Excal "fix" Not Good Enough

[Kalenath]

What is this "endgame" that you're talking about? 60+ minutes in survival on T4? lol.

 

Radial Javelin still wrecks everything up till maybe 40 minutes or so. So why do you think the only viable skill is Radial Blind?

 

"MUH NO SCALING"

 

Ok well it still wrecks everything outside of super scaled up enemies THAT DON'T EVEN HAVE BETTER LOOT TABLES.

 

Well, no one actually plays to have fun anymore.

 

Now, its all about 'leet this' and 'uber that' and 'omg I just did the other'.

 

I STILL have fun with Excalibur. Hell, I had fun with Excalibur while it was changed!

 

It was... OMG! *whispers* 'challenging...'

Edited September 12, 2014 by Kalenath

[Rorgal_Sina]

 

This is not good enough DE. You have reduced one of your frames to completely useless, unusable garbage-tier beneath any other frame.

Goodbye my treasured Excalibur Prime, we have had fun, but it is with absolute lament that I jettison you out of the airlock, casting the dead weight that you now are into the lonely abyss of space, never to be used again. 

RIP EXCALIBRO

 

Is this all u got? Is this all the freaking courage and power you have? And because something won't be the same anymore, you gonna run away? You deem it useless and leave? What kind of monsters are the Warframe Comunity???

 

Man up and face the freaking changes. Cus some people are, and they're gonna give suggestions to buff other Excal abilities. But not the majority of players are, and they'll gonna face the same things over again soon. 

 

 

I'll be over here, asking for DE to buff his casting speed and increase efficiency. And you guys? 

[Kalenath]

Is this all u got? Is this all the freaking courage and power you have? And because something won't be the same anymore, you gonna run away? You deem it useless and leave? What kind of monsters are the Warframe Comunity???

 

Man up and face the freaking changes. Cus some people are, and they're gonna give suggestions to buff other Excal abilities. But not the majority of players are, and they'll gonna face the same things over again soon. 

 

 

I'll be over here, asking for DE to buff his casting speed and increase efficiency. And you guys? 

 

Maybe a minor increase to armor. Maybe.

 

Definitely increase cast speed and efficiency.

 

Other than that? He is FUN. Agile, mobile and HOSTILE!

 

Super Jump with Heavy Impact! BOOM!

Edited September 12, 2014 by Kalenath

[B0N3M4N]

I think this post is out of the real motivation of WHY people should be angry about Excalibur in general, is not that much about Radial Blind but the real angry of the Excalibur players should be focused on his other skills. I mean, if Excalibur was a Warframe with atleast some good overall skills then the nerf of Radial Blind was going to be justified, but really right now it's like DE removed the only Weapon that maded this Warframe viable for the End-Game missions. So instead of blaming about how mucn they nerfed Radial Blind let's push DE to revamp this Warframe like they have done with Oberon, beacause as I can see playing this last right now it's pretty much overall useful and quite good for the endgame. DE have the skills for remake Excalibur good, let's just push them do to that as fast as possible.

[Alphafox]

Super jump is incredibly useful.....

Wall running is incredibly useful too,does't require a mod slot or energy. Ypu can't compare the 2 skills at all. Radial Blind was Excalibur survability skill.

It's like removing a ill patient air tank and asking them do still breath the same way they used to.

In "high level" gameplay only Radial Blind matter's

[Kalenath]

Wall running is incredibly useful too,does't require a mod slot or energy. Ypu can't compare the 2 skills at all. Radial Blind was Excalibur survability skill.

It's like removing a ill patient air tank and asking them do still breath the same way they used to.

In "high level" gameplay only Radial Blind matter's

 

'In high level gameplay'

 

Of course EVERY SINGLE PLAYER IN THIS GAME plays high level gameplay, so THAT is all that matters.

 

Good to know.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Kalenath

[.Zeva]

As I told a friend over Skype (A few minor changes so I don't receive any warnings)

 

Excal is outdated... 

Slash dash.... it's a copter that uses energy, is slower and only does slash dmg... I bet an un-modded r30 Nikana does more damage. Need I say more? 

Super jump... Are you kidding me? We can run walls and slide>vault... We parkour and he has a jump? At least booben's affect OTHERS as well as self. (For whatever comedic effect it might bring?)

Radial javelin... Just,  no... Only really works well when a Mag is there to magnetize so it doesn't freaking miss

Radial blind... nerfed to useless. Oh, there's a pebble on the ground in front of that Grineer? oops... guess my blind wasn't very effective. Wait, there's a 5 inch Latcher in front of that Seeker? Good thing the Grineer Seeker is 6 foot tall so it will blin.... he wasn't blinded? whaaat?

 

 

p.s. I didn't read all 4 other pages, so this might be a repeat.

Edited September 12, 2014 by .Zeva

[StinkyPygmy]

I don't even know why its still an issue and being talked about...

DE already confirmed that it was a buggy tweak to RB that was unintentionally released.

When its finished I believe the only difference is it wont work through walls and blind stuff two tiles away.

 

Ooohhh noooo, whatever will I do without the ability to blind grineer goons that aren't even a threat yet.

[SpadedTail]

So basically, his SlashDash is worthless, Radial Blind was outclassed by Chaos/Bastille/MPrime, Superjump was outclassed by Bounce/Tailwind and Javelin was outclassed by Avalanche/Bladestorm.  Essentially everything that Excalibur does, sucked compared to others. 

 

There is absolutely no justification for the nerf. People say that Radial Blind is OP as it is. Really? I have had people mass-leave my squad as soon as they realized i was bringing Excalibur to a void survival. Why don't i see people asking for Excaliburs for late game? Why is it that Recruiting chat is always asking for Nekros, Nova, Vauban? How on earth could he be OP, if RB's stun only lasts 4 seconds (not scaling with duration) while Bastille lasts way longer?

 

He was never OP, Excalibur was weak before and with this nerf he'll be a living joke. Can't believe I wasted the plat buying a slot, an immortal skin and a tato for him. 

[Kalenath]

I don't even know why its still an issue and being talked about...

DE already confirmed that it was a buggy tweak to RB that was unintentionally released.

When its finished I believe the only difference is it wont work through walls and blind stuff two tiles away.

 

Ooohhh noooo, whatever will I do without the ability to blind grineer goons that aren't even a threat yet.

 

In my own experience?

 

Because it is a broken and OP ability that people use to make high end content easy. Take away their 'I win' button and people scream.

 

Wouldn't want it to be a challenge after all.

 

 

He was never OP, Excalibur was weak before and with this nerf he'll be a living joke. Can't believe I wasted the plat buying a slot, an immortal skin and a tato for him. 

 

No, he wasn't OP. He was well balanced as a frame except for Radial Blind. Now, they want to try to make him viable with the later frames and people are screaming about losing their 'I win' button.

 

Funny. I kind of remember something VERY similar not that long ago. A whole BUNCH of screaming and rants about something called 'Iron Skin' being nerfed to the point of uselessness?

Edited September 12, 2014 by Kalenath

[Lorche]

For me, if RB is going to have a rework, DE also need to rework all of Excal's skills. And making sure that Mirage's Prism blinding also follow the same LoS rule. Because, it will just flat outrage people if Excal's RB follow Los, while Mirage's Prism after-effect don't.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Lorche

[StinkyPygmy]

In my own experience?

 

Because it is a broken and OP ability that people use to make high end content easy. Take away their 'I win' button and people scream.

 

Wouldn't want it to be a challenge after all.

The funny thing is after the change is shipped it is still pretty much an " I win button"  like most CC abilities.

ITs amusing watching so many forum goers ignore what DE has said about the changes and just rage about problems that don't even exist, though.

 

On a side note, I fully agree that excals other skills need a look at. slash dash is really only useful as a mobility skill.

Edited September 12, 2014 by StinkyPygmy

[SpadedTail]

The funny thing is after the change is shipped it is still pretty much an " I win button"  like most CC abilities.

ITs amusing watching so many forum goers ignore what DE has said about the changes and just rage about problems that don't even exist, though.

 

They didn't say that they gave up on the nerf, they said they're experimenting on it. This means that right now in DE's studio they're still testing the nerf before they release it. Don't pretend that just because it went from the live build to the dev testing build, it doesn't mean that it's gone forever. 

 

In my own experience?

 

Because it is a broken and OP ability that people use to make high end content easy. Take away their 'I win' button and people scream.

 

Wouldn't want it to be a challenge after all.

 

 

 

No, he wasn't OP. He was well balanced as a frame except for Radial Blind. Now, they want to try to make him viable with the later frames and people are screaming about losing their 'I win' button.

 

Funny. I kind of remember something VERY similar not that long ago. A whole BUNCH of screaming and rants about something called 'Iron Skin' being nerfed to the point of uselessness?

 

"i win button"

 

"excalibur"

 

Sure thing bro. His 4 second stun was suuuper OP and definitely a gamechanger in late game. Except it wasn't, when the gunners can still hear you while blinded and will oneshot you all the same. It was never a "insta-win button" unless the only thing you're doing is standing in the same place pressing 2 over and over to stunlock them like a goddamn living flashbulb. But they're still alive, and you don't have energy forever. 

 

I'm all for more challenge for the game, but hitting one of the most underpowered frames with a nerfhammer straight to the balls was totally uncalled for. 

[Kalenath]

They didn't say that they gave up on the nerf, they said they're experimenting on it. This means that right now in DE's studio they're still testing the nerf before they release it. Don't pretend that just because it went from the live build to the dev testing build, it doesn't mean that it's gone forever. 

 

 

"i win button"

 

"excalibur"

 

Sure thing bro. His 4 second stun was suuuper OP and definitely a gamechanger in late game. Except it wasn't, when the gunners can still hear you while blinded and will oneshot you all the same. It was never a "insta-win button" unless the only thing you're doing is standing in the same place pressing 2 over and over to stunlock them like a goddamn living flashbulb. But they're still alive, and you don't have energy forever. 

 

I'm all for more challenge for the game, but hitting one of the most underpowered frames with a nerfhammer straight to the balls was totally uncalled for. 

 

Two words...

 

Corrupted Mods.

 

I have seen an Excalibur stand in the middle of an Infested Defense and spam Radial Blind for 2 solid minutes. I counted. He didn't kill a single thing, just cced everything. Oh and dropped a team energy restore so he could keep doing it. His Kubrow did all the work.

 

Sure, the duration is only 4 seconds, UNLESS you mod it. Sure the range is limited, UNLESS you mod it. Sure, the energy will run out, UNLESS you mod it or use energy restores.

 

With mods, Radial Blind passes through walls, hits targets 2 tiles away from the current map and can stunlock them permanently. Nope. Nothing OP or broken about that at all.

 

Just ask anyone who does PvP against Excalibur. I don't. I know better.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Kalenath

[.Zeva]

The funny thing is after the change is shipped it is still pretty much an " I win button"  like most CC abilities.

ITs amusing watching so many forum goers ignore what DE has said about the changes and just rage about problems that don't even exist, though.

 

On a side note, I fully agree that excals other skills need a look at. slash dash is really only useful as a mobility skill.

 

Eh, I'm a Nyx, Trin, and Saryn user... I haven't used Excal in a year(for anything other than planets), but I still think all of his skills are weak compared to other frames. It's just funny how DE took a frame that had literally only one thing keeping people using him... and then changed it so people don't want anything to do with him. 

 

Great way to treat the poster child and Founder "gift". 

 

 

Changes I would like to see for Excal:

Slash Dash

I think adding some other effect to Slash Dash like a knockback similar to a charged bow shot and maybe a bleed would enhance it greatly and make it more utilized. Speeding it up to at least copter speed, if not faster since iirc you can't change direction during the skill. Removing the "stick on enemy" (might be fixed by the knockback change I mentioned).

Super Jump

Swap it with a different new skill jumping 3x higher at a slower rate is a terrible waste of a skill... You can wall run and jump then mid air slide to wherever you need to go... I mean... you can't even use this WHILE jumping to boost a jump. 

Javelin

Accuracy... much needed. Possibly have it automatically "trace" the nearest 5/8/10/15 targets (multiple hit to repeat target if less enemies than javelins). Punch through on Grineer riot shields.

Radial Blind

Honestly, I'm okay with the changes they have PLANNED, not the changes we SAW

 

 

 

 

my two pennies.

Edited September 12, 2014 by .Zeva

[SpadedTail]

Two words...

 

Corrupted Mods.

 

I have seen an Excalibur stand in the middle of an Infested Defense and spam Radial Blind for 2 solid minutes. I counted. He didn't kill a single thing, just cced everything. Oh and dropped a team energy restore so he could keep doing it. His Kubrow did all the work.

 

Sure, the duration is only 4 seconds, UNLESS you mod it. 

 

 

Not really. from the wiki:

 

• The total duration is affected by Power Duration, while the initial stun is not

  In other words, the stun will always be 4 seconds. 

 

Hits targets 2 tiles away

 

Not really. Max range is 58 meters. That's hardly 2 tiles away unless you're playing in tight Grineer Galleon rooms. If the range makes it so OP, reduce the range then. 

 

Can stunlock them permanently

 

If you're not doing anything else, then yes. Dropping two Bastilles is still better though, because it lasts much longer, removes them from cover and allows you to shoot while doing so (while non-stop blinding will keep interrupting your shots)

 

Just ask anyone who PvPs against Excalibur

 

In Dark Sector pvp, just copter away if you get blinded. 

[Ruh-Ruh]

Just ask anyone who does PvP against Excalibur. I don't. I know better.

Is that what this is about? You being unhappy with PvP balance and are happy to nerf PvE part of the game?

I have seen you hail the blind nerf as the great savior of warframe for days now, saying "It's not realistic" in a game with space ninjas and void powers, saying "It's too powerful" in a game where enemies scale endlessly, saying "PvP excal is not balanced", in a game that's not about PvP and that part should be balanced seperately to the rest of the game.

Why are you trying to hard? You are throwing every excuse that comes to your mind as to why he should be made into the worse frame in the game.

[(PSN)vrykolacas82]

Nice all the nerfs, it really helps the variety of frames ppl play (NOT) Rhino all the way nice and boring.

 

If you nerf blind for the realism of light being unable to penetrate walls (Which is ofc a true thing) you could consider that when you let the blinded enemies shoot at "noise" or "gunfire" from the Tenno, they ought to shoot at all the noise and gunfire sounds. INCLUDING the sounds coming from the their blinded comrades or the not blinded ones that just rushed into the room. 

[StinkyPygmy]

They didn't say that they gave up on the nerf, they said they're experimenting on it. This means that right now in DE's studio they're still testing the nerf before they release it. Don't pretend that just because it went from the live build to the dev testing build, it doesn't mean that it's gone forever. 

 

 

"i win button"

 

"excalibur"

 

Sure thing bro. His 4 second stun was suuuper OP and definitely a gamechanger in late game. Except it wasn't, when the gunners can still hear you while blinded and will oneshot you all the same. It was never a "insta-win button" unless the only thing you're doing is standing in the same place pressing 2 over and over to stunlock them like a goddamn living flashbulb. But they're still alive, and you don't have energy forever. 

 

I'm all for more challenge for the game, but hitting one of the most underpowered frames with a nerfhammer straight to the balls was totally uncalled for. 

Sigh* people really don't read do they?

The nerf isn't going away, I never said that. But you will notice that the proposed nerf is that RB will not effect enemies through walls (big woop) and will only effect mobs that are in the same room and aware of excal. (ie: not necessarily shooting at excal but have picked up on the fact that he is there). Most mobs that are anywhere near you are aware of you, so the proposed change isn't even much of a problem.

 

And as someone else mentioned, when modded for (like most abilities, what a surprise) especially with corrupted mods you can literally sit there and keep everything permanently stunlocked and blinded for daizzzz. I've seen plenty of excals in T4 only using RB every 15 seconds or so and it was more then effective.

 

DE definitely needs to work on excal and give him a general buff/rework to his other abilities seeing as they have decided to mess with him now of all times. BUt if the changes to RB work as DE mentioned then there is literally no reason to worry about it. RB will work almost exactly as before.

Getting sick of repeating myself here.

 

I'm not saying I agree with the change. I think there are a tonne of other things to be worrying about especially ion the topic of OP powers. But the point is if things work as mentioned then it wont kill RB.

Edited September 12, 2014 by StinkyPygmy

[LukeAura]

Not really. Max range is 58 meters. That's hardly 2 tiles away unless you're playing in tight Grineer Galleon rooms. If the range makes it so OP, reduce the range then. 

 

If you're not doing anything else, then yes. Dropping two Bastilles is still better though, because it lasts much longer, removes them from cover and allows you to shoot while doing so (while non-stop blinding will keep interrupting your shots)

The blinding effect basically shuts enemies down, they occasionally throw grenades while it is active, but that's it. I don't even see them shoot most of the time. 

The blind effect also makes them wander aimlessly, out of cover. 15 seconds of blind, plus 4 of initial stun. Base 25 meters radius where as Vaubans Bastille is less than half the initial size and is negatively affected by Overextended in terms of cc power, it also costs 25 more energy for 4 seconds less CC time as well, and Radial Blind has 4 guaranteed seconds of CC, which isn't affected by FE, so it's more resistant to duration loss.  

Radial Blind is so much easier to mod with corrupted mods and already starts at a better level of power, it just doesn't hold enemies stock still, but they are basically harmless. 

 

[Estoc]

'In high level gameplay'

 

Of course EVERY SINGLE PLAYER IN THIS GAME plays high level gameplay, so THAT is all that matters.

 

Good to know.

Absolutely absurd. So you think it is okay to completely remove his viability as an endgame frame because low tier players can still enjoy killing level ten lancers with slash dash? Ridiculous that you would call unfairness then respond with something completely exclusionary. Preposterous.

[LukeAura]

Absolutely absurd. So you think it is okay to completely remove his viability as an endgame frame because low tier players can still enjoy killing level ten lancers with slash dash? Ridiculous that you would call unfairness then respond with something completely exclusionary. Preposterous.

"Endgame is ethereal and hand waivy. It is something to do after you're done levelling things." ~ Paraphrase of Steve. 

Infinite and higher end scaling is not endgame. LoS Radial Blind would still function well in T4 content before the point it becomes impossible to take even a single hit to shields, and Excalibur's other abilities have long been in need of a buff. 

[Quill.Onkko]

How do you think Slash Dash should be revised?

when u have ur melee weapon equiped it will be used as utility to close in on ur enemy to perform the combos

when u have ur main or secondary make it a 2 staged ability:(first stage) its like the normal slash dash but its damage is depends on ur melee weapon damage (second stage) excalibur spins around himself [much like the loki's radial disarm animation] and does AoE damage based on his overall ability strength

 

How do you think Super Jump should be revised?

remove it completely we all know warframe levels have no high ceilings zypher is only playable on earth :P and a little on phobos

 

How do you think Radial Javelin should be revised?

make it a radial ability (globe) and make it pin enemies to walls

affected by ( duration[more time enemies are pinned on walls] // range // strength )

[Kalenath]

Absolutely absurd. So you think it is okay to completely remove his viability as an endgame frame because low tier players can still enjoy killing level ten lancers with slash dash? Ridiculous that you would call unfairness then respond with something completely exclusionary. Preposterous.

 

AND YOU want him to be unbeatable for high end gameplay and broken PVP. I get it.

 

For the RECORD:

 

I don't want it REMOVED, I want it FIXED.

 

But then again, if it is, how will you abuse the mechanic? And THAT is what this is about. Not his viability. Exploiting a broken mechanic.

 

Radial Blind as it is allows for easy gameplay when you can stunlock ANYTHING so it CANNOT be fixed or everything about the Excalibur warframe is going to SUCK.

 

OMG this is familiar... Iron Skin anyone?

Edited September 13, 2014 by Kalenath

[Archaic_]

I don't know how anyone could think that Radial Blind was balanced, it made enemies completely useless even with the little AI buff (sound draws attention to blinded enemies). People tend to forget that the game is suppose to get difficult and not a cake walk with just a click of a button. Where is the fun in pressing 2 and blasting enemies away with ease. Maxed range mods and high power effienciency and you have a GAMEBREAKING ability! At least now there is logic behind it. May the nerf remain and perhaps upcoming buff...rise!

 

TLDR : RB was stupidly strong and now it's much better.

 

Also, sorry if this post sounds repetitive as many others have probably typed the same/similar thing but I feel like this is a step in the right direction.