal when tasked to do so by the lotus. Otherwise we seem to be more than happy to just fight for whoever pays better, or even among ourselves. They have to have "some" ideology. I mean technically everyone is working for Lotus. There are some tasks, and while we do do side jobs they generally are not given by the lotus herself. Hacked or secrete transmissions. Does that have us break out of our contained structured reality set about by the Lotus? Once the cat is out of the bag do we get to know more? Mainly what I wonder as a spin is really everyone bad? Are all our choices just spiraling towards chaos? I like the idea of things being more then just black and white, but I also like the complexity of gray. imo, strictly speaking, not. Though the things being done may seem similar, the motives are not the same. We don't aim to "terrorize" Corpus or Grineer civilians. Think some of the more appropriate terms may be: pirates, robbers, spies, serial murderers, parasites :) Potentially, but remember when dealing with majority minority. Most Grineer are forced to serve in the army and it wouldn't be hard to indoctrinate people to the way of thinking with "cyber enhancements" and of course heck... Grineer have propaganda machines. Literally floating machines spreading propaganda. I mean it doesn't matter if they think they are doing the right thing by attacking the military complex. The US itself has talked about "terrorist" acts against trying to bomb a military ship before. I'm just saying there are many words to use, but since we are the minority and we also do a lot of killing... The Lotus kind of guides us (but in terms of saying something along the lines of 'kill every enemy') in Invasions, and for Dark Sector PVP, fully controllable Spectres for us (meaning we are fighting indirectly with each other). Which oddly enough ties in with my thoughts on "she wants it all to be destroyed." You're thinking waaaay too much into it. The Grineer dominate the solar system. The Corpus are just happy merchants. They occasionally clash every once in a while. The Infested just wanna eat stuff. The Teeno have been trying to liberate the peoples of the solar system from Grineer tyranny, combat sneaky Corpus deals, and wrangle the Infestation. The issue is that we never actually see any civilians same some dudes from the Red Veil and maybe Darvo. This gives off the impression that only the Grineer and Corpus populate the system. This makes fighting either side feel...strange. To be completely honest, you'll just have to wait for lore. Maybe in update 37.3 we'll get a coherent story line. O.K. I know I probably am, but I like the idea of it. I like the idea that it's not as black and white as we see it right now. That what we have seen is just a sculpted version of a reality that doesn't actually fit with who the Tenno actually are. The moral choices we face where while we fight among ourselves for outlying control of a sector and the fact that it's not just a reality we truly understand. For instance a lot of the infected dialogue against the player is wondering why the Tenno are fighting them. They want to be joined with us. While it is perverted and messed up to them maybe it's more of the melding of the borg, but while still creating a sense of individuality and harmony. While these creatures infest and change worlds in the minds of the infected they are now spreading harmony throughout the galaxy. Plus you know if there were civilians in the mix most people would probably blast them without giving it a second thought.... I know I probably would whip on them and blast them before realizing they were unarmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etsoree Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 What if Lotus is actually trying to tip the balance of power in the galaxy so that all life can be exterminated. Stopped reading right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masterofm Posted August 31, 2014 Author Share Posted August 31, 2014 Stopped reading right there. I have no idea what you are talking about.... pay no heed to the edit.... Are you having 2nd thoughts about serving Lotus? Because you know, if you are, we need to throw you in the Kubrow Pit. I think the smarter thing to do would be to put someone in the stasis chamber and flush them out into space. This is quite literally the best topic/post/posts I have ever seen in the WF forums...... I have to say I've loved all of the posts so far, and what people have had to say on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Mainly what I wonder as a spin is really everyone bad? Are all our choices just spiraling towards chaos? I like the idea of things being more then just black and white, but I also like the complexity of gray. All of the factions are a bit of a grey area. The Grineer are brutal and militaristic and insane, but their decline is almost tragic. The Corpus have no morals whatsoever, but they'll follow through on a deal so long as you pay them. The Tenno are supposedly heroes, but they're also amnesiac child soldiers with a near-psychopathic devotion to their Lotus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElHefe Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 By in large, Tenno do as they are told ... This reduces the individual with self-directed purpose into an instrument Use whatever label that floats your boat ... A rose by any other name and all that jazz But until a/the big picture emerges the Tenno are deaf, dumb and blind ... Merely scratching out an existence because of some intrinsically selfish survival instinct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnimorph Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Yeah, I must admit I wouldn't be surprised if there's more to Lotus than we're seeing, that gets unveiled later, and all might not be rosy. Re. the "terrorist" thing, my understanding is that the Grineer and Corpus we are fighting are "soldiers" for their respective factions in one way or another. We don't seem to go for things like targetting innocent civilians to sow terror, which is what terrorists tend to do (that being why they're called terrorists). In fact, don't we go out of our way in one of the earliest missions, to rescue some colonists? So yeah: not terrorists. But we may be being misled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashnal Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Right so I know this seems like an odd thing to say, but seriously it does make me wonder. You raid ships, destroy ships, and mainly terrorize both the corpus and grineer, plant information, and of course rob them blind of any precious material they have. You also go on a mission to take out a "corrupt" member of the diplomatic council (boss fight) and end up starting a war between the corpus and grineer to profit from both sides struggle. I mean you only hear about the story from the Lotus. What if she is lying to us? What if actually Vey Hek was trying to unify the corpus and grineer? I mean most of what he was saying is basically translated by Lotus right? They used to speak gibberish so I wonder if our minds are being skewed towards a different train of thought. Which led me to thinking. What if Lotus is actually trying to tip the balance of power in the solar system so that all life can be exterminated. Pull everything into the void so to speak. Maybe this is what happened to the ancient civilization. A sentient AI exterminated all sentient life and then went to hibernation. Maybe that's why the warframes have been hiding for so long. But with their memories wiped they don't realize they are working for the inevitable destruction of their race. What if Stalker is actually trying to restore balance? What if he is the last Tenno to remember what we are actually fighting about? I mean he does warn us that what we are doing and that our actions will have consequences..... What if taking out these key figures is disrupting the natural flow and order of the universe? What if what we as Tenno are doing is really turning the gears of our own destruction? Maybe we are just indoctrinated terrorists pulling off some insane AI's plan. Something to think about at least. We're totally Terrorists from the perspective of the grineer and corpus. I mean think about it, we drop in in 1-4 man cells to sabotage and steal S#&$ from them all the time. Sounds like Terrorism to me :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallerian Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Well we never show our faces and blow up a ton of stuff. It's possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)starlyes Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Perspective. A freedom fighter believes the "oppressors" are in the wrong and vise versa. Lovely ain't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoboticBanana1 Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 -snip- just generally f*ck S#&$ up and be annoying. -snip- So yeah. Terrorists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTechieAngler Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 the tenno are sayians, space pirates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt_Atroxium Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 We are the guardians of the galaxy, we are here to maintain balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RejectionOfFate Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 We are not Terrorists. We are Tennoists. We get paid by the Lotus to cause either massive loss of life or mass hysteria among the enemy factions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithf Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 So what political aim are we pursuing? Loot Oriented Tenno Utilization System. It says a lot ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talinoth Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Institute-Marksman Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 We are(or were) a superweapon. The super soldier, but 'en masse'. The Orokin used us to combat their foes, these 'Sentients'. Now, they are gone, and the only person left to boss us around is the Lotus. Without her, Tenno would be free to do as they please. And supersoldierninjas dont really do well without being told what to do. I mean, surely, Tenno probably have a mind of their own, but all we really are, is tools. A way of control. Protecting the people, from the people.But that is not all.We are outcasts. Scavenging what is left of what we once were. The Origin System isnt as we remembered, and it will never be the same again. So we hide. Run for our lives, from those who consider us beasts. Who hunt us down when they see the slightest trace of us. Who hunt us like the animals we are. They have every right to. Their comrades blood is on our hands. But even we have a definition of animalistic. An ancient weapon, always on the move, devouring anything in its way. We are its flesh. But only its flesh. And that is what we fight for. Ideals of a person whos very existence is doubtful to us. Who we have never seen in person, yet we follow as if we have everything to lose. But we have so very little to lose. Sticks and stones, is what we hold dear. Not morals, values or ideals. We have no place to live but far away from society, like the outcasts we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)STARSIDE_DESTINY Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I believe that the closest we can get to guessing what the Tenno believe in is by understanding what Hayden Tenno believed in. I've never played DarkSector so I don't know the nuances of the story and characters, but I've read summaries of the plot and it seemed like his major concern was killing off the Technocyte (which are the Infested that we fight). He became independent of the CIA towards the end of the story, which would support the apparent neutrality of the modern Tenno and their tendency to decide (and enforce) what is right for the solar system. One lore point that I find interesting is the Stalker's Codex entry. It clearly states that the Tenno rebelled against the Orokin after defeating the Sentients, ending the Orokin empire and probably leading to the cryosleep of the Tenno. If we knew when the Orokin empire started (to put in context with the life of Hayden Tenno) then we could make much better guesses as to the ideology of the Tenno and what happened to Hayden after DarkSector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatpig84 Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 We fight we drink we steal ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alice-Proxy Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 *gently whispers* Hail Hydra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 No, just cold-blooded mercenaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acanthaceae Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I thought we were fighting to save "normal" people (uninfected, I guess?), aka those "colonists" in the tutorial quest. I'd like to see some of these normal people just to make sure there still are some left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masterofm Posted August 31, 2014 Author Share Posted August 31, 2014 Perspective. A freedom fighter believes the "oppressors" are in the wrong and vise versa. Lovely ain't it? Well it is a matter of perspective. One mans terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. We are the guardians of the galaxy, we are here to maintain balance. Ah. But how do you know that? Who specifically is telling you that? the tenno are sayians, space pirates Pirates tend to raid, loot, and steal. They do not tend to spread disinformation, rescue operatives, sabotage stuff, and in general fight a campaign filled with fear tactics. We are outcasts. Scavenging what is left of what we once were. The Origin System isnt as we remembered, and it will never be the same again. So we hide. Run for our lives, from those who consider us beasts. Who hunt us down when they see the slightest trace of us. Who hunt us like the animals we are. They have every right to. Their comrades blood is on our hands. But even we have a definition of animalistic. An ancient weapon, always on the move, devouring anything in its way. We are its flesh. But only its flesh. And that is what we fight for. Ideals of a person whos very existence is doubtful to us. Who we have never seen in person, yet we follow as if we have everything to lose. But we have so very little to lose. Sticks and stones, is what we hold dear. Not morals, values or ideals. We have no place to live but far away from society, like the outcasts we are. Basically. Although we can't remember anything I thought so the origin system can't be as we remembered if we can't remember it. Right? One lore point that I find interesting is the Stalker's Codex entry. It clearly states that the Tenno rebelled against the Orokin after defeating the Sentients, ending the Orokin empire and probably leading to the cryosleep of the Tenno. If we knew when the Orokin empire started (to put in context with the life of Hayden Tenno) then we could make much better guesses as to the ideology of the Tenno and what happened to Hayden after DarkSector. And what if the Lotus is an AI construct created by the Orokin empire? A wolf in sheep's clothing so to speak. I'm just saying much of what we see is very one sided. In fact, don't we go out of our way in one of the earliest missions, to rescue some colonists? So yeah: not terrorists. But we may be being misled. Potentially. But remember we are only told from one source. Lotus tells us we are rescuing colonists, we are saving all these people. But we never see them. We never see the real outcome of our actions. We never really know what we are doing or if it is having a positive outcome. Do we kill civilians and never know? We certainly blow a lot of crap up. How do we know there are not civilians on a corpus or grineer ship that we destroy? Because Lotus tells us so? They are all enemy combatants? Hum..... doesn't that sound really interesting? Granted Terrorism has been a word that has been twisted and reshaped in ways that don't quite stick to the words original intended meaning, Even the wiki on terrorism says there are at least 100 different definitions used on the word. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism I'm sure for what the Tenno do both the corpus and the grineer would label us as terrorists. We are really the minority in this system where as the majority are labeling us as terrorists, and in our acts we do spread terror throughout the system for the ruling powers. What really makes me smile though is the Lotus generally has us kill targets to destabilize, create power vacuums, and cause havoc for the safety of the general populace. <--- When has this ever not created more violence towards teh everyone. Especially considering the Tenno do not step in to try to fill the power gaps we leave. Food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjpdn Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 It seems that the point of this is to keep a balance between the Corpus poweres and the Grineer powers. In many evensts, the Lotus told us 'blablabla Grineer too powerful blablabla Grineer needs nerf' or 'blablabla Corpus new prototype blablabla prototype too good blablabla destroy it blabla' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scr4mp Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 We are all terrorists in every second of our lives. Also, can you tell the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElHefe Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 (edited) Well it is a matter of perspective. One mans terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Ah. But how do you know that? Who specifically is telling you that? Pirates tend to raid, loot, and steal. They do not tend to spread disinformation, rescue operatives, sabotage stuff, and in general fight a campaign filled with fear tactics. Basically. Although we can't remember anything I thought so the origin system can't be as we remembered if we can't remember it. Right? And what if the Lotus is an AI construct created by the Orokin empire? A wolf in sheep's clothing so to speak. I'm just saying much of what we see is very one sided. Potentially. But remember we are only told from one source. Lotus tells us we are rescuing colonists, we are saving all these people. But we never see them. We never see the real outcome of our actions. We never really know what we are doing or if it is having a positive outcome. Do we kill civilians and never know? We certainly blow a lot of crap up. How do we know there are not civilians on a corpus or grineer ship that we destroy? Because Lotus tells us so? They are all enemy combatants? Hum..... doesn't that sound really interesting? Granted Terrorism has been a word that has been twisted and reshaped in ways that don't quite stick to the words original intended meaning, Even the wiki on terrorism says there are at least 100 different definitions used on the word. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism I'm sure for what the Tenno do both the corpus and the grineer would label us as terrorists. We are really the minority in this system where as the majority are labeling us as terrorists, and in our acts we do spread terror throughout the system for the ruling powers. What really makes me smile though is the Lotus generally has us kill targets to destabilize, create power vacuums, and cause havoc for the safety of the general populace. <--- When has this ever not created more violence towards teh everyone. Especially considering the Tenno do not step in to try to fill the power gaps we leave. Food for thought. Superb post ... 1+ Evenhanded and critically thorough - a shinning example of solid analysis whose purpose is to engage additional discussion rather than win argument The forum needs more of this Edited August 31, 2014 by ElHefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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