Every Warframe Should Have A Defensive/supportive Ability

[Aktriaz]

What the goal of this is, is to come up with or change an ability to somehow augment a warframes survival. It's the reason why so many people use warframes like Rhino, Valkyr, and Loki, because they have great abilities that can help them survive. You don't need to toss around reworks, just give every warframe some defensive utility, or survivability. Think about it; almost all the most used warframes have an ability that augments their survival.

 

I will be going through the warframes that I have personally used, but feel free to mention and/or suggest a warframe you think should be on the list.

 

So far, I can only think of two warframes that need some work in the defensive department. (I've used both)

 

Ember:

 

One word; Overheat.

 

Seriously. Accelerant is redundant. It's an ability that augments her other abilities. I actually saw a good amount of people using Ember before it was changed to Accelerant. If bringing back Overheat will make Ember viable again, then why the hell not? It could be brought back, shinier and with some different uses or effects, but what she needs is that damage reduction.

 

--------------

 

Banshee:

 

So, I've been exploring possibilities for builds besides just maxing Sonar or building Sound Quake, and I've found Silence/Melee fairly interesting, but still a bit lackluster.

 

First off, Silence is VERY expensive for what it does, and building power efficiency will lose you precious duration, building range makes it harder to close the gap on stunned enemies, and strength does nothing good, making it very hard to maximize efficiently. While the initial stagger is useful, and does sometimes give stealth bonus damage, it's not quite enough.

 

What I would like to suggest for this ability, is give it some extra effect to enemies within it's radius. Some examples include:

 

-Slowing enemies down within the radius.

 

-Make enemies deal less damage while in the radius.

 

-Lower enemy reaction time (may take a bit of AI work...)

 

-(extra effect) Counters Eximus auras. Made a thread around this, but sadly no one cares about Banshee. :(

 

-------

 

Go ahead and suggest a warframe that maybe could use some defensive utility, and I'll look up the stats, or just suggest a new ability.

[xventriloquist]

I think is better to have frames totally supportive and frames totally offensive, i mean, we need to make a team conformed for some supportive and some offensive player, cause everyone have a different style of game. A simple thought.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Sullivan24

[Malikon]

I would argue that Ember would benefit more from a speed increase and a damage mitigator (like Turbulence on Zephyr, or something to knock down all mobs within X meters of her) more than a straight out damage reduction ability.  Base damage reduction is boring.  :)

[Kthal]

Accelerant is probably Ember's best ability, and she is meant to be a 'glass-cannon', with high damage and low survivability.

 

The increased reaction time and anti-eximus effects would be nice, but the first two seem completely out of character.

 

 

Frames are meant to be varied, some are all aggressive, some all defensive. Even within those categorise there is some variety, Zephyr's Turbulence can be modded to be a powerful selfish ability, or a slightly less powerful area survivability boost.

 

Variety is a good thing. If you personally don't like playing as a frame, then just don't (past 30).

[X3Evanescence]

Fire Blast is... Meh.

Just turn it into the AOE knock back like the ones used by Eximus units, it gives valuable crowd control and can be a lifesaver when swarmed by Infested and stuff.

That could be a good defensive skill for Ember who is greatly lacking in crowd control.

Overheat is nice.

[Malikon]

Overheat started out bad (yay +%age of armor), then became boring (90% damage reduction).  Accelerant is much nicer.  I'd like to see Fireblast and WoF gain some utility like the eximus knockback on fireblast and a noticable speed boost on WoF rather than anything purely defensive be added for her.

[Zoid25]

Im going to have to respectfully disagree. Each frame has a different role or a different play style, and of course each play style has different synergies. If we align them all power wise then that might tip the synergy of the frames to the point where it really doesnt matter what frame you choose, they all do the same thing. Plus, the whole point of warframe is to play with team mates in a squad to complete a mission, not do it all yourself. You are supposed to need friends to help in order to complete the game. My last counterpoint is that then you limit the creativity of the devs/design council when coming up with the new warframes:

 

1 Defensive

1 Offensive

1 Whatever (probably mobility of some sort)

1 Nuke

 

Where's the fun in that? Just some food for thought.

[HollowFrame]

Different Warframes have different roles to play. Not everyone loves being the jack of all trades. Their differences makes them fun. So, no offense, but I don't like your idea. 

[(PSN)XxKingsteel86xX]

Valkyr vs Rhino

[7grims]

I like accelarant, it provokes a small stun on enemies, very useful for reloading ur gun, run if taking too much damage, or even as a cc if ur surrounded.

 

So talking of utility, yap, accelarant is very useful, better then being another damage ability.

It is already pretty useful, only ppl don't know how to use it properly, so they don't take advantage of a good abilities.

Edited September 16, 2014 by 7grims

[SergeiTheBeast]

Bring back overheat.

[Azawarau]

>Every frame

 

>Names only two

 

Well this thread isnt shallow...

 

Well since the topic is here

 

Ember has accelerant

 

Use it

 

Banshee has 4 CCs and a huge damage buff

 

Use them

 

Silence has some of the most amazing frame powr and weapon synergy in the game if you use it correctly

 

Sonar can easily rip through hoardes of enemies with piercing mods thanks to the obscene power boost

 

Push is just long and hard

 

Everything goes down fast

 

And of course soundquake

 

If you cant fly you cant move , bosses aside

 

How much more survivability do you need than that?

 

Try to adapt more before suggesting that a frame isnt good enough

[Epicagemo]

I will support you that ember needs some defensive abilities, but ONLY because she DOESN'T DO ENOUGH DAMAGE.

Accelerant works fine but fire damage kind of scales with armor(I guess its implied "...effective against light armored units")... A heavy gunner takes 200-300ish against WOF with maxed Intensify, and Accel only increases it-like what? 200-300 extra damage? WTH kind of damage is that?

 

Probably the best idea I have come up with is combine Fire blast with Accelerant (you know the similar stun and all...)

And bring back Overheat.

[Aktriaz]

>Every frame

 

>Names only two

 

Well this thread isnt shallow...

 

Well since the topic is here

 

Ember has accelerant

 

Use it

 

Banshee has 4 CCs and a huge damage buff

 

Use them

 

Silence has some of the most amazing frame powr and weapon synergy in the game if you use it correctly

 

Sonar can easily rip through hoardes of enemies with piercing mods thanks to the obscene power boost

 

Push is just long and hard

 

Everything goes down fast

 

And of course soundquake

 

If you cant fly you cant move , bosses aside

 

How much more survivability do you need than that?

 

Try to adapt more before suggesting that a frame isnt good enough

The only reason I only suggested 2 is because those are the only ones I've had first hand experience with, and I'm not going to suggest for ones I haven't. Hell, I even said that you could suggest a warframe.

 

I said "every warframe should have a defensive/supportive ability" because that is my opinion. I'm not going to make assumptions beyond my own experience.

 

As Banshee as my main and most used, and especially since I play solo almost exclusively, I can safely say she has very low survivability. Her abilities are hard to mod for, all of them trading off others. "Push" (aka Sonic Boom) is just a backwards and worse version of Mag's pull. Silence is almost good, the stagger gives you time to take out enemies, but only so much. After that, it's useless (at least in solo). I never said Sonar is bad. Sound Quake is a boring ability, only really useful in co-op. It is a grade-A panic button, even though it's one of the worse ones.

 

Accelerant is only used as a AoE stun, as even the damage boost falls off on her abilities very soon. You could add strength mods, but then they become very costly and you might as well just use your gun.

 

The thing is, the only ability I found useful on Ember was Accelerant. Do you know what happens to warframes when they are used for just one ability? Look at Frost. Formally known as "The guy who uses Snow Globe".

 

Literally every other warframe has an ability to augment their survival. Every single one. Name one, I dare you.

I bet if DE did a survey to see which are the least used warframe post U13 or further, Banshee and Ember would be at the top.

[Azawarau]

The only reason I only suggested 2 is because those are the only ones I've had first hand experience with, and I'm not going to suggest for ones I haven't. Hell, I even said that you could suggest a warframe.

 

I said "every warframe should have a defensive/supportive ability" because that is my opinion. I'm not going to make assumptions beyond my own experience.

 

As Banshee as my main and most used, and especially since I play solo almost exclusively, I can safely say she has very low survivability. Her abilities are hard to mod for, all of them trading off others. "Push" (aka Sonic Boom) is just a backwards and worse version of Mag's pull. Silence is almost good, the stagger gives you time to take out enemies, but only so much. After that, it's useless (at least in solo). I never said Sonar is bad. Sound Quake is a boring ability, only really useful in co-op. It is a grade-A panic button, even though it's one of the worse ones.

 

Accelerant is only used as a AoE stun, as even the damage boost falls off on her abilities very soon. You could add strength mods, but then they become very costly and you might as well just use your gun.

 

The thing is, the only ability I found useful on Ember was Accelerant. Do you know what happens to warframes when they are used for just one ability? Look at Frost. Formally known as "The guy who uses Snow Globe".

 

Literally every other warframe has an ability to augment their survival. Every single one. Name one, I dare you.

I bet if DE did a survey to see which are the least used warframe post U13 or further, Banshee and Ember would be at the top.

She has accelerant and fireball that are extremely useful together and accelerant that adds 5x dmg when modded up for power STR

 

That scales well into the intended level range

 

WoF does as well but not as much as it should and especially not for its cost

 

As for banshee

 

Im deadset that youre doing it wrong if you really believe push is bad

 

Silence is trickier to work with but more rewarding than near every stun ability in the game

 

Ever take advantage of AoE at a long distance with banshee?

 

The frame and weapon synergy is ridiculous with silence

 

Add a sonar to make it just that much better

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

You run the risk of making all the frames seem too similar. I would like Ember to be retuned, but that retuning would be mostly for additional damage/damage scaling/enemy buff ignorance. I want Ember to be that superpowerful caster frame, not a defensive one. One of the things that keeps me playing this game is the variation in frames. Without that, I don't know that I would continue to play.

[Azawarau]

You run the risk of making all the frames seem too similar. I would like Ember to be retuned, but that retuning would be mostly for additional damage/damage scaling/enemy buff ignorance. I want Ember to be that superpowerful caster frame, not a defensive one. One of the things that keeps me playing this game is the variation in frames. Without that, I don't know that I would continue to play.

Wii :D?

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Wii :D?

 

Should've made my account (Wii)(360)(N64) just for you haha

[Azawarau]

Should've made my account (Wii)(360)(N64) just for you haha

Id love that

 

Ember is in a good spot now i think too

 

But she does have some rough edges to work out

 

Accelerant definitely isnt her issue though

[Aktriaz]

She has accelerant and fireball that are extremely useful together and accelerant that adds 5x dmg when modded up for power STR

 

That scales well into the intended level range

 

WoF does as well but not as much as it should and especially not for its cost

 

As for banshee

 

Im deadset that youre doing it wrong if you really believe push is bad

 

Silence is trickier to work with but more rewarding than near every stun ability in the game

 

Ever take advantage of AoE at a long distance with banshee?

 

The frame and weapon synergy is ridiculous with silence

 

Add a sonar to make it just that much better

I never said Sonic Boom was bad, just that Pull does the same thing better, doing more damage and has more range. Plus Pull can potentially throw enemies across then map, a feat Sonic Boom can only dream of. Not to mention trying to maximize Sonic Boom makes every other one of her abilities worse. Up range and efficiency?? Say goodbye to your damage and duration for silence, sonar and sound quake.

 

Silence is good, I wont deny this, definitely a step up from what it was before, but I feel like it could be doing more for it's cost, especially since it suffers from a max-power efficiency build, and even duration.

 

This is just my opinion. Don't like it; leave. if you think it'll hurt your experience playing Banshee, explain why.

 

As for Ember, I just think it's redundant for an ability to be cast just so another can be used efficiently. Warframe seems to fast-paced for something so clunky. Just buff her other abilities to make them usable on their own.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Actriaz

[Rekkou]

Why forcing everything to be maxed? all max ranked skills have good base duration and range. Regular buff mod alone will give good enough buff, there's no need at all to push one skill and weaken the other.

 

This is probably the source of your problem with your Banshee. You're forcing to use maxed everything and severely reducing the effectiveness of your Banshee as a whole.

[Azawarau]

Why forcing everything to be maxed? all max ranked skills have good base duration and range. Regular buff mod alone will give good enough buff, there's no need at all to push one skill and weaken the other.

 

This is probably the source of your problem with your Banshee. You're forcing to use maxed everything and severely reducing the effectiveness of your Banshee as a whole.

I have 2 builds

 

One is max utility with max range and near max efficiency (have been too busy to forma banshee for it)

 

And the other is focused on raw power

 

Both are viable on all tiers of play though the power one is more end game (hard to sustain but so worth it)

[fatpig84]

Accelerant is what I specced. 

Leave Accelerant well alone and learn to live without overheat.

 

Otherwise remove fireblast.

[kennytheone]

I believe it should stay the same as far as abilities for Warframes as there are now. Some are made to do tons of damage, while others are made to defend other players. It's what makes the Warfames all different and makes the apply to different people and game situations.

[Inmemoratus]

I took the plunge with Banshee and maxed power efficiency. I was really surprised with the results. The loss of duration does not matter. You just recast your abilities when needed. You never run out of energy. The stun effects are not affected by duration so it doesn't matter at all.

 

Technically I only have 70% efficiency (Fleeting Expertise + Arcane Chorus Helmet) but that 5% I could have doesn't matter and isn't worth the slot. I don't run out of energy, period.

 

Oh also put Stretch on her, it's really important.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Inmemoratus