Frost Discussion

[APBladeX]

Greetings, Tenno. I've started thinking about Frost's general viability when compared to the other warframes, which resurfaced when Oberon got his buff. Before Frost's Snowglobe nerf, he was considered the best warframe for defense missions. It was eventually toned back up from the nerf, but I still feel his abilities are a bit lackluster. I want to openly discuss his state of balance compared to other warframes, and then develop a poll of what could be improved for a future rework. Please remain respectful and constructive.

EDIT 1: 

I've created a couple of polls to gather feedback/opinions. Here they are:

Freeze:

http://strawpoll.me/2474679/r

Ice Wave:

http://strawpoll.me/2474680/r

Avalanche:

http://strawpoll.me/2474681/r

General Stats:

http://strawpoll.me/2474682/r

Utility=defensive passive/buff/debuff enemies/offensive passive

Damage=more damage

Stun=stun function

Health=more health

Stamina=more stamina

Energy=more energy

Shields=more shields

Armor=more armor

Speed=more speed

Tracking=heat-seeking

Note: I've thought about Snowglobe again, and realized its in a fairly balanced state.

Edited September 1, 2014 by APBladeX

[Yazeth]

Yeah, his Snow Globe does need a bit of a buff, imo. And, I hope that the slow debuff provided by Snowglobe would actually be affected by Range mods.

[egypt]

still is king of the defense. no doubt about it. it was a blast every time having frost in the group for the new event. and i've played crowd controll frames all the time but nothing gives you such security like the good ol frosty;)

[APBladeX]

still is king of the defense. no doubt about it. it was a blast every time having frost in the group for the new event. and i've played crowd controll frames all the time but nothing gives you such security like the good ol frosty;)

Easily outdone by Nyx and Vauban.

[APBladeX]

I've created a couple of polls to gather feedback/opinions. Here they are:

Freeze:

http://strawpoll.me/2474679/r

Ice Wave:

http://strawpoll.me/2474680/r

Avalanche:

http://strawpoll.me/2474681/r

General Stats:

http://strawpoll.me/2474682/r

Utility=defensive passive/buff/debuff enemies/offensive passive

Damage=more damage

Stun=stun function

Health=more health

Stamina=more stamina

Energy=more energy

Shields=more shields

Armor=more armor

Speed=more speed

Tracking=heat-seeking

Note: I've thought about Snowglobe again, and realized its in a fairly balanced state.

Edited September 1, 2014 by APBladeX

[agung.up]

still is king of the defense. no doubt about it. it was a blast every time having frost in the group for the new event. and i've played crowd controll frames all the time but nothing gives you such security like the good ol frosty;)

Agree with this. In current event frost really make people feel safer. He can not only use snow globe but also tanky enough to get shot without dying (when he's on the way to deploying the globe).

[MasterYip]

Frost is still the king at 360 defence.

[Mad-Rujia]

personaly i think he doesn't need a buff or nerf.

[Mad-Rujia]

where is the straw poll button to say it's fine as it is?

[MasterYip]

personaly i think he doesn't need a buff or nerf.

 

hes fine how he is, you just need to build the globe for spammability and not duration anymore.

[egypt]

Easily outdone by Nyx and Vauban.

they certainly help but "Easily outdone" it just doesn't give him justice. especially if you doing a long run which is much harder without a frost and also just about any defence (except infested of course). i don't say frost is necessity in defence but it is really really good to have one in the team.

[(PSN)deathfrombelow5]

Frost doesn't need that much to fix him.

I'd say his first ability needs to freeze enemies in an aoe. That would make it useful.

Snowglobe needs to have its duration timer removed, or its invincibility given back. The first one is more reasonable, so I'd say that would be a good choice. With an infinite duration, you could have a power focused build, giving you two very good abilities, snow globe and avalanche, working at optimal levels. 

 

I don't think ice wave will ever be very good, so just leave it where it is.

An armor increase would also be nice, but it is not a big deal. 

Edited September 1, 2014 by (PS4)deathfrombelow5

[MasterYip]

Frost doesn't need that much to fix him.

I'd say his first ability needs to freeze enemies in an aoe. That would make it useful.

Snowglobe needs to have its duration timer removed, or its invincibility given back. The first one is more reasonable, so I'd say that would be nice. With an infinite duration, you could have a power focused build, giving you two very good abilities, snow globe and avalanche, working at optimal levels. 

 

I don't think ice wave will ever be very good, so just leave it where it is.

An armor increase would also be nice, but it is not a big deal. 

 

Freeze should be like this.

 

The target is frozen for a duration,( which is affected by duration mods )and only breaks when the duration runs out, meaning you and your teammates can fire clips into the boss/enemy until dead.

[Alphafox]

they certainly help but "Easily outdone" it just doesn't give him justice. especially if you doing a long run which is much harder without a frost and also just about any defence (except infested of course). i don't say frost is necessity in defence but it is really really good to have one in the team.

Easily outdone is the appropriate term.

[billthebetta]

I understand the nerf to Snowglobe, but let's remember why Globe was buffed(one of the reasons). Frost had largely become a one-trick pony. All players would do as Frost is use Globe, and DEs reaction to this was make said ability less useful.

Now, his other abilites were slightly buffed(damage), but the ability and it's use for his skillset remained the same. You used these abilites do damage the opponents.

 

Honestly, when he was rebuffed after the initial nerf, I was hoping for more CC to be incorporated into the King of Cold's abilites. Ice is traditionally a low-damage, high controlling element, but in this game his abilites are more for damage versus utility.

Freeze would be useful if damaging the unit didn't break the effect. But it does. Using this ability has the same risk to casting Nyx's MC: Use 25 energy to risk wasting that cast, due to other players smiting the target.

 

Ice Wave as a damaging ability is decent, I will say that. Same goes for Avalanche. However, most units resist cold(so damage, while decent, is subpar for abilities(currently) used for damage. Other than the fact that they deal damage, Avalanche is little different compared to other AoE nukes. A circle area around the caster is affected, damage is dealt, and perhaps a remaining effect takes place.(Oberon's blind, Rhino's Stasis, Mag's drops targets to the floor, leaving them to get up). Avalanche had some CC for a bit, and it was a bug. Quickly remedied, Avalanche was returned to being without CC for the caster to make use upon.

 

All that ^ leads to my current beef and wishes for my favorite frame. Frost is advertised as a defensive caster, and his Globe qualifies for that. However, his other abilities do little to be called defensive. Sure, Freeze does what it's named for, but is easily broken and is rarely used. Ice Wave slows down enemies, but Nova can do this to a much greater degree. Avalanche... It does trap enemies while Frost is casting, but as soon as he finishes the cast animation, they unfreeze with him.

 

Sorry. That's a lot of useless points and rambling, but Frost's buff is why I came to use the forums in the first place. It's a big deal to me.

 

Proposed tweaks:

Freeze: Have a minimum duration on target, or remove the dispell feature once 300 health damage is dealt. If not acceptable, add a minimum timer or make the damage cap based on percentage of health. Please make this easier to connect with.

Ice Wave: Perhaps add a floor after-cast effect that affects all those that walk into the area. Cast>damage and initial targets slowed>enemies walk into field and get slowed too.

Globe: 4 second invulnerability time is exploited, but takes a VERY select build, and essentially is only 3 spam. Honestly, I'm was happy when this was suggested, and still am.

Avalanche: Remember the bugged version? I'm going to vote for that back. That was great. Kinda samey to Stomp, so maybe add an effect when you manage to break a ice statue? Perhaps they cause damage to the other statues, or proc cold on nearby foes?

[Mad-Rujia]

Frost doesn't need that much to fix him.

I'd say his first ability needs to freeze enemies in an aoe. That would make it useful.

Snowglobe needs to have its duration timer removed, or its invincibility given back. The first one is more reasonable, so I'd say that would be a good choice. With an infinite duration, you could have a power focused build, giving you two very good abilities, snow globe and avalanche, working at optimal levels. 

 

I don't think ice wave will ever be very good, so just leave it where it is.

An armor increase would also be nice, but it is not a big deal. 

isnt that what avalanche is for, also invinsibility should never be brought back due to dark sector conflict having rediculously OP powers as it is.

[Alphafox]

isnt that what avalanche is for, also invinsibility should never be brought back due to dark sector conflict having rediculously OP powers as it is.

1. Avalanche freeze them for ~2 secs

2.Dark sectors are balanced differently from the rest of the game.

[(PSN)deathfrombelow5]

isnt that what avalanche is for, also invinsibility should never be brought back due to dark sector conflict having rediculously OP powers as it is.

avalanche doesn't freeze enemies for more than a second before hitting them. At higher levels, avalanche is only good for a 1-2 second freeze and slight damage. So no, that is not what avalanche is for. 

[billthebetta]

I've created a couple of polls to gather feedback/opinions. Here they are:

How do you vote?

[Cat_Jam]

How do you vote?

Here you go:

 

Freeze:

http://strawpoll.me/2474679/

Ice Wave:

http://strawpoll.me/2474680/

Avalanche:

http://strawpoll.me/2474681/

General Stats:

http://strawpoll.me/2474682/

 

OP linked us to the results.

[billthebetta]

 

Here you go:

 

Freeze:

http://strawpoll.me/2474679/

Ice Wave:

http://strawpoll.me/2474680/

Avalanche:

http://strawpoll.me/2474681/

General Stats:

http://strawpoll.me/2474682/

 

OP linked us to the results.

 

If everybody else didn't notice or realize, you can vote for multiple aspects on how you want everything to be improved.

[Sixty5]

Aoe on freeze and a cone shaped cast on it would help him alot.

One thing is that I wouldn't mind if each of his skills had a defensive and an offensive aspect, with the defensive being buffed by duration and the offensive being buffed by power strength.

It would give him some nicer duality.

Also giving snowglobe scaling would help a bit, and possibly the ability to heal/boosts its health by hitting it with cold damage from abilities and weapons.

Could be interesting.

[Krazzie]

In my opinion as it stands now.

 

Solo - From point A to Point B Frost is ok.  Also for all other frame in general.

Party - Frost would lose its credibility.  Assuming your party skill level is pretty high(pugs not included).  Doesn't matter what the fraction.  High level runs, there are better party compisition vs having one frost to take another frame usefulness.

Your average pugs will do about 5-20 waves defence and about 20 minutes of survival, at most.(doesn't matter which planet/void/dark sector)  At the low level of runs any frame would be useful.

 

Overall I do agree.  Frost does need somewhat a little buff.  Since he's a tank, more defence would be appropriate.  Also Avalanche skill if it does have 100% freeze stun for a certain duration would be nice, for crowd control.  And for Snow Globe, enemy weapon such as napalm and bombards rockets shoudn't penetrate through the shield.

[Tulzscha]

Please read and understand:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/204165-read-before-posting-threads-what-is-and-isnt-a-general-discussion/

 

Moved to the proper section.

[kennytheone]

Here's where I stand on this matter.

As I main Frost, I really wish there were some nice buffs to make him seem like a better Frame. He's not bad, he's just not as good as he used to be.

Let's start with stats.

Honestly, I think it's mainly a speed buff wanted but that won't happen. His stats are great imo.

Now honestly, moving onto what buffs people think there should be. And I agree, there should be a few buffs, but a few nerfs to make up for it. I'll put a nerf just for each ability so you can sort of get a feel of the kind of buffs we would want.

LAST PRIORITY!

Ability 1: Freeze.

This ability is under-used and has potential, but I don't really think that's what people want. I'd say just leave it for now.

Buff: Not broken by gunfire and run on a timer.

THIRD PRIORITY!

Ability 2: Ice Wave.

This ability isn't used that often but it's alright I guess. Once again though; it's not one of the main abilities that need to reworked.

Buff: More spammability and more utility (more freezing).

FIRST PRIORITY!

Ability 3: Snow Globe.

This is undoubtedly one of the biggest debates in Warframe. It really is. In all honesty, I think you give the invincibility back. He is the king of defence. He was not over-used but rather used appropriately and loved. Honesty, at higher wave defense, the lag you can get from having multiple globes up at once is ugh... Not good. Plus, because they Globes have the potential to shatter so quickly and there's no way to know whether you've got 2 or 5 up, it can be hard to manage re-casting and dealing damage when constantly worrying about your Globe.

Buff: Invincibility back. No doubt.

SECOND PRIORITY!

Ability 4: Avalanche.

Now I see the CC potential in this ability. As it's based off shear damage right now, it stands as not such a great ultimate, or not such an ultimate ultimate. The damage output isn't that great past level 30-40. What I would suggest is keeping the damage the same OR dropping the damage and giving a timed damage dealing upgrade while the enemies are frozen. Yes, frozen. He's based around Ice obviously, so the ability to freeze things is obvious.

Buff: 5-10 second freeze to all enemies in range, possible 50% bonus damage for weapons for less damage dealt by Avalanche.

Honestly, I only think Snow Globe and Avalanche should get buffs. Seeing as he is like a like an Ice Mage, he shouldn't be more about damage and more about defence and utility. He should have an impenetrable defence bubble based on a timer and a crowd control ability which freezes things. It kind of feels like Avalanche should be a hybrid of Freeze and Ice Wave; deals nice damage in order to weaken them (high level) and freezes them. I don't think the damage should be nerfed as you can still take this to Pluto and wreck some face.